RAIL - Back On Track Forum

Quote from: GonzoFonzie on April 20, 2024, 12:01:04 PM

Quote from: Cleveland Line on April 20, 2024, 08:18:08 AMA consultant to the Paris 2024 and Los Angeles 2028 Games says Brisbane's advantage from a 11-year lead time to the 2032 Olympics has been "eroded" by the lack of an independent delivery authority.

But Arcadis global cities director John Batten, visiting Brisbane on Friday, said the past three years had not been a total waste, and there was time to get it right.

The very same Arcadis that was commissioned by Archipelago to do a feasibility study for the Victoria Park proposal that was costed at $3.4 billion?

Explains why they not consultants for the 2032 Games.

I have never heard of an architect firm spending money on an engineering report for one of their own drawings, just for it to show up in Quirk's 60 day review as the preferred option.

From my reading of the Quirk report, what Archipelago is proposing and what the Quirk report was considering were not the same thing.

While Archipelago were proposing using more of less the entirety of Victoria Park to house all the main venues (something I disagree with due to the amount of parkland that would be used), what the Quirk report was talking about was a single stadium located around the periphery of the park, orientated in such a way to result in a minimal loss of parkland. While the report itself didn't seem to specify the exact location (not that I can remember at least), what was being implied in reporting by the Brisbane Times suggested it was the site of the current Victoria Park Function Centre and its associated carpark - a site that was going to remain largely the same as currently under the BCC Victoria Park Vision, and one that is largely occupied by bitumen and grass carparking.

While this location does position it a little far from Exhibition Station (a bit further than Suncorp to Milton, about equivalent to Suncorp to Roma Street) it would be fairly well located to be serviced by the busway/BERT.

Queensland Parliament

https://documents.parliament.qld.gov.au/tableOffice/questionsAnswers/2024/344-2024.pdf

Question on Notice
No. 344
Asked on 21 March 2024

MR D JANETZKI asked the Minister for State Development and Infrastructure,
Minister for Industrial Relations and Minister for Racing (HON G GRACE) –

QUESTION:

With reference to the 2032 Olympic and Paralympic Games—
Will the Minister advise (reported separately by financial year from 2021-22 to
2023-24 to date), how much has the State Government spent on (a) external consulting
services, (b) external legal services, (c) external auditing services and (d) external
advice (i.e. Deloitte report and Quirk review)?

Answer

Expenditure on categories requested over the periods from the time the 2032 Olympic
and Paralympic Games were awarded to Brisbane in July 2021 until 29 February 2024
is as follows:

(a) External Consulting Services (excluding GST):
. 2021-22: $148,834
. 2022-23: $1,355,249
. 2023-24: $787,409.

(b) External Legal Services (excluding GST):
. 2021-22: $0
. 2022-23: $250,824
. 2023-24: $660,455.

(c) External Auditing Services (excluding GST):
. 2021-22: $6,593
. 2022-23: $136,647
. 2023-24: $231,143.

(d) External Advice (excluding GST):
. 2021-22 $0
. 2022-23 $716,652
. 2023-24 $125,621.

Brisbanetimes --> Victoria Park could save us $1.1b, so it deserves better than premier's short shrift $

QuoteA witness called to last week's Senate inquiry into Olympic Games preparedness may well have blown up the state government's rationale for its contentious stadium selection for Brisbane 2032.

Archipelago founding director Peter Edwards told the inquiry three Olympic venues – a main stadium of between 60,000 and 80,000 seats, an inner-city arena and a permanent aquatic centre – could be built at Victoria Park for $3.4 billion.

It would result in 60 hectares of green space, Edwards said, which would be an improvement on the site's 56 hectares of available green space (more on that later).  ...

Quote from: ozbob on April 18, 2024, 09:07:55 AMThe transcript for the Senate Inquiry 'Australia's preparedness to host Commonwealth, Olympic and Paralympic Games' in Brisbane 17th May 2024 will appear here when available >

https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Senate/Rural_and_Regional_Affairs_and_Transport/PreparednessforGames/Public_Hearings

Still not published ... 

https://brisbanedevelopment.com/we-can-do-better-rating-proposed-olympic-sites-why-northshore-is-the-winner/

Interesting proposal. Gets the Doomben line duplicated and extended to Hamilton so it might actually get some use. Can also help make a case for a BERT route via Kingsford Smith Drive. And easy enough to put a CityCat terminal between Northshore and Bretts Wharf for event day services. Connectable to all three major modes.

^ thanks.

https://x.com/ozbob13/status/1782984275975094687

Yeah Northshore I wouldnt mind, and it would mean the Doomben line could function a bit like the Olympic Park loop in Sydney....Useful during special events, with a baseline of residents using it on non event days.
Ticks the box too in terms of having space to build easily, and having dining nearby.
Main drawbacks are not owning the land, and low flood risks on some parts of the site.

I don't like this idea for the simple reason that Northshore Hamilton is too far away from the CBD to be easily accessible. I can't see any extension of the Doomben Line across to Hamilton happening - we'll be lucky to get the train to Caloundra at this point, and even then, from the Queen Street Mall it is more or less a dead heat between getting to Doomben vs getting to QSAC, and the distance out to QSAC is one of the many issues that venue has.

At this point, either rebuild the Gabba in place or put a new stadium at Victoria Park - these are really the only two options that make sense.

Are these AI generated images?

Text on the front of the train doesn't make sense.

Everyone on the right platform has their hands in the air.

Why is the main stadium surrounded by craters?

Relocate PAH to current Gabba site. Build new stadium at PAH site. Cost of new hospital $2-2.5B (going off Adelaide Hospital). Stadium build $1-1.5B. Total $4B. Hospital in a great location still, also near Mater and Children Hospital. Stadium has prime public transport hub (rail, metro etc.). Not one inch of Victoria Park needed (people who want parklands see this as a win). New hospital (no one argues against new hospitals) and you get a great location for sporting events (win-win). Downsides - Adelaide Hospital took 6-years to build, so might be pushing it timewise and you'd be knocking down a practically good hospital (even if getting a new one). 

Hard no. There's also a bunch of research institutions and of course the medical school up there, and of course a bunch of other specialists in the general health cluster around there.

Also, if both sites are swapping, how do you stage it?

Quote from: Gazza on April 24, 2024, 17:10:49 PMHard no. There's also a bunch of research institutions and of course the medical school up there, and of course a bunch of other specialists in the general health cluster around there.

Also, if both sites are swapping, how do you stage it?

Agree. A bucketload of money has been sunk into the biosciences precinct surrounding the PA Hospital and the facilities all work well being co-located and within walking distance of UQ.

The stadium concept in Auckland looks amazing. Build something like that here in Brisbane. We need something iconic with lasting legacy. 🏅🥈

I still like the Victoria Park idea. It's walkable from most places around the City and Valley and you can also build a stadium station if need be at Vic Park

As for Brisbane live I would like it to replace the Gabba stadium.

Start building at Vic Park next year. Sporting events move to Vic Park late 2028 early 29. Then demolish the Gabba and build a Bne live on that site with capacity of 24,000 max. Design could be similar to the Disney Concert Hall in Los Angeles.

Walt Disney Concert Hall
+1 323-850-2000
https://g.co/kgs/o4zGuUj

Also shared with:

Photos
https://g.co/kgs/gBZUR1p

Something stunning and iconic

Quote from: #Metro on April 24, 2024, 15:50:57 PMAre these AI generated images?

Text on the front of the train doesn't make sense.

Everyone on the right platform has their hands in the air.

Why is the main stadium surrounded by craters?

Yeah it's pretty gross. Looks unprofessional. I have come to expect the standard of the brain farts that come out of Brisbane Development to be pretty low though.

That being said, the Northshore stadium idea has some merit. But like all the other proposals it certainly has its downsides. More and more I think that if anything substantial were to be done to increase frequency on Doomben/Hamilton branch beyond 4tph, you'd need to rethink Eagle Junction layout

Quote from: timh on April 24, 2024, 22:58:55 PMMore and more I think that if anything substantial were to be done to increase frequency on Doomben/Hamilton branch beyond 4tph, you'd need to rethink Eagle Junction layout

How feasible would it be to have temporary arrangements by which Shorncliffe trains switched to the mains off peak on event days so there would be more room on the suburbans for Northshore trains?

Alternatively, on event days you could run Shorncliffe trains only as a shuttle to Northgate and have Caboolture/Sunshine Coast/Redcliffe trains stop at Nundah and Toombul and then Northshore trains would only have to cross with Airport trains, so you could probably get up to about 12tph, which is moving about 12,000 people per hour, which might be enough, given you would also have lots of buses and ferries moving people from there.

I love the Northshore Hamilton site much more than Vic Park.

Activating that riverfront and getting rid of all that industrial crap that's there currently is a no-brainer.

Doomben line extension would also be a great rail legacy. I wonder if there's a way to get a Metro (BERT) line  along Kingsford Smith Dr to service the stadium. It could go on to the airport as well!

My personal opinion is that they will not have the time nor the manpower to build a new train or LRT line to serve a new stadium at Hamilton Northshore.

Vic Park is still the best option for walkability and Public Transport. No other option provides walkability to hotels, cafes, eateries, bars and retail like Vic Park.

Active transport can also be upgraded with a segregated link from Breakfast Creek road to Vic Park for both pedestrians and cyclists. Athletes could then have the option of using eMobility as well as regular bikes to get to and from Vic Park. That would be unique for Brisbane and a great way to market the Olympics as from a sustainable and Green perspective.

Wasn't that one of the aims?

I would have thought a 1.5km extension could be turned around fairly quickly.

One attractive thing about the Vic Park proposal is you could in principle add rail access by adding a train station at Spring Hill.

No new rail line required, just the station and perhaps pedestrian access. Services would plug directly into CRR.

Quote from: ozbob on April 23, 2024, 03:10:14 AMQueensland Parliament

https://documents.parliament.qld.gov.au/tableOffice/questionsAnswers/2024/344-2024.pdf

Question on Notice
No. 344
Asked on 21 March 2024

MR D JANETZKI asked the Minister for State Development and Infrastructure,
Minister for Industrial Relations and Minister for Racing (HON G GRACE) –

QUESTION:

With reference to the 2032 Olympic and Paralympic Games—
Will the Minister advise (reported separately by financial year from 2021-22 to
2023-24 to date), how much has the State Government spent on (a) external consulting
services, (b) external legal services, (c) external auditing services and (d) external
advice (i.e. Deloitte report and Quirk review)?

Answer

Expenditure on categories requested over the periods from the time the 2032 Olympic
and Paralympic Games were awarded to Brisbane in July 2021 until 29 February 2024
is as follows:

(a) External Consulting Services (excluding GST):
. 2021-22: $148,834
. 2022-23: $1,355,249
. 2023-24: $787,409.

(b) External Legal Services (excluding GST):
. 2021-22: $0
. 2022-23: $250,824
. 2023-24: $660,455.

(c) External Auditing Services (excluding GST):
. 2021-22: $6,593
. 2022-23: $136,647
. 2023-24: $231,143.

(d) External Advice (excluding GST):
. 2021-22 $0
. 2022-23 $716,652
. 2023-24 $125,621.

^

Couriermail --> Brisbane 2032: $4.5m spent on consulting, outsourcing $

QuoteTaxpayers have forked out nearly $4.5m in the past three years for the Queensland government to outsource work on the 2032 Olympic and Paralympic Games, new data has revealed.

And this does not include the full cost of the 60-day independent infrastructure review run by former lord mayor Graham Quirk, whose key recommendation to build a new stadium at Victoria Park was ultimately kiboshed by the state government's shadow review.

State Development and Infrastructure Minister Grace Grace, in a question on notice, revealed the state government had spent a total of $4.42m hiring external consultants, lawyers, auditors and advisers to work on the 2032 Games since mid-2021.  ...

https://x.com/ozbob13/status/1783537669366256067

I find the 'walkability' of the Vic Park proposal overstated. It's at best an over 15min walk to Valley. Sure Spring Hill is closer, but that's more residential. It's not a proper entertainment precinct. This will further incentivise development of park lands...

https://x.com/9NewsQueensland/status/1784144225031909551

This piece mentions Hamilton Northshore, and the Doomben railway line.

I love how this got broadcast on the news, craters and all. 

It would make sense to have the athletes village near the stadium.

Still prefer the Victoria Park option though. Its a lot closer and better connected.

Quote from: ozbob on April 24, 2024, 02:50:06 AM

Quote from: ozbob on April 18, 2024, 09:07:55 AMThe transcript for the Senate Inquiry 'Australia's preparedness to host Commonwealth, Olympic and Paralympic Games' in Brisbane 17th May 2024 will appear here when available >

https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Senate/Rural_and_Regional_Affairs_and_Transport/PreparednessforGames/Public_Hearings

Still not published ... 

Now published

PDF > https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/download/committees/commsen/27846/toc_pdf/Rural%20and%20Regional%20Affairs%20and%20Transport%20References%20Committee_2024_04_17.pdf;fileType=application%2Fpdf#search=%22committees/commsen/27846/0000%22

ABC News --> Design and planning bodies lobby government for some semblance of oversight of 2032 Brisbane Olympic Games

QuoteAustralia's peak design and planning bodies say they want oversight over the 2032 Olympic Games before it's "too late" to make wise planning decisions.

The nation's top architecture, landscape, planning, and design institutes are lobbying the government to create a Design and Coordination Unit for the Brisbane Games.

The calls come after heated disagreements at all levels of government over the design and planning of the Gabba Stadium, the Redland Whitewater Centre, and other Olympic venues.

The group is made up of the Design Institute of Australia, Planning Institute of Australia, Australian Institute of Architects, and the Australian Institute of Landscape Architecture. ...

https://x.com/ozbob13/status/1786150744477032719

Brisbanetimes --> Without extra lead time, IOC would be 'pretty nervous' about Brisbane 2032 $

QuoteInternational Olympic Committee president Thomas Bach says the organisation would have been "pretty nervous" about Brisbane's preparations for the 2032 Games had the city been given hosting rights under the previous selection process.

Speaking from the IOC's Switzerland headquarters on Friday night (AEST), Bach suggested Brisbane's 11-year runway to hosting the Games had saved the city's blushes.

"[The previous host selection model would have selected] Brisbane seven years before," he said.

"Then, three years in means four years before the Games, so then we would be pretty nervous." ...

Couriermail --> Brisbane 2032 poll: Queenslanders lose faith in delivery of promised benefits $

QuoteConfidence in the state's ability to deliver the 2032 Olympic Games has plunged under Premier Steven Miles, as new polling reveals one in two Queenslanders fear promised benefits will not be delivered.

YouGov polling for The Sunday Mail reveals declining confidence that the state government is best placed to deliver the 2032 Olympic and Paralympic Games on time and budget.

The polling of 1092 voters between April 9 and 17 revealed just 14 per cent thought the government was best at handling the Games, down from 21 per cent in October under then-premier Annastacia Palaszczuk.

Opposition Leader David Crisafulli is now considered better at handling the event, with his support rising from 21 per cent in October to 30 per cent in April. ...

https://x.com/ozbob13/status/1786797801781035282

Couriermail --> Analysis: Labor has dropped the Brisbane 2032 baton in its shambolic run to the line $

QuoteThree years since Brisbane won the once-ever Olympic Games opportunity there's little to show for it, and it's not going to get better quickly.

We were promised landmark transport infrastructure upgrades, a transformation of the inner city, and sports venue upgrades fit for an Olympic host city. Now, two years of Annastacia Palaszczuk's style over substance has left Queenslanders unconfident that we'll be able to pull this show off – and it didn't have to come to this. ...

https://x.com/ozbob13/status/1786799353820229822

Couriermail --> Millions 'down the drain' in govt's cancelled bid to relocate school for 2032 Brisbane Games $

QuoteTaxpayers have forked out nearly $3 million for the state government to prepare – then ditch – a proposal to controversially relocate a Brisbane primary school for the 2032 Olympic and Paralympic Games.

Education Minister Di Farmer, in a question on notice, revealed the government had spent $2.77 million on the proposed relocation of East Brisbane State School.

Just $10,000 of that was not spent on contractors.

The other $2.76 million went towards consultants, town planning, property advisers and the development of a detailed business case among other reports — though the specific breakdown has not yet been provided by the government. ...

I cannot see any transport infrastructure coming out of this.

None.

If they don't know where the stadium is, how can they put transport to it?

If they use QSAC it will just be shuttle buses, a rerun of 1982 plus busway which wasn't around then.

If they use the Gabba, it already has a busway and CRR will be open by then, so nothing new required there really.

If they use Suncorp Stadium then it already has rail and a bus interchange.

Victoria Park, choosing this option you have two busway stations plus option for an infill Spring Hill station.

Doomben, short rail extension and duplication but the flat junction at EJ would need to be looked at if you want high volume.

Wildcard is UQ Lakes. In principle you could put a Stadium on UQ land no rail but excellent bus and ferry access.

All in all, none of the locations would seem to require much effort with the exception of say the Doomben/Portside option.

Couriermail --> QSAC a white knight not a white elephant says Australian Olympic boss $

QuoteThe Brisbane 2032 stadium conundrum continues to grow as the Australian Olympic boss hits back at critics, while backing the government's decision to upgrade the Games' most controversial stadium.

Australia's Olympic president Ian Chesterman has taken aim at critics of the Brisbane 2032 Games and thrown his support behind its most controversial venue.

Chesterman has strongly endorsed the decision by the Queensland Government to upgrade the antiquated QSAC venue at Mt Gravatt as the home of athletics at the Games.

The venue has essentially been a white elephant since hosting the opening ceremony and the athletics in the 1982 Commonwealth Games but is scheduled for a major refurbishment if the wishes of the Queensland Government are granted.

"We support the redevelopment of QSAC, subject to the feasibility and costing work currently underway,'' Chesterman said in a statement. ...

https://x.com/9NewsQueensland/status/1787235063735734340

Quote from: #Metro on May 05, 2024, 09:17:12 AMI cannot see any transport infrastructure coming out of this.

None.

If they don't know where the stadium is, how can they put transport to it?

If they use QSAC it will just be shuttle buses, a rerun of 1982 plus busway which wasn't around then.

If they use the Gabba, it already has a busway and CRR will be open by then, so nothing new required there really.

If they use Suncorp Stadium then it already has rail and a bus interchange.

Victoria Park, choosing this option you have two busway stations plus option for an infill Spring Hill station.

Doomben, short rail extension and duplication but the flat junction at EJ would need to be looked at if you want high volume.

Wildcard is UQ Lakes. In principle you could put a Stadium on UQ land no rail but excellent bus and ferry access.

All in all, none of the locations would seem to require much effort with the exception of say the Doomben/Portside option.

At this point, I'd take the Doomben line extension in a heartbeat!

Quote from: #Metro on May 05, 2024, 09:17:12 AMVictoria Park, choosing this option you have two busway stations plus option for an infill Spring Hill station.

If they do go with the option of Victoria Park, I don't see them building an infill station - I think they would just improve pedestrian access to the nearby Exhibition Station

No much of Vic Park is actually in the catchment of Exhibition station though:

^^ No but the proposed locations of the Olympic venues, based on the Archipelago proposal, would either sit inside that radius or, in the case of the main stadium, be JUST outside it (the entrance plaza might just sit inside the circle).

Quote from: nathandavid88 on May 07, 2024, 17:07:53 PM^^ No but the proposed locations of the Olympic venues, based on the Archipelago proposal, would either sit inside that radius or, in the case of the main stadium, be JUST outside it (the entrance plaza might just sit inside the circle).

You shouldn't take the Archipelago proposal to mean anything though. It was a complete cold call of a proposal that no one asked for. I seriously doubt the costings they've provided too.

From what we've ascertained, the Quirk review proposed the stadium to be more where the current function centre is, which is far outside the catchment of Ekka station

Or the best Victoria Park location is inside the circle next to Bowen Bridge Rd.

If they can build over ICB and rail in Archipelago plan then next to Bowen Bridge Rd if equally doable.

More so because ICB is only 6 lanes not 9-10.

Couriermail --> Editorial: Focus of 2032 must on better outcomes $

QuoteNeither of the Olympic bosses who have suggested a QSAC upgrade live in Brisbane, so do not have an interest in proper legacy outcomes for the city from the 2032 Games, writes the editor.

Claiming that the Premier's plan to upgrade the Queensland Sports and Athletics Centre is the best option for the 2032 Brisbane Olympic and Paralympic Games because it will deliver a legacy for track and field is like saying you're demolishing your pool and building a brand new one so the kids can have a better swim.

And yet that is exactly what Australian Olympic Committee president Ian Chesterman is saying in explaining his support for the plan to demolish the 48,000-seat stadium at Nathan so a new venue can be built there that in Games mode will seat 40,000 (the smallest since Amsterdam in 1928), and just 14,000 after the closing ceremony. ...

https://x.com/ozbob13/status/1787863597982625816