Cross River Rail Project

[#Metro]

Cross River Rail will be scrapped IMHO. Money isn't on the table.

The amount QLD gov has put on the table and is crowing about is token.

No federal funds or BCC funds at this stage either. Non starter.

Entire transport portfolio is a basket case. Have you noticed BCC has gone very quiet about the metro?

Other factor is the national debt has exploded under blue team. Debt ceiling needs raising and will be raised soon. Fed  Govt might be hesitant to spend in such case.

How much money does the state government require from the Federal Government to start tunnelling? 1 billion?

None. Federal money is a want not a need. QLD government could sell or borrow against assets such as power generators/networks and have enough money to build. Politics.

[verbatim9]

The tunnelling surely can be done with station shells. Fitouts, electrification, substations etc..., tracks can be done later. Might be better to have empty tunnels for a couple of years. Then when extra money comes in, the project can be finished off.

[ozbob]

You know its bad when the RACQ are telling the government to get their sh%t together regarding CRR.

Yes, the RACQ are as frustrated as we all are.  The RACQ do support public transport, strongly at times.  I have met with them from time to time and they are not completely road obsessed, although they do strongly support sensible road upgrades etc. which is to be expected  (RACQ was against KSD widening by the way ) but they well understand the role of public transport in the transport network. 

It is to their members advantage to have good frequent public transport.

[ozbob]

Cross River Rail will be scrapped IMHO. Money isn't on the table.

The amount QLD gov has put on the table and is crowing about is token.

No federal funds or BCC funds at this stage either. Non starter.

Entire transport portfolio is a basket case. Have you noticed BCC has gone very quiet about the metro?

Other factor is the national debt has exploded under blue team. Debt ceiling needs raising and will be raised soon. Fed  Govt might be hesitant to spend in such case.

How much money does the state government require from the Federal Government to start tunnelling? 1 billion?

None. Federal money is a want not a need. QLD government could sell or borrow against assets such as power generators/networks and have enough money to build. Politics.

Yope.  Dead as a dead-duck I think.

Meanwhile the ' Brisbane Metro ' business case will appear in a few months.  The effort we have put into that might just pay off.

Driverless is now the go, and it will have a lot more capacity I understand.  This might be the thing that does get going as the way Labor is going they are going to down! Down down down ...

[nathandavid88]

Just saw this on the Courier Mail site:

Federal Government rejects city cross-river rail network project

EXCLUSIVE Steven Wardill, The Courier-Mail
14 minutes ago
Subscriber only

THE Federal Government has warned that Cross River Rail does not properly integrate with the rest of Brisbane's transport network, in a blow to the Palaszczuk State Government's top-priority project.

Urban Infrastructure Minister Paul Fletcher has insisted that "more work" is required on plans for the $5.5 billion inner-Brisbane rail link to ­ensure a better long-term solution for commuters.

The concerns come just days after Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk declared Cross River Rail as being "ready to go" and demanding funding in the next federal budget.

The schism risks further ­delays to Cross River Rail, which has been the subject of debate for more than a decade.

It could force the cash-strapped Palaszczuk Government to find new funding solutions.

The 10.2km rail link between Bowen Hills and Woolloongabba, including five new stations, would ease forecast gridlock for train services travelling the Merivale Bridge into the inner city.

However, a spokeswoman for Mr Fletcher yesterday said while the Turnbull Government was eager to work with the State, the Cross River Rail plan needed to be improved.

"This is an opportunity for the Commonwealth Government to work with the Queensland Government to ensure a long-term and integrated solution to reduce congestion in the CBD, improve public transport ­services and strengthen urban renewal and amenity opportunities offered by Cross River Rail," she said.

Labor previously lampooned Brisbane Lord Mayor Graham Quirk's proposed metro system as "fancy buses" and rejected his proposal to use a state-owned site for ­stabling.

Deputy Premier Jackie Trad said Cross River Rail was ready for construction, regardless of the additional planning occurring

Source: http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/federal-government-rejects-city-crossriver-rail-network-project/news-story/161a647b4f1c5464b72f6c004d521195

[Gazza]

How? Why?

I thought the plan integrated perfectly...Busway connections at Roma St and Gabba and Boggo Rd, Rail connections at Roma St and Park Rd.

I think the only connection done sub optimally would be between CRR and the Ferny Grove line.

[ozbob]

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/federal-government-rejects-city-crossriver-rail-network-project/news-story/161a647b4f1c5464b72f6c004d521195

^ it is polyticks trumping policy.  As I feared CRR is a dead-duck in the festering political environment of today.

LNP & BCC with its metro has convinced the feds blue that CRR is bad and is a ' Labor ' project.

The best you can hope for is a ' metro ' of sorts.  At least we seemed to have moved onto driverless and with improved capacity.

Now that CRR is effectively dead maybe a better alignment for metro can be achieved. 

The rail network is shot. Good job Queensland Rail, your ineptness has compounded the CRR failure.

Sorry to be brutal but sometimes one must be honest.

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

2nd February 2017

R. I. P. Cross River Rail

Good Morning,

Well it does now seem that Cross River Rail (CRR) is dead.  R.I.P.

Federal Government rejects city cross-river rail network project

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/federal-government-rejects-city-crossriver-rail-network-project/news-story/161a647b4f1c5464b72f6c004d521195

This is no surprise to RAIL Back On Track members.  The vacillation now since 2009 with this project, compounded by the rail fail of late, and no doubt extensive lobbying by the LNP (State and BCC) because they perceive CRR is a ' Labor ' project has jaundiced the view of the present Federal Government, which sadly continues to put politics before sound transport policy.

Until public transport administration and operation is organised along the lines we have suggested, that is the formation of a proper authority: Public Transport Queensland - Brisbane and SEQ will continue its now rapid slide down the sewer of transport failure.

What a diabolical mess successive spineless Governments have created.  Redcliffe Peninsula Line - failure, New Generation Rollingstock - failure, Bus network reform - failure. A railway operator unable to deliver proper service levels.  Poor bus frequency and coverage throughout SEQ. A non-integrated public transport network.

Brisbane City Council will no doubt continue to press their ' metro '.  As we pointed out as originally proposed the metro was an absurdity.  However we are heartened as our attempts to bring this project up to the real world demands might just pay off.  We understand now that the ' metro ' will now be driverless (essential) and will have much more capacity.  It really does need to be capable of delivering 30,000 passengers per hour per direction (pphpd) to warrant the investment and disruption to the core inner bus network.  If a true 30,000 pphpd that is achieved for ' metro ' we will be strong supporters.  With CRR dead, the ' metro ' can be on a much better alignment and future extensions will be possible.

Well done mediocre spineless Governments.  What a basket case you have delivered for Queensland!

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

Sent to all outlets:

26th January 2017

Public Transport Queensland ?

Good Morning,

Since 2009 public transport for SEQ has been on a serious downhill slide to failure.

The cessation of the duplication project of the Sunshine Coast Line from Beerburrum to Landsborough in 2009 was really a harbinger of the mediocrity to follow.

In 2010 saw the commencement of the 5 year fare strategy for SEQ, which saw fares effectively double in cost and ended up as an abysmal failure.  The recent implementation of the new fare structure for SEQ is perhaps one of a very few shining success stories.

The collapse of the Brisbane Bus network reform in 2013 is another spectacular low-light of shame.  The effects of this linger on.

Now we have chronic under-servicing on the rail network.   Cross River Rail goes around in circles.  The New Generation Rollingstock trains are yet to see revenue passengers - completely botched ordering process.  Similarly, problems linger with the signalling associated with the Redcliffe Peninsula Line and the interface to the rest of the rail network in SEQ.

It is clear that the administration and operation of public transport in SEQ has been a failure.

Band-aids will not sort it, nor will pie in the sky ' Brisbane Metro ' pipe dreams. 

There needs to be complete reorganisation of how public transport is administered and operated in Queensland.

A good model is the Public Transport Authority of Western Australia (see below).

We need to form a proper Statutory Authority - Public Transport Queensland (PTQ).  Under PTQ there would be various divisions.  For example:  Heavy Rail, Light Rail, Ferry, Bus & Coach, Active Transport, Fares and Ticketing, & Infrastructure, Policy, could be some of these.  Under these major divisions would be various branches - for example under Heavy Rail - there could be Suburban rail, Inter-urban rail, Long Distance Passenger Rail services,  and Freight.

PTQ would bring all public transport administration together. It would replace the ' silos of mediocrity ' and replication we have now with TransLink, Queensland Rail, Transport and Main Roads, and BCC.  PTQ would administer the service contracts for all operators, including heavy rail.  It would bring Queensland Rail into a competitive performance based environment as an operator.  A good thing.

I recently visited Western Australia and had the opportunity to experience a very well run and connected public transport network.  Transperth delivers. We cannot say the say the same for TransLink.

Unless proper reform is achieved, SEQ is simply going to stagger on from failure to failure, with even more transport congestion and even more worse outcomes.

It's time to take the big decisions.

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org


Reference:

http://www.pta.wa.gov.au/portals/0/annualreports/2014/content/corporate/organisational-structure.asp

[ozbob]

Latest media: ' R. I. P. Cross River Rail '
> https://t.co/lGwm0LdNl3#qldpol #auspol@QLDLabor @LNPQLD @QldGreens #clusterfuk pic.twitter.com/vYLZu7HtS3

— Robert Dow (@Robert_Dow) February 1, 2017

[ozbob]

[Stillwater]

Queensland is due some money from the feds for transport infrastructure in the normal course of events.  It won't be for CRR.  The state government can bluster and protest, or it can pull together a package of works for submission to IA that would have a better chance of being funded -- SCL duplication, extension to Redbank Plains/Ripley, additional NGR trains etc.  It would be a jobs generator and could be pitched politically as an 'outer urban transport package' in the lead up to the nest state election.

What of the $800m the state has sitting around to fund CRR?  Can't that be redirected?  Queensland probably could go ahead with appointing a CRR Board, which might have to be even more innovative in seeing how CRR could be funded.

But agree, politics is at work here.  Amid the political point-scoring, there must be a bit of a win for the taxpayer and the long-suffering commuters.

This article may explain some of the background:

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/brisbane-cross-river-rail-delivery-authority-sparks-furore-between-council-and-state-20161031-gseltx.html

It would be interesting to see what is in Mr Jensen's 13-page submission.

From the Gold Coast Bulletin website of a few days ago:

Opposition infrastructure spokeswoman Deb Frecklington said it "says everything" about the Labor Government that it could not get its priority project off the ground.

"Annastacia Palaszczuk was either remarkably ill-informed or loose with the truth when she said in 2013 that Cross River Rail was shovel ready," she said.

"She still doesn't have a plan to fund it and hasn't even called for tenders.''

Infrastructure Minister Jackie Trad said the timetable developed by Building Queensland had been contingent on federal funding.

"These funding negotiations are ongoing and we anticipate a constructive and positive outcome in coming months," she said.

Ms Trad insisted Cross River Rail would be built and would be a boon for Brisbane.

See, more politics and shadow boxing -- no real concern for the commuter.

[#Metro]

Right, it's DEAD.

Take the plans and add the metro component to it so that both projects are combined.

TMR already has a head start with the BaT plans.

Go and do it, there is nothing to lose.


Resubmit the plans under " improved integration ".

[Stillwater]

BaT was devised by Campbell Newman and the LNP in full knowledge that it never would be built.

[ozbob]

It is all pointless.  Until they sort out the organisational failures nothing much will occur.

Probably a few more videos and glossy brochures.

The best chance now is Sunshine Coast Line upgrade, ext to Redbank Plains and ATP (ETCS 2 or better) for the suburban network.
Correct Mr Stillwater.

That's it!  They are not serious about Cross River Rail.  It has been a big fantasy ... changes at various political whims. 
It is a very compromised project now.  Do it right or forget it.

[#Metro]

BaT was devised by Campbell Newman and the LNP in full knowledge that it never would be built.

What, and you mean to say that Cross River Rail wasn't either? Same game both sides behind the scenes.

That's why Qld Government has only put ~ 15% of the funds necessary on the project. It might just cover the GST on materials

for the project.

It would not be too much work to modify the BaT plans to and build on it to include Brisbane City Council's metro component.

[Stillwater]

SEQ has been on the CRR merry-go-round for eight years!  Nothing.

Meanwhile, Melbourne's Metro project has been given the big tick by IA.

http://metrotunnel.vic.gov.au/

While Queensland political parties squabble over CRR and play the blame game, other states are positioning themselves to get a big slice of the fed's infrastructure pie.  Queensland faces losing out again.

Stop the politics around infrastructure, Ms Trad and Co.  Please.

[#Metro]

Bus reform must be pushed through - again Brisbane City Council politics (public ownership = politics, because it is run by politicians) might get in the way of that.

Fix up the bus network, cost neutral. Buses can better integrate with the train network generally and would be something that can more

generally support the rail network. That might get a few points in the bag/

My main concern about CRR is that is is not future compatible with the Trouts Road Corridor. That is a big black mark against the project, as it

is incredibly difficult to drill a hole in an existing operational rail tunnel underground to connect it. Connection is best done at time of construction.

#Cross River FAIL

[ozbob]

Bus reform must be pushed through - again Brisbane City Council politics (public ownership = politics, because it is run by politicians) might get in the way of that.

Fix up the bus network, cost neutral. Buses can better integrate with the train network generally and would be something that can more

generally support the rail network. That might get a few points in the bag/

My main concern about CRR is that is is not future compatible with the Trouts Road Corridor. That is a big black mark against the project, as it

is incredibly difficult to drill a hole in an existing operational rail tunnel underground to connect it. Connection is best done at time of construction.

#Cross River FAIL

They are spineless Mr Metro.  They lack the courage to do bus/network reform.  Alas, in the context of the present #railfail it is nigh on impossible to hope for network reform now.  Rooted !!

CRR is simply so compromised it would be a huge mistake now. 

Other states are progressing public transport.  Even Adelaide shames SEQ !

SEQ is locked in petty turf wars and political failure.  There will be no fed $ left as the other states have grabbed it essentially.

[ozbob]

4KQ News have followed up [ https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=2034.msg187373#msg187373 ]. 

Thanks for the interest.

[#Metro]

SEQ is locked in petty turf wars and political failure.  There will be no fed $ left as the other states have grabbed it essentially.

Bus reform is cost-neutral. Requires no new infrastructure. New Bus Network already done and published online.

Thank goodness for that!!

It is designed to be implementable and survive even the stupidest, most incompetent, broke government.

So, still small hope left!

[ozbob]

Cross River Rail is No1 infrastructure project for #Qld. Tit for tat between State & Fed Govt not helping anyone get it done. #RACQ #qldpol pic.twitter.com/kSv1Ij8JFL

— RACQ (@RACQOfficial) February 1, 2017

[verbatim9]

SEQ has been on the CRR merry-go-round for eight years!  Nothing.

Meanwhile, Melbourne's Metro project has been given the big tick by IA.

http://metrotunnel.vic.gov.au/

While Queensland political parties squabble over CRR and play the blame game, other states are positioning themselves to get a big slice of the fed's infrastructure pie.  Queensland faces losing out again.

Stop the politics around infrastructure, Ms Trad and Co.  Please.

The funny thing is about Melbourne Metro is that there will be no interchange at South Yarra. Is that being properly integrated into the network?

[ozbob]

Quit playing politics and move Cross River Rail forward #RACQ #qldpol pic.twitter.com/ZGnO9Fk6PU

— RACQ (@RACQOfficial) February 1, 2017

^ The fact is that CRR is tied up in politics.  The Federal Government, no doubt egged on by both BCCouncil and the LNP State Opposition has well demonstrated this again today.

I fear this the scenario from here.   The present ALP Government battles on for perhaps another 6 months.  PHON continues to gain support.

#qldvotes returns a LNP/PHON coalition Government.  At this point I think any notion of CRR will disappear and the ' metro ' even if flawed will be supported by State, Federal Governments and Council.

The only way now I think that CRR can be saved.  Is if the present ALP Government shows a true demonstration of committment  and snaps out of its malaise generally and starts construction!

[ozbob]

SEQ has been on the CRR merry-go-round for eight years!  Nothing.

Meanwhile, Melbourne's Metro project has been given the big tick by IA.

http://metrotunnel.vic.gov.au/

While Queensland political parties squabble over CRR and play the blame game, other states are positioning themselves to get a big slice of the fed's infrastructure pie.  Queensland faces losing out again.

Stop the politics around infrastructure, Ms Trad and Co.  Please.

The funny thing is about Melbourne Metro is that there will be no interchange at South Yarra. Is that being properly integrated into the network?

With respect to South Yarra - there are pros and cons.   Bottom line is though construction has started for Melbourne Metro tunnel works.

Here in banana-land we are still clutching at dreams ... after 10 years or so ..

[James]

I think we all might be surprised at how far the proposed BCC Metro actually gets off the ground, and how similar it remains to the current proposal. Definitely not home and hosed.

Very disappointed to see this happen to CRR though. The time for partisan politics was 5 years ago. CRR really needs to be built. And please no, don't bring back BaT. Anything but BaT.

[achiruel]

No BaT, but how about an MaT?

[ozbob]

No BaT, but how about an MaT?

See >> https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=12162.0

[#Metro]

MaT should be looked at. It will get BCC on board.

Truth is federal funding is not required, just demanded.

Entirely possible for govt to build it itself. Secret is out...


Sell or lease a power station / power grid and you'd have the funds.

That's what Sydney and Melbourne did. Unpopular, but does the job.

[verbatim9]

MaT should be looked at. It will get BCC on board.

Truth is federal funding is not required, just demanded.

Entirely possible for govt to build it itself. Secret is out...


Sell or lease a power station / power grid and you'd have the funds.

That's what Sydney and Melbourne did. Unpopular, but does the job.

Yep! Mat looks like a goer 😃

[ozbob]

Metro will need a real tunnel if it is to get to the required capacity (at least 30k pphpd) IMHO.

If they thought up the BaT once, only a matter of time before the MaT is trotted out!

[BrizCommuter]

The BrizCommuter word about ongoing pathetic tit-for-tat politics in Brisbane.
http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2017/02/qld-state-of-fail.html

[ozbob]

BrizCommuter:
QLD - The State of Fail
> https://t.co/T5h7jBIbY4#qldpol@QLDLabor @LNPQLD @QldGreens @AnnastaciaMP @TimNichollsMP pic.twitter.com/GRPU7BcswV

— Robert Dow (@Robert_Dow) February 2, 2017

[verbatim9]

Just estimating here, So 1.5Billion from Council  1Billion from State and 1Billion from Federal government from future Transport infrastructure payments and residual payments from Deregulation measures from the Harper Review. That's 3.5Billion! Something decent can be started with that?

[dancingmongoose]

Ron Swanson on the CRR debacle

[Stillwater]

The Premier and Mr Hinchliffe must now use the occasion of the public release of the Strachan Commission of Inquiry findings (and the government response to it) to spell out the revised agenda for public transport in SEQ.  CRR Mk III will take a further 18 months to two years to sort out.

The state government must end the mistruth of stating that all other augmentation and efficiency proposals for the SEQ rail network (SCL, extension to RP etc) depend upon CRR being built.  Simply, they don't.  The government's 'CRR first' stance is a political one designed to have the feds focus in on one option only for funding -- while Ms Trad runs around like a screeching banshee shouting SHOW US THE MONEY!

CRR is off the table for the time being.  Queensland can sulk and cry foul and still hold out for CRR money (in effect, no money forthcoming) to shame the feds and the LNP, or they can bite the bullet and put up some practical alternatives for fed funding.  To save face, they could announce 'urgent talks with the Commonwealth' to 'clarify the matter'.  They can even say that CRR remains a high priority, 'but where there are other projects that can be brought forward, we will do so to provide jobs for Queenslanders'.

When the Premier calls a media conference to announce the Strahan Inquiry stuff, she should not be surprised that the media will be all over her about CRR and the ongoing 'rail fail'.  The Premier will be saying 'here's what we are doing to fix the rail fail' while the media will be saying 'it is still failed because CRR is not going ahead'.

The govt has made a rod for its own back by spruiking CRR as hard as they have.

We don't need another 'Connecting SEQ' glossy brochure and video -- we need a list of relatively quick-start projects and actions/governance changes that takes us forward while CRR is sorted.  'Lets do nothing until the feds break on CRR while we embarrass the LNP' is an unwise option.

Get on with what can be done in the meantime.

[#Metro]

Time to merge with NSW again, it is that bad.

All the QLD Government seems to be doing is making consultants and video animators rich.

[tazzer9]

I think the feds have the attitude that the current CRR is a failure compared to what it should be.   

If the tunnels went to salisbury, we could avoid passenger trains using the dual gauge, we could possibly run 15 minutes off peak services to both beenleigh and the gold coast.

[Gazza]

Time to merge with NSW again, it is that bad.

All the QLD Government seems to be doing is making consultants and video animators rich.

You could write Daily Telegraph headlines!

[verbatim9]

9 News reported that all Three levels of Government need to co-operate and incorporate Metro to release funds. MAT here we come!

https://twitter.com/9NewsBrisbane/status/827069382010417153

[dancingmongoose]

9 News reported that all Three levels of Government need to co-operate and incorporate Metro to release funds. MAT here we come!

https://twitter.com/9NewsBrisbane/status/827069382010417153

That made me so angry. It does not need to integrate with the metro. It should not integrate with the metro. There should be no compromise at all to account for the vague possibility of the metro. RIP Brisbane rail network