Cross River Rail Project

Stillwater · February 25, 2017, 18:20:31 PM

The documentation for this (yet again) revised project is governed by a 'draft outline environmental management plan'. A Draft Outline of a Possible Environmental Management Plan, should the project get the nod from the Coordinator-General for another run up the flagpole to see whether the feds salute it. Revised estimated cost: $5.4m.

ozbob · February 25, 2017, 18:35:13 PM

There has been a small amount of media re this CRR development re project changes and public consultation but nothing direct from Government or CRR.

Might be something in MSM tomorrow?

I only found the information on the Web because I went looking.

No statement from Government either.

Stillwater · February 25, 2017, 20:00:40 PM

The changes mean that, again, we have a Queensland Government peddling a half-arsed project as being 'construction ready', if only the feds would fund it. And we have the feds refusing to fund it because it is an ill-developed, incomplete project. The old Mexican stand-off yet again. Meanwhile, fully developed projects in other states get the moolah. When will this lot learn?

Report from the Brisbane Times, 24 November 2016:

Meanwhile, a parliamentary committee delivered its report on a bill to establish a Cross River Rail Delivery Authority on Thursday.

The government members of the committee supported the establishment of the Cross River Rail delivery authority but the non-government members did not support it.

In a statement of reservation, LNP MPs Mark Robinson and Ann Leahy said they were concerned the business case had not been released, an "interventionist approach to planning" and not enough detail about how the project would be funded.

They also said the bill was rushed through the committee process.

But Mr Bailey criticised the LNP for their opposition to the Cross River Rail Delivery Authority Bill.

"This is why they're called mediocre both here and in Canberra," Mr Bailey said.

"We are working with both their federal government and Brisbane City Council counterparts to progress Cross River Rail and they are still crying wolf and talking down this vital city building project."

Will there be a revised business case for this revised project? Will it go to IA for evaluation? Will it be released publicly?

#Metro · February 25, 2017, 20:17:33 PM

A project that does not have funds is no more construction ready than a project without shovels.

Stillwater · February 25, 2017, 23:15:57 PM

Each of the new CRR plans Ozbob has posted in this thread is marked 'not for construction' in red letters on each page. There is only a Proposed Outline EIS draft for a re-scaled project.

What is going on? Is the Qld Govt serious about this new proposal?

Does this have the same status as the 'Cleveland Solution'. A set of plans to take to the election with no intention of building anything? The public is owed an explanation as to the status of this project. No media statement is even more intriguing.

Golliwog · February 26, 2017, 01:10:22 AM

Any plans produced that aren't actually for construction will be marked "Not for construction" - pretty much a fact now due to the litigious nature of people if they were provided a set of plans that were meant simply for them to review before a final set were produced for construction to proceed with all the appropriate sign-offs.

Isn't this a good thing? They are basically submitting a change request to continue using the existing approved EIS, just with changes as outlined in the report? I.e. the majority of the previously submitted EIS still stands, here are some changes due to the revised scope/changed alignment/changed station locations.

ozbob · February 26, 2017, 02:34:25 AM

ozbob · February 26, 2017, 03:04:57 AM

Sent to all outlets:

26th February 2017

CRR Project Changes now available

Good Morning,

Without much obvious publicity the Cross River Rail (CRR) web site has been updated.

Importantly CRR Project Changes are now available at http://www.statedevelopment.qld.gov.au/assessments-and-approvals/cross-river-rail-project.html

Public consultation on project change application runs from 25 February 2017 to 27 March 2017

There are a lot of documents ( see below) .

Our members have started looking at the information and we will be asking questions and submitting comment in due course.

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

======================================

[ Attached: https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=2034.msg188546#msg188546 ]

ozbob · February 26, 2017, 03:08:02 AM

Latest media: CRR Project Changes now available
> https://t.co/BIE9Fylvte #qldpol #auspol pic.twitter.com/4kaPWowqra
— Robert Dow (@Robert_Dow) February 25, 2017

ozbob · February 26, 2017, 07:13:44 AM

Couriermail --> Transport Minister Jackie Trad seeks public input to revised Cross River Rail proposal that cuts costs

QuotePART of Brisbane's Roma Street Transit Centre would be demolished and a Myer Centre car park exit relocated under the revised Cross River Rail project.

A "Request for Change of Proposal" outlining the alterations has been released by the Co-ordinator-General's office for online public consultation.

Deputy Premier and Transport Minister Jackie Trad has urged the public to make a submission online or attend a public forum before the Co-ordinator-General assesses the project she described as critical to the future of southeast Queensland.

The Government hopes to "get shovels in the ground" this year.

"The revised alignment impacts on fewer properties and costs significantly less," Ms Trad said.

Under the changes, the proposed station at Albert St would move further to the northwest to a location beneath Albert St between Margaret St and Elizabeth St.

The changed location of the Albert Street Station would tie in with the Brisbane City Council's proposal to enhance pedestrian access to Albert St. It would also benefit from the alternate arrangements for the southern exit of the Myer centre car park.

Under the new arrangements the exit could be relocated to Charlotte St between Albert St and George St.

The Transit Centre (west) would also be demolished to accommodate the relocation of Roma Street Station to the site of the existing Brisbane Transit Centre West Tower.

The long-distance coach terminal would be moved and the BTC car park demolished. The new alignment reduces the project's cost from more than $8 billion to $5.4 billion.

Stillwater · February 26, 2017, 10:03:07 AM

The revised CRR project is being touted as 'the best plan'. In the context of infrastructure planning, 'best' is interchangeable with 'cheapest' and does not always equate to best, or even adequate. There are two bob watches with bamboo springs and then there is Rolex and Tag Heur. The issue is, if this is a better proposal, why wasn't it the proposal put forward to IA for evaluation?

It would appear that major infrastructure projects in Queensland (SCL is another case in point) are redone and revised constantly, with consultants and public servants working away in back rooms re-scoping and replanning while the Minister is out front saying that the project is 'shovel ready'. At the time the minister makes that statement, the project that is in the public arena is not the project that will be delivered ultimately. This doesn't happen in other states.

As soon as the feds, or others, get wind that the project they thought they were funding has changed, the project goes to the back of the queue. Queensland projects are forever stuck at the back of the queue, and it is not the fault of others, as state governments would have us believe, but their own incompetence in getting a project right first time.

Queensland rushes in all to soon to stitch up the money, accompanied by a lot of bluff and bluster, without closing off on the planning and design first. Too much emphasis is placed on the illusion of the project (as evidenced by glossy brochures and drive-throughs) rather than the substance.

ozbob · February 26, 2017, 10:38:57 AM

" The Government hopes to "get shovels in the ground" this year. "

I particularly like the last part where the shovels are smartly raised to throw the dirt into the air!

ozbob · February 26, 2017, 13:57:49 PM

http://www.timnicholls.com.au/trad-conning-south-east-queenslanders-cross-river-rail/

Opposition Media Release

Trad conning South-East Queenslanders over Cross River Rail

Jackie Trad's Cross River Rail project hopelessly stalled and her claim it will cost Queenslanders less is simply a con
Labor has no capacity to fund its $15bn pipe dream except to slug hard working Queenslanders with secret taxes
Annastacia Palaszczuk and Jackie Trad couldn't deliver the mail let alone the infrastructure Queensland needs

Annastacia Palaszczuk and Jackie Trad's claim Brisbane's Cross River Rail project is "shovel ready" is nothing but one big con.

Deputy LNP Leader and Shadow Infrastructure Minister Deb Frecklington said Cross River Rail had become hopelessly stalled.

"Labor has bungled the Cross River Rail project from the start," Ms Frecklington said.

"Honestly, both Annastacia Palaszczuk and Jackie Trad couldn't deliver the mail let alone the infrastructure Queensland needs.

"Quasi-Labor leader Jackie Trad has had more than two years to get her pet project off the ground but she has failed dismally at every hurdle.

"There is a secret business case, deadlines have been missed time and time again and Labor certainly has no money for this project.

"The only thing Jackie Trad has done so far is to create a bureaucratic behemoth in the way of a so-called delivery authority so highly-paid bureaucrats can sit around and talk about the project."

Ms Frecklington said the only plan Jackie Trad had for Cross River Rail was to slug Queenslanders with secret taxes to raise billions of dollars to attempt to fund her shiny new tunnel.

"Jackie Trad has missed deadline after deadline when it comes to this project," she said.

"Now she is claiming the latest reincarnation over the project's design will cost Queenslanders less money.

"Don't be fooled – when Labor says something is going to cost less you can bet your bottom dollar there will be a massive blow out in costs.

"In the latest reincarnation of the project, Jackie Trad embarrassingly had to move the proposed Albert Street station because she had no idea the first one would have been subjected to flooding.

"Jackie Trad's pie-in-the-sky Cross River Rail has been bungle after bungle."

verbatim9 · February 26, 2017, 14:02:35 PM

This reminds me of the proposed unfinished Northern and Eastern Busways. Just maps and alignments to have a look at only, but never come into fruition.

ozbob · February 26, 2017, 14:21:56 PM

It does seem that unless this project is actually started before #qldvotes, and should the LNP resume State Government then CRR is probably not going to get up. The LNP do not appear to be strong supporters at the State Level, although the blue BCC does.

In a perverse way it would be kind of funny to see the inner bus system wrecked and everyone having to transfer on to a metro.

Most dopey Brisbanites will only realise the con when their direct bus ride stops, and OMG

they have to transfer!

You make your bed Brisbane, looks like you are going to lie in it .. at which point it will be #FleeQLD

BrizCommuter · February 26, 2017, 14:24:35 PM

Quote from: ozbob on February 26, 2017, 13:57:49 PM
http://www.timnicholls.com.au/trad-conning-south-east-queenslanders-cross-river-rail/

Opposition Media Release

Trad conning South-East Queenslanders over Cross River Rail

Jackie Trad's Cross River Rail project hopelessly stalled and her claim it will cost Queenslanders less is simply a con
Labor has no capacity to fund its $15bn pipe dream except to slug hard working Queenslanders with secret taxes
Annastacia Palaszczuk and Jackie Trad couldn't deliver the mail let alone the infrastructure Queensland needs
Annastacia Palaszczuk and Jackie Trad's claim Brisbane's Cross River Rail project is "shovel ready" is nothing but one big con.

Deputy LNP Leader and Shadow Infrastructure Minister Deb Frecklington said Cross River Rail had become hopelessly stalled.

"Labor has bungled the Cross River Rail project from the start," Ms Frecklington said.

"Honestly, both Annastacia Palaszczuk and Jackie Trad couldn't deliver the mail let alone the infrastructure Queensland needs.

"Quasi-Labor leader Jackie Trad has had more than two years to get her pet project off the ground but she has failed dismally at every hurdle.

"There is a secret business case, deadlines have been missed time and time again and Labor certainly has no money for this project.

"The only thing Jackie Trad has done so far is to create a bureaucratic behemoth in the way of a so-called delivery authority so highly-paid bureaucrats can sit around and talk about the project."

Ms Frecklington said the only plan Jackie Trad had for Cross River Rail was to slug Queenslanders with secret taxes to raise billions of dollars to attempt to fund her shiny new tunnel.

"Jackie Trad has missed deadline after deadline when it comes to this project," she said.

"Now she is claiming the latest reincarnation over the project's design will cost Queenslanders less money.

"Don't be fooled – when Labor says something is going to cost less you can bet your bottom dollar there will be a massive blow out in costs.

"In the latest reincarnation of the project, Jackie Trad embarrassingly had to move the proposed Albert Street station because she had no idea the first one would have been subjected to flooding.

"Jackie Trad's pie-in-the-sky Cross River Rail has been bungle after bungle."

So what is Tim Nicholl's plan to meet SE Queensland's growing population? Build more roads? Do nothing? QLD state politics is pathetic.

BTW - I'm still writing the blog post. In the mean time - 28tph on one track between Northgate and Mayne? CRR project must be dreaming!

ozbob · February 26, 2017, 14:31:32 PM

^ I hope the LNP reincarnate the ' Cleveland Solution '. Trams trundling along in the Brisbane River has always appealed to me ..

Seriously, not much hope is there?

BrizCommuter · February 26, 2017, 14:47:10 PM

Quote from: ozbob on February 26, 2017, 14:31:32 PM
^ I hope the LNP reincarnate the ' Cleveland Solution '. Trams trundling along in the Brisbane River has always appealed to me ..

Seriously, not much hope is there?

Yes, trams going through Coorparoo and Alderley level crossings every 2 minutes (in each direction) will be highly entertaining.

ozbob · February 26, 2017, 15:36:38 PM

26th February 2017

Media Release
Deputy Premier, Minister for Transport and Minister for Infrastructure and Planning
The Honourable Jackie Trad

Consultation open on Cross River Rail

Queensland's number one infrastructure project, Cross River Rail, is well on its way with public consultation beginning on the new alignment.

Deputy Premier, Minister for Transport and Minister for Infrastructure and Planning Jackie Trad said the $5.4 billion Cross River Rail project was critical to the future of South East Queensland.

"Cross River Rail means better public transport and more jobs right across the South East Queensland network," Ms Trad said.
"However you choose to travel around South East Queensland, Cross River Rail will get you there faster.
"It's a once in a generation city-shaping project that will get commuters home faster and create thousands of jobs.
"During construction, Cross River Rail will support more than 1,540 jobs each year and with an anticipated construction timeframe of five years, that's more than 7,700 jobs for Queenslanders.

"The Palaszczuk Government remains absolutely committed to delivering this project and is powering forward to make sure we get shovels in the ground this year."

Ms Trad said the project had been refined, with the public now able to make submissions before it is evaluated by the Co-ordinator General.

"The revised alignment impacts on fewer properties and costs significantly less," Ms Trad said.

"The design changes reflect further technical and environmental investigations undertaken since the last alignment was approved in 2012, as well as feedback from the community and stakeholders.

"We want to make sure that everyone has the opportunity to have their say on this important project so we are encouraging people to come along to a public session or make a submission online by 27 March."

Cross River Rail will allow the rail network to expand, offering faster travel times across South East Queensland:

• There will be four new underground stations at Boggo Road, Woolloongabba, Albert Street and Roma Street and two upgraded stations at Dutton Park and the Exhibition Showgrounds.
• Commuters will save up to 15 minutes if travelling from southern stations such as Beenleigh
• Commuters will save up to eight minutes if travelling from northern stations such as Petrie
• Commuters will save up to six minutes if travelling from western stations such as Ipswich
• Commuters will save up to 14 minutes if travelling from eastern stations such as Cleveland

Community information sessions will be held:
• Tuesday 14 March, The Cube, QUT Gardens Point, 5 pm - 9 pm
• Thursday 16 March, The Old Museum, 480 Gregory Terrace, Bowen Hills, 10 am - 2 pm
• Saturday 18 March, Boggo Road Gaol, 21 Boggo Road, Dutton Park, 10am - 2 pm

For more information on public consultation or to make a submission head to: www.dsd.qld.gov.au/crr

ENDS

Stillwater · February 26, 2017, 15:38:04 PM

LNP accuses ALP of playing politics over CRR by .... playing politics itself. Or playing the man/Minister. As BrizCommuter correctly points out, what is the LNP solution? No wonder that people, disillusioned by the major parties, are flocking to One Nation.

Ken Henry, a member of the IA Board, nailed it when in an address to CEDA, said none of the major parties had adopted a bipartisan stance on any of the proposed major infrastructure projects currently on the table. The parties are so pre-occupied with scuttling their opponent's pet project that they insult taxpayers and commuters and industry that suffer because it hasn't been built.

Infrastructure Partnerships Australia (a private industry lobby group) says investment in major infrastructure in Queensland is half that of NSW, despite the massive growth our state is experiencing.

IPA CEO, Brendan Lyon, is quoted as saying this (Sunday-Mail): "Queensland has lots of plans, but no dollars to pay for them and, as the community knows, political visions that are not backed with money are really just hallucinations."

Usually, state Labor's thinking involves holding out the plans in order to gain the votes, but expecting that the tab will be picked up by someone else -- the private sector, councils, the federal government. It is a fool's paradise.

Jackie Trad should ban green cordial from the Ministerial staff kitchen.

Brisbane Times story: The cost of doing nothing on CRR

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/seq-rail-commuters-will-double-in-10-years-government-figures-20170226-guljoo.html

ozbob · February 26, 2017, 15:47:26 PM

Brisbanetimes --> SEQ rail commuters will double in 10 years: Government figures

QuoteThe number of rail passengers in south-east Queensland will more than double in 10 years, new figures within the Palaszczuk Government's latest Cross River Rail study shows.

The massive increase is triggered by the opening of the new Moreton Bay Rail Link, inner-city jobs growth, the connection of the Gold Coast light rail to the main Brisbane-Gold Coast rail line in 2018, greater access and extra passengers on Queensland's 75 new trains.

Artists impression of a prosed new entrance to Roma Street station for the yet-to-be funded Cross River Rail Mark 3. Photo: supplied

The figures on page 20 of the report which was quietly released on Sunday shows rail commuters doubling from 2015 to 2026.

SEQ rail commuters

2015: 177,200 average daily rail users;
2026: 368,800 average daily rail users;
2036: 511,700 average daily rail users.

The report says "Based on these demand forecasts, the existing capacity of some parts of the inner-city rail network will be exceeded by 2021 and progressively worsen. "

"Without additional infrastructure through the inner-city, it would not be possible to service growth in demand, nor could the rail network expand into new growth areas."

The figures are included in volume one of a complex series of documents which are part of the Palaszczuk Government's final steps towards putting a business case to the federal government for their version – mark 3 – of Brisbane's underground rail project.

All political parties acknowledge the project is necessary – albeit while offering differing ways of dealing with the issue - because Brisbane only has one rail "north-south" rail bridge across the Brisbane River. The issue has been pressing since 2005.

Brisbane has now major population growth on its northern (around North Lakes) and southern edges (Beenleigh to the Gold Coast).

The documents quietly made public on Sunday give the public and business community only one month to make comments on the differences between the business case for the 2010-11 Cross River Rail project and the 2015-16 model.

Those comments will be factored in to the final business case which will go to the Turnbull federal government, which will not "fully consider" the project until an updated business case is submitted from the Queensland Government.
10 major changes between 2010 and 2016-17 Cross River Rail

parts of Roma Street Transit Centre will be demolished;
the underground Albert Street train station will go closer to the CBD heart to avoid flooding, problems first revealed in April 2011;
Albert, Elizabeth and Mary streets would become a heavy construction site;
the busways linked to the Roma Street transit centre will be badly interrupted;
the cost has been reduced from $8.9 billion to $5.4 billion;
the length of the twin tunnels has reduced, from 10km to 5.9km and the tunnel boring machines drops from 4 to 2;
the benefit cost ratio is slightly lower at 1.41, than the 2010 model at 1.42;
Woolloongabba's Sunmap Centre and the GoPrint site near the cricket ground will still be demolished;
Changes to the line connection between Girls Grammar School at Spring Hill and the Exhibition line will make it cheaper.
A direct pedestrian link will also be built from the rail line to the Princess Alexandra Hospital under the plan.

Albert, Elizabeth and Mary streets would become a heavy construction site, the documents show.

"Mined caverns would be constructed between Margaret St and Mary St and between the central shaft near Mary Street and Elizabeth Street.

"For the Changed Project, the cut-and-cover work would be adjacent to properties between Elizabeth Street and Mary Street.

"Works for the Changed Project would require the closure of part of Albert Street. The worksite for the changed station in Albert Street would require occupation of Albert Street near its intersection with Mary Street, as well as property either side of the street."

Queensland's Opposition question the ongoing costs of the latest Palaszczuk Government model of the project, with deputy Opposition Leader Deb Frecklington last year arguing ongoing costs meant the true cost was $9.5 billion.

This was rejected in June 2016 as an incorrect analysis by deputy premier Jackie Trad.

On Sunday Ms Frecklington said the project had stalled.

"Don't be fooled – when Labor says something is going to cost less you can bet your bottom dollar there will be a massive blow out in costs," she said.

"In the latest reincarnation of the project, Jackie Trad embarrassingly had to move the proposed Albert Street station because she had no idea the first one would have been subjected to flooding."

ozbob · February 26, 2017, 16:16:42 PM

ozbob · February 26, 2017, 16:47:07 PM

Quote from: Stillwater on February 26, 2017, 15:38:04 PM
LNP accuses ALP of playing politics over CRR by .... playing politics itself. Or playing the man/Minister. As BrizCommuter correctly points out, what is the LNP solution? No wonder that people, disillusioned by the major parties, are flocking to One Nation.

Ken Henry, a member of the IA Board, nailed it when in an address to CEDA, said none of the major parties had adopted a bipartisan stance on any of the proposed major infrastructure projects currently on the table. The parties are so pre-occupied with scuttling their opponent's pet project that they insult taxpayers and commuters and industry that suffer because it hasn't been built.

Infrastructure Partnerships Australia (a private industry lobby group) says investment in major infrastructure in Queensland is half that of NSW, despite the massive growth our state is experiencing.

IPA CEO, Brendan Lyon, is quoted as saying this (Sunday-Mail): "Queensland has lots of plans, but no dollars to pay for them and, as the community knows, political visions that are not backed with money are really just hallucinations."

Usually, state Labor's thinking involves holding out the plans in order to gain the votes, but expecting that the tab will be picked up by someone else -- the private sector, councils, the federal government. It is a fool's paradise.

Jackie Trad should ban green cordial from the Ministerial staff kitchen.

Brisbane Times story: The cost of doing nothing on CRR

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/seq-rail-commuters-will-double-in-10-years-government-figures-20170226-guljoo.html

There is a particular sad political self destruct process within Queensland. As I travel around Australia I see many great things happening transport wise. I return to Queensland and I see political games, grand plans, appalling transport system and not much else.

A city that is having spasms about a pop concert at the Gabba for a 60,000 crowd is really a harbinger for future failure, and demonstrates well the true state. 60,000 is just a Saturday afternoon footy crowd in Melbourne. Routine ...

" Ken Henry, a member of the IA Board, nailed it when in an address to CEDA, said none of the major parties had adopted a bipartisan stance on any of the proposed major infrastructure projects currently on the table. The parties are so pre-occupied with scuttling their opponent's pet project that they insult taxpayers and commuters and industry that suffer because it hasn't been built. "

Indeed Mr Henry, indeed!

ozbob · February 27, 2017, 02:17:45 AM

Sent to all outlets:

27th February 2017

Comment: Tim Nicholls and LNP hides their hands on CRR, Doomben Line!

Greetings,

RAIL Back on Track again calls on LNP Leader Tim Nicholls to declare his and the LNP position on Cross River Rail and Doomben Line upgrades in his own electorate.

Further information about Cross River Rail was released over the weekend. Our members will be participating constructively in the consultation period following that.

What we are missing though is a declared position by the LNP and leader Tim Nicholls about Cross River Rail under a LNP administration.

In a statement on the Opposition website titled "Trad conning South-East Queenslanders over Cross River Rail" Cross River Rail is described as "pie in the sky".

It is also claimed that "secret taxes" would be used to fund the project. A bit of a nonsense really as most people notice when they are taxed.

RAIL Back on Track has attempted a number of times now to get a straight answer about the LNP's position on Cross River Rail.
Unfortunately, no information about the LNP's policy position has been forthcoming. Why is that?

Mr Nicholls, what will happen to the Cross River Rail project if you gain office?

Mr Nicholls what mix of taxation, borrowing or asset sales/leases will be used to fund the project?

These are simple questions that should have simple and straightforward answers.

RAIL Back On Track members are also asking whether Mr Nicholls supports rail upgrades in his own electorate, which has the worst railway service levels in Brisbane.

Mr Nicholls, what is your position on the duplication and extension of the Doomben line to Portside Hamilton?

Earthworks preparing the Doomben line were completed in the 1950s, however duplicated track was never laid and the project remains incomplete.

There are also no train services on the Doomben line on Sundays. It is national and international worst practice really.
What is Mr Nicholls going to do about that - it is his own electorate?

RAIL Back on Track is a politically neutral organisation. We assess proposals based on merit.

We look forward to a written, prompt and complete response from the LNP clarifying their policy position.

Best wishes,
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

References:

Trad conning SEQ on Cross River Rail
http://www.timnicholls.com.au/trad-conning-south-east-queenslanders-cross-river-rail/

NorthShore / Doomben Line
https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=4852.0

ozbob · February 27, 2017, 02:23:47 AM

Latest: Comment: @TimNichollsMP & @LNPQLD hide their hands on CRR, Doomben Line!
> https://t.co/hiaFjDEV5G #qldpol @QLDLabor @QldGreens pic.twitter.com/Jm5vZJngJN
— Robert Dow (@Robert_Dow) February 26, 2017

ozbob · February 27, 2017, 02:30:19 AM

Proposed changes to the Cross River rail will save taxpayers $2.6 billion https://t.co/XbkPIxkH90 @katrinablowers #7News pic.twitter.com/sNelqTmhjZ
— 7 News Queensland (@7NewsQueensland) February 26, 2017

ozbob · February 27, 2017, 02:38:22 AM

The QLD government is inviting further public submissions on its refined Cross River Rail plans for Brisbane. https://t.co/jCUfp4TEEy #9News
— Nine News Brisbane (@9NewsBrisbane) February 26, 2017

ozbob · February 27, 2017, 02:56:17 AM

Couriermail Editorial: Transport funding is vital to getting Queensland moving

QuoteNO OTHER state is as decentralised as Queensland, and none has a comparable reliance on such a vast transport system.

For far too long a succession of federal governments neglected to provide fair, or even adequate, funding for transport, leaving Queensland to find its own money to maintain a network unlike any other in the country.

It meant that all too often regions were left to wait years for vital infrastructure, and major cities were left isolated from each other. Inadequate transport hampered the development of our mining and agriculture sectors and contributed to a perception that, while the state was an economic powerhouse providing vastly disproportionate income to the nation, it was also disproportionately neglected by the Commonwealth.

Twelve years ago the Commonwealth was contributing just a quarter of the cost of transport infrastructure in Queensland.

Today's Infrastructure Association of Queensland report indicates that those years of neglect are being overcome, with federal money to contribute 72 per cent of the cost of 14 major road projects between now and 2020.

In October Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull was in Queensland to spruik $50 billion in transport spending for the state.

That is to be welcomed, but it is fair to observe that this investment is long overdue and cannot make up for all the opportunities lost that were a direct result of not being able to provide efficient, safe transport around the state.

Nor in the case of the Bruce Highway – identified by the RACQ as once being the worst and most dangerous stretch of highway in the country – can the new injection of money make up for the lives that were lost or ruined because of a bad road.

The Courier-Mail has previously, and continuously, identified outstanding transport needs for Queensland.

The 14 projects planned over the next three years are all critical, but there remains a list of other pressing needs.

A year ago Infrastructure Australia, which advises the Federal Government, acknowledged 10 of 12 projects submitted by the State Government in its 15-year national plan.

The Courier-Mail welcomed that plan but warned that without a schedule and a serious injection of federal cash, Queensland could not afford further delays or uncertainty.

Top among the necessary projects is a second rail crossing of the Brisbane River.

Cross River Rail is absolutely vital, and while federal governments continue to dodge responsibility – and successive state governments delay finalised plans and costings – the economy of Queensland, and therefore Australia, suffers.

There is also the continuing issue of population pressure, which means the M1-Gateway merge has also been identified as a priority, as has the Sunshine Coast rail line duplication.

New money is welcome, fairer funding is welcome, and the structure of a long-term plan is also welcome, but what is really needed now is concrete progress.

BrizCommuter · February 27, 2017, 06:05:22 AM

BrizCommuter has reviewed the rail operation plan for post-Cross River Rail Mk3.
http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2017/02/cross-river-rail-mk3-analysis-winners.html

The conclusion is below (the main text goes into more detail on a line by line basis).
It seems that with every cost cutting iteration of Cross River Rail, that the benefits decrease. CRR will potentially allow for considerable service improvements on the Gold Coast and Redcliffe Peninsula Lines. Smaller service improvements are expected to occur on the Beenleigh, Cleveland, Caboolture, and Sunshine Coast Lines. For these improvements to occur, funding would be required for multiple infrastructure improvements that could easily add a few billion dollars to the "real"cost of CRR. The state government needs to come clean on the costs of associated infrastructure required to achieve these improvements and benefit claims, which are outside of the scope and funding of CRR.

Claimed improvements to peak services on the Ipswich, Rosewood, and Springfield Lines do not require CRR to be achieved. There will be no improvements to peak services as a result of CRR on the Ferny Grove, Shorncliffe, Inner North, Airport, and Doomben Lines. This is very disappointing, and supports Brisbane City Council's otherwise misguided claim that Cross River Rail does not benefit commuters living in Brisbane. Cross River Rail will improve access to Wooloongabba, the Southern end of Brisbane's CBD, RNA Showgrounds, and Herston Health Campus (RBWH).

The current tit-for-tat politics is preventing the LNP Federal Government from assisting the ALP State Government with funding. There is also the likelihood that the next Queensland government may be a coalition between the (public transport policy destructive) LNP and the "racist party" One Nation. Thus unless a shovel is in the ground before the next State election, BrizCommuter is highly concerned that CRR will be delayed even further. This would be very bad news, given that Queensland is considerably under-prepared for expected population increases during the next few decades.

ozbob · February 27, 2017, 06:30:31 AM

^ thanks

BrizCommuter: @CrossRiverRail Mk3 Analysis - Winners and Losers
> https://t.co/e3hdvM3rSb #qldpol #auspol @jackietrad @AndrewPowellMP pic.twitter.com/xbU3VGp2pq
— Robert Dow (@Robert_Dow) February 26, 2017

#Metro · February 27, 2017, 06:51:47 AM

Great and thorough analysis there Brizcommuter.

The weakest link will determine what the ultimate capacity going into the tunnel will be.

Will be interesting to ask if the setup will permit trains every 15 minutes in both directions on both the Beenleigh and Gold Coast lines

during the non-peak period. This is essential as people don't just travel during the 1-hour peak.

Unfortunately, I am not hopeful about this project as I can already see the usual "Queensland" approach to doing things - cut corners

and so forth to "reduce the cost" so that we get something cheap but nasty / half baked. This then will cause problems later on and

will require retrofitting a solution. I can't remember a time where the "let's do it cheaper" approach didn't end in disaster - even the

busway system now needs to be upgraded to metro in the end anyway.

Indeed, this seems to be the general "QLD" approach to things. Whether it be raising only half or the middle bit of platforms, to

"cheaper" railway signalling or leaving things out that are later deemed essential.

ALL Beenleigh line trains (including the ones that are only terminating at Salisbury) should use the CRR tunnel.

If passengers want to use the Beenleigh line from South Bank they can interchange at Park Road. This will guarantee high-frequency

train services all day long and people can catch the first train that comes past. Off peak Cleveland line trains are already 4 trains/hour

so it should not be too much of an issue.

As many stations need to be rebuilt, this is an excellent opportunity to do TOD and reduce the project cost further. Will the QLD

Government look at that or will they let an opportunity pass by as they have done with other station revamps?

BrizCommuter · February 27, 2017, 07:20:54 AM

Quote from: @Metro on February 27, 2017, 06:51:47 AM
Great and thorough analysis there Brizcommuter.

The weakest link will determine what the ultimate capacity going into the tunnel will be.

Will be interesting to ask if the setup will permit trains every 15 minutes in both directions on both the Beenleigh and Gold Coast lines

during the non-peak period. This is essential as people don't just travel during the 1-hour peak.

Unfortunately, I am not hopeful about this project as I can already see the usual "Queensland" approach to doing things - cut corners

and so forth to "reduce the cost" so that we get something cheap but nasty / half baked. This then will cause problems later on and

will require retrofitting a solution. I can't remember a time where the "let's do it cheaper" approach didn't end in disaster - even the

busway system now needs to be upgraded to metro in the end anyway.

Indeed, this seems to be the general "QLD" approach to things. Whether it be raising only half or the middle bit of platforms, to

"cheaper" railway signalling or leaving things out that are later deemed essential.

ALL Beenleigh line trains (including the ones that are only terminating at Salisbury) should use the CRR tunnel.

If passengers want to use the Beenleigh line from South Bank they can interchange at Park Road. This will guarantee high-frequency

train services all day long and people can catch the first train that comes past. Off peak Cleveland line trains are already 4 trains/hour

so it should not be too much of an issue.

As many stations need to be rebuilt, this is an excellent opportunity to do TOD and reduce the project cost further. Will the QLD

Government look at that or will they let an opportunity pass by as they have done with other station revamps?

15min counter-peak or bi-di off peak on the Beenleigh and Gold Coast Lines is not possible with current service patterns unless there is a partial quadruplication (around Altandi based on current timetables).

Salisbury starting services should be sent via South Bank as per the proposal to maintain high frequency through that section, and allow service balancing with the Northern lines that use the suburbans (e.g. Ferny Grove, Airport, etc). Counter peak trains through South Bank can be very busy even with the current >10tph.

Stillwater · February 27, 2017, 07:21:14 AM

Minister Trad should spell out the cost split. Okay, project cost on a cut-down version of CRR is now $5.6b. How much will the state chip in, how much does she expect the feds to pay and how much does she expect will come from private investors and/or 'revenue capture' via other means?

Good analysis BrisCommuter.

v6hilux · February 27, 2017, 07:21:55 AM

Quote from: BrizCommuter on February 27, 2017, 06:05:22 AM
CRR will potentially allow for considerable service improvements on the Gold Coast and Redcliffe Peninsula Lines. Smaller service improvements are expected to occur on the Beenleigh, Cleveland, Caboolture, and Sunshine Coast Lines.
Claimed improvements to peak services on the Ipswich, Rosewood, and Springfield Lines do not require CRR to be achieved. There will be no improvements to peak services as a result of CRR on the Ferny Grove, Shorncliffe, Inner North, Airport, and Doomben Lines.

I'm surprised the author of those words mentioned nothing about the proposed passenger service (to be built) from Salisbury to Beaudesert? The CRR will be the best thing ever for the EDQs Greater Flagstone PDA. This development area has sadly been neglected and lacking ANY public or private commuter train or bus options (School buses only). The explosion of development in the Greater Flagstone PDA is now in the DA approval/construction process for the Greenbank area with 3000 lots on one site alone (Mirvac land). The intention is develop up to 120,000 residences in the current PDA.

Anyway, let me not just focus on Greater Flagstone. There is plenty happening all over the place as far as the EDQ PDAs are concerned. Just have a look at some of the DAs already lodged - https://edqdad.dsdip.qld.gov.au/developmentAssessments/list/front/None/

There is no doubt in my mind that the current PT system in SEQ is unable to handle most of these developments and any new transport infrastructure is badly needed yesterday.

ozbob · February 27, 2017, 07:29:13 AM

Quote... I'm surprised the author of those words mentioned nothing about the proposed passenger service (to be built) from Salisbury to Beaudesert? ...

^ BrizCommuter did. Just not in the summary.

Read full blog article here > http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2017/02/cross-river-rail-mk3-analysis-winners.html

v6hilux · February 27, 2017, 07:31:21 AM

Quote from: ozbob on February 27, 2017, 07:29:13 AM
BrizCommuter did. Just not in the summary.

Read full blog article here > http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2017/02/cross-river-rail-mk3-analysis-winners.html

OK, thanks, I must have missed it.

#Metro · February 27, 2017, 07:34:20 AM

Quote15min counter-peak or bi-di off peak on the Beenleigh and Gold Coast Lines is not possible with current service patterns unless there is a partial quadruplication (around Altandi based on current timetables).

So just confirming - it is not possible even with CRR? 15-minutes on both lines in both directions seems basic really. Perth does it.

QuoteSalisbury starting services should be sent via South Bank as per the proposal to maintain high frequency through that section, and allow service balancing with the Northern lines that use the suburbans (e.g. Ferny Grove, Airport, etc). Counter peak trains through South Bank can be very busy even with the current >10tph.

I would prefer more services via Cleveland line all day. I suspect that the off-peak Salisbury service will only be 2 trains/hour, doubt very much that it would be frequent.

BrizCommuter · February 27, 2017, 08:22:13 AM

Quote from: @Metro on February 27, 2017, 07:34:20 AM
Quote15min counter-peak or bi-di off peak on the Beenleigh and Gold Coast Lines is not possible with current service patterns unless there is a partial quadruplication (around Altandi based on current timetables).

So just confirming - it is not possible even with CRR? 15-minutes on both lines in both directions seems basic really. Perth does it.

More infrastructure is required on the Beenleigh line to allow 4tph Gold Coast services to overtake 4tph Beenleigh Line services in both directions. The alternative is to slow down Gold Coast services.

Perth does not have a mix of long distance expresses and shorter distance all station services. Thus it can handle 15 min frequency with only two tracks per line as no overtaking is required.

#Metro · February 27, 2017, 08:41:31 AM

QuoteMore infrastructure is required on the Beenleigh line to allow 4tph Gold Coast services to overtake 4tph Beenleigh Line services in both directions. The alternative is to slow down Gold Coast services.

So we pay $5.4 billion for a tunnel and we still cannot get a basic all day 15-min train service on the Gold Coast and Beenleigh lines.

That's pretty shocking.

QuotePerth does not have a mix of long distance expresses and shorter distance all station services. Thus it can handle 15 min frequency with only two tracks per line as no overtaking is required.

Mostly true. I just think they are more competent in all respects really. There were some weird expresses when I visited but they were generally restricted to peak only.

Armadale / Thornlie line features some expresses, but not to the extent of the GC line:
http://www.transperth.wa.gov.au/timetablepdfs/Armadale%20Thornlie%20Line%2020160131.pdf

SurfRail · February 27, 2017, 09:23:21 AM

^ The only directly analogous section is between Cannington and Claisebrook, which is only 10km on nearly ruler straight track. There are only 6 stops in between these stations, and all services stop at Oats Street, so the timetable can easily accommodate it.

Beenleigh to Gold Coast is another box of frogs dealing with around 45km of overlapping all-stations and express patterns and with only 3 tracks north of Kuraby. CRR is neither necessary nor sufficient to address 15 minute all day services here.

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