RAIL - Back On Track Forum

All I see is a person that's not very good at maths.

Distance from the Ipswich CBD to the Brisbane CBD is 42 km. Driving a fairly economical car like a Toyota Yaris, consuming 5.5 litres/100 km (it'll probably be more in peak hour traffic) and an average petrol price of $1.80/litre, the weekly fuel bill for a 5 day week would be $41.58, or $8.32/day. Add that to the parking fee, and that's a total of $22.32/day, and that's before factoring in increased car maintenance costs and depreciation due to the extra kms. Additionally, if they were travelling 5 days/week, F riday would be at 50% off, making the average daily cost $11.94.

So driving is easily double the cost of taking the train, assuming this person works in the CBD 5 days/week. Even if it's 4 or less, the cost is probably still double, taking the non-fuel/parking costs into consideration.

But if work has free parking that's another story...

She's early bird parking at the convention centre, not the CBD.

Quote from: SurfRail on January 19, 2023, 06:49:12 AMShe's early bird parking at the convention centre, not the CBD.

Doesn't change the equation by much, and realistically my estimate of fuel consumption is probably a little on the low side. Not many cars will get 5.5 in heavy peak hour traffic.

Queensland Parliament

https://documents.parliament.qld.gov.au/tableOffice/questionsAnswers/2023/709-2023.pdf

Question on Notice
No. 709
Asked on 25 May 2023

MRS L GERBER ASKED MINISTER FOR TRANSPORT AND MAIN ROADS AND MINISTER
FOR DIGITIAL SERVICES (HON M BAILEY)

QUESTION:

Will the Minister provide (reported separately for each of the last four calendar years and for each
go card type (adult, senior, child etc)), (a) the average amount of money spent on travel per go
card (excluding cards not used during that period), (b) the maximum amount used on any go
card, (c) the average number of trips taken per go card (excluding cards not used during that
period) and (d) the most number of trips taken using a go card?

ANSWER:

I thank the Member for Currumbin for the question.

The Palaszczuk Government is committed to making public transport accessible for all
Queenslanders, and provides assistance through public transport concessions, ticketing products
and schemes. A broad range of concessions are available to eligible concession cardholders to
ensure the benefits are received by those who need them most. Revenue collected from public
transport fares falls well short of the funding required to provide public transport services, with
the Queensland Government historically subsidising over 80 per cent of transport operator costs.
go cards allow customers to travel on all Translink bus, train, ferry and tram services across
greater Brisbane, Ipswich, Sunshine Coast and Gold Coast regions. The Palaszczuk Government
is investing $371 million in Translink's new Smart Ticketing system, introducing new ways
customers can plan and pay for public transport across Queensland. Smart Ticketing introduces
new payment methods including Visa, Mastercard and American Express contactless debit, or
credit cards, smart watches, smartphones and other smart devices, in addition to go cards and
paper tickets.

With reference to go card usage over the last four years from 2019 to 2022:

. the average amount of money spent on travel using a go card will vary depending on zones
travelled, travel during off-peak or peak times, and if travelling on a concession
. customers are encouraged to make extra daily trips on the network by allowing them to
make use of our one, two and free policy for seniors and some concession groups
. all standard go cards can make use of the eight and 50 per cent frequent user discount,
which allows discounted journeys for the remainder of a week, once eight paid journeys
have been undertaken
. child go cards also have unlimited free travel on weekends
. generally, the average number of trips and fares have reduced as public transport usage
recovers from the impacts of COVID-19. Travel patterns have also changed due to working
and studying from home arrangements.

(a) The average spend per Adult go card:
– in 2022, was $126
– in 2021, was $148
– in 2020, was $137
– in 2019, was $145.

The average spend per Child go card:
– in 2022, was $43
– in 2021, was $52
– in 2020, was $52
– in 2019, was $51.

The average spend per Seniors go card:
– in 2022, was $32
– in 2021, was $33
– in 2020, was $33
– in 2019, was $41.

The average spend per Concession go card:
– in 2022, was $100
– in 2021, was $103
– in 2020, was $99
– in 2019, was $123.

(b) The maximum spend on any Adult go card:
– in 2022, was $5311
– in 2021, was $5856
– in 2020, was $6254
– in 2019, was $4793.

The maximum spend on any Child go card:
– in 2022, was $1290
– in 2021, was $1238
– in 2020, was $1292
– in 2019, was $1118.

The maximum spend on any Seniors go card:
– in 2022, was $2322
– in 2021, was $2374
– in 2020, was $2361
– in 2019, was $2035.

The maximum spend on any Concession go card:
– in 2022, was $1987
– in 2021, was $2329
– in 2020, was $2781
– in 2019, was $2011.

(c) The average number of trips per Adult go card:
– in 2022, was 37
– in 2021, was 45
– in 2020, was 41
– in 2019, was 44.

The average number of trips per Child go card:
– in 2022, was 27
– in 2021, was 35
– in 2020, was 34
– in 2019, was 35.

The average number of trips per Seniors go card:
– in 2022, was 30
– in 2021, was 34
– in 2020, was 32
– in 2019, was 33.

The average number of trips per Concession go card:
– in 2022, was 77
– in 2021, was 81
– in 2020, was 78
– in 2019, was 104.

(d) The most trips taken using an Adult go card:
– in 2022, was 2074
– in 2021, was 2223
– in 2020, was 2891
– in 2019, was 2272.

The most trips taken using a Child go card:
– in 2022, was 1457
– in 2021, was 1342
– in 2020, was 1942
– in 2019, was 1742.

The most trips taken using a Seniors go card:
– in 2022, was 5260
– in 2021, was 3379
– in 2020, was 3461
– in 2019, was 3472.

The most trips taken using a Concession go card:
– in 2022, was 3196
– in 2021, was 4796
– in 2020, was 5861
– in 2019, was 6883.

Queensland Parliament

https://documents.parliament.qld.gov.au/tableOffice/questionsAnswers/2023/763-2023.pdf

Question on Notice
No. 763
Asked on 14 June 2023

MR S MINNIKIN ASKED MINISTER FOR TRANSPORT AND MAIN ROADS AND MINISTER
FOR DIGITIAL SERVICES (HON M BAILEY)

QUESTION:

Will the Minister provide the total number of go cards that have been used in the last 12 months
(reported separately by type (adult, senior etc))?

ANSWER:

I thank the Member for Chatsworth for the question.

The Department of Transport and Main Roads is committed to providing a single, integrated
transport system accessible to everyone. Queenslanders use public transport to connect to jobs,
education, health and other essential services.

go cards allow customers to travel on all Translink bus, train, ferry and tram services across
greater Brisbane, Ipswich, Sunshine Coast and Gold Coast regions.

The total number of go cards used between 1 June 2022 to 31 May 2023, reported separately by
go card type, was as follows:
. adult – 1,729,647
. child – 245,269
. seniors – 293,356
. concession – 405,754.

For the 12 months ending 31 May 2023, over 2.67 million go cards were used across the network
in South East Queensland (SEQ). This compares encouragingly with pre-COVID-19 figures which
were around 2.76 million go cards being used in the 2018–19 financial year.
The Palaszczuk Government is investing $371 million in a new Smart Ticketing system that
enables customers to pay for public transport using a Visa, Mastercard or American Express
contactless debit or credit card, smartphone, smart watch or smart device. Smart Ticketing is
currently available for travel on adult go card fares between all G:link, Queensland Rail (SEQ)
and Airtrain stations.

"Ways to save on travel

Stretch your travel budget further in South East Queensland with our top tips.

Use go card or Smart Ticketing to travel – fares are at least 30% cheaper than a paper ticket.

Travel-off peak if you can – you'll save 20% on your go card or smart ticketing fare on weekdays before 6am, 8.30am to 3.30pm or after 7pm; all weekend; and public holidays.

Make 8 journeys in a 7 day period then save 50% – from Monday to Sunday with go card and Smart Ticketing.

Take the kids with you for free – children under 5 travel free at all times, and children aged 5 to 14 travel free on weekends with an orange go card."

So they are going to freeze the cost of regos from 01 Jul 24. Why not Public Transport fares as well?

^^As posted in Roads and Infrastructure

Brisbanetimes --> Queensland public transport fares frozen for 2024 in budget update $

QuotePublic transport fares will be frozen for Queenslanders using Translink services in 2024, and this is expected to save the average two-zone commuters up to $65 over the year.

The saving is expected to be up to $210 for a Gold Coast to Brisbane traveller, with fares usually indexed to inflation at the start of each calendar year. ...

https://twitter.com/meaghan_scanlon/status/1735206899124224233?t=RfjaeWv-rAHtEtv0-4QIvQ&s=19

https://x.com/CrStuartJames/status/1770306243032473869?s=20

Geezz, this lot must think we all came down in the last shower! Freeze fares in 2024 (before the election), whack them up more than would have been the case in 2025 (after the election).

The best idea is kids free on weekends ... family can go for an outing to the city or a park with a good adventure playground, and ice cream on the way home ... cheap day out for a family struggling with a hefty mortgage ... or for grandpa/grandma babysitters on a pension.

Fare freezes are just pre-election vote bait, we have had them before.

They just result in a bigger increase post-election and/or a new or improved service freeze.

Neither of these really in our long-term interest.

Government Statement

https://statements.qld.gov.au/statements/100289

Over $61 million back in the pockets of South East Queensland commuters thanks to Miles Labor Government

10th May 2023

Minister for Transport and Main Roads and Minister for Digital Services
The Honourable Bart Mellish

. The Miles Labor Government continues to pull all levers on cost of living, to put money back in the pockets of Queenslanders.

. In the last 12 months, over $61 million saved by SEQ commuters on public transport fares.

. Government providing public transport fare relief through off-peak discounts, concession and half price travel for students, seniors and concession card holders.

The Miles Labor Government's cost of living relief measures continue to put money back in the pockets of Queenslanders, including commuters in the state's south east.

More > https://statements.qld.gov.au/statements/100289

https://x.com/ozbob13/status/1794447414092525680

Couriermail --> 'As close to free as you can get': All public transport slashed to 50c flat rate $

QuoteIn his most significant move since becoming Premier, Steven Miles is slashing the cost of all Translink public transport services across the state in bid to ease gridlock and cost-of-living pressures.

Public transport fares will be slashed to just 50c under a major pre-election trial aimed at easing traffic gridlock and stemming cost-of-living pressures for Queenslanders.

In his most significant announcement since becoming Premier, Steven Miles will on Sunday reveal the cost of all Translink public transport services in the state will be slashed to 50c from August 5 – no matter how far people travel.  ...

Facebook ...

I don't think anyone expected that.

State Government MPs were X'ing yesterday what can you buy with 50cents?

https://x.com/LanceMcCallumMP/status/1794265076503019938

Had an inkling. 

Good that it is Queensland wide. My only concern is that I hope they don't cut actual service funding.

There is not much detail as yet. For example, will normal ticketing rules still apply e.g. transfers? I have requested a briefing.

My initial reaction is this is dumb policy but good votebait.

$150m buys a lot of service improvement.

Fare relief - yes.

This much - nope.

Quote from: SurfRail on May 26, 2024, 06:17:58 AMMy initial reaction is this is dumb policy but good votebait.

$150m buys a lot of service improvement.

Fare relief - yes.

This much - nope.

It also snookers the LNP, if they get into power, it forces them to keep the fares very low, or they are going to look like the devil incarnate once people get used to 50c fares if they try and raise them back to their current levels (or higher).

I also wonder that if it is successful and they are able to maintain the network while also improving it while also subsiding the fares this much, that other states start to follow and lower their fares to basically nothing.  After August 5, Queensland will have the lowest fares in the country, and most of the western world.

My biggest concern apart from the heavy increase in the subsidy to the fares (that can't be used to improve the network instead), is that this could lead to overloading, as people ditch the car for public transport, while good and needed, needs to be managed carefully and you have to be confident that it can carry the loads with the attraction of such low fares.   We all saw what happened in Melbourne when they created the free fare zone in the CBD, it led to overloading of the tram network where people who lived beyond the free fare zone, they couldn't board, as it was taken up by everyone wanting a free trip.

Premier Miles should announce the length of time he is prepared to keep fares at 50c beyond the date of the state election, assuming the ALP will retain government. He puts pressure on the LNP to come up with alternatives should they win power -- such as the $2.50 'all day anywhere' fare concession card holders enjoy in Sydney. Even at $2 more than what the Premier is offering, its a great bargain -- and a great incentive to travel. I was in Sydney recently and there were lots of oldies riding the buses and trains off-peak.

Translink go card user guide
Effective April 2024

https://translink.widen.net/s/whgvwwsgts/go-card-user-guide

Transferring between services

When transferring between services, your
go card will calculate one overall fare for your
whole journey.

Simply tap on and tap off for each trip of the
journey and make sure to:
• Continue your journey within 60 minutes from
within the same or adjoining zones.
• Transfer up to three times in a journey, starting
your final transfer within three and a half hours
of your initial tap on. The card reader will show
a continuation of travel message.
• Complete your journey within six hours.

If you change from one train or tram to another
train or tram without leaving the station there is
no need to tap off between services to continue
your journey.

Quote from: ozbob on May 26, 2024, 06:11:58 AMThere is not much detail as yet. For example, will normal ticketing rules still apply e.g. transfers? I have requested a briefing.

I am being offered a briefing later this morning 

Quote from: Stillwater on May 26, 2024, 07:20:16 AMPremier Miles should announce the length of time he is prepared to keep fares at 50c beyond the date of the state election, assuming the ALP will retain government. He puts pressure on the LNP to come up with alternatives should they win power -- such as the $2.50 'all day anywhere' fare concession card holders enjoy in Sydney. Even at $2 more than what the Premier is offering, its a great bargain -- and a great incentive to travel. I was in Sydney recently and there were lots of oldies riding the buses and trains off-peak.

https://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/qld-politics/as-close-to-free-as-you-can-get-all-public-transport-slashed-to-50c-flat-rate/news-story/5e4ba34968fd4f78bcfbd5190fc9a659

" ... If re-elected in October, the government will re-evaluate the measure in early 2025. ... "

https://x.com/9NewsQueensland/status/1794477134007673082

https://x.com/StevenJMiles/status/1794466441649168398

https://x.com/SpencerHowson/status/1794482462871241112

Government Statement

https://statements.qld.gov.au/statements/100402

Miles plan to bust congestion: Public transport (almost) free

26th May 2024

JOINT STATEMENT

Premier
The Honourable Steven Miles

Deputy Premier, Treasurer and Minister for Trade and Investment
The Honourable Cameron Dick

Minister for Transport and Main Roads and Minister for Digital Services
The Honourable Bart Mellish

. New Premier Steven Miles will tempt drivers on to public transport by making it virtually free for 6 months.

. 50 cent fare will apply to all Translink public transport services right around the state, from 5 August 2024.

. Significantly reducing the cost of public transport will encourage more people to leave the car at home, busting road congestion.

The Miles Labor Government is leading the nation by delivering another massive cost of living relief initiative to Queensland commuters, and busting congestion.

From 5 August, the cost of all Translink public transport services will be slashed to 50 cents, no matter where you live or how far you travel.

Existing commuters stand to save thousands of dollars. If Queenslanders switch from driving the savings could be enormous.

Significantly reducing the cost barrier to public transport will encourage more people to leave the car at home, leading to a reduction in road congestion.

A single bus takes 50 cars off the road and a train takes 600 cars off the road.

The initiative will be in place for six months.

Customers will still need to 'tap on' and 'tap off' for their journey using Smart Ticketing, a go card, or by purchasing a paper ticket, in order to access the reduced fare.

The Big Build is increasing capacity on the bus, rail and tram network as the population grows.

It's expected this initiative will increase public transport patronage and reduce congestion on Queensland's busy roads.

Public transport usage remains about 13 per cent below pre-COVID levels.

The measure is due to have a disinflationary effect and will help to lower both transport CPI and inflation in Queensland through the second half of the year.

Quotes from Queensland Premier Steven Miles

"For someone catching the train to work in Brisbane from here in Mango Hill it costs up to $96* a week.

"And if you drive to work, you're stuck in peak hour traffic every day and paying a lot more than that.

"It's why I'm making all public transport fares a flat 50 cents – no matter where you live, your mode of travel, or how far you go.

It's as close to free as you can get.

"From 5 August 2024, that same trip from Mango Hill to the City and back would only cost $5 for the whole week – that's nearly $90* back in your pocket every week.

"I expect this will save Queenslanders thousands of dollars over six months, and encourage more people to catch our fast, frequent and 50 cent public transport.

"Encouraging more Queenslanders to jump on a bus or train to get to work or school will help bust congestion. 

"Queenslanders are doing it tough, but they can trust that my government is here to help and we're doing what matters to Queensland."

Quotes from Deputy Premier Cameron Dick

"We want to make public transport as affordable and attractive to Queenslanders as we possibly can.

"50 cent fares will mean savings you can see every day.

"We hope they will make a lot more people in the South-East consider using public transport for their daily commute, which reduces congestion for everyone."

Quotes from Minister for Transport and Main Roads

"The Miles Government is providing critical cost of living relief to Queenslanders.

"This initiative will importantly mean money in the pockets of families across Queensland.

"We hope that it will provide a great opportunity for active transport. Walk from home to your nearest train or bus stop as you head out for a night at Howard Smith Wharves, Surfers Paradise, or the Valley for a fun evening with your mates.

"Enjoy a walk to the closet bus stop with your family and friends as you head out to school sporting activities, visiting grandparents, or a lovely Sunday picnic.

"We've got a growing state with more and more cars on our roads every day.

"This initiative is a great way to encourage more people to use public transport."

Further information:

CONCESSION CARD HOLDERS

Concession holders currently receive 50 per cent off their fare.

During the initiative, concession holders will receive 50 cent fares as it is cheaper than the current concession rate.

SCHOOL TRAVEL FARES

School travel fares have an ongoing significant investment of $180 million per annum in the School Transport Assistance Scheme meaning many students already travel to school for free each day.

WHAT CONSTITUTES A "TRANSLINK PUBLIC TRANSPORT SERVICE"

A Translink public transport service is one contracted by the government.

A list of the Translink services in your region can be found online.

50 cent fares will not apply to privately operated transport services.

Smart Ticketing is available on all rail, tram and Brisbane City Council ferry services.

Paper tickets can be purchased at fare machines at busway, train or tram stations and major interchanges as well a ticket office at train stations during opening hours.

go Cards can be purchased from a range of locations including go card online, selected retailers, by calling Translink on 13 12 30, many G:link and busway stations and at the ticket office at train stations during opening hours.

*Based on a paper ticket fare between Mango Hill train station and Central Train station, travelling twice per day, five days per week.

ENDS

This is a great opportunity to highlight the far greater subsidy for trips by car + the utter imbalance in funding towards driving.

The only link between revenue and service is a political one as road transport shows clearly

I just completed a short notice  live interview on 4BC Weekends with Peter Fegan Host.  I stressed that the cost of this (Fifty Cent Fares) needs to be quarantined from the Translink budget for service improvements.

I talked about poor frequency on both rail and bus.  Pointed out that if you pay $30 for a bag of rotten applies and 50 cents for a bag of rotten apples, it still is a bag of rotten apples.

Mentioned that the ' fifty cent fares ' is not really sustainable in the longer term, but it might direct the smart ticketing project into some better fare products, capping, periodical type tickets and so forth.

SBS News --> Public transport fares in this state are being slashed to 50c

Translink

50 cent fares are coming

https://translink.com.au/tickets-and-fares/50-cent-fares

I think this is excellent, we can debate how much public transport should be subsidised and how much driving should be subsidised but QLD has had higher fares than the rest of the country for a long time. It has not led to improved investment in service.

Bob is right to say that this cost must be quarantined from the cost of translink service improvements. But there is no reason why increased subsidy should mean reduced investment when that has never been true for roads.

Aside from how I feel about this personally it's incredibly smart political strategy.
Miles is locking in big costs for things that are beneficial, important and popular. He is wedging the LNP both in the campaign and if they win government. In the campaign the LNP will be forced to back Labor's investments and lock in the progressive coal royalties or risk abandoning their small target campaign potentially losing the election. If they back labor's plans their chances of winning are higher but they will have a very difficult time changing course and their relationship with the coal lobby will be badly damaged.

Quote from: AJ Transport on May 26, 2024, 12:00:58 PMAside from how I feel about this personally it's incredibly smart political strategy.
Miles is locking in big costs for things that are beneficial, important and popular. He is wedging the LNP both in the campaign and if they win government. In the campaign the LNP will be forced to back Labor's investments and lock in the progressive coal royalties or risk abandoning their small target campaign potentially losing the election. If they back labor's plans their chances of winning are higher but they will have a very difficult time changing course and their relationship with the coal lobby will be badly damaged.

Just saying that statistics say only 4% Qld wide take public transport. It hardly translates into vote winning material, even with some considering to swap to PT rather than the car.

"Queensland. On Census day 2021 in Queensland, 64.0% of people travelled to work in a private car, 4.0% took public transport and 3.3% rode a bike or walked. 14.1% worked at home. Queensland's commuting statistics reveal the main modes of transport by which residents get to work.

Sent to all outlets:

Fifty Cent Flat fares for Translink Queensland

26th May 2024

RAIL Back On Track Members were surprised as the community with the Miles Labor Government plan to introduce a Fifty Cent flat fare on Translink Public Transport throughout Queensland (1).

The introduction of the Fifty Cent fares from 5th August 2024, for a possible period of six months will no doubt lead to more people using public transport. This is a good outcome, however we do have some concerns with possible overcrowding and the management of that. Also the poor service frequency of Citytrain out of peak particularly, and many bus routes needs consideration. We are unlikely to see any peak service frequency increases on the Citytrain, but we believe there is some scope for an increase in off peak service frequencies.

A major concern is that the cost of this initiative in terms of foregone fare revenue should be isolated from funding for Translink service improvements. Many of the SEQ and Regional bus networks are long overdue for service improvements.  Will this delay such improvements?

Encouraging more public transport patronage does benefit the community overall (2). (See What is the full cost of your commute? https://thediscourse.ca/scarborough/full-cost-commute ) however the public transport has to be there to use.  More of the Transport Budget needs to directed to improving the bus networks, maximising train frequencies, more use of bus lanes and separated bicycle lanes, and better support for active transport facilities at rail and bus stations and major bus stops.

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org


References:

1. Government Statement: Miles plan to bust congestion: Public transport (almost) free
https://statements.qld.gov.au/statements/100402

2.

 

At prior elections where a fare freeze was applied, fares were sharply increased after and / or service funding frozen.

The is no free lunch.

Quote from: #Metro on May 26, 2024, 12:16:35 PMAt prior elections where a fare freeze was applied, fares were sharply increased after and / or service funding frozen.

The is no free lunch.

there is if you drive!!

Quote from: #Metro on May 26, 2024, 12:16:35 PMAt prior elections where a fare freeze was applied, fares were sharply increased after and / or service funding frozen.

The is no free lunch.

Quote from: Jonno on May 26, 2024, 12:25:35 PM

Quote from: #Metro on May 26, 2024, 12:16:35 PMAt prior elections where a fare freeze was applied, fares were sharply increased after and / or service funding frozen.

The is no free lunch.

there is if you drive!!

That's true we all pay for these subsidies and it's likely to hurt future budgets as we have seen from recent subsidies during COVID.