UQ Lakes bus congestion

[somebody]

A little birdie has told me that EcoSciences Precinct (adjacent to Park Rd Station) staff are unhappy with the bus services, especially in the evening heading SE (i.e. through Buranda & Griffith Uni).  Apparently, TTA are considering adding a UQ Lakes-Buranda route.  Fools!  Then why does the 209 need to detour via Woolloongabba?  Why is there no 159 UQ-Warrigal Rd route?  Etc, etc, etc.

It's one of the worst aspects of living in Brisbane that people think you cannot change things like the 209 via Gabba (milk run) routing!  An alternative service could be provided between UQ Lakes and the Gabba, I say extending to Bulimba.

[#Metro]

I don't understand. EcoSciences precinct has a train station AND a busway station. Why can't they just put on more 169 or 139 buses in the evening if that is the problem.

We need to have fewer, more frequent routes carrying more people.

[O_128]

A little birdie has told me that EcoSciences Precinct (adjacent to Park Rd Station) staff are unhappy with the bus services, especially in the evening heading SE (i.e. through Buranda & Griffith Uni).  Apparently, TTA are considering adding a UQ Lakes-Buranda route.  Fools!  Then why does the 209 need to detour via Woolloongabba?  Why is there no 159 UQ-Warrigal Rd route?  Etc, etc, etc.

It's one of the worst aspects of living in Brisbane that people think you cannot change things like the 209 via Gabba (milk run) routing!  An alternative service could be provided between UQ Lakes and the Gabba, I say extending to Bulimba.

Ive been thinking this for a while now, the 209 and the 200 should ( and from next year will be) routed via buranda. and create a 239 route from UQ lakes to bulimba, not only because the bulimba routes are stupidly timetabled ( instead of a 15 min frequency for the 230 and 235 they run withing 5 min of each other) but also because wynnum road has a terrible bus service and if anyones actually been down there its basically medium density all the way to cannon hill, its begging for a buz

[#Metro]

I used these services last week on Wynnum road. They are atrocious.
I rang TransLink on evening and was told to wait ONE HOUR for a bus. Madness

A BUZ service along Wynnum Road is a no-brainer. There are two options: run it all the way to the CBD or run it into Norman Park Rail station as a Feeder BUZ. The second option is problematic because Cleveland line frequency is the pits but this is a chicken-and-egg situation and the cycle of low connections-low rail frequency must be broken somewhere.

A BUZ service could go straight down Wynnum Road all the way to Manly Station on the Cleveland line.

[O_128]

I used these services last week on Wynnum road. They are atrocious.
I rang TransLink on evening and was told to wait ONE HOUR for a bus. Madness

A BUZ service along Wynnum Road is a no-brainer. There are two options: run it all the way to the CBD or run it into Norman Park Rail station as a Feeder BUZ. The second option is problematic because Cleveland line frequency is the pits but this is a chicken-and-egg situation and the cycle of low connections-low rail frequency must be broken somewhere.

A BUZ service could go straight down Wynnum Road all the way to Manly Station on the Cleveland line.

Ive been thinking this up for a while now. It is medium density development (lots of units) all the way to cannon hill and estates all the way to manly. If moggill can justify a buz then it makes no sense why wynnum road cant. The only hard thing would be whether to go via the gabba or the story bridge or even the captain cook bridge. Press release ??

[#Metro]

http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=5676.msg51185#msg51185 

[somebody]

I don't understand. EcoSciences precinct has a train station AND a busway station. Why can't they just put on more 169 or 139 buses in the evening if that is the problem.

We need to have fewer, more frequent routes carrying more people.

Haven't you read the frequent posts on this board about obscenely long queues at UQ Lakes in the evening?  People could only get on those buses to the degree that people get off at Park Rd.

159 is definitely justified in peak.  It has been justified for some time.  You are talking about the second busiest bus route in Brisbane in the 150.

EDIT: If they do introduce the UQ Lakes-Buranda route, that will do nothing for Warrigal Rd/Gowan Rd and nothing for 130/140 people, other than reduced congestion on the 139/169 routes.

[Golliwog]

I'm not saying we need a UQ Buranda route, but just to play devils advocate, if you did set it up, couldn't you have say 4 buses running that around and around, and re allocate buses from the 139/169 to whatever else so 130/140/150/etc?

[#Metro]

Hi Golliwog. You have just proposed the integrated solution!

And I agree. Instead of 300 people waiting for 109/169/139/209, you can cut down the number of bus routes by simply running a bus to Buranda Station and one to the CBD. So you would only have 2 bus routes. On the other hand, the loadings on these buses can get extremely high and the capacity of the vehicle that these people are changing into must be higher (or very frequent with space on board). 65 people trying to board one bus doing interchange might be a bit of a squish.

But the idea is very good. There is a lot of air being carried on the busway buses. Transfers will squeeze that air out of those vehicles, allow a more frequent service (because the route is shorter) and use the vehicle much more intensively.

[#Metro]

Haven't you read the frequent posts on this board about obscenely long queues at UQ Lakes in the evening?  People could only get on those buses to the degree that people get off at Park Rd.

I have read it, but of course the existence of a problem does not necessarily mean solution X, as other solutions Y, Z may also exist. UQ Lakes station is also suffering from chronic physical capacity constraints with many buses being delayed by other buses laying over or getting in the way or occupying the bus stops.

159 is definitely justified in peak.  It has been justified for some time.  You are talking about the second busiest bus route in Brisbane in the 150.

EDIT: If they do introduce the UQ Lakes-Buranda route, that will do nothing for Warrigal Rd/Gowan Rd and nothing for 130/140 people, other than reduced congestion on the 139/169 routes.

If anything I think 209 should be cut right back to Wooloongabba station. There are lots of buses to Carindale like the BUZ 200 and all the other 2xx routes inbetween. What's the justification for P88 style duplication here??? There is a nice bus turnaround at Wooloongabba station as well. Turnaround and go back...

You are correct that a buranda bus route will do nothing for BUZ 130/140/150 people. Those buses don't stop at that station, probably due to congestion chaos that would arise if they did stop there.

[somebody]

I'm not saying we need a UQ Buranda route, but just to play devils advocate, if you did set it up, couldn't you have say 4 buses running that around and around, and re allocate buses from the 139/169 to whatever else so 130/140/150/etc?

I've been thinking about that.

Firstly, Buranda has no proper turnaround facility.  You'd have to go Cornwall St/Earl St/Juliette St, or similar, but I doubt there is dedicated layover space anywhere near.
Secondly, I've been told that Buranda has pretty bad peak congestion already, and will only get worse with the Eastern Busway.
Thirdly, you cannot transfer to the 150 corridor at Buranda.

While you need to transfer at Buranda to use the 120/170/180/183 and the P119/171/P173/176/178/P179/181 rockets, this possibility is already provided.

159 is what is required.  It also needs to non stop Buranda, Greenslopes/Holland Park West as well for consistency.  Perhaps the lack of the UQ Lakes upgrade is what is holding it back.

[#Metro]

Buranda does not have a turnaround facility and is sub-optimal from a interchange and congestion perspective. However, what is stopping just more 139 or more 169 bus services being put on and making people change at Garden city to the 150 or at other stations to the 140?

You could put bendy buses/triaxles on both 169 and 139 bus routes.

I suspect that the UQ Lakes upgrade and whatever might be holding that up is the reason why TL is scratching its head. It is going to be very hard to fit more buses in there without more space. The thing needs to be doubled in size IMHO with a proper bus layover area like Wooloongabba station.

[somebody]

I support the BT/BCC strategy of maximisiing the opportunity to interchange but minimising the need.

In answer to your question re: what is wrong with extra 169/139 service with interchange?  That requires extra 150 services which need to be carrying air to Griffith Uni/Garden City to allow for the interchange.  Some people might interchange at Griffith Uni which is also a straining interchange, apparently.

You could start some 150s at Garden City, but what is the single advantage of doing so?  There is only disadvantage, and you are increasing the amount of air the 169 has to carry to 8 mile plains (please don't say that the 169 doesn't carry air to 8 mile plains: it carries some air).  Ending a run and starting a new one has some overhead.

I'm getting tired of these kinds of arguments.  Surely you are able to think of the issues with such things before you hit the post button?

[#Metro]

I support the BT/BCC strategy of maximisiing the opportunity to interchange but minimising the need.

I think in many cases this is justified (you would not terminate 199 at South Brisbane station would you now?), but, sometimes I think this is the
backdoor defence for "do not feed rail at all costs". Many of these so-called "opportunities" are actually pseudo-transfers, that is, you can connect on paper, but in practice the connection is nigh impossible.

The only thing worse than "forced interchange" is "forced low frequency" everywhere.

In answer to your question re: what is wrong with extra 169/139 service with interchange?  That requires extra 150 services which need to be carrying air to Griffith Uni/Garden City to allow for the interchange.  Some people might interchange at Griffith Uni which is also a straining interchange, apparently.

Many people would have got off from 150 services so I think there would be spaces. A lot of people get off at Garden City, there should be space on the bus from thereon.
Although I am not against a 159 UQ Lakes, I have to say that station needs serious expansion to accommodate all these new bus services.
By all means, you're welcome to promote a 159 UQ Lakes service. Don't let me stop you there. 

You could start some 150s at Garden City, but what is the single advantage of doing so?  There is only disadvantage, and you are increasing the amount of air the 169 has to carry to 8 mile plains (please don't say that the 169 doesn't carry air to 8 mile plains: it carries some air).  Ending a run and starting a new one has some overhead.

I'm getting tired of these kinds of arguments.  Surely you are able to think of the issues w
ith such things before you hit the post button?

There are busways which operate on an interchange basis, and they are called "closed BRT". The Brisbane busway is "open BRT" but I don't know how long this is going to last.
Every time you want to expand capacity, particularly during peak hour, you have to buy more and more and more buses and hire more people. If 159 UQ Lakes bus routes are required, more bus operators and more buses are required because during peak hour pretty much everything is in use.

When I look at the busway now in peak hour, I can see battalions of buses that are just a few seconds behind the next bus. They are about maybe a metre or two apart. At high levels of patronage busways become inefficient relative to rail operation. We need higher trunk capacity.

[Golliwog]

FYI, there is a bus turnaround going in as part of the Eastern Busway to Main Avenue, but its right before the Langlands busway station, so a bit of a hike.

TT, I can see your point about improving the interchange and reducing the number of UQ to everywhere routes, but I don't think adding a 6th service to the busway station is going to break it. Its not like UQ is just some suburb, it has quite a large population of students and staff.

I also think that perhaps the overcrowding issues could be solved (at least on the 109 anyway) by increasing the train frequency, and fixing up peak starters. I see far more people interchanging from trains to bus in the morning peak than I see going the other way in the evening. There are some who do it off peak, but not a massive number. When a number of peak services heading north all start from Roma St, you've got a better chance of making your connection if you catch the bus to the city. Or heck, even change at CC and catch any of the services that go on the busway through Roma St.

As for fitting it in, route 209 has stob B and UQ Lakes all to itself. If the 139/169 can share stop C, I think a 159 could share B with the 209. I will concede though, that in peak stop C does get a bit hectic when one route already has a bus filling, and the other route needs to start as well. They can squeeze in behind there, which can kind of happen with B, but the problem with that is that the 2nd bus in B would be blocking the bus thats in stop C in. This could be managed with good timetabling though, although not really optimal.

[ozbob]

UQ Lakes is a testament to the BCC obstinately blocking the upgrade.  Money is available, the BCC is just sitting on it.

The AVVM was installed because it was again apparent that BCC was playing more games, and the then Minister and TransLink decided to install one anyway. 

Can do?  Hardly likely folks ...

[somebody]

UQ Lakes is a testament to the BCC obstinately blocking the upgrade.  Money is available, the BCC is just sitting on it.

The AVVM was installed because it was again apparent that BCC was playing more games, and the then Minister and TransLink decided to install one anyway. 

Can do?  Hardly likely folks ...

In NSW there is a Land and Environment court to overrule councils who breach their own or the state's planning guidelines.  Does such a thing exist here?

[somebody]

The other thing which annoyed me about this one, is that there while was a suggestion of using the train to reach Buranda, there was no suggestion of using the train to reach Altandi and Fruitgrove for the 130, 140 and 150 services

[longboi]

UQ Lakes is a testament to the BCC obstinately blocking the upgrade.  Money is available, the BCC is just sitting on it.

The AVVM was installed because it was again apparent that BCC was playing more games, and the then Minister and TransLink decided to install one anyway. 

Can do?  Hardly likely folks ...

In NSW there is a Land and Environment court to overrule councils who breach their own or the state's planning guidelines.  Does such a thing exist here?

Yep. The Planning and Environment Court.

[dwb]

UQ Lakes is a testament to the BCC obstinately blocking the upgrade.  Money is available, the BCC is just sitting on it.

The AVVM was installed because it was again apparent that BCC was playing more games, and the then Minister and TransLink decided to install one anyway. 

Can do?  Hardly likely folks ...

I just noticed the following bit about UQ Lakes... does anyone know if the State or TL have said anything else about it publicly? For instance what does the PTO stand for - how do you turn an email page over?!

Transport and Multicultural Affairs
The Honourable Annastacia Palaszczuk

Tuesday, June 14, 2011

Budget delivers $1.8 billion for a better transport future


The Bligh Government will invest a massive $1.8 billion in transport infrastructure in the 2011-12 Budget to deliver better public transport and drive forward key transport projects such as the Gold Coast Rapid Transit System and Moreton Bay Rail Link.

Transport Minister Annastacia Palaszczuk said some of the biggest transport projects in the country are now underway in Queensland and this budget would ensure that continues.

"The State Government is committed to improving public transport and this funding will help bolster services, ease congestion, help to tackle climate change and deal with our growing population," Ms Palaszczuk said.

"This year's budget will see a further $175 million invested in the Gold Coast Rapid Transit System and $93.7 million to continue construction of the Northern Busway between Enoggera Creek and Kedron.

"We're getting on with the job of delivering sustainable transport solutions for future generations."

Major projects include:

·$175 million to continue the $1.195 billion Gold Coast Rapid Transit System, a light rail project from Southport to Broadbeach, as well as a three kilometre extension;

·$93.7 million to continue the $731.6 million construction of the Northern Busway between Enoggera Creek and Kedron, extending the existing busway from the Royal Brisbane Women's Hospital to Sadlier Street, Kedron;

·$66.3 million to complete the $465.8 million Stage 2A of the Eastern Busway between South East Busway and Main Avenue, including bus stations at Stones Corner and Langlands Park

·$28.5 million provided towards upgrading the Northern Busway between Kedron and Bracken Bridge;

$12 million for early stage works of the Moreton Bay Rail Link – a $1.5 billion project to be jointly funded by the State and Federal Governments and Moreton Bay Regional Council.
Ms Palaszczuk said $44 million would be directed to public transport infrastructure improvements acrossSouth East Queensland.

"The TransLink upgrade program will improve current bus stations and build additional bus station infrastructure," she said.

Current estimated project costs include:

$5.5 million towards Capalaba Park 'n' Ride;
$5.0 million towards Maroochydore Bus Station;
$4.5 million towards Enoggera Reservoir Park 'n' Ride;
$4.0 million towards Logan Central Bus Station;
$3.5 million towards North Lakes Bus Station;
$3.0 million towards UQ Lakes Bus Station. PTO...
"We're investing $1.2 billion in rail infrastructure to continue building new rail lines to ease congestion in South East Queensland," she said.

Projects include:

$459.5 million is provided to continue upgrading rail infrastructure and rollingstock on the Citytrain network, including:
$118.3 million to continue construction of the Richlands to Springfield Rail project, building a new dual track rail line from Richlands to a new station at Springfield, along with road upgrades and a new station at Springfield Lakes;
$97 million to continue building 40 new three car-carriage passenger trains to deliver service enhancements between the Gold Coast, Brisbane and the Sunshine Coast
$39 million to continue rail capacity upgrades;
$27.3 million for the construction of new stabling facilities for additional rollingstock.
Ms Palaszczuk said the State Government was committed to improving transport infrastructure for regional communities and would continue to fund much needed upgrades to regional services.

Other major capital works include:

$62 million to commence a major overhaul of suburban and interurban rollingstock
$57.6 million to upgrade and enhance the tilt train fleet, particularly the Sunlander passenger services;
$22.1 million to ensure that Citytrain stations comply with the 2007 Disability Standards;
$13.5 million to continue modifications to existing rollingstock, to ensure compliance with the 2007 Disability Standards;
$1.5 million for infrastructure upgrades and other priority works on the Mount Isa Line.

"This budget is about connecting our communities by giving them public transport options to suit their lifestyle," Ms Palaszczuk said.

Media Contact: Chris Ward (Minister Palaszczuk's office) 3237 1111

[ozbob]

Just had a quick visit to UQ Lakes. From next week the bus congestion is going to be worse?

Surely something can be done to make more room for the buses?

[#Metro]

It is not just UQ. I've noticed congestion at Buranda, Cultural Centre, Garden City and Griffith University in the mornings...

[ozbob]

Few photographs at UQ Lakes ...







Photographs R Dow 24th August 2011

[AnonymouslyBad]

It is not just UQ. I've noticed congestion at Buranda, Cultural Centre, Garden City and Griffith University in the mornings...

Cultural Centre is awful. Buranda is sometimes problematic and it's about to get worse.

The others are not too bad. They are busy, and occasionally do have buses waiting but it's nothing too serious and probably nothing worth reducing service over.

[Golliwog]

To be fair though, having no congestion isn't going to happen, and I'd actually be against money being wasted on such things. Yes there are some legitimate issues around the CC and UQ Lakes, but a little bit of queuing never hurt anyone.

[dwb]

Presumably they could store some buses under the PA station rather than at UQ... little bit further driving, but reasonably close.

Translink obviously can't do much til BCC agrees, and I guess if the situation gets bad enough Council might finally sign off.

[Otto]

On some occasions, I've not been able to holdup at UQ lakes, so I go for a drive back towards Boggo RD, but I do a U turn in the Boggo Rd tunnel at the hamburger ( U turn area in the tunnel ) and head back towards UQ lakes and holdup at the Dutton Park stop till just before my UQ departure time.

[Golliwog]

Interesting idea with PA Hospital. I can't see why it wouldn't work. Though often the buses are only laying over for 5 minutes or so, thus by the time they get to PA, it would be almost time to head back to form the next run.

[Mr X]

On some occasions, I've not been able to holdup at UQ lakes, so I go for a drive back towards Boggo RD, but I do a U turn in the Boggo Rd tunnel at the hamburger ( U turn area in the tunnel ) and head back towards UQ lakes and holdup at the Dutton Park stop till just before my UQ departure time.

I see buses holding up there all the time. I've always thought that bus stop is a bit of a waste, should be drop off only and pick up only on either side. If you can't cross a 600m bridge and aren't in a wheelchair, there really must be something wrong with you.

[O_128]

On some occasions, I've not been able to holdup at UQ lakes, so I go for a drive back towards Boggo RD, but I do a U turn in the Boggo Rd tunnel at the hamburger ( U turn area in the tunnel ) and head back towards UQ lakes and holdup at the Dutton Park stop till just before my UQ departure time.

I see buses holding up there all the time. I've always thought that bus stop is a bit of a waste, should be drop off only and pick up only on either side. If you can't cross a 600m bridge and aren't in a wheelchair, there really must be something wrong with you.

The Asian students love it, dont see the use myself

[Mr X]

I walk 2.5-3km to uni, depending where lect theatre is, AND BACK, 4-5 days a week. 600m is not much, but I guess if you're not used to walking it might be a struggle lol!

[dwb]

I walk 2.5-3km to uni, depending where lect theatre is, AND BACK, 4-5 days a week. 600m is not much, but I guess if you're not used to walking it might be a struggle lol!

If you mean the Dutton Park stop, maybe it is for people travelling to/from destinations other than UQ on a UQ route. I think it is entirely valid.

No one actually mentioned this stop though, Otto just said he drives back to the turnaround under Boggo Rd Gaol when needed (ie if no layover space left at UQ lakes).

This turn around does rather intrigue me in it's location. Presumably they want to be able to run routes to Boggo Rd to interchange with CRR at some stage in the future, otherwise it seems oddly placed (right after a sharp turn) and quite expensive (underground, no supports).

[somebody]

If you mean the Dutton Park stop, maybe it is for people travelling to/from destinations other than UQ on a UQ route. I think it is entirely valid.

No one actually mentioned this stop though, Otto just said he drives back to the turnaround under Boggo Rd Gaol when needed (ie if no layover space left at UQ lakes).

This turn around does rather intrigue me in it's location. Presumably they want to be able to run routes to Boggo Rd to interchange with CRR at some stage in the future, otherwise it seems oddly placed (right after a sharp turn) and quite expensive (underground, no supports).

I agree with all of this.  Except that Otto did say he holds up at this stop.

[dwb]

If you mean the Dutton Park stop, maybe it is for people travelling to/from destinations other than UQ on a UQ route. I think it is entirely valid.

No one actually mentioned this stop though, Otto just said he drives back to the turnaround under Boggo Rd Gaol when needed (ie if no layover space left at UQ lakes).

This turn around does rather intrigue me in it's location. Presumably they want to be able to run routes to Boggo Rd to interchange with CRR at some stage in the future, otherwise it seems oddly placed (right after a sharp turn) and quite expensive (underground, no supports).

I agree with all of this.  Except that Otto did say he holds up at this stop.

Re-read his post, and YES you are right. I'd been thinking outbound... but he holds inbound... totally missed that despite reading it a zillion times!

[O_128]

3 triaxles were all trying to leave there bay at once and the layover was full 

[Mr X]

The stop at DP facing uq is largely redundant.... its the one I refer to.

[dwb]

The stop at DP facing uq is largely redundant.... its the one I refer to.

Presumably if people catch the route inbound, they are just as plausibly likely to get it outbound. These stops would have cost next to nothing to build, and do not negatively affect services so it's a non issue for me.

[Golliwog]

There is a slight negative when they slow services when they have to stop, and heading away from UQ, the bus ends up in the left lane and is supposed to wait for a green light to go straight through (for those who aren't familiar with it, to turn right to exit up to Annerley Rd, the bus has to turn from the left lane.

The wait there also isn't helped when the person getting off wasn't clever enough to make sure they were standing or sitting near a door and have to squeeze their way past a full bus load of people.

Its only a minor thing though, and not something I'd bother closing the stop over.

[Mr X]

The stopsshould be retained, I used to walk 10 mins to DP to take a 109 before the 196 was BUZ'd.

Just need to encourage people to walk over the bridge. But they're inherently lazy. Ho hum!

[FrequencyCrusader]

This turn around does rather intrigue me in it's location. Presumably they want to be able to run routes to Boggo Rd to interchange with CRR at some stage in the future, otherwise it seems oddly placed (right after a sharp turn) and quite expensive (underground, no supports).

IIRC the turnaround is in case the tunnel to Dutton Park is closed due to a fire or something. It still allows Boggo Rd to be serviced and then buses turnaround, so you don't end up with a conga-line of stranded buses... (like between South Bank & Cultural Centre yesterday 9:30!  )
As for why it's underground, I'd guess space restraints and the primary school wanting as much of the busway underground as possible.

Is it a layover issue or are the problems caused by something else? There seems to be a temporary solution to congestion that I don't think anyone's mentioned: boarding at both doors... Surely if every bus ran on time leaving UQ there would be fewer layover issues