RAIL - Back On Track Forum

Sunshine Coast News --> State government denies it sought advice on cancelling 2032 Olympics

QuoteThe head of Brisbane 2032 says Queensland is getting on with Olympic preparations after the state government was forced to deny it sought advice on cancelling the Games.

Andrew Liveris' show of faith comes after the Labor government on Monday ignored a key recommendation of a Games infrastructure review to build a new $3.4 billion stadium at inner-city Victoria Park. ...

As per Graces Graces statement and as I suspected another 500 million to extend the Bne Metro to QEII.

Might as well build it in Vic Park.  Having it in Vic Park also allows people to walk between venues. RNA Equestrian, Athletics and Swimming.  This would be much more sustainable and easier to manage.

People can also walk to the City and Valley venues.  It's a better choice all round and we also get a tier one stadium for the future

Couriermail --> Grace Grace makes extraordinary admission over QSAC's mass transport funding for Olympics $

QuoteState Development Minister Grace Grace has admitted the government has not yet factored in the cost of mass public transport upgrades to the Queensland Sport and Athletics Centre in its budget.

Ms Grace said the amount set aside was something the state government has to consider following its proposal to build a $1.6bn, 40-000-seat stadium at the Nathan QSAC site.

"It's like the transport networks on the Sunshine Coast, it's like the various transport networks that we are looking at and we'll work through all of those issues... but the legacy there will be once it's done, it's there and it will be used," Ms Grace said.

"At this stage, we haven't funded it, but of course, public transport is something we need to fund in line with budgets, and we will certainly be looking at that going forward." ...

 

Quote from: verbatim9 on March 20, 2024, 12:25:02 PMAs per Graces Graces statement and as I suspected another 500 million to extend the Bne Metro to QEII.

Might as well build it in Vic Park.  Having it in Vic Park also allows people to walk between venues. RNA Equestrian, Athletics and Swimming.  This would be much more sustainable and easier to manage.

People can also walk to the City and Valley venues.  It's a better choice all round and we also get a tier one stadium for the future

And that's just a capital cost for metro extension.

The operational costs for running QSAC as Olympics venue will be much larger as there's nothing (or very little) there already to support it - transport, security, catering, amenities etc etc. The govt plan and costs so far seem to only account for building temporary seating.

The smaller capacity then reduces ticket sale revenue - for the marquee sport that probably attracts the highest prices.

And reduced ticket sales then hit your economic benefits as they largely come from tourism - less spectators mean less visitors during Games and less 'induced' to return after (in numbers alone not even then considering the effect the poor QSAC experience would have on encouraging people to visit again).

No way when all these are considered is QSAC actually a cheaper option.

It's only a cheaper option on paper between now and October 2024, which is what this all comes down to.

Quote from: verbatim9 on March 20, 2024, 12:25:02 PMAs per Graces Graces statement and as I suspected another 500 million to extend the Bne Metro to QEII.

Might as well build it in Vic Park.  Having it in Vic Park also allows people to walk between venues. RNA Equestrian, Athletics and Swimming.  This would be much more sustainable and easier to manage.

People can also walk to the City and Valley venues.  It's a better choice all round and we also get a tier one stadium for the future

https://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/qld-politics/grace-grace-makes-extraordinary-admission-over-qsacs-mass-transport-funding-for-olympics/news-story/ff23b4836cf2fbf6f32b4ef9e36a2998

Mr Schrinner expressed his concerns over the lack of transport infrastructure funding associated with the QSAC proposal, saying the government would need to invest at least $400-500 million on expanding the Brisbane metro to get patrons to and from the stadium.

Premier Steven Miles fended off a savage grilling in Parliament today over claims cabinet sought advice on whether to cancel the Olympic Games.  Check out today's Hansard after 2pm.

We will interrupt this sh%t show for the  ... 1982 Commonwealth Games!!!   

https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/brisbane-news-live-lions-disappointed-stadium-ruled-out-so-fast-brisbane-service-helping-young-break-cycle-of-abuse-20240319-p5fdmn.html?post=p55rw4#p55rw4

QuoteAt least $400m needed for transport: Lord mayor crunches the numbers on QSAC

Brisbane's re-elected lord mayor has questioned the state government's decision to choose the Queensland Sport and Athletics Centre (formerly QEII stadium) in Nathan as its main Olympic venue.

Standing in Victoria Park this morning, Adrian Schrinner said: "The first question that needs to be asked is: 'How do we get people to and from QSAC?'"

The centre neighbours Mount Gravatt Cemetery and Griffith University's Nathan Campus.

"The [state] government hasn't put any funding aside to provide transport options for QSAC," Schrinner said.

He said about $400 million to $500 million would need to be spent to provide adequate transport in and out of QSAC, in addition to the $1.6 billion needed to refurbish the stadium for the Games. ...

Quote from: ozbob on March 20, 2024, 13:32:16 PMPremier Steven Miles fended off a savage grilling in Parliament today over claims cabinet sought advice on whether to cancel the Olympic Games.  Check out today's Hansard after 2pm.

Hansard > https://documents.parliament.qld.gov.au/events/han/2024/2024_03_20_DAILY.pdf

Couriermail --> David Crisafulli must front up and tell Queenslanders his plan for the Brisbane Olympics $

QuoteAs the state government excels at wasting even more time getting on with building what we need for the 2032 Olympic and Paralympic Games, the response of Opposition Leader David Crisafulli is baffling.

With Premier Steven Miles saying IOC heavyweight John Coates made me do it – "it" being ignoring the sensible findings of Graham Quirk's 60-day review (at taxpayers' expense) and pushing on with renovating the tired Queensland Sport and Athletics Centre (QSAC) – you'd think Mr Crisafulli would pounce. ...

Quote from: timh on March 19, 2024, 17:20:44 PM

Quote from: Jonno on March 19, 2024, 17:05:38 PMsurely it can't cost 3.4B

It definitely could. Look at the picture where you've put it. How does the busway at RBWH connect to Herston? You are going to be building ON TOP of the inner city bypass. HUGE logistical and engineering challenges to begin with, regardless of the increasing costs of labour and materials, plus the fitout of a stadium for world class productions in 2032. You're talking hundreds of millions in live technical Production costs alone

updated drawings to reflect that it would see  busway connection as grade separated ROW.

Quoteupdated drawings to reflect that you connect busway as grade separated ROW.

How does moving the busway slightly to the right result in grade separation?

ABC News --> Brisbane Lord Mayor Adrian Schrinner says state government should pay for transport to new Olympic stadium

QuoteIn short: Adrian Schrinner said the state government will have to pay to connect the suburban athletics track to existing public transport.
 
He said he would prefer a new stadium be built for the Games.

What's next? Brisbane 2032 President Andrew Liveris says plans for the games will continue to be assessed over time. ..

Legislative Assembly Hansard 1982  pages 1202-3

https://documents.parliament.qld.gov.au/events/han/1982/1982_10_12.pdf

Milton Station better get a spruce-up for The Games. With Suncorp Stadium now to be the venue for the opening and closing ceremonies (at least that is the situation today), where will the elite athletes of the world assemble to enter the stadium? Down Caxton Street?

Quote from: Gazza on March 20, 2024, 15:15:45 PM

Quoteupdated drawings to reflect that you connect busway as grade separated ROW.

How does moving the busway slightly to the right result in grade separation?

You would ramp up from Herston Station and avoid the current intersection. You would get rid of Gilchrist Ave too.

With all the distraction of possible venue locations going on, has anyone stopped to ask some basic questions first. Having no engineer on the Sport Venue Report 2024 report board, it means we would need to have the following answered first, before making further decisions.

1. Do you want two separate or one multi-use venue?
2. Do you want a 'stadium' or 'entertainment centre', or both?
3. Do you want a circular stadium based off the Gabba for cricket & AFL, rectangular like Suncorp Stadium, or something similar to the Brisbane Live Roma Street concept where its nether shape?
4. What is desired size/height/land usage of new venue?
5. What limit of public space is willing to be compromised?
 
Brisbane Live Arena - ASM Global (formally AEG Odgen aka Harvey Lister) are a private entity that currently owns the entertainment centre at Boondal. They went with Roma Street despite no report or findings about feasibility ever been made public, or basic understanding of civil engineering.

The Gabba (Brisbane Cricket Ground) - owned and managed by the QLD Government, whose main events come from the AFL and cricket games. Therefore Cricket Australia and the AFL bodies are the main stakeholders that use the ground. Did these two bodies lobby the QLD Government for a new stadium?

Recap of problem: two existing venues in Brisbane owned by two different entities each want a new venue built.

Recap of solution (desirable): Regardless where the Brisbane Live Arena mkII is going to be placed, ASM Global group should pay for and inherit 100% of the costs and risk of building their own new arena. For the Gabba replacement, the QLD Government with Federal funding will fund majority with the rest coming from the cricket and AFL bodies (around 40% or so). 

Quote2. Do you want a 'stadium' or 'entertainment centre', or both?

Sounds like we are getting both, and to be honest that is the norm.

Eg in Adelaide you have Adelaide Oval and the Adelaide Entertainment Center
In Perth you have Optus Stadium and Perth Arena
In Melbourne you have the MCG and Rod Laver Arena

We have just seen the very flawed way this state government goes about planning and implementing a major infrastructure project:

1. it is driven by politics (an eye on electoral advantage)
2. the systems set up to advise government are circumvented and ignored (the promised delivery authority that did not get established from the outset and the so-called 'independent review' (Graham Quirk) overruled
3. cost estimation is a guess and a prayer (Yes, the Nathan Complex will cost $1.6 billion, but the so-called 'legacy' benefit will disappear when the seats are pulled out after the Games AND it will require about $400m-$500m in transport fixes not factored into the Games budget, but hidden away in other budget allocations.) In fact, Nathan will cost $2 billion. PLUS for Gabba upgrade, PLUS for Suncorp Stadium upgrade. So we can see how Graham Quirk came up with his Victoria Park alternative (with already paid for transport connections running by).

How many other major projects are being planned this way?

I can only imagine what the Games would be like held in Perth.

Would be very straightforward I would think.

Quote from: #Metro on March 20, 2024, 19:44:14 PMI can only imagine what the Games would be like held in Perth.

Would be very straightforward I would think.

No question, Perth would have been a better choice.

Quote from: GonzoFonzie on March 20, 2024, 16:48:17 PMWith all the distraction of possible venue locations going on, has anyone stopped to ask some basic questions first. Having no engineer on the Sport Venue Report 2024 report board, it means we would need to have the following answered first, before making further decisions.

1. Do you want two separate or one multi-use venue?
2. Do you want a 'stadium' or 'entertainment centre', or both?
3. Do you want a circular stadium based off the Gabba for cricket & AFL, rectangular like Suncorp Stadium, or something similar to the Brisbane Live Roma Street concept where its nether shape?
4. What is desired size/height/land usage of new venue?
5. What limit of public space is willing to be compromised?
 
Brisbane Live Arena - ASM Global (formally AEG Odgen aka Harvey Lister) are a private entity that currently owns the entertainment centre at Boondal. They went with Roma Street despite no report or findings about feasibility ever been made public, or basic understanding of civil engineering.

The Gabba (Brisbane Cricket Ground) - owned and managed by the QLD Government, whose main events come from the AFL and cricket games. Therefore Cricket Australia and the AFL bodies are the main stakeholders that use the ground. Did these two bodies lobby the QLD Government for a new stadium?

Recap of problem: two existing venues in Brisbane owned by two different entities each want a new venue built.

Recap of solution (desirable): Regardless where the Brisbane Live Arena mkII is going to be placed, ASM Global group should pay for and inherit 100% of the costs and risk of building their own new arena. For the Gabba replacement, the QLD Government with Federal funding will fund majority with the rest coming from the cricket and AFL bodies (around 40% or so). 

I could not agree with this post more.

If the long term beneficiaries of a new stadium is the private sector (professional sports teams, concert organisers, etc), then they should be the ones footing the majority of the bill.

A fully taxpayer funded stadium is unconscionable.

Couriermail --> 'Poor location': No funding for transport to Premier's chosen Olympics stadium $

QuoteImproving public transport to the Queensland Sport and Athletics Centre would cost at least $400m amid new revelations the state government has little idea how it would be funded.

State Development Minister Grace Grace revealed transport to the 2032 athletics stadium at QSAC – selected by Premier Steven Miles despite a review finding it "does not represent value for money" – had not been investigated or costed.

Brisbane Lord Mayor Adrian Schrinner said the state government would have to spend at least $400m on transport infrastructure if it was to turn QSAC into an Olympic venue.

The Lord Mayor said the state was yet to consider transport options for the QSAC proposal, which he said would require a metro station and extended bus services at an estimated cost of between $400-$500m. ...

... Public transport advocate Robert Dow of Rail Back on Track said QSAC was in a "poor location" with no high-capacity transport.

"Local governments and the community got behind the Olympics with the implicit understanding that we were going to get a visionary infrastructure boost to support the growth of southeast Queensland," he said.

"So far all we have seen is cutbacks.

"We're not even getting rail to Maroochydore after decades of government procrastination, and little else is on the table either."

Couriermail --> Visionless Premier Steven Miles has no plans to forge a Games legacy, just survive until October $

QuoteBrisbane's Olympic flame is flickering like a tea light candle while Premier Steven Miles' tired line is taking Queenslanders for mugs, writes State Political Editor Hayden Johnson. ,,,

... Buses are likely the solution to move 40,000 people to and from QSAC when the athletics finals finish.

Could the state stomach helping the council fund a $600m extension to Brisbane Metro or would it instead repeat the partisan bickering that saw it avoid the $1.4bn project the first time?

Our Olympic flame is flickering like a tea light candle.

Couriermail --> 'Sabotage Qld's Olympic success': Stadium bungle cripples medal hopes $

QuoteThe gold medal dreams of Queensland's Olympians could be destroyed by the demolition of their $10m state-of-the-art training centre as part of a plan to blow $1.6bn upgrading the Queensland Sport and Athletics Centre.

Major sport stars have led a chorus of warnings that our Olympic medal chances would be crippled if Premier Steven Miles pushed forward with the QSAC option displacing the Queensland Academy of Sport - which has its flagship training facility located in one of the grandstands

There are as yet no plans in place to accommodate the athletes.

Four-time Olympian Cate Campbell said the demolition of a much-touted high performance centre would sabotage Queensland's success at the Brisbane Olympics.

Campbell echoed fellow Olympic Gold Medallist Glynis Nunn who said athletes would be forced to train interstate ahead of the Games.

Former QAS chair Renita Garard, who quit the post in February, said even just a few months of disruption at the training centre could inhibit athletes' ability to win medals at the 2032 Games. ...

Even for a Couriermail poll this is significant.  I think the Miles' Government is finished.
I expect the LNP will eventually adopt the ' Quirk Review ' holus bolus.



https://x.com/ozbob13/status/1770500823661130152?s=20

Brisbanetimes --> 'A check-up from the neck up': How stadium stoush might seem outside Brisbane $

QuoteThe urban designer who first proposed a stadium for Victoria Park has lamented Premier Steven Miles' decision to reject the concept.

In his first act as premier, Miles announced a 60-day review of Games venues after sustained criticism of predecessor Annastacia Palaszczuk's captain's call to rebuild the Gabba cricket and AFL stadium.

Labor premier Miles appointed former LNP Brisbane lord mayor Graham Quirk to conduct the review in January. That review came back on Monday morning, with a recommendation for a new, $3.4 billion stadium at Victoria Park, which would replace the Gabba as Brisbane's major oval stadium post-Games.

Archipelago founding director Peter Edwards said, for four hours on Monday, the city thought it had seen a "moment of leadership" from Queensland's new premier, only to see that optimism disappear just after lunchtime when Miles rejected the proposal.

Instead, Miles said his government would repurpose the Queensland Sport and Athletics Centre, the host venue of the 1982 Commonwealth Games, into a 40,000-seat temporary stadium that would mostly be disassembled after the Olympics. ...

https://x.com/9NewsQueensland/status/1770361414105874718?s=20

https://x.com/7NewsBrisbane/status/1770372410208108968?s=20

 

Members poll > https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=15581.0

I can't decide which is a worse plan:
1) Spending 1.6 billion on QSAC
2) Destroying Victoria Park with a new stadium

Where would you walk to to have drink after watching a match at a Victoria Park stadium? RBWH? QUT Kelvin Grove campus?
VP is just not an entertainment precinct, and if you turn it into one, you've destroyed the VP greenspace which has only *just* been reclaimed.

Can we not just build the new stadium on top of the Woolloongabba CRR station?

If Mr Miles is genuine in saying that he wants to 'save' around one billion dollars on providing Olympic Games facilities because he wants to spend that money on hospitals and social housing, he should disclose the extra hospital wings and housing estates he has in mind ... and the plans to build them.

If he can't, we can assume his position is one designed to make he and his government look good in the lead up to a state election later this year. In other words, Mr Miles is not focused on 2032 and legacy projects that could benefit Queenslanders at that time. His focus is 30 October. That's it. That's all that it is.

"Someone on Reddit has helpfully summed the costs from the report and press event.

Note: this doesn't include any transport planning, infra, or management for QSAC.

I'm also curious why a greenfield stadium costs 2-4x what it does elsewhere in Australia and around the world."

from

https://x.com/_The_Ape/status/1770569424845820390?s=20

These are not hard figures though, and risk means that the number is a sort of range.

So all options in reality would cost about the same IMO.

Couriermail --> Two-hour round trip to get to controversial Olympic stadium choice $

QuoteA round trip to Premier Steven Miles' controversial stadium choice for the 2032 Brisbane Olympic and Paralympic Games will take at least two hours for most Brisbane spectators.

After Mr Miles decided to ignore former lord mayor Graham Quirk's independent Olympics venues review and push ahead with spending $1.6 billion to upgrade the Queensland Sports Athletic Centre the Courier-Mail decided to hop on public transport and time the trip.

The stadium at Nathan, west of Mount Gravatt, has limited access to public transport, a bone of contention for many who don't support the Premier's decision.

Reporter Andreas Nicola started his journey from Bowen Hills to Nathan just before 11am and it took about an hour, one-way. ...

If QSAC was proceeded with there would be faster PT options than just what is available today.

Quote from: #Metro on March 21, 2024, 08:23:25 AMThese are not hard figures though, and risk means that the number is a sort of range.

So all options in reality would cost about the same IMO.

Good point.

I'd also add that the "Gabba sustain" 1.5 billion dollar figure is the running total until past 2032.

I don't think it's fair to compare that to the other upfront costs. It does represent substantial savings in the short term.

Gold Coast Bulletin --> Gold Coast Mayor Tom Tate says South-East Qld "conned" in lead-up to 2032 Olympics bid $

QuoteMayor Tom Tate has taken fresh aim at the International Olympic Committee, calling a review of the Brisbane 2032 Olympic and Paralympic Games a "debacle" and saying the public had been "conned" during the bid process.

The newly re-elected head of Gold Coast City Council said the state government's decision to overlook existing venues in his city – in favour of upgrading older venues in Brisbane – flew in the face of 2032's initial pitch as a "cost-neutral" and "regional games".

The council made a lengthy submission to former Brisbane Lord Mayor Graham Quirk's Games venues review, offering up existing Coast venues to save about $5bn on new infrastructure. The ideas were rejected.

"We see the debacle of the Quirk Review with the Gold Coast again ignored," Mr Tate said.

"My strong view is, this behaviour from the IOC will be the end of the Olympics and Paralympics movement post 2032 because no country or region will ever trust the IOC again." ...

Couriermail --> IOC boss Thomas Bach responds to Queensland's cut-price Olympic Games $

QuoteThe International Olympic Committee says it is up to the people of Brisbane to determine if a new stadium is built or not for the 2032 Games - but the experience for athletes must be the priority.

IOC President Thomas Bach and Olympic Games Executive Director Christophe Dubi have spoken for the first time after significant backlash against the Queensland Government's decision to ignore a $450,000 review to build a new stadium at Victoria Park.

Premier Steven Miles sensationally claimed IOC powerbroker John Coates suggested the government spend $1.6 billion to upgrade the Queensland Sport and Athletic Centre at Nathan because the bid was put forward on the basis existing facilities would be used.

But the IOC bosses, speaking overnight after an executive board meeting in Switzerland, said it was up to the people of Brisbane to decide if a new stadium was built. ...

Summary for Queensland Parliament QT today.  Hansard up to QT is available after 2pm

1. 'No metro' likely for QSAC stadium.

2. Transport to QSAC worked 27 years ago, trust me: Mellish.

2. Transport Minister Bart Mellish has rejected a claim from the Opposition the delay to commit to an Olympic infrastructure plan has meant the Sunshine Coast rail will not extend to Maroochydore.

Brisbanetimes --> 'Size does not matter': IOC says stadium decisions a matter for Qld $

QuoteThe International Olympic Committee has insisted it did not push for any particular stadium outcome for Brisbane 2032, saying the issue was entirely a matter for local Games organisers.

A cloud has hung over Brisbane 2032 since Monday, when Premier Steven Miles rejected the findings of an independent report into Olympic venues – led by former Brisbane lord mayor Graham Quirk – that recommended the Gabba rebuild be abandoned in favour of a new stadium at Victoria Park. ...

IOC Press Conference - 20.03.2024