Cross River Rail Project

Jonno · February 02, 2017, 22:39:02 PM

There is plenty of Transport budget to build CRR without Federal Funding Just redirect wastefull freeway/motorway extension. Just have some political balls to do it ALP!!

ozbob · February 03, 2017, 03:00:40 AM

ozbob · February 03, 2017, 03:01:46 AM

Quote from: dancingmongoose on February 02, 2017, 20:47:10 PM
Quote from: verbatim9 on February 02, 2017, 19:38:21 PM
9 News reported that all Three levels of Government need to co-operate and incorporate Metro to release funds. MAT here we come!

https://twitter.com/9NewsBrisbane/status/827069382010417153

That made me so angry. It does not need to integrate with the metro. It should not integrate with the metro. There should be no compromise at all to account for the vague possibility of the metro. RIP Brisbane rail network

" RIP Brisbane rail network "

Yep, rooted!

Stillwater · February 03, 2017, 05:34:09 AM

Stirling Hinchliffe has already flagged that the rail fiasco will be a factor at the next state election and may well cost the ALP some votes. Understatement. What's strange is that the ALP just accepts it. Like junkies, they are addicted to the political games and not to practical and workable solutions.

Okay, CRR is dead, how about bringing forward ETCS to improve efficiency on the current network. Or, if that occurs, does it affect the BCR for CRR? I don't know, but I know that there are people who should know, Mr Hinchliffe included, but they seem to be thin on the ground. With all these administrative silos, it is easy to pass the buck.

Maybe we should take some comfort from the fact that the Premier is meeting with Mr Strahan today. Fresh eyes may give a different perspective. One thing is for sure -- PT should be in line for substantial spending boost in the June Budget. Will the election be held a few months later?

ozbob · February 03, 2017, 05:44:22 AM

CRR is on ' life support ' at present. Whether they turn off the life support devices will depend very much on #qldvotes I fear.

In the meantime yes the best thing is to proceed with ATP (ETCS L2 or better) for the suburban network This will boost capacity and of course safety. Commence the upgrade of the SCL - Beerburrum <> Landsborough North immediately, proceed to business case for the extension of the railway from Springfield Central to Redbank Plains. That will provide lots of economic stimulus and within the resources of the state. Should some funds become available from the Feds, well that is a bonus. The Feds are more likely to cough up some biscuits if they can see some real action happening, not just rhetorical spin and videos with crappy music

#Metro · February 03, 2017, 05:47:56 AM

Red team just don't want to privatise, borrow or lease something because it would shatter the fantasy that they built up at the last election that we could have it all for nothing.

There are heaps of assets, but the equity ($billions) is just locked up in them. https://www.business.qld.gov.au/industries/mining-energy-water/energy/electricity/queensland/generation

This is the equivalent of having gold bars lying around and crying poor to the Federal Government.

Does CS Energy and Stanwell Corporation really really need to be Queensland Government owned?

Or would we rather cash that in and build CRR with that money?? What is more important?

These are the kind of prickly questions that Red Team want to avoid. They are the opposite extreme of Newman - extreme passive.

Don't do anything, don't offend anyone, tread water.

NSW has its own problems, but a merging Queensland back into it would have many benefits.

#Metro · February 03, 2017, 05:55:45 AM

QuoteOkay, CRR is dead, how about bringing forward ETCS to improve efficiency on the current network. Or, if that occurs, does it affect the BCR for CRR? I don't know, but I know that there are people who should know, Mr Hinchliffe included, but they seem to be thin on the ground. With all these administrative silos, it is easy to pass the buck.

It will reduce the benefits from CRR, the BCR would have to be recalculated.

Benefits largely come from time savings, this is due to extra train services being put on.

Has the full business case been released for CRR 3 now? Been enough time for all in gov't to look at it now.

ozbob · February 03, 2017, 06:05:36 AM

I doubt that ETCS will affect the BCR, It has been factored in already.

> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=8303.msg175905#msg175905

Stillwater · February 03, 2017, 08:58:53 AM

Maybe ETCS contract should be amended now, in light of stalled CRR, to include Park Road-Merivale Bridge. It has been planned for Milton-Northgate initially.

#Metro · February 03, 2017, 09:04:45 AM

Really starting to think of "alternative uses" for the $850 million put down for CRR.

Perhaps Jackie Trad MP could write "ministerial directive" mandating that the Cross River Rail Delivery Authority spend that money on ECTS

upgrades and perhaps a platform upgrade to the Shorncliffe line so that we can get 15 min trains on that line too.

As long as we have CS Energy and Stanwell Corporation QLD Government owned, the funding for CRR is in the bag essentially.

Gazza · February 03, 2017, 09:16:31 AM

But it's politically unacceptable because people will associate selling them with higher power prices.

Jonno · February 03, 2017, 10:45:12 AM

QLD has the funds just not the political will! They are still operating in the "balanced mode approach" mode for transport funding which is really just status quo road-first funding!

#Metro · February 18, 2017, 08:04:14 AM

Brisbane Times HQ is doing a special dredging up old plans that never went anywhere.

This week it is the Western Bypass, but no doubt Cross River FAIL will make the cut.

Whatever happened to ... Brisbane's Western Bypass
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/whatever-happened-to--brisbanes-western-bypass-20170216-guevja.html

QuoteFairfax Media today begins a series of reports about transport issues that have slipped off the planning agenda.

We will begin to put these projects back on the agenda, so you can decide if the answers to why no work is underway is appropriate.

ozbob · February 23, 2017, 02:36:38 AM

Couriermail --> What could've cut Adele traffic woes in Brisbane

QuotePUBLIC transport woes threatening to waylay Adele fans as they make their way to one of her two Brisbane concerts next month would have been less likely if the cross-river rail had already been built, Transport Minister Jackie Trad has claimed.

The Adele concerts, to be held at the Gabba on March 4 and 5, are expected to attract 60,000 fans each night, testing the bus and train network.

With the cross-river rail station planned for Woolloongabba, the Deputy Premier (pictured) said Adele fans would have had a much smoother ride to the concert if the $5.5 billion infrastructure project had been built after it was first mooted.

"The fact is, we would not have this transport situation at the Gabba if cross-river rail was operating now," Ms Trad said. "With cross-river rail you would be able to walk across the road to the new station at Woolloongabba and make your way home quickly, easily and safely. We want more world-class acts to come to the Gabba, but to do that we need a world-class transport system and that means building cross-river rail."

The state and federal governments are locked in a funding battle over cross-river rail.

Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk has declared the project ready to go and called on the Commonwealth to stump up funds to make it a reality.

The Commonwealth, however, has said the 10.2km rail link between Bowen Hills and Woolloongabba — including five new stations — did not properly integrate with Brisbane's transport network and needed more work.

ozbob · February 23, 2017, 02:38:09 AM

Errr ... I wonder why CRR is still a dream?

A succession of mediocre Governments unable to deliver the infrastructure that is really needed.

Just look to the rest of Oz - big things happening. Queensland, all aspirational crap sadly ...

kram0 · February 23, 2017, 10:49:22 AM

Quote from: ozbob on February 23, 2017, 02:38:09 AM
Errr ... I wonder why CRR is still a dream?

A succession of mediocre Governments unable to deliver the infrastructure that is really needed.

Just look to the rest of Oz - big things happening. Queensland, all aspirational crap sadly ...

Correct all talk and NO ACTION. My source said CRR is unlikely to start in its current form and that the next state government and council will announce a joint project with federal funds after the next election.

ozbob · February 24, 2017, 18:25:09 PM

Brisbane's Cross River Rail is a step closer. @PatrickCondren #qldpol #7News https://t.co/NMmKKMCogK
— 7 News Queensland (@7NewsQueensland) February 24, 2017

#Metro · February 24, 2017, 18:51:56 PM

Shorter alignment?

Is is going to gloss over the future trouts road connection? Or is the idea to bore into the side of a working train tunnel underground at some point into the future?

Stillwater · February 24, 2017, 20:14:59 PM

Ms Trad continues to talk up the dream while ignoring the fundamentals that will make QR reasonably responsive to the transport task and the travel patterns of commuters.

ozbob · February 25, 2017, 03:02:56 AM

Quote from: @Metro on February 24, 2017, 18:51:56 PM

Shorter alignment?

Is is going to gloss over the future trouts road connection? Or is the idea to bore into the side of a working train tunnel underground at some point into the future?

I am thinking this is just another delay exercise. Feedback will sh%t-can the alignment. It is mediocre and IMHO not worth doing if it is compromised as it appears to be. It will disappear into political obscurity. Perhaps to resurface as a conjoint to a beefed up metro.

Sources within Queensland Rail have very serious concerns with the southern portal (as we do).

It really is a mess this. Future tunnel stubs, and 9 car station cavities are a must. Appears these have gone west ...

I cannot see it being built now. Too buggered up.

The only hope is ATP roll out, some 9 car services (Gold Coast?), changed network operations and improved job rostering.

ozbob · February 25, 2017, 03:05:06 AM

Quote from: Stillwater on February 24, 2017, 20:14:59 PM
Ms Trad continues to talk up the dream while ignoring the fundamentals that will make QR reasonably responsive to the transport task and the travel patterns of commuters.

Stillwater · February 25, 2017, 06:10:35 AM

What will be rolled out as policy at the next state election? 'Vote for us and we will build CRR' has obvious appeal to a swag of inner city seats. Let's hope the party concerned gets hammered if the project is buggered to cut costs, or if it remains unfunded.

The likelihood is that there will be a number of small promises made in marginal seats (a station upgrade here, bus interchange there) and this will be dressed up as some sort of 'integrated transport policy'.

Queensland voters don't want the illusionist's tricks when it comes to PT reform -- root and branch reorganisation is required. But it is too hard for the current crop of pollies, on both sides.

ozbob · February 25, 2017, 06:24:43 AM

ABC News Radio this morning - DP Trad " We want shovels in the ground (for CRR) by the end of this year " ...

"The last time we consulted the public re the EIS was 2012. Time to do that again now ... "

Guess will be consulted again re the EIS say maybe 2021, if we are lucky?

It is very difficult to take this latest CRR dream push seriously sadly ... just MHO.

ozbob · February 25, 2017, 06:25:46 AM

Updated >>> http://www.crossriverrail.qld.gov.au/

ozbob · February 25, 2017, 06:29:30 AM

Latest publications:

>>> http://www.crossriverrail.qld.gov.au/publications

#Metro · February 25, 2017, 08:07:55 AM

Must be an election coming soon. Bring all the Christmas decorations out of the cupboard.

ozbob · February 25, 2017, 08:39:47 AM

CRR is now on Twitter too !

This is the start of something big for South East Queensland. #crossriverrail pic.twitter.com/fcTWJKkIsE
— CrossRiverRail (@CrossRiverRail) February 24, 2017

ozbob · February 25, 2017, 08:58:12 AM

Errrr ....

Australia&#38;#38;#38;#39;s 100 most important infrastructure projects https://t.co/qUjgvx5dUS
— Alan Davies (@MelbUrbanist) February 24, 2017

Cross River Rail is not in the race - still languishing at ' High Priority Initiatives ' behind ' High Priority Projects ' and ' Priority Projects ' ... hey ho ..

Victoria has Melbourne Metro Rail up there as a high priority project. Just shows how bad the CRR ball has been dropped.

http://infrastructureaustralia.gov.au/policy-publications/publications/Infrastructure-Priority-List.aspx

The Infrastructure Priority List, Project and Initiative Summaries

>> http://infrastructureaustralia.gov.au/policy-publications/publications/files/Australian-Infrastructure-Plan-2017.pdf

#Metro · February 25, 2017, 09:46:37 AM

Ugh, another scam video, just what we need.

This is a vaporware project. If a retailer did this, fair trading would be after them.

ozbob · February 25, 2017, 10:17:03 AM

Stillwater · February 25, 2017, 10:47:17 AM

Ms Trad has sat down at her desk, which now has the CRR file gathering dust, and has dusted off the baubles and fairy lights to string about the Tower of Power to once again dazzle the kiddies below with dreams of under-river rail travel. Expect a big political push in the lead-up to the state election along the lines of .....

ALP is ready to go with CRR and has money on the table
Big bad conservatives in Canberra won't come to the party, LNP fail
SHOW US THE MONEY!

It's a repeat performance by the biggest diva left now that the Electoral Boundaries Commission has announced plans to abolish the seat of Indooroopilly and deny the incumbent there his political oxygen.

CRR project will be compromised, scoped back to its bare nastiness, if ever it is built. Where are the trains and the drivers required to operate the services through the tunnel, Ms Trad? That is the starting point. Stick to the fundamentals and don't yet again, crank out the videos, 'fake news', fly-throughs and glossy brochures.

Pleeaasse!

IA lists CRR as a 'proposed initiative', which states the bleeding obvious as to where it sits currently. This project has become such a political football that it has been kicked to death. The CRR Delivery Authority was supposed to take this out of the hands of politicians. Fat chance! And especially not the case with Ms Trad back in charge of PT and Infrastructure.

ozbob · February 25, 2017, 12:17:26 PM

ozbob · February 25, 2017, 12:44:41 PM

This is worth having a read of if the rest is to daunting ..

Volume 1 – Request for project change

http://eisdocs.dsdip.qld.gov.au/Cross%20River%20Rail/project-change-application/volume-1-request-for-project-change.pdf 34.4 MB

Cazza · February 25, 2017, 13:54:10 PM

I have an idea that is very optimistic and I'm guessing most may say unreasonable. But I want to propose it anyway

What should happen is that CRR should be 4 tracks. Heading northbound after Roma St station, 2 tracks continue the original route towards Exhibition but then the other 2 tracks head off in the Kelvin Grove Rd direction. These 2 tracks will run on the eastern side of KG Rd (probably in a tunnel for it's entirety) to Everton Park to meet up with the Trouts Rd corridor. I am proposing 3 new stations to be built - Kelvin Grove (underneath the urban village), Newmarket Central (underneath Reading Newmarket) and Alderley (the new platforms will be underground but in the same station precinct). This will take the strain off the Ferny Grove Line between Alderley and Bowen Hills Stations because the Trouts Rd trains don't have to run via Wilston etc.

There are 2 major issues that are pretty obvious with this concept: 1- Money. This project will cost billions due to the approx. 6-7km long tunnel between Roma St and Everton Park. 2- Terrain. As KG is situated up on a hill, the depth of the tunnel at KG station would have to be very deep to account for the fairly steep hill down towards Enoggera Creek.

I know this is a very vague idea and if anyone would like me to map it out for them, I can do that too. This is just a concept that (I hope) may be investigated further as a feasible option for a future rail corridor.

ozbob · February 25, 2017, 14:04:42 PM

Welcome Cazza. Thanks for your comments. It has been raised before in a general sense and has some merit of course.

What concerns some of us is the above CRR #3 (third iteration) has no real future proofing. At a minimum I think there should be provision made for tunnel extensions etc. by the provision of tunnel stubs. Without those going to very difficult to improve it down the track.

Stillwater · February 25, 2017, 15:16:02 PM

With yet another reworking of the CRR project, how can Jackie Trad and the ALP say that CRR is 'construction ready'? Another reworking requires yet another assessment and re-evaluation, surely.

So, CRR Mk3? is now the 'old' and 'reference project'. Strip out the costs is the instruction from government.

"There would be new and realigned surface track through Mayne Yard to connect the Changed Project with the North Coast Line between Breakfast/Enoggera Creek and Albion Station."

No tunnel stubs, no Trouts Road Corridor in the next 20 years, no fast express trains to the Sunshine Coast in "about an hour" unless governments redefine Sunshine Coast as Landsborough.

Typical Queenslander!

An interesting comment regarding rail freight:

"The need for a dedicated freight track in this corridor is driven by forecast freight demand. Rail freight demand forecasts for the Reference Project anticipated strong growth in the corridor. These forecasts have now been revised downward.

"Investigations undertaken for the Changed Project demonstrate that forecast freight demand can be accommodated within the existing rail network. Existing demand for freight through the Yeerongpilly section is around 50% of available capacity (train paths).

"Consequently, the number of rail freight movements could double before additional capacity is required."

Clearly, lack of action will see NCL freight decline.

"Previous modelling for the Reference Project anticipated the number of freight movements on the North Coast Line at opening year was expected to reach 264 movements a week compared to 114 freight movements a week for the revised scenario for the Changed Project.

"The Changed Project would retain the existing combination of surface tracks for passenger and freight services south of Dutton Park Station. Reflecting current operations, freight trains would be constrained in operating in the corridor during peak passenger periods and the corridor generally sustains the existing capacity for freight trains that exist without the Project."

What shall we refer to CRR as now? CRR-CP1 maybe? The letters CP referring to Changed Project.

The Changed Project BCR is 1.41, as opposed to 1.42.

General conclusions in the report:

"The Changed Project remains within the study corridor for the Reference Project, and achieves the same strategic transport objectives. The Project has been refined in response to affordability considerations, engineering design, community feedback and other technical assessments."

BrizCommuter · February 25, 2017, 15:52:55 PM

Most of the post-CRR frequencies mentioned on CRRs website already exist. In fact, only the Cleveland Line is shown as having a benefit, and that would require duplication (not covered in CRR costs). Expect a blog post on this sometime!

ozbob · February 25, 2017, 15:56:40 PM

^ thanks ..

Meanwhile ... time for a morale boost

2008! Gold ...

Stillwater · February 25, 2017, 16:32:14 PM

ah, the nostalgia!

#Metro · February 25, 2017, 17:36:11 PM

As soon as the election is called and another party comes in, the project will be scrapped and reset.

There are no federal funds either as that is locked on combining CRR and Metro projects in some way.

Even if it gets built I doubt it will open as the trains won't let disabled people or guards on.

News:

Cross River Rail Project