RAIL - Back On Track Forum

A six lane motorway + rail tunnel is ludicrous and would cost far more than $9.5bn. However, the corridor is owned by the State Government, not council, correct? Which means that BCC can whinge all it wants, it doesn't actually mean anything.

Not that the state government is faultless in this either, as they should have progressed work on this corridor YEARS ago, before the traffic situation on Gympie road/waterworks road etc. got this bad

I have been booked for an interview with 7 News this afternoon.

This is the current status of NWTC according to DTMR

https://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Community-and-environment/Planning-for-the-future/Preserved-transport-corridors/North-West-Transport-Corridor

History

The corridor's origins date to the 1960s in the landmark Wilbur Smith and Associates Brisbane Transportation Study. The study recommended a North West freeway between the Brisbane CBD and Aspley via the suburbs of Grange and Everton Park.
While the freeway concept was abandoned in the 1970s, this section of the original freeway corridor was kept for future use as an arterial road.
The corridor was preserved in the early 1980s based on current planning standards for a 4-lane median-divided road.
In recent years, the corridor has evolved from a motorway project to an integrated transport corridor that caters for walking, cycling, rail and road.

Current status

The Western Brisbane Transport Network Investigation identified the North West Transport Corridor as a key part of the network strategy that would provide significant benefits to the transport network if developed.

The multi-modal rail, road and active transport route would run along the preserved North West Transport Corridor connecting into the Stafford Road Tunnel and Inner Orbital tunnel.

The transport corridor would allow greater public transport and active transport opportunities by providing 'turn-up-and-go' rail services and a high-quality cycleway along the corridor.

^ I don't think it will ever be used now for anything other than a mixed use active transport path on the surface.

Maybe we need to rethink rail.  For example tunnel after Exhibition to north of Northgate on the Northern line (say around Sunshine).  Quad the track from there where it would join through to Strathpine. This would allow some fancy dancing for trains heading to the Sunny Coast. 

Councils own surveys show a landslide level of support for the nwtc.

Strongest support for rail ...

More goodies, when they dot point the benefits of the NWTN suite of projects, the first ones all focus on PT / Active transport, with the motorway connection down lower.

But the funny thing is, none of those first dot points require the motorway to exist 



They also claim that the NW motorway will fix Problem 1 - rail congestion 

QuoteI have been booked for an interview with 7 News this afternoon.

This is the current status of NWTC according to DTMR

Could you consider telling 7 News that the peak hour capacity of the motorway is just ~ 6000 pphd with 3 lanes (6 total)? And that this less capacity than the current SE Busway (capacity 18 000 pphd).

If anything, they should build a motorway and only run buses on it.

- With rail, BCC has made a logical error. Because the corridor surface cannot be used, the rail tunnel now does NOT have to follow the Trouts road corridor.

- It can actually follow one of the motorway options and be placed straight under Gympie Road, RRR trains could theoretically arrive at Westfield Chermside in 8-10 minutes (assuming 100 km/hr operation and sparse station spacing over the 13 km distance). BRT can go on top filling in the intermediate stops.

- There is no basis for creating an "add on motorway" for "space for displaced motorists" as peak train capacity far exceeds that of the motorway. That is just promoting Car Rapid Transit and trying to get a motorway approved using non-existent public transport credentials. (Just what they did with Legacy way tunnel).

- Train capacity would be ~ 3x that of the motorway.

Why has BCC chosen the lowest capacity option and also the slowest one as trains are not limited to 100 km/hr as cars on a motorway are?   

We had the BaT tunnel come and go ...

Now joined in failed non-progress with the CaT tunnel ..

^ thanks #Metro.  Depends a bit on the interview form, but good points.

Quote3.3.2 Why are the motorway and Bus Rapid Transit packaged together as a single project? It is recommended that the North West Motorway is packaged with the BRT as a single project because the two initiatives are complementary in nature. The motorway will alleviate private vehicle travel demand on Gympie Road to support the reallocation of road space to BRT. Without the delivery of the motorway, a BRT in the form proposed is not feasible due to its impact on road capacity. Delivery of the North West Motorway is needed to (1) support the economic development plans of the SEQ region as it continues to grow, and (2) avoid the need to widen the Gympie Road corridor to deliver BRT and the associated significant property impacts and infrastructure costs.

I read this and its not a good statement at all. Page 17.

This is of course a claim I don't agree with. The Gympie Road corridor contained an exclusive tramway corridor all the way to Chermside. When the tram network was shut down, those lanes were reallocated to Cars (CRT).

The problem for BCC is that it is fairly straightforward to demonstrate that including BRT increases capacity, even by resuming a lane from general traffic.

- If BRT removes one lane from Gympie Road, that is a loss of 1450 - 2000 pphd.

- Running Brisbane Metro bus services every 2 minutes would give a capacity of 30 x 150 = 4500 pphd.

- That is a net gain of + 2500 pphd, which is like adding an additional lane of traffic to Gympie Road.

- So in other words, we can accomodate all the road users who drove in the lane that was lost AND we have +2500 pphd left over for regular PT users. It could be more if the buses could be run closer together (say every 60 seconds or so, which I think they can).

- If more capacity is required, you would look at potentially an LRT option. Capacity of that would be about 10,000 pphd and above.

- We haven't yet considered the calculation where we add rail capacity to rail in a tunnel under Gympie Road.

BCC might have got away with their Legacy Way tunnel and their claim of "2000 daily express buses" last time around but I don't think they can pull the same thing a second time.

Remember this?   

Quote from: #Metro on August 10, 2022, 13:09:14 PM

Quote3.3.2 Why are the motorway and Bus Rapid Transit packaged together as a single project? It is recommended that the North West Motorway is packaged with the BRT as a single project because the two initiatives are complementary in nature. The motorway will alleviate private vehicle travel demand on Gympie Road to support the reallocation of road space to BRT. Without the delivery of the motorway, a BRT in the form proposed is not feasible due to its impact on road capacity. Delivery of the North West Motorway is needed to (1) support the economic development plans of the SEQ region as it continues to grow, and (2) avoid the need to widen the Gympie Road corridor to deliver BRT and the associated significant property impacts and infrastructure costs.

I read this and its not a good statement at all. Page 17.

This is of course a claim I don't agree with. The Gympie Road corridor contained an exclusive tramway corridor all the way to Chermside. When the tram network was shut down, those lanes were reallocated to Cars (CRT).

The problem for BCC is that it is fairly straightforward to demonstrate that including BRT increases capacity, even by resuming a lane from general traffic.

- If BRT removes one lane from Gympie Road, that is a loss of 1450 - 2000 pphd.

- Running Brisbane Metro bus services every 2 minutes would give a capacity of 30 x 150 = 4500 pphd.

- That is a net gain of + 2500 pphd, which is like adding an additional lane of traffic to Gympie Road.

- So in other words, we can accomodate all the road users who drove in the lane that was lost AND we have +2500 pphd left over for regular PT users. It could be more if the buses could be run closer together (say every 60 seconds or so, which I think they can).

- We haven't yet considered the calculation where we add rail capacity to rail in a tunnel under Gympie Road.

BCC might have got away with their Legacy Way tunnel and their claim of "2000 daily express buses" last time around but I don't think they can pull the same thing a second time.

Remember this?   

BCC can't even make the new transit lanes they are making along Gympie Road 24/7 because there will be loss of parking for a couple hundred people max. What hope is there for a resumption of a lane for transit unless there is a serious shakeup in both the Council and State governments. This whole case study has once again proven how antiquated the urban planning practices are in BCC.

This above survey of overwhelming support for rail needs to be jammed down the throat of the council and especially State Government as they will be asked for funding.

Quote from: ozbob on August 10, 2022, 11:27:07 AMMaybe we need to rethink rail.  For example tunnel after Exhibition to north of Northgate on the Northern line (say around Sunshine).  Quad the track from there where it would join through to Strathpine. This would allow some fancy dancing for trains heading to the Sunny Coast. 

Good point. The comparison project for fast-rail-via-Trouts would be 6-tracking to (at least) the Airport junction and 4-tracking from Northgate to (at least) Strathpine.

I have mixed feelings nowadays about local rail via Trouts into the inner Ferny line. It's a bear of a junction to make work and a tunnel into CRR would be 30% shorter from Alderley to the city, and much faster.

I think overall it should still use trout's rd, its as much about speed as it is about improving the catchment area.

In terms of routing, I could live with via inner FG initially.

And then down the track go the whole hog with a tunnel into the CBD, which could link up to ekka or vic park, or it could even follow an entirely new route through the CBD...

Quote from: ozbob on August 10, 2022, 11:27:07 AM^ I don't think it will ever be used now for anything other than a mixed use active transport path on the surface.

Maybe we need to rethink rail.  For example tunnel after Exhibition to north of Northgate on the Northern line (say around Sunshine).  Quad the track from there where it would join through to Strathpine. This would allow some fancy dancing for trains heading to the Sunny Coast. 

It is time for the Lord Mayor to die on his sword of:

1. expensive but not increasing capacity bi-artic buses;
2. cancelling the key projects that could have reduced congestion - aka bikeways;
3. air-taxis; and
3. a 6 lane road-tunnel in the 2020's?

There is no better definition of Out of Touch than the above!!

Sent to all outlets:

BCC NWTN business case study, a farce that ignores its own findings!

11th August 2022

Brisbane City Council have released the findings of their NWTN (North west transport network) business case study (1,2).

In what is a surprise to nobody, BCC have concluded that a 6 lane motorway tunnel is their preferred solution despite this being completely opposite to the community preference for rail in the consultation process.

Robert Dow said:

"The quick explanation is the BCC did a consultation which found 57% wanted public transport and 26% wanted roads, with the strongest support for rail, all reinforced by detailed feedback.

What we've got instead is $9.5b proposed for a 6 lane tunnel by 2031, a token $1.3b for a Gympie Road busway, with the rail component pushed out to 2041.

Its a farce of the highest order that public transport is such a strong community priority but only gets 12% of the dollars before the Olympics under their proposal."

At an estimated cost of $9.5b, it would be the most expensive transport project in SEQ by a great margin, eclipsing Cross River Rail ($5.4b) , AirportLink ($4.8b) and approaching the cost of the entire Bruce Highway Upgrade ($13b).

By it's own admission, BCC states:

"Poor access, comfort and connectivity of public and active transport within, and through, north-west Brisbane creates an unsustainable and excessive reliance on private vehicles."

"High-capacity public transport in Brisbane's north-west is limited to the North Coast Line and Ferny Grove rail line and small sections of busway, resulting in a reliance on bus services running in general traffic."

So it's clear that  public transport is lacking, and would be a key cause of the traffic issues the area faces.

But here's where it gets absurd:

"The recommended sequencing for Program 4a and Program 4b includes the delivery of BRT and a North West Motorway as a single project by 2031."

"The NWTN program business case identified North West Rail for delivery post-2031 but within the program's planning horizon of 2041"

In other words, BCC want a motorway within the next decade, but are happy to push rail out to the never never to 2041 as a low priority!

This is reinforced by the proposed detailed business case (DBC) only proposing to investigate:

- North West Motorway
- BRT
- North West Active Transport Route
- Biodiversity Corridor

It didn't take long for rail has completely drop off the at this point!

BCC falsely claim that the motorway is needed to complete the busway to Bracken Ridge.
This is false. If they want to build a busway, then just build a 2 lane busway tunnel.
This is cheaper than the backwards approach of building a 6 lane motorway tunnel to 'free up' space.

Logic would dictate that the community preference for rail improvements and the coming 2032 Olympics would mean having rail in place first? Furthermore, prioritising rail allows for a change in travel behaviour, potentially avoiding the expense of even having to build the motorway tunnel.

BCC's own consultation found that locals want (3):

57% improvements to public transport
26% improvements to roads
11% bike infrastructure
3%  parking
2%  pedestrian infrastructure

This was reinforced by 'quick poll' conducted during the consultation, with only 13% supporting new roads.

Later it said "public transport options are generally prioritised over road infrastructure options, however some stakeholders stated a need for both"

Other specific key quotes from the community consultation said:

"Rail was the most supported option and there was a good overall understanding of the regional, inter-regional and local transport benefits to be derived from rail."

"A new rail line through the NWTC (North west transport corridor) was the most supported idea in the online survey. There was expectation that a new rail line will be locally accessible and well connected with other public transport networks."

"When asked what modes of transport should be included in the corridor, the most supported modes were rail and shared active transport, followed by buses, roads, and separated active transport (e.g. dedicated bikeways)."

On the contrary, when it came to roads:

"The roads option had the lowest level of support but was still supported to an extent."

"Across all data collection methods, the road ideas presented were the least preferred."

"Council received 541 pieces of feedback for the five road ideas (see Table 4). Feedback provided indicated that the community broadly does not see new roads as the solution to the transport problems in the north-west and that a move to public transport is preferred."

In conclusion, despite a landslide level of support for public transport over roads, a $9.5b tunnel has snuck into the final proposal by BCC and trumped everything else.

Residents can therefore have no confidence that their preference for rail and public transport is being translated into council treating this as a #1 priority.

If people ever wonder why we lag on public transport and climate action, it is because of this exact kind of behaviour by authorities.

RAIL Back on track would support a hybrid solution for the NWTC.

This would include:

- Above ground rail on low impact sections
- Underground rail in environmentally sensitive sections, including a 3km tunnel under Chermside Hill Reserve
- A walking / cycling path the full length of the corridor.

5 Key benefits of Rail on the NWTC

- Would provide rail access to an area of Brisbane that are a long way from any rail line or busway, saving time and improving quality of life.

- Would provide a double benefit to the Sunshine Coast / Moreton Bay, since it gives a new fast straight direct route for trains into Brisbane (With provision of express tracks during construction)

- Would allow currently long bus journeys in the North West to become much shorter, by feeding into new rail stations.

- Helps reduce emissions, compared to new roads, which will increase emissions

-Allows residents to escape congestion, since the entire transport network is roads based, and both cars and buses get caught in congestion.

It is worth noting the completion of Northern Busway along Gympie Road is proposed as part of NWTN Study, and this is a worthy project, but would address a different set of (more local) needs than what rail on the NWTC would achieve. The two projects serve different catchment areas.

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

References:

1. https://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/traffic-and-transport/roads-infrastructure-and-bikeways/bridges-tunnels-culverts-and-transport-links/north-west-transport-network

2. https://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/2022-08/20220809-north-west-transport-network-making-it-happen.pdf

3. https://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/2022-08/20220809-north-west-tranport-network-community-consultation-report-stage2.pdf

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Brisbanetimes --> Trains, not cars, should run along proposed tunnel on Brisbane's northside

QuoteTrains – not cars – should run along Brisbane's proposed underground North West Transport Corridor by 2031, a rail lobby group believes.

Rail Back on Track says this would provide flexibility on the North Coast Line to run 160km/h fast trains to the Sunshine Coast.

Spokesman Robert Dow said on Wednesday it would enable additional trains to run on the planned spur from Beerwah to Caloundra and Maroochydore, providing better transport links between the Sunshine Coast and Brisbane for the 2032 Olympic and Paralympic Games.

"Those fast trains going out to Maroochydore could run through a rail tunnel underneath the North West Transport Corridor, back onto the main northern line – about Strathpine – and then from there all the way to Beerwah," he said. ...

" ... Transport Minister Mark Bailey on Tuesday rejected the six-lane motorway as a "feeble plan." ... "

https://twitter.com/railbotforum/status/1557377512962895872

https://twitter.com/7NewsBrisbane/status/1557296014071017473

As one of many in the area who took the time to respond (thinking there was real interest in providing a proper solution to an increasing problem), I am more than disappointed in what I've seen and read in the last couple of days. In my opinion BCC have lost any interest in actually governing for all of Brisbane.

My initial worry that the Everton Park bypass was the thin edge of the wedge to yet another unnecessary motorway (Toll road - seriously??) seems validated by BCC's Business Case "findings".

It's telling that the local councillor who's ward takes into most of the affected area, remains silent. Still I look forward to receiving another glossy flyer from them (and/or the mayor) in the coming days. Because that'll appease the concerns of a disaffected, disillusioned, disappointed community...

Frustrating...
       

Quote from: Monster on August 11, 2022, 07:28:50 AMAs one of many in the area who took the time to respond (thinking there was real interest in providing a proper solution to an increasing problem), I am more than disappointed in what I've seen and read in the last couple of days. In my opinion BCC have lost any interest in actually governing for all of Brisbane.

My initial worry that the Everton Park bypass was the thin edge of the wedge to yet another unnecessary motorway (Toll road - seriously??) seems validated by BCC's Business Case "findings".

It's telling that the local councillor who's ward takes into most of the affected area, remains silent. Still I look forward to receiving another glossy flyer from them (and/or the mayor) in the coming days. Because that'll appease the concerns of a disaffected, disillusioned, disappointed community...

Frustrating...
       

Time to rally the troops in the local area and make lots of noise about how the community has been completely ignored and that more roads just = more congestion not less!!.  Protest right outside local members office!!!

QuoteTime to rally the troops in the local area and make lots of noise about how the community has been completely ignored and that more roads just = more congestion not less!!.  Protest right outside local members office!!!

+1 

TRAINS not LANES

Quote from: Jonno on August 11, 2022, 11:03:54 AM

Quote from: Monster on August 11, 2022, 07:28:50 AMAs one of many in the area who took the time to respond (thinking there was real interest in providing a proper solution to an increasing problem), I am more than disappointed in what I've seen and read in the last couple of days. In my opinion BCC have lost any interest in actually governing for all of Brisbane.

My initial worry that the Everton Park bypass was the thin edge of the wedge to yet another unnecessary motorway (Toll road - seriously??) seems validated by BCC's Business Case "findings".

It's telling that the local councillor who's ward takes into most of the affected area, remains silent. Still I look forward to receiving another glossy flyer from them (and/or the mayor) in the coming days. Because that'll appease the concerns of a disaffected, disillusioned, disappointed community...

Frustrating...
       

Time to rally the troops in the local area and make lots of noise about how the community has been completely ignored and that more roads just = more congestion not less!!.  Protest right outside local members office!!!

Exactly.

It's no just the fact that roads are a bad solution that are low capacity.

It's the fact that there was an extensive consultation process and they actually had 3d renderings showing rail as a legitimate option. But then they just whacked in a $9.5b toll road in by stealth, and presented this false choice that you need to build a road tunnel in order to build the busway.
This is despite the fact that a plan for a fully underground busway to Chermside has been in the public domain for many years (with parts already built) and the Chermside busway has never been contingent on a motorway existing. It has always been a standalone project to this point.



I encourage EVERYONE on Rail back on track to write to your local councillor expressing your disgust that public demands for public transport, specfically rail, have somehow resulted in a transport proposal where most money goes to a road.

Quote from: ozbob on August 10, 2022, 11:27:07 AM^ I don't think it will ever be used now for anything other than a mixed use active transport path on the surface.

Maybe we need to rethink rail.  For example tunnel after Exhibition to north of Northgate on the Northern line (say around Sunshine).  Quad the track from there where it would join through to Strathpine. This would allow some fancy dancing for trains heading to the Sunny Coast. 

I agree.

NWTC owes it's existence to the 1960s freeway plan.  This plan included radial freeways that were designed to separate city bound traffic from local traffic.  Where the city's existing arterial roads already hosted a substantial amount of local amenities, and thus carried a substantial amount of local traffic (Logan Rd in the south, Moggill Rd in the west, Gympie Rd in the north), a fully grade separated freeway was to be constructed roughly parallel with limited connection to the local street network, and a routing that would avoid local activity centres.  The extensive local function of the existing road would continue, while the arterial function of these roads would be superseded by the freeway.  In places where the existing arterial roads had relatively little flanking development, an "expressway" would be built instead to take over both the local and arterial function of the road it replaced.

Within this framework, the NWTC was designed as a freeway, and as such, it was laid out to avoid as many activity centres as possible, and to interconnect with the local transport network infrequently.  As such, it has always been a pretty rubbish corridor for transit.  It misses the activity centres at Newmarket, Stafford, Everton Park, chermside, Brookside, Aspley and Carseldine.  The surrounding development is very low density for a heavy transit line catchment, and the street network faces generally away from the corridor, which adds just a little extra inconvenience.

About the only thing NWTC had going for it as a transit corridor was that it existed.  But it was only a major priority because it could help provide a higher speed alternative to the twisted Albion to Northgate corridor.  Improving transport to the Stafford Heights, McDowall and Bridgeman Downs (all very low density areas) was a nice to have side effect, but nowhere near a major priority in it's own right.

With surface development along the NWTC seeming like an ever more distant possibility, this corridor now seems like a very, very expensive way of addressing the problems between Albion and Northgate.  A much more circumspect tunnel from Bowen Hills to somewhere near Albert Bishop park, and quadding of the quite spacious existing corridor up through Strathpine seems like a much better option for the money.

On behalf of Robert Dow, I will be talking to 4BC radio's Neil Breen at 4:45pm this afternoon on this North West Transport Network plan.

https://twitter.com/Jeffrey_Addison/status/1557575318843834368

The NW transport corridor is dead, unless they run trains underground along that corridor.

It's likely that the corridor will be preserved as a nature strip and active transport corridor, due to the surrounding density.

I reckon this road tunnel and BRT surface plan along Gympie Rd will go ahead, as it will be fast tracked through Infrastructure Australia, thus attracting Federal and Olympic funding with a completion date prior to 2032.

P.s. I also reckon TMR have wasted a lot of time getting their version of transit lanes up and running. This was first announced back in 2017, I believe.

TMR Northern Transitway---> Northern Transitway

Why would infrastructure Australia fast track it?

Labor are in power at the federal level now, so its unlikely road projects that dont stack up with a viable business case will get approved by 2032.

This was done under the previous government (LNP feds giving $10m to an LNP council)

No support from the state level, so will go nowhere.

Thanks FF for standing in (I was unavailable due to grand child care duties).

Well done!  Important messages across.  Love the cameo re Anzac Square by Neil towards the end.



PS I have been booked for another interview on 4BC this Saturday morning (13th August) about 7.30am.

https://twitter.com/Jeffrey_Addison/status/1557675282949361664

====

Interview here as well --> https://backontrack.org/docs/4bc/4bc_ja_11aug22.mp3 MP3 4.6 MB

Fantastic work drumming up some noise on this - the motorway plan is a joke, and this represents a great opportunity to get a fast(er) corridor north for services that need it.

As for the density issue, I really don't think it is one. Induced demand works for rail as well, and if we as a state build and zone expecting higher density in the future, then when the time comes to upzone we'll be well prepared

https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=3664.0

From the North West News 14th April 2010 pages 1 and 3

On track





Thanks for the interest North West News!

====

I went out to the corridor today (April 2010) to have a look.  Wide corridor, double track would fit comfortably ..

Some photographs around Everton Park  Flockston St










EMU01 on a Ferny Grove Service at Gaythorne





Photographs R Dow 9th April 2010

In all this media it rarely gets mentioned that building more road will just create more congestion!

Story is UP!

> https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/politics/queensland/council-scoped-out-new-brisbane-underground-with-suburban-stations-20220812-p5b9dr.html

Big fan of the RAIL 2 alignment under Gympie Road. Nice surprise.

Any chance we could perhaps meet with Cr Wines in an online Teams meeting and BCC to just exchange views? I believe he is the chair of the BCC transport committee.

RAIL1

Credit - BCC; NORTH WEST TRANSPORT CORRIDOR STUDY AUGUST 2022.

RAIL2

- Chermside would be an excellent interchange
- BRT on the surface of Gympie Road
- Many possibilities for rail to enter the NCL at different points, for example, a variation could be following the Bruce Hwy and actually placing a train station at Westfield North Lakes. How good would that be?


Credit - BCC; NORTH WEST TRANSPORT CORRIDOR STUDY AUGUST 2022.

I could live with either, the question is if we did the Gympie Rd route what happens to people on the NWTC who are still without infrastructure?

Gympie Rd gets everything (Rail and Busway).

Everywhere west is still a black hole.

The route shown for the NWTC seems to have excessive tunnelling. You could connect to the FG line more directly, or swing over via Ekka rather than all the way up at Albion.

Bob: I absolutely LOVE this quote from Bailey in the article. he's giving you (and RBOT in general) some well earned respect, while simultaneously shitting on BCC and the LNP!

QuoteRobert Dow has made a much more considered and balanced contribution on this matter than the Brisbane City Council who have ignored public feedback in their business case which overwhelmingly wanted better public transport not new tollways and motorways," Bailey told Brisbane Times.

"And Mr Dow did so free of charge and didn't waste $10 million of taxpayer's funds as the LNP have done with this business case."

I prefer RAIL 2 as the alignment (possibly with modifications at the northern connection).
It is essential to connect Chermside Shopping Centre. 

I am not automatically against roads as some RBOT members might be. The merit test applies.
Roads are just one of many possible options and modes. You also need roads to run buses on. 

The road grid is incomplete, so some comments/ideas about fixing that:

A local road project could be done to complete the Northside grid. Just normal 2-lane local roads with parking shoulders on either side, at-grade intersections with traffic lights, and a speed of 50 km/hr. This will help complete the grid pattern where we can run buses north-south and east-west to form the grid.

Local Road Projects

- East West Connector 1: Extend Cribb Rd across South Pine River, through Albany Creek, and connect this to Beams Road. This will allow a cross-beam of the road grid to be made and you can then run an east-west feeder bus along it, feeding into Carseldine Station at the midpoint.

A bus would travel from Albany Creek to Carseldine Station in 7 km, which would take roughly 15 minutes to do. This is good as the time budget people have to access stops & stations is ~ 10 minutes.

- Trouts Road Connector 2: Trouts Road is actually discontinuous. Trouts Rd (North) could be connected to Trouts Road (South) following the corridor that has been cleared to access the power transmission line in that area.

A connection road would also be made connecting Ridley Road over Cabbage Tree Creek to Albany Creek Road.

By building the Trouts Rd connector, a new North-South local bus route can travel 11 km from Carseldine to Enoggera Interchange and terminate there. Locals who drive cars will also benefit from the better local connectivity.

- Connector Road 3: Potentially connect Dawn Road at Keong Road in Albany Creek, and make a connection to Darien Street. This would have to run along the perimeter of the reserve there. This would allow buses and cars to run East-West and feed Geebung Station.

- Connector Road 4: Connect Bilsen Road to Bilsen Road across Cabbage Tree Creek. This will allow another simple North-South bus route to happen that could feed Sunshine Station.

- Connector Road 5: Connect Roghan Road (between Carseldine Rd and Gympie Rd) to Raynbird Place. Connect Raynbird Place to Cowie Place/Roghan Road in Carseldine. The local connector road would likely have to hug the perimeter of the park/go behind the houses as it is an environmentally valuable area.

This connector road would then rise up and over the NCL rail line to connect into Norris Road at Fitzgibbon. It would then connect to Roghan Road in Taigum (yes, Roghan Road is in three discontinuous parts)

This would allow a cross-town bus to run from Carseldine along Roghan Road in an East-West fashion to terminate at Boondall Rail station.

- Connector Road 6: Connect Barbour Road at Bald Hills, under the Gympie Arterial Road and into Cullimore Street in Bald Hills. This will allow simpler bus routing in the Bracken ridge area, and BUZ services could then potentially terminate at Bald Hills train station.

I have some ideas about PT on other roads, which I will post separately. 

In terms of improving Northside PT, build a busway! 

- Consider widening Old Northern Road and possibly also South Pine Road.
- Set a median busway  in the middle of Old Northern Road and South Pine Road.
- Put Brisbane Metro vehicles in it
- Terminate it at Enoggera Station (extending further is possible, but it means more $$$ for infra and BCC has to buy more metro bi-arctic buses

- If you have to boost the train frequency on the Ferny Grove line to every 10 minutes all day to make connections work, do that too.

- And before anyone asks 'What about bus lanes or T2 on the side of the road rather than the middle', this is possible too. Though I prefer median running as buses will not get caught behind left turning traffic and vehicles pulling out of driveways. Maybe a compromise here is to do it as T2 lanes initially while plans are drawn up to put it into the median.

As an interim measure, BCC should convert route 359 into a BUZ service, and consider reforming the bus network to terminate it at Enoggera interchange if they want to be cost effective.

Alternatively, BCC can spend much more and BUZ the 359 the extra ~ 8 km from Enoggera to Cultural Centre and retain the direct no-transfer philosophy (+$$$).

I think a Priority B busway using Brisbane Metro bi-arctic buses to feed rail at Enoggera (or alternatively not) will fix PT in that area.  

Brisbanetimes --> Council scoped out new Brisbane underground with suburban stations

QuoteBrisbane would get two new rail stations at Everton Park and Bridgeman Downs, as part of a 14-kilometre underground line between Albion to Strathpine, under a proposal considered by Brisbane City Council and sent to Infrastructure Australia.

The Everton Park station would be at Leach Street beside Stafford Road and adjacent to Everton Park State School. Symbolically, it is also part of the North West Transport Corridor that Brisbane City Council this week ruled cannot support above-ground development. ...

New underground rail stations could be built at Everton Park and Bridgeman Down on a western underground rail line from Albion to Strathpine or at Chermside under an eastern link from Albion to Carseldine. CREDIT:NORTH WEST TRANSPORT CORRIDOR BUSINESS CASE AUGUST 2022.



There would be an underground rail station at Chermside if a proposed 9.5km rail corridor from Exhibition line to Carseldine was approved. The red dotted line is the proposed underground rail line. The red full line is a new rail line on the ground from Carseldine to Strathpine.CREDIT:NORTH WEST TRANSPORT CORRIDOR AUGUST 2022.

Quote from: timh on August 12, 2022, 22:12:24 PMBob: I absolutely LOVE this quote from Bailey in the article. he's giving you (and RBOT in general) some well earned respect, while simultaneously shitting on BCC and the LNP!

QuoteRobert Dow has made a much more considered and balanced contribution on this matter than the Brisbane City Council who have ignored public feedback in their business case which overwhelmingly wanted better public transport not new tollways and motorways," Bailey told Brisbane Times.

"And Mr Dow did so free of charge and didn't waste $10 million of taxpayer's funds as the LNP have done with this business case."

Thanks Tim.  It has all been a bit odd this late discovery of the detailed ' rail component ' to the NWTN study. 
But their real sentiment is that they have tried to do is impose the motorway when their own constituent feedback supports public and active transport as the priority. Rail is pushed out to a late window up 2041.  Rail must be the priority.  I doubt the motorway toll road will see the light of day now. 
The State and many others are firmly against it.

https://twitter.com/Jeffrey_Addison/status/1558052270314749952