Quiet Car

[justanotheruser]

Isn't it already against the bylaws to listen to a musical device on a train without ear/head phones?

Yes.  The general statement suggests you shouldn't use them at all (even with headphones) in the quiet car.

I think this is because even when you use headphones, it can be annoying for other passengers if it's turned up loud enough.

Again - common sense should prevail.  If you listen to music with headphones at a level so that no one else can hear it, I'm sure it's fine.

actually I have seen TO's point out to people volume must be low even if they have headphones on so that in theory is a rule already.

I do need to be told what is and isn't appropriate because I have never had any trouble sleeping so I'm wondering what on earth are people making a fuss about?

As I said previously those wanting a quiet carriage should pay extra for the privilege. This extra money can be used to police quiet carriages. I still find it interesting that nobody has answered my question about should we ban parents with young kids (esp babies and toddlers) from riding in the quiet car. Why won't someone be brave and make the statement. Or is it acceptable for them to make heaps of noise in the quiet car? 

[#Metro]

How about quiet bus? in the back section.
I don't really care about the quiet car- i don't notice the noise and never have.
I think policing should not be too crazy, most commuters will just follow the signs when they get put up.

[Golliwog]

Whenever I've been on a train and theres been noisy kids with parents, I usually put up with it. If they are being particularly irritating and I know I'm going to be on the train for a while longer, I would probably move to somewhere else on the train. So therefore from that I think it would be reasonable to expect that if there is a parent with children catching the train that they avoid the quiet carriage. Of course if they are quiet kids it would be fine, but as Derwan says, its all about common sense and courtesy. I can see how this could be seen as iritating to the parent, but at the same time, it's the quiet car, and it's not like we're asking them to run 5km or cut of their arm, is just walking slightly further up the platform and boarding a different carriage.

[Derwan]

I'm with Golliwog.  Noisy kids - first 5 carriages.  If your baby might cry - first 5 carriages.  Is that too much to expect?  By the sounds of the popularity of the quiet car, it'll be less crowded and easier to get the pram in anyway.

[somebody]

I thought it was a fair point that parents with noisy kids need to stay out of the quiet car.  I didn't respond because I didn't have anything to add.

I actually find it weird that quiet conversations are permitted in the quiet car.

[Nina M Blackwell]

I wish QR would amend their announcement and not use the word "trialling" at all.  Why not say "promoting" or "encouraging" or "instituting."  I wonder what will happen at the end of the "trial" period in November.  Will there be an annoucement that the trial is over and everyone can go back to being selfish and inconsiderate?  By then, hopefully it will just be a given that the last car is the quiet car.  Signs in the first and last carriages will need to be maintained so that "brave" passengers can have a leg to stand on if there are particularly disruptive passengers.  I agree with Somebody that even quiet conversations should not be allowed (and there was one going on this morning that wasn't so quiet) but I think that is a bit too much to expect.  Even when there are emergency schedule changes, such as Friday night's 5.19 express becoming a local), I don't expect people to change seats because they need to use their mobile to change their pickup times.  I'm not unreasonable!  It so far has been wonderful and is getting better every day, thanks to the announcements.  Pretty soon they won't be needed as much.  Too bad the driver can't hear what's going on in the quiet car and use the PA accordingly.  Hehehe  

[STB]

Travelled in the 'Quiet Car' this morning on the 10am all stopper to Southbank.  At Wynnum Central, some 'undesirables' got on slurping their drinks loudly, every second word swearing and making some music out of their ipods (without headphones).  They mocked the announcement of the 'Quiet Car' and continued going on right until one got off at Murrarie then the rest at Southbank.

[Nina M Blackwell]

You poor thing!  Incorrigible as well as "undesirable."  I'm afraid the early commuters have a slight advantage although we have to contend with the students.  The students appear to be less defiant, thank goodness.

[ozbob]

There is mention in this article of the quiet car trial to be extended for first and last cars ...

From the Brisbane mX 6th September 2010 page 1

Penalties off rails

[justanotheruser]

I thought it was a fair point that parents with noisy kids need to stay out of the quiet car.  I didn't respond because I didn't have anything to add.

I actually find it weird that quiet conversations are permitted in the quiet car.

yes define quiet. Even with using common sense quiet to one person can still be noisy to another. People who work on construction sites often talk louder out of habit simply because they often need to compete with noise to be heard or have industrial deafness.


Allowing conversation admittedly is strange but most of the time when I look at fellow commuters they look miserable. The non quiet ones are the ones who seem to be happy to be alive.

[Nina M Blackwell]

This morning's commute was particularly noisy due to a lot of students on the quiet carriage.  Can someone tell me a few of the schools which are supported by the Cleveland line, particularly with stops around Cannon Hill, Morningside or thereabouts?  A simple call to the school suggesting they request students to avoid the last car could do wonders.

[O_128]

This morning's commute was particularly noisy due to a lot of students on the quiet carriage.  Can someone tell me a few of the schools which are supported by the Cleveland line, particularly with stops around Cannon Hill, Morningside or thereabouts?  A simple call to the school suggesting they request students to avoid the last car could do wonders.

Cannon hill Anglican college
San Sisto college
Lourdes Hill college
Seaton College
Churchie
Coorparoo state college

[Nina M Blackwell]

  Thanks for that.  Another thing on my "to do" list!

[justanotheruser]

I wish QR would amend their announcement and not use the word "trialling" at all.  Why not say "promoting" or "encouraging" or "instituting."

but it is a trial so why not use that word???
They can't say instituting because that suggests it is an actual policy decision that will not be changed where the trial has no guarantee it will continue. (although everything suggests it will become policy)
If they say encouraging that is saying you don't have to pay attention to it. While they have said they won't do anything to enforce it at least the wording doesn't tell people that.
Saying promoting well once again that can imply it is now a permanent policy which is not the case.
It is a trial and so at the end of the day is there really anything wrong with calling a spade a spade?


Have things really got that out of hand on the cleveland line in the last two years? it wasn't noticeable when I lived out that way.

[Nina M Blackwell]

Out of hand doesn't begin to describe it. This morning four belligerant youths (not students) were in the quiet carriage with their trick bikes and every time the announcement was made they laughed and got louder.  By the time, we reached Central, they were bouncing their bikes like basketballs.  I had to say something.  So I suggested they were acting obnoxious on purpose and that they not use the last car in the future.  They backchatted me and another gentleman (thank you!) came to my defence and told them the same thing.  Even when it becomes "policy" it is going to depend on the human condition of civilisation and courtesy to make it successful.  I am not sure that exists here.  Of course, there's always the chance Queensland will find a way to come up with another revenue-raising exercise and threaten to fine those who do not comply.

[mufreight]

There is hope, a gentleman riding in the trailing car of the Ipswich bound train that I rode on yesterday obviously had had enough of a collection of four yobbos so he got up and hads words with them suggesting that they might modify their behaviour, they crowded around him so he produced what was I assume a warrant card or badge and then quietly suggested that they might like to detrain at the next station, Goodna which they did.
Do not know who or what the gentleman was but perhaps the railway police squad should be increased further with a number of the increase being in plain clothes working the off peak services, from this experience I would be an effective deterrent.

[justanotheruser]

There is hope, a gentleman riding in the trailing car of the Ipswich bound train that I rode on yesterday obviously had had enough of a collection of four yobbos so he got up and hads words with them suggesting that they might modify their behaviour, they crowded around him so he produced what was I assume a warrant card or badge and then quietly suggested that they might like to detrain at the next station, Goodna which they did.
Do not know who or what the gentleman was but perhaps the railway police squad should be increased further with a number of the increase being in plain clothes working the off peak services, from this experience I would be an effective deterrent.

people know that others generally won't get involved so they can with their mates gang up. In this case the person was a police officer or similar.

If several people went up at the same time or if you noticed that and got up to support the person then people would realise that they can't just bully their way through.

[Nina M Blackwell]

In my capacity as a member of the Cleveland CRG and as a private citizen, I took the liberty of writing (via email) to 7 schools to inform them of this "trial" and ask that they make their students aware of it etc.  I invited them to confirm with QR before taking any action.  I received very supportive emails from the schools.  One Principal even asked to be informed if any of their students were being disruptive.  At this stage, it's about equal non-cooperation between students and adults!  Who can I write to about the adults?   Have a restful and quiet weekend.

[justanotheruser]

In my capacity as a member of the Cleveland CRG and as a private citizen, I took the liberty of writing (via email) to 7 schools to inform them of this "trial" and ask that they make their students aware of it etc.  I invited them to confirm with QR before taking any action.  I received very supportive emails from the schools.  One Principal even asked to be informed if any of their students were being disruptive.  At this stage, it's about equal non-cooperation between students and adults!  Who can I write to about the adults?   Have a restful and quiet weekend.

and once again because some people have to wear uniforms they can easily be identified. i can guarantee some of those making noise in the quiet cars are actually QR workers who do not wear uniforms. It is the same as in sydney they put their feet on the seat and break other rules and the staff won't do anything because they know them.

[dannyr]

actually I have seen TO's point out to people volume must be low even if they have headphones on so that in theory is a rule already.

On that note, has anyone ever seen anyone, during the trial or otherwise, be fined by TO's for noise offences, other than general ruckus type noise (eg screaming).  I'd be interested to see if there is actually some enhanced enforcement happening during the trial and actually fining people...

[Nina M Blackwell]

No, not for noise offences.  However, I've witnessed first hand the Gestapo-like entrance by four officials to check tickets/GoCard balances.  That morning, two officials were interrogating a girl (who I think was probably in the wrong) to the point of making her cry.  My stomach was in knots after the 15-minute episode.  Where were the officials when those four hoons were on the 7.13 am (Ormiston) train with their bikes last week?  I've heard announcements that bikes and strollers are not allowed during peak times.  I wish I had had the guts to tell them to get off the train entirely!

Somehow, I don't think the quiet carriage will warrant "policing".  I believe a bit of peer pressure is all it takes.  People will soon become weary of being shushed or being stared down if everyone sticks to it.

This morning one gentleman answered his loud-ringing cellphone but had the decency to say he'd call back.  When it rang a second time, he just muted or deferred it.  It's as simple as this:  if you cannot do without your phone for one hour (by putting it on silent), then sit in your choice of the five other carriages.  All phones need to be muted, including the touch tone of the keypad while texting.  If we are going to do it, let's do it right.

[Derwan]

Unless someone breaks one of the actual bylaws (or whatever they're called), they can't be fined.  I think the whole concept of the quiet car is based on respect and peer pressure.

This morning I was on board SMU273, standing between the second last and last carriages.  In one direction I heard people talking, including students heading to school.  In the other direction was complete silence.  It was good to see the quiet car in "action".  Unfortunately this afternoon there were a few loud talkers in the quiet car.  The message clearly hasn't got through to everyone.

There was a sign on the A-frame at Boondall Station this morning.  Unfortunately it was only A3 size and you needed to go right up to it to read what it was about.  Some larger signs would be good.

[#Metro]

Caught the train this afternoon - saw the signs on the platform and heard the announcements.
Some people had a giggle about the irony of the announcement being pretty noisy itself.

I think it will work actually, was very skeptical about it at first.

The other thing I noticed was the trains, and MX newpapers being everywhere. More trains needed!!!

[justanotheruser]

Isn't it already against the bylaws to listen to a musical device on a train without ear/head phones?

Yes.  The general statement suggests you shouldn't use them at all (even with headphones) in the quiet car.

I think this is because even when you use headphones, it can be annoying for other passengers if it's turned up loud enough.

Again - common sense should prevail.  If you listen to music with headphones at a level so that no one else can hear it, I'm sure it's fine.

just a further update. Now that posters are more common and I have listened closely to the announcements made both say to refrain from using noisy musical devices. So it is true that in regards to musical devices there is zero difference between the rules in the quiet car and the rest of the train.


It is good to see that there are now posters at stations on A-frames and in poster displays as well as on trains. I still don't see what the fuss is about and hope that I don't have to move from the first carriage. Although I do consider the conversations I have sometimes to be quiet and when I listen to music it always gets drowned out by announcements so it can't be too loud.

[somebody]

just a further update. Now that posters are more common and I have listened closely to the announcements made both say to refrain from using noisy musical devices. So it is true that in regards to musical devices there is zero difference between the rules in the quiet car and the rest of the train.

Probably there is a difference in the degree - of what constitutes a "noisy" device in the quiet carriage or the other carriages.

[O_128]

No, not for noise offences.  However, I've witnessed first hand the Gestapo-like entrance by four officials to check tickets/GoCard balances.  That morning, two officials were interrogating a girl (who I think was probably in the wrong) to the point of making her cry.  My stomach was in knots after the 15-minute episode.  Where were the officials when those four hoons were on the 7.13 am (Ormiston) train with their bikes last week?  I've heard announcements that bikes and strollers are not allowed during peak times.  I wish I had had the guts to tell them to get off the train entirely!

Somehow, I don't think the quiet carriage will warrant "policing".  I believe a bit of peer pressure is all it takes.  People will soon become weary of being shushed or being stared down if everyone sticks to it.

This morning one gentleman answered his loud-ringing cellphone but had the decency to say he'd call back.  When it rang a second time, he just muted or deferred it.  It's as simple as this:  if you cannot do without your phone for one hour (by putting it on silent), then sit in your choice of the five other carriages.  All phones need to be muted, including the touch tone of the keypad while texting.  If we are going to do it, let's do it right.

That lovely group was on the 1:47 cleveland this afternoon, shouting and yelling , played loud music etc, and old lady told them to shut up only to be yelled at by them.

[Nina M Blackwell]

I presume it was the boys who were on the 7.13 (Ormiston) this morning.  Can someone who took the all stations train this morning remember where they got on?  It was either Wellington Point or Birkdale - very early in the piece.  Bikes are not allowed during peak travel times but they must be stopped from getting on at the station.  So a heads up needs to be given to the station master in question.  Also, I asked them politely not to take the same train again (because they were saying the 6.30ish train was better) or at least to not park themselves in the last carriage (blocking entrance to a highly sought after seat).  I received the expected not-so-polite response.  What can you expect from hoons?

On another note, which school(s) is supported by the Wynnum North station?  A student this morning looked completely flabbergasted when she heard the announcement about the quiet carriage. 

[PHANTOM]

Feedback sent to QR this morning:

QR is offering their long-suffering customers the inconvenience of going to a "quiet" carriage to get away from noise. Besides the inconvenience of not being able to travel in the carriage of your choice, this is a disruption to travel plans. We go to a particular carriage for the convenience of getting on or off to suit our personal/work needs. Who wants to go to the rear carriage then have to walk back to what used to be your usual entry/departure point.

According to the Courier Mail report a few weeks ago, Transport Minister Rachel Nolan says there will be no penalties for breaking the silence in this new 'quiet zone'. Undue noise such as loud music played without earphones is already subject to fines for infringement. Why aren't you enforcing these rules? They are rarely, if ever, enforced. I've only seen it happen once or twice in 20 years of Citytrain travel. I don't know how long the regulations have been in though.

I, as a fare-paying passenger, am being treated as a second-class commuter but have to pay full fare. Every day I travel I have to put up with other people's music/noise. If I hear it and I consider it's too loud, I ask for it to be turned down. When I do this, I mostly get abused, ignored or it's not turned down very much. I've been physically threatened for doing this. People don't have enough respect for others or any respect for their own hearing. They continue to do it because they know there's little or no recourse from rail staff.

There should be regular checks by rail "police" just as there is for ticketing. I have never seen them do anything about noise before even though they regularly encounter it. They just pass by and say nothing to the offender. It's about time they did, so the minority don't put out the majority of travellers.

It's also time manufacturers of these infernal ipods etc be forced to put a limit on the volume they produce. Manufacturers of headphones/earpieces etc need to make them so they don't allow sound out to annoy others. Maybe QR should take this up with that industry as a service to their passengers due to their lack of vigilance and enforcing of their policies.

I find QR's attitude towards peace loving commuters totally inadequate.

[ozbob]

Welcome Phantom, thanks for sharing your comments.

[cartoonbirdhaus]

Every day I travel I have to put up with other people's music/noise. If I hear it and I consider it's too loud, I ask for it to be turned down. When I do this, I mostly get abused, ignored or it's not turned down very much. I've been physically threatened for doing this. People don't have enough respect for others or any respect for their own hearing. They continue to do it because they know there's little or no recourse from rail staff.

Exactly. We need New York-style "zero tolerance" policing, and nothing less. The authorities should make themselves feared, since that is the only motivator for all the deadbeats to do the right thing.

It's also time manufacturers of these infernal iPods etc be forced to put a limit on the volume they produce. Manufacturers of headphones/earpieces etc need to make them so they don't allow sound out to annoy others

The problem with limiting the volume output is that different models of headphones and earphones need different output levels to emit the same volume (plus people sometimes hook up their iPod to the AUX inputs on a home stereo). As for headphone design, there are models which avoid excessive leakage, but they're typically dearer (especially the noise-cancelling type).

[justanotheruser]

Every day I travel I have to put up with other people's music/noise. If I hear it and I consider it's too loud, I ask for it to be turned down. When I do this, I mostly get abused, ignored or it's not turned down very much. I've been physically threatened for doing this. People don't have enough respect for others or any respect for their own hearing. They continue to do it because they know there's little or no recourse from rail staff.

Exactly. We need New York-style "zero tolerance" policing, and nothing less. The authorities should make themselves feared, since that is the only motivator for all the deadbeats to do the right thing.

So what should we return to the days when it was considered perfectly acceptable for the police to beat you to within an inch of your life? The authorities are there for our (everyones) benefit. They should not be there to be feared. Apart from that I have been on the train and some people saw TO's getting on and so they jumped off the train because they didn't have a ticket. Likewise you can see them walking through the train and make sure you aren't doing anything wrong when they arrive therefore meaning they would not be able to fine you anyway. The only way it will work is as a previous poster said through peer pressure. This involves more than one person standing up but rather many.


Years ago in Sydney a person lit a cigarette on the train. A person told them to put it out to which they were told where to go. The passenger then said loudly to the entire carriage "Who thinks this person should be allowed to continue smoking?". Nobody responded. The person then put out their smoke. I am sure my friend would have received an identical response if he had instead asked "Who thinks they should put out the cigarette?" Sometimes phrasing things the right way helps make people think a group is against them rather than an individual.


Having said all this I am still against the nanny state which is exactly what this law is about. I could list similar ideas for other situations for which I am sure people would think is absurd yet we find support for this idea.

It's also time manufacturers of these infernal iPods etc be forced to put a limit on the volume they produce. Manufacturers of headphones/earpieces etc need to make them so they don't allow sound out to annoy others

The problem with limiting the volume output is that different models of headphones and earphones need different output levels to emit the same volume (plus people sometimes hook up their iPod to the AUX inputs on a home stereo). As for headphone design, there are models which avoid excessive leakage, but they're typically dearer (especially the noise-cancelling type).

also not all songs are recorded with the same settings. On my mp3 player I have easy listening songs that are at a louder volume than heavy metal songs all because of the settings when recorded in the studio.

Apart from that to think that a corporation like QR can dictate to corporations like Apple, Sony and others is just plain laughable. It ain't gonna happen.

[justanotheruser]

I presume it was the boys who were on the 7.13 (Ormiston) this morning.  Can someone who took the all stations train this morning remember where they got on?  It was either Wellington Point or Birkdale - very early in the piece.  Bikes are not allowed during peak travel times but they must be stopped from getting on at the station.  So a heads up needs to be given to the station master in question.  Also, I asked them politely not to take the same train again (because they were saying the 6.30ish train was better) or at least to not park themselves in the last carriage (blocking entrance to a highly sought after seat).  I received the expected not-so-polite response.  What can you expect from hoons?

On another note, which school(s) is supported by the Wynnum North station?  A student this morning looked completely flabbergasted when she heard the announcement about the quiet carriage. 

I think it is Wynnum State High. If you look in the street directory you should be able to find it no problem. I think there is an entrance on wynnum rd itself and also from stradbroke ave wynnum. Near there you will find it anyway.

[Otto]

On another note, which school(s) is supported by the Wynnum North station?  A student this morning looked completely flabbergasted when she heard the announcement about the quiet carriage. 

I think it is Wynnum State High. If you look in the street directory you should be able to find it no problem. I think there is an entrance on wynnum rd itself and also from stradbroke ave wynnum. Near there you will find it anyway.

FYI.... Wynnum North High which was located on Stradbroke Ave and Wynnum road was closed down last year and replaced by the new Wynnum West High school situated 1km south of Wynnum Plaza. The former Wyn NTH high will reopen next year as a new primary school which will replace 3 existing primary schools in the Wynnum area.

[Nina M Blackwell]

Thanks for the info re Wynnum West High School.  I thought I'd just send an email to that school as I sent to about 7 schools a couple of weeks ago letting them know of the quiet carriage "trial."  Hallelujah - it's school holidays!

[Derwan]

Plenty of A1-size signs now appearing at stations.   

[cartoonbirdhaus]

So what should we return to the days when it was considered perfectly acceptable for the police to beat you to within an inch of your life?

They didn't do that to law-abiding citizens. Now, we have degenerates beating people within an inch of their lives instead.

[justanotheruser]

On another note, which school(s) is supported by the Wynnum North station?  A student this morning looked completely flabbergasted when she heard the announcement about the quiet carriage. 

I think it is Wynnum State High. If you look in the street directory you should be able to find it no problem. I think there is an entrance on wynnum rd itself and also from stradbroke ave wynnum. Near there you will find it anyway.

FYI.... Wynnum North High which was located on Stradbroke Ave and Wynnum road was closed down last year and replaced by the new Wynnum West High school situated 1km south of Wynnum Plaza. The former Wyn NTH high will reopen next year as a new primary school which will replace 3 existing primary schools in the Wynnum area.

the things they do when you move away from the area hey!

[justanotheruser]

So what should we return to the days when it was considered perfectly acceptable for the police to beat you to within an inch of your life?

They didn't do that to law-abiding citizens. Now, we have degenerates beating people within an inch of their lives instead.

no but they also did it when there was no justification. The old saying two wrongs don't make a right.

What I was getting at in the first place is the authorities are there to serve us. We should not be made to be afraid of them.

[p858snake]

There was someone handing out the pamphlets the other week at Toombul station, and by handing out I mean holding a bunch and directing people to what platform for the city service.

[cartoonbirdhaus]

What I was getting at in the first place is the authorities are there to serve us. We should not be made to be afraid of them.

And paradoxically, they're much better able to serve us if they're not hindered from dealing with troublemakers the way they need to be dealt with.

[Edited to put in a closing square bracket, to fix up a coding error!]