RAIL - Back On Track Forum

Quote from: verbatim9 on February 19, 2020, 12:32:50 PM

Quote from: SurfRail on February 19, 2020, 09:55:15 AM
^ They finally replaced the marquees on platform 1 with slightly more permanent looking structures in the last few months.  What a disgraceful outcome for one of the busiest stations on the network.

Quote from: timh on February 19, 2020, 10:03:25 AM
Yeah I was at Southbank the other day. Can confirm is gross. All low level platforms too. For an inner city, high tourist station, it's a bit of a disgrace

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Quote from: brissypete on February 19, 2020, 10:24:38 AM
Agree that South Bank Station is dreadful.

The so-called temporary buildings on P2/3 appear to be permanent given they are still there. The Southpoint entrance has just 2 go-card readers and also looks unfinished, I thought fare gates were to be installed.

The new permanent looking shelters on P1 look crap too. Also the high step to trains in places make it a poor station.

South Brisbane is a good example of a nicely done upgrade, level platforms and just looks nice and welcoming.

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Was platform 1 meant to be raised? In the same way Milton station upgrade was done? Also Southbank station is a number 1 contender for a test station in relation to the new next generation ticket gates. If the new ticket gates can also scan QR codes? It means they can remain operational 24/7.  A ticket vending machine can be placed on the platforms if people need a ticket to get out. Passengers can also tap/touch off with a credit or debit card to open the gates.

Quote from: kram0 on February 19, 2020, 14:04:57 PM
I got word they hope to start construction of the station upgrade by the end of 2020. I will believe it when I see it, but fingers crossed.

Brisbanetimes----> Brisbane tower halted to give crowded school more growing room

Quote
A planned 20-storey apartment tower right next to the "at capacity " Buranda State School will not proceed after the Queensland Government and the developer reached an agreement.

Parents who had opposed the development for almost a decade cried when local MP Jackie Trad made the announcement at the Woolloongabba school on Thursday morning.

The school currently has about 260 students.

Parents long opposed plans by Singaporean developer Wee Hur to build the 20-storey complex overshadowing the school on one side of Logan Road.

Wee Hur has already built two international student complexes on the other side of Logan Road at Buranda after acquiring the land from developer Anthony John Group.

The outcome means Education Queensland is likely to acquire the site to enable Buranda State School to expand. The department has already acquired a nearby Anglicare site.

The Buranda land was surplus to the Department of Transport and Main Roads' requirements after the Eastern Busway was opened. It was subsequently acquired by the Anthony John Group, which sold it to Wee Hur with call-in rights.

The original industrial-use land needed to be decontaminated. The Department of Transport and Main Roads retained options to negotiate future development with Wee Hur as part of a memorandum of understanding.

After several deadlines passed, the department decided to call in the final land parcels.

Buranda parent, former school P&C Association president, and now Greens candidate Sally Dillon said the decision showed persistent communities could fight overdevelopment.

"We, the Better Buranda community group and the school's P&C Association, have been pressuring the state government not to sell that land to the developer," Ms Dillon said. "And that is what has happened.

The student accommodation built by Wee Hur across Logan Road from Buranda State School.

"They have given in to the community pressure and refused to sell the land to Wee Hur.

"The local MP, Jackie Trad, came to the school and announced it this morning."

Ms Trad confirmed the Department of Transport and Main Roads land had been withdrawn by the state government after development deadlines passed.

She questioned Brisbane City Council's decision to approve Wee Hur's 20-storey block next to the school, saying: "I think that was totally wrong."

Lengthy negotiations between the Department of Transport and Main Roads and Wee Hur have continued since the call-in options fell due.

Ms Trad said the department had decided not to sell the surplus land, and Education Queensland had been approached.

"Education [Queensland] have essentially asked for the land, because it is right in front of the school," she said. "They have said inner-city schools are bursting at the seams and we would like this land."

Ms Trad said negotiations were always complex.

"As the local member, can I say we all could have done a whole range of things better – the council and the state government," she said.

"I absolutely believe we should have made better, community-informed decisions.

"There are many people who have worked tirelessly on this issue, and I am delighted to have been able to play my small part in helping to deliver a fantastic outcome for our local South Brisbane community."

Both Ms Dillon and Ms Trad said they would talk to the school community about the land.

Wee Hur told The Australian Financial Review in December 2019 that Brisbane's CBD was close to capacity for student accommodation, and future decisions needed to be strategically chosen.

Wee Hur has been approached for comment.

^^This is not a very good outcome for reserved land for a potentially good TOD development.

Quote from: verbatim9 on February 28, 2020, 12:50:26 PM
^^This is not a very good outcome for reserved land for a potentially good TOD development.

It seems that the land on the other side of the road will be developed as planned. Apparently there was a small patch of land next to the school which is now reserved for expansion of that school. A decent TOD will be completed adjacent to the current tower at Buranda bus station.

Yeah, so the land parcel in question is on the NE side of Logan Road. I think it's the correct outcome for the school to get it. They'll likely need to expand in the coming years.

The land on the SW side can and should be more TOD.

Couriermail-----> Honeycombes Property Group will start work by May on the $140m Ferny Grove train station development

^^At long last a start date for the TOD at Ferny Grove station being May this year.

Quote from: verbatim9 on February 26, 2021, 21:50:36 PM
Couriermail-----> Honeycombes Property Group will start work by May on the $140m Ferny Grove train station development

^^At long last a start date for the TOD at Ferny Grove station being May this year.

This development fails the TOD principles on almost all levels!

^ Genuinely curious as to why you think that to be the case.

Commercial Real Estate---> Developers move in on public transport hubs for new projects around the country

^^At last

Redland City Bulletin --> Residents say no to Cleveland 124 unit transit oriented building despite Department of Transport giving it the nod

QuoteA controversial 124 apartment development at Cleveland Railway Station may get the nod from council after developers amended plans to include a cafe under a landmark eucalyptus.

The proposed multi-million dollar transit oriented building will provide a mix of residential and retail uses for residents and commuters including an improved car park, 124 residential units, a gymnasium, a business centre and a cafe. ...

Couriermail---> Woolies, Dan Murphy's to open in outer suburb's $140m precinct

Woolworths and Dan Murphy's will be the anchor tenants at the new Ferny Grove transit oriented development.

"Welcome to Ferny Grove... we have a BWS, a pub AND a Dan Murphy's in the carpark."

Quote from: aldonius on May 18, 2021, 09:21:23 AM
"Welcome to Ferny Grove... we have a BWS, a pub AND a Dan Murphy's in the carpark."

Included in the development -

Full line supermarket.

Liquor Store.

Cinema complex.

Childcare facility.

Combined medical practitioner service providers.

Food & beverage operators.   

and apartments

Couriermail.com.au ---> Lifestyle precinct Lamington Markets to launch in Lutwyche $

QuoteA massive dining and lifestyle development that will feature a huge indoor market hall, a craft brewery and restaurants - along with more than 100 residential units - has been approved for Brisbane's inner north.

A sneak peek of the impressive new 10,000sq m food, lifestyle and architectural precinct in Brisbane's north.
Brisbane's inner north is set to welcome a whopping 10,000 square metre food, retail and lifestyle precinct in Lutwyche, with Brisbane City Council giving the green light to Lamington Markets. ...

I was just thinking about this the other day. I am glad it's going ahead.

Now just for the missing link from Windsor to Lutwyche under Lutwyche road, to cater for Metro

Quote from: verbatim9 on July 23, 2021, 16:21:00 PM
I was just thinking about this the other day. I am glad it's going ahead.

Now just for the missing link from Windsor to Lutwyche under Lutwyche road, to cater for Metro

+1 for this. It's a pretty nice TOD right on top of the Busway. And yes the "missing link" absolutely should be a priority for Schrinner and BCC. I don't think the state govt has it as a priority (even though it should be their responsibility), so I expect much like Metro's current "Phase 1", that missing link may be picked up by BCC and built as part of "Metro Phase 2". Here's hoping anyway

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https://statements.qld.gov.au/statements/92770

$140 million Ferny Grove Station upgrade kicks off
27th July 2021

Minister for Transport and Main Roads
The Honourable Mark Bailey

Another Queensland jobs boost is underway with major construction underway on Ferny Grove's $140 million landmark suburban Transit Oriented Development (TOD).

The $140 million mixed-use development at the Ferny Grove Train Station will be delivered by Queensland-based developer Honeycombes Property Group.

The project is being supported by an $11 million investment from the Morrison Government and $9 million from the Palaszczuk Government to deliver more than 1,400 car parks.

More than 800 full time jobs will be supported by the development, including about 285 directly tied to the construction project.

Federal Minister for Communications, Urban Infrastructure, Cities and the Arts, the Hon Paul Fletcher MP, said this major infrastructure upgrade for North Brisbane would revamp the Ferny Grove rail station into a vibrant transport hub.

"The Morrison Government is getting on with delivering infrastructure projects that improve congestion and safety for commuters across Australia, making it easier for them to move around our capital cities and ensuring they get home quickly and safely.

"This project brings to 66 the total number of Urban Congestion Fund projects around Australia that are completed or underway. A further 50 are expected to start construction this year.

"This is just the latest example of us delivering on our commitment to progress critical infrastructure projects across the country under our record $110 billion, 10-year infrastructure investment pipeline, which is helping to drive Australia's world-leading economic recovery."

Queensland Transport and Main Roads Minister, the Hon Mark Bailey MP, said securing hundreds more jobs in Brisbane was crucial to Queensland's plan for economic recovery.

"As we focus on economic recovery from Queensland's strong COVID-19 response, jointly-funded projects like this provide significant community benefits and local construction jobs," Minister Bailey said.

"Building better infrastructure for local communities and commuters is a focus of Queensland's $27.5 billion pipeline of road and transport upgrades

Federal Member for Dickson, the Hon Peter Dutton MP said, "There is a huge need for additional car parks at Ferny grove station and this project will provide the extra capacity the community needs."

Federal Member for Ryan, Julian Simmonds MP, said the project would provide local commuters with safe and convenient access to more park 'n' ride facilities and an expanded shopping and entertainment precinct

"The vision for the upgrade is to create a local 'neighbourhood village', which could feature food and beverage operators, a supermarket, cinema complex, childcare facility, medical practitioners and other service providers," Mr Simmonds said.

"The upgrade is expected to support more than 285 jobs during the life of the project, which is just fantastic news."

State Member for Ferny Grove Mark Furner said the project would have a significant impact on the liveability of the region.

"I have backed this project for years because of the difference it will make to traffic on local roads and easier access to public transport for so many local people," Mr Furner said.

"It is fantastic to see construction getting underway and the additional jobs involved in the project can only be good for the local economy."

Honeycombes Property Group Managing Director Peter Honeycombe the Ferny Grove Central project had been seven years in the planning.

"It is immensely rewarding to finally get to the starting line and to start construction on the project today," Mr Honeycombe said.

"It's somewhat symbolic that it comes within days of Brisbane being announced as the 2032 Olympics host city with the opportunity to showcase our city and region to the world.

"We see this as a very important urban renewal project for Ferny Grove and for Brisbane's north-west and we're passionate about projects that breathe new life into communities and that create a neighbourhood village atmosphere with all modern amenities that people want."

The Ferny Grove development will provide more than 1400 retail and commuter car parks, 82 residential apartments, shopping and entertainment amenities.

Construction on the commuter car park upgrade is set to be completed by late 2022 and the entire mixed-use TOD expected to be completed by late 2023, weather permitting.

For more information, visit www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Community-and-environment/Planning-and-development/Transit-oriented-developments.

https://twitter.com/9NewsQueensland/status/1419938723798700033

It's almost like if the feeder buses weren't so abysmal to the surrounding suburbs, you'd find less of a strain on the existing carpark, not needing to build a new multi-storey one. Anyone wanting to catch a bus to Ferny Grove propper or Upper Kedron, with a population of around 10,000 people and growing? The only option you have is an Hourly off-peak, 2 hourly Saturday, no Sunday service and the latest train you need to be on out of Central is at 5:56pm to have any chance of catching the last 367 at just 6:32pm! (and that's assuming everything runs smoothly).

Just a refresher on what the other "congestion busting car park upgrades" (that phrase literally makes me sick) are costing:
-$300,000 Altandi P'n'R upgrade (providing an extra 50 parking spaces) - $6,000/space [it's beyond me what an extra 50 spaces will do, especially with the location of Altandi and the number of bus services passing the station]
-$3.4 million Cannon Hill P'n'R upgrade (providing an extra 80 spaces) - $42,500/space
-$15 million Carseldine P'n'R upgrade (providing an extra 170 spaces) - $88,235/space
-$17 million Coomera P'n'R upgrade (providing an extra 500 spaces) - $34,000/space
-$8.8 million Darra P'n'R upgrade (providing an extra 184 spaces) - $47,826/space
-$3.025 million Ebbw Vale P'n'R upgrade (providing an extra 70 spaces) - $43,214/space
-$4.5 million Eight Mile Plains P'n'R upgrade (providing an extra 340 spaces) - $13,235/space
-$21 million Greenbank P'n'R upgrade (providing an extra 600 spaces) - $35,000/space
-$4.285 million Ormeau P'n'R upgrade (providing an extra 125 spaces) - $34,280/space
-$14.5 million Salisbury P'n'R upgrade (providing an extra 140 spaces) - $103,571/space (this is a staged project though Stage 1 including 140 spaces but the total cost as $14.5million - unsure of what the future stages involve)
-$44.5 million Springfield Central P'n'R upgrade (providing an extra 1,100 spaces) - $40,455/space
-$5.2 million Varsity Lakes P'n'Ride upgrade (providing an extra 350 spaces) - $14,857/space

Imagine the quality of feeder buses we would have if this amount of resources were poured into them! Car parks can only get so many commuters to the station. But with buses, even running 1 every 15 mins for an hour will get you upwards of 200 people to the station (more than what any of these "upgrades" listed above will achieve), do that across 16-odd hours a day and you're looking at a capacity of over 3,000 people, at just a fraction of the cost!

But hey, this is Queensland where car is king. So please, take it away One Direction...



Edit: I do understand the need for car parking at Ferny Grove, given the low density nature of Samford and surrounds. But at a scale that is there and is proposed, particularly when the surrounding bus network is at the level it is, is just a slap in the face.

I visit Upper Kedron regularly and only once have I ever made a journey there using public transport. It took me around an hour from Ashgrove to get to a friends house just 2kms from Ferny Station. And due to the delays on the Ferny Grove Line the day I travelled, I was very close to missing that last 367 bus for the day. In fact, there was a (late) train pulling into the station as the driver left at 6:32pm exactly. No wonder commuters have no other choice but to drive, which is exactly what my friend did the next day (a Saturday) and drop me at Ferny Grove Station (there was no way I waiting around for a 2 hourly bus).

It is a bit crazy with the amount of money they are spending on car spaces. Instead they could buy a lot of electric buses, and extend routes to connect with trains.

Where are the cars coming from?

Maybe time to extend to Samford.

Scooters are a more economical way when feeder buses are not supported by density.

The FG T.O.D should hopefully mean a proper bus review for the area.......which should include proper integration between the TOD / great western shopping centre / arana hills plaza / brookside and the gap shops (385 buz)...
No stuffing around with improper timetabling or connections....(like the current 398/367 clusterfu%k)......get it done properly...
Integrating major trip generators properly brings more patronage...

Quote from: #Metro on July 28, 2021, 07:09:44 AM
Where are the cars coming from?

Pretty much anywhere surrounding. Upper Kedron, Ferny Grove, Ferny Hills, Samford, Camp Mountain, Wrights Mountain. I don't know how many come from the Samford direction compared to the immediate suburbs, but I would have a crack and say a fair majority would be from Upper Kedron/Ferny Hills due to a near non existence in bus services.

Quote from: #Metro on July 28, 2021, 07:09:44 AM
Maybe time to extend to Samford.

Aside from the fact that there are bigger fish to fry on the QR network, there is no where near enough population to support this extension. This is why some sort of P'n'R is needed at Ferny Grove, but there should be more done regarding an increase in bus services out to Samford.

Quote from: #Metro on July 28, 2021, 07:09:44 AM
Scooters are a more economical way when feeder buses are not supported by density.

E-scooters definitely are a key to helping fill the gaps in first and last mile journeys. But to say Upper Kedron is a low density, suburban suburb so it doesn't justify a feeder bus is just illogical. The new Ellendale Estate is around a 4km ride to Ferny Grove station, which is probably up there with a more lengthier journey by scooter. There big missing part to this is no separated bike lanes to the station. I drove out to Ellendale the other day to have a look around (because I'm not crazy enough to try and even complete this journey by bus) and man, Canvey Road between Levitt Rd and Brockman Dr is so wide, yet they still have bike lanes on the road side of the parked cars . Why not have them on the kerb side, protected from both passing traffic, and the dangerous "door zone"?
Like this:


There really is no incentive to use a bike or e-scooter around here.

But Brisbane is one big sprawling, low density conurbation. As crap as that is (it is so distressing seeing all these new developments in the middle of nowhere like Logan Reserve, Flagstone, Yarrabilba, Park Ridge, Ripley, Narrangba West etc. when there is so much valuble land around train stations taken up by car spaces), it just means that we actually need to pump more resources into transport due to the longer distances needed to be travelled to capture this sparse population.

You can't attract or grow patronage with low frequency services. So sometimes you may need to provide slightly more services than what may be required to still provide that attractive and viable alternative to the car, so people can choose how they travel. Upper Kedron is a key example. Ideally, you would have the 367 running every 15 mins off-peak to meet every train (every 30 mins at the bare minimum) so people can actually leave the car at home (or live in the suburbs but still be able to ditch the car altogether!).

This new TOD at Ferny is a great step forward in getting people closer to transport and key services (such as supermarkets, gyms, cinemas etc.). But it just seems that we are all too focussed on getting people to these key transport and community hubs by car, when there is so much potential and opportunity for other ways!

The developer is not (and should not be) responsible for the ongoing costs of the bus network.  The only reason they are getting so many commuter car parks built is because it is probably part of the returnable works required as part of the project (ie it is a convenient way for the State to deliver something off their own books).  The site actually has parking maximums for the retail and residential components, rather than minimums.

Not sure where else to post this, but I just stumbled across this paywalled CM article today, saying that a major high density development adjacent Springfield Central station has been "scuttled"

https://www.couriermail.com.au/business/qld-business/a-chinesebacked-scheme-to-build-up-to-10000-units-in-20-towers-at-springfield-has-collapsed/news-story/ed998b381857f1df782cc5ba8c7fdf45?amp

This is the first I'd heard of this development but it's the kind of density i want for Springfield Central. Here's some limited information I could find about the master plan for the area:

https://placedesigngroup.com/projects/springfield-city-centre-north/

Does anyone know more about this project, or what was the cause of it being "scuttled" as CM puts it.

(Side note I hate how they need to add that it's "Chinese-backed" in the headline, just to get clicks from sensationalism. Feels very racist. Classic CM)

In and around Ferny Grove station and the adjacent TOD June 24.

p.s. The station has level boarding and renewed Translink branding as seen on the smart ticketing gates and ticket machines.

Ha, thanks v9.  Save me posting mine from yesterday.  Certainly coming on it is. 

Couriermail Quest --> Airport hotel, transport hub, high street retail: Five experts reveal what should replace Toombul $

QuoteAn airport hotel, a transport-oriented community and a walkable, tree-lined high street-style shopping strip - what should replace Toombul Shopping Centre?

Development giant Mirvac's confirmation this week that it will rebuild retail, open space and "amenity'' on the flood-ravaged Toombul Shopping Centre site has sparked debate about what will end up there.

We asked the local state MP, the national retail lobby, a public transport advocate, an urban planning expert and a university business school professor their thoughts on what could — or should — rise up on the 16ha inner-north site. ...

Townhouses going up in greenfield development in Pimpama, Gold Coast.

While townhouses contribute to increased density, it's not really a unique nor classified as a TOD project.

When are they going to start the Albion TOD? This project has been plagued with delays.

QuoteWhile townhouses contribute to increased density, it's not really a unique nor classified as a TOD project.

When are they going to start the Albion TOD? This project has been plagued with delays.

This is another issue with TODs. They seem to take forever to put together and develop.

The bigger the building, the more complex the design, approvals, and potential objections.

In any case, TOD is only a fraction of the solution. The land area available for TOD <<< Rest of City.

Dwellings = Density x Area

For TOD the density is high but the area very limited.
For DOT the density is low but the area available is much much wider (provided BCC changes planning rules)

In an ideal case, you would seek to leverage both.

For this reason, allowing townhouses across BCC generally is really important IMHO.

As metro said Albion has its own issues due to its size, multiple property owners and existing and required infrastructure (this is public and private services such as sewage, water, Telstra telecommunications and QR fibre optic services. This years flood as an example put another spanner in the works. TMR has also revised their future flood maps which is going to have an impact on any Toombul tod along with already impacting on the Albion tod. Then you have the pandemic which has put a big bump in the road. Anyway nothing will happen until crr is completed as property has been reserved for future crr works.

Just because some services have to be relocated doesn't mean a project has to occur major delays.

By the way this project is meant to be completed in stages. Therefore there is no reason for delays due to the size of the project.

Can you really call Albion Exchange a TOD?

Doing a quick search on Albion, the developer's website states about 800+ apartments are going to be created. So far, so good. We don't know what proportion of apartments are going to be single or multiple occupancy. https://albionexchange.com.au/vision/

But this development will have 1500+ car parking spaces.*  This means 800 apartments/1500 car parks = 1.8 car parks per dwelling. So most residents (75%) will be driving then? Wouldn't it be more accurate then to call it a TAD (Transit Adjacent Development).

To get the TOD-label, wouldn't it be reasonable to expect that the PT/AT component be the majority component, so say at least 50% or higher?

I don't know how much underground car parking space cost to construct, but let's say it cost $30,000 per space. This developer will spend around 1500 car parks x $30,000 each = ~ $45,000,000 just on underground car parking. Imagine if they paid say half that instead as a future transport fee to TransLink and in exchange got the right to build only say 400 car parks?

Doing that would mean:
- Cheaper to build for the developer
- TransLink gets an additional revenue source
- More passengers

Assuming PT=25% this development would generate about 1600 walk up trips per day from residents. Which is not bad. But it could be a lot more with fewer car parks.

Unfortunately the developer is subject to BCC's insane parking minimums, as the site is not a state PDA. I know an architect who works on many high rise developments and he (and others in the construction industry, according to him) HATE these parking minimums, because as you've rightly pointed out, underground parking is extremely expensive to construct.

He also points out that if society shifts away from personal car ownership over the next 50 years, these high-rises will need to find uses to convert these carparks into

If this parking is our criteria for calling something a TOD then we'll have no TOD's under the current BCC parking minimum's.

On this site I notice we tend to discuss TODs as single developments rather than TOD as a broader planning approach.

Under the latter the individual projects don't matter as much as allowing increased densities removing parking minimums or implementing parking maximums. I think under the latter perspective townhouses being used to triple density in outer suburban stations like Rothwell would be fair to term as Transit Oriented Development.

Absolutely I agree. I view the increased apartment density around Garden City as a form of TOD. Or BCC's rezoning of the Magic Mile at Moorooka to apartments, that counts too in my books. It's just not a specific TMR-led project, because those ones as listed on the TMR website are all built on state government owned land

Quote from: verbatim9 on December 26, 2022, 18:16:02 PMJust because some services have to be relocated doesn't mean a project has to occur major delays.

By the way this project is meant to be completed in stages. Therefore there is no reason for delays due to the size of the project.

I know it's in stages. TMR is using the old ohle facility as a crr storage area. But it's still one of many things that have to be worked out. There are a lot of services that have to be removed and rerouted which at times can not be done in stages but first up. Parking is another issue. As part of Albion losing its parking structure one of the new buildings will have additional parking for station commuters. And as I mentioned flood mapping and storm surges are an issue now as some development sections are now on a flood map and revised storm surge mapping. From photos I saw this year flood water got quite close to Moore street and quite close to Albion road further west. And as I also said the pandemic has not helped considering the developers were already looking at scaling back the project just before the pandemic started.