Quiet Car

[ozbob]

From the Brisbanetimes click here!

'Quiet at the back!': Rail commuters urged

'Quiet at the back!': Rail commuters urged
Daniel Hurst
November 23, 2010 - 4:12PM

Commuters had better get ready to turn down their iPods and ditch the mobile phone chatter from tomorrow when "quiet carriages" become a permanent fixture on the rail network.

Queensland Rail today hailed its trial of hush-hush carriages a success and revealed plans to ramp up the initiative, which it said had widespread public support.

Under a three-month trail that started in August, passengers in the last carriage of all trains were urged not to talk loudly or use mobile phones and other noisy devices.

Commuters were told about the quiet rules via posters and, funnily enough, audio announcements.

The measures were applied on a courtesy basis – there was no fine for being too loud.

Transport Minister Rachel Nolan said quiet carriages would be expanded to include both the back and front carriages of every service from tomorrow.

"Hundreds of customers have been loud and clear – they want the quiet carriages permanently, and I am pleased to announce they are here to stay," she said in a statement.

"There has been overwhelming positive feedback to state government, including calls to increase the quiet zones, which is why we have doubled the number of quiet carriages."

Queensland Rail chief executive Paul Scurrah said customers travelling in the quiet carriages were asked to refrain from having loud conversations, talking on their phone or listening to loud musical devices.

"The front and back carriage of every train will now be a designated quiet zone where customers can read a book, do a crossword, or simply sit back and relax," he said.

Mr Scurrah said he expected it would take time for passengers to learn the new system of having two quiet carriage zones, but signage and posters would be displayed on board.

On-board announcements would be made "occasionally", he said.

"While there will not be any penalty for breaching the quiet carriage rules, we would hope all our customers will respect their fellow commuters who want to take advantage of it," he said.

Public transport advocate and Rail: Back on Track spokesman Robert Dow welcomed the move.

"This is an important initiative in the broad sense as it is also a signal that there are considerate behavioural expectations when travelling on public transport for the benefit of the overall community," he said.

[justanotheruser]

"This is an important initiative in the broad sense as it is also a signal that there are considerate behavioural expectations when travelling on public transport for the benefit of the overall community," he said.

[/quote]
yep must behave properly but as far as safety of young people the view seems to be stuff em. have we really got our priorities that screwed up?

[justanotheruser]

They still haven't explained the situation for a 3 car service.  Only the middle car isn't quiet?

I also forsee a headache for marshalling, as the former end cars cannot become the middle cars.

this is where making it the 2nd and 5th carriage would have been handy. That way on a 3 car train it would be the second car.  Although I must admit it will be alot easier to locate first and last carriage stopping points on a platform which does make that the better choice.

I'll have to consider where I sit now. occasionly I listen to music softly which is not against the rules of the quiet car but to avoid problems it is probably best I move elsewhere although I reckon that should mean I can listen to music as loudly as I want. After all there is no difference in rules between quiet cars and non-quiet cars when it comes to music devices.

[Mobility]

They should have a "noise carriage" instead - put all the noisy people in one carriage, not all the quiet people, who are the majority of passengers.

The "quiet carriages" are a joke to anyone who actually travels in them. The "quiet carriage" and rules of traveling in it are announced over the PA every other stop, taking about 30 seconds to complete, and louder than any conversation, phone call or music player. The routine stop announcements are also loud and often lengthy. The PA on trains is the loudest intrusion of all.

Loud music should not be played on any carriage. The croutons who talk loudly on their mobiles should keep it down too - their phone are ony ten centimeters from their mouths, not at the other end of the carriage.

This highlights one of the inherent problems of PT. It is a shared service, which means people of all different inclinations (in this case, quiet or noisy) are thrown together in one big sardine can and expected to get along and travel in comfort. And then of course you always have your inconsiderate people and your nuisance types. Which is most people in today's "I, me, mine" generation, who think about nothing but body image.

[#Metro]

Using the above logic, perhaps I could argue that my seat on the bus was my individual seat, private and separate from the others. And I could further argue that the bus or train wasn't crowded because there were too many people, but simply because it was... too small! Perhaps it is?

If people don't want to drive on a government road- don't. I've heard the Clem 7 has plenty of space for those who choose to drive into it.

[#Metro]

People tolerate it because, although they are free to travel by car instead, the road system is a shambles, making that option just as difficult in many ways. It's not "too many cars on the road" that makes them congested. At one location on the north side of Brisbane a roundabout at a five-way intersection was replaced by traffic lights. Right after that, traffic was backing up every day for streets behind it, which never happened before. Obviously the number of cars on the road was nothing to do with that. It is design and management of the road system which is at fault. A simple thing like coordination of traffic signals has been shown to greatly reduce road congestion.

The people at Springfield lakes (new freeway there, freshly upgraded too) and Kippa-Ring are not screaming for more motorways. They are screaming for trains, trains, trains.

[#Metro]

Anyway, this thread was for quiet car... back on track.

[justanotheruser]

They should have a "noise carriage" instead - put all the noisy people in one carriage, not all the quiet people, who are the majority of passengers.

The "quiet carriages" are a joke to anyone who actually travels in them. The "quiet carriage" and rules of traveling in it are announced over the PA every other stop, taking about 30 seconds to complete, and louder than any conversation, phone call or music player. The routine stop announcements are also loud and often lengthy. The PA on trains is the loudest intrusion of all.

Loud music should not be played on any carriage. The croutons who talk loudly on their mobiles should keep it down too - their phone are ony ten centimeters from their mouths, not at the other end of the carriage.

This highlights one of the inherent problems of PT. It is a shared service, which means people of all different inclinations (in this case, quiet or noisy) are thrown together in one big sardine can and expected to get along and travel in comfort. And then of course you always have your inconsiderate people and your nuisance types. Which is most people in today's "I, me, mine" generation, who think about nothing but body image.

I disagree with this statement. The majority fall inbetween quiet and noisy

You say loud music should not be played on any carriage. I'm not sure if that is a response to my comment saying loud music should be acceptable outside quiet carriages or not. If it is my comment was also accompanied by the point that the rules for musical devices in quiet carriages is identical to rules for musical devices in the rest of the train and should be read in that context.

You seem to support quiet carriages but in reality the concept of them is part of the "I, me mine" view which is obviously not connected to a generation like you suggest because of the age of many people who support quiet carriages.

That's not the same thing. Cars share roads, but they are still independent and private vehicles. Of course members of a society share public spaces, including roads. The only way to avoid that is to go and live in the bush. There is a big difference between sharing the same road, neighborhood or shopping mall and being wedged tightly in a seat too small for many people's asses let alone elbow space, no leg room, knee to knee with and directly facing the person opposite you, with people you would walk around rather than go near in a shopping mall because they are too noisy, inconsiderate or smelly or you just don't want people right up in your personal space.

A bit more realism in the posts would be good. The number of people in a carriage sitting knee to knee facing each other is at maximum 32 people. Compare that to the number on a carriage in peak hour and it is next to nothing. On some trains you will not have anyone facing each other knee to knee. Other trains the figure is around 16 people. 

Travelling in cars may mean that you don't have to hear noises people make but how is the selfishness of people cuting you off or blocking a lane of traffic because they want to change lanes at the last minute (read make left turn from right lane) or driving recklessly all acceptable but some noise from people is unacceptable. Actually perhaps you are right about them being different. One lot puts peoples health and safety of people at risk while the other is satisfying cultural niceties.  As I said earlier we really do have our priorities screwed up.

[Nina M Blackwell]

Last evening, I had my final altercation on the so-called quiet carriage.  The guy said I was having "a go" at him by asking why he was sitting in the quiet carriage.  He said he wasn't expecting a call, but you cannot control when people call you so you MUST put your phone on silent.  If you are not willing to do this for one hour in the morning and one hour in the evening, it is simple: don't sit in the quiet carriage.

This morning I took a middle carriage and found it much more relaxing.  There was noise but it was a general din as opposed to listening to a lone voice droning on the entire trip or being startled awake with one loud cellphone ringing in an otherwise quiet car, as was the case in the quiet carriage last night. 

I believe this is a hopeless cause and having 2 out of 3 cars be "quiet carriages" is beyond a joke.  I am ready to give up and believe the other cars will be quieter than the quiet carriage.

[BrizCommuter]

Last evening, I had my final altercation on the so-called quiet carriage.  The guy said I was having "a go" at him by asking why he was sitting in the quiet carriage.  He said he wasn't expecting a call, but you cannot control when people call you so you MUST put your phone on silent.  If you are not willing to do this for one hour in the morning and one hour in the evening, it is simple: don't sit in the quiet carriage.

This morning I took a middle carriage and found it much more relaxing.  There was noise but it was a general din as opposed to listening to a lone voice droning on the entire trip or being startled awake with one loud cellphone ringing in an otherwise quiet car, as was the case in the quiet carriage last night. 

I believe this is a hopeless cause and having 2 out of 3 cars be "quiet carriages" is beyond a joke.  I am ready to give up and believe the other cars will be quieter than the quiet carriage.

May I suggest taking a chill pill?

[Mobility]

Last evening, I had my final altercation on the so-called quiet carriage.  The guy said I was having "a go" at him by asking why he was sitting in the quiet carriage.  He said he wasn't expecting a call, but you cannot control when people call you so you MUST put your phone on silent.  If you are not willing to do this for one hour in the morning and one hour in the evening, it is simple: don't sit in the quiet carriage.

This morning I took a middle carriage and found it much more relaxing.  There was noise but it was a general din as opposed to listening to a lone voice droning on the entire trip or being startled awake with one loud cellphone ringing in an otherwise quiet car, as was the case in the quiet carriage last night. 

I believe this is a hopeless cause and having 2 out of 3 cars be "quiet carriages" is beyond a joke.  I am ready to give up and believe the other cars will be quieter than the quiet carriage.

I agree the quiet carriage is a joke. Like I said, the stop announcements are the loudest intrusion on trains so there is really no such thing as a quiet carriage. And nobody should be playing loud music or talking too loudly on any carriage, out of simple decency.

Also, notice how as soon as a rule is officially made, that people who previously were not bothered by, say, a person talking loudly to another at the other end of the carriage are suddenly annoyed by it?

[ozbob]

Back on track.  The Quiet Carriages are now to be permanent. Why?  Overwhelming positive feedback.  In time this quiet carriage will become a part of routine travel on the City train network, as has non-smoking.

Other jurisdictions that have quiet carriages are working well.  There is national interest in QR's quiet carriage initiative and I would not be surprised to see it progressively introduced elsewhere.

Well done QR!

[ozbob]

This is a thread on the quiet car folks.  You are more than welcome to waste bandwidth in your own threads.

Please keep on topic. 

[Mobility]

This is a thread on the quiet car folks.  You are more than welcome to waste bandwidth in your own threads.

Please keep on topic. 

Sorry. I'll try..

[Nina M Blackwell]

[[/quote]
May I suggest taking a chill pill?
[/quote]
Good idea - where do I get one?

I would love to "chill" during my commute, but it's difficult when you're dozing and a loud, obnoxious ringing goes off.  What is so important that people have to be "on call" 24/7.  It's sick.  If they are emergency workers of some kind, they shouldn't ride in the last car.

Having two quiet carriages is plain stupid.  We can't even get it under control in one, let alone two.

The announcement is still too long and intrusive.  Maybe more signs, so people can just point when appropriate (when they're in the "last car".)

[somebody]

Having two quiet carriages is plain stupid.  We can't even get it under control in one, let alone two.

The announcement is still too long and intrusive.  Maybe more signs, so people can just point when appropriate (when they're in the "last car".)

Actually, the two quiet carriages is needed to be able to have fixed signs in the first and last carriage and therefore less announcements.

[Fares_Fair]

... the announcements should be whispered IMHO.

Regards,
Fares Fair.

[justanotheruser]

Also, notice how as soon as a rule is officially made, that people who previously were not bothered by, say, a person talking loudly to another at the other end of the carriage are suddenly annoyed by it?

actually i gently confronted a passenger about this today. They told some people politely to keep the noise down. Shortly after when they got noisy again they told the people to go to another carriage if they wanted to be noisy. I asked if the noise bothered them and they replied yes.  I then asked them why then did they not sit in the quiet car (last carriage) during the trial period instead of in the first carriage. Yep doesn't really bother them at all.

What is so important that people have to be "on call" 24/7.  It's sick.  If they are emergency workers of some kind, they shouldn't ride in the last car.

Well I don't need to be on call 24/7 however I do need to be on call between 6am and 7pm four days a week.  It is during those times that I travel. So before you start calling people sick try understanding that there may be reasons for people to have their phones on.

Your suggestion of now limiting who can ride in the quiet carriages has parents excluded as well as people with disabilities and now emergency workers and other occupations by implication. Soon you will be excluding everyone from the quiet carriage except yourself!


I remember when no smoking on trains and railway property came in. There were announcements all the time. However as Bob pointed out people are used to this and you basically never hear an announcement unless someone is actually smoking. It will be the same with the quiet carriage. Once people get used to it then there will be no need for announcements. So a bit of short term pain untill signs are put on carriages and people get used to it should be tolerated for the long term benefit of accomodating people who want as little noise as possible.

[Nina M Blackwell]

For those of you who are "on call" - what is the actual chance you will be needed during the one-hour ride?  Just to indulge me, is it not feasible to put your phone on vibrate, or if your phone does not have vibrate, silent, keep it somewhere where you can feel it, or check it from time to time and in the event of an emergency, move to another car and phone in?  If it is such an impending possibility that you will receive an emergency call, why subject quiet carriage passengers to it at all?

The lame excuse that "I didn't know I was going to get a call" either demonstrates people's selfishness or plain ineptness in using a mobile phone's features of silent and vibrate.  Again, I reiterate, if you do not wish to be "out of touch" for an hour in the morning and an hour in the evening, please use another carriage.

The very notion of a quiet carriage is most certainly to EXCLUDE those who cannot respect it.  That includes children and people who want to use the commute time to socialise which is absolutely fine.

[justanotheruser]

For those of you who are "on call" - what is the actual chance you will be needed during the one-hour ride?  Just to indulge me, is it not feasible to put your phone on vibrate, or if your phone does not have vibrate, silent, keep it somewhere where you can feel it, or check it from time to time and in the event of an emergency, move to another car and phone in?  If it is such an impending possibility that you will receive an emergency call, why subject quiet carriage passengers to it at all?

The lame excuse that "I didn't know I was going to get a call" either demonstrates people's selfishness or plain ineptness in using a mobile phone's features of silent and vibrate.  Again, I reiterate, if you do not wish to be "out of touch" for an hour in the morning and an hour in the evening, please use another carriage.

The very notion of a quiet carriage is most certainly to EXCLUDE those who cannot respect it.  That includes children and people who want to use the commute time to socialise which is absolutely fine.

Well I can't speak for others as I have moved from the first carriage to another carriage now. Of course I frquently do not notice if my phone vibrates and I have it in my pocket! So vibrate isn't always worthwhile.

Once again you say people are selfish in certain circumstances yet the same could be said about those using the quiet car. It could be said they are too selfish to tolerate anyone not like them. See we could go round and round in a circular argument on this one.

[BrizCommuter]

What is so important that people have to be "on call" 24/7.  It's sick.  If they are emergency workers of some kind, they shouldn't ride in the last car.

What if the only spare seats are in the front and rear carriages - a common ocurrance in the peaks. Are these emergency workers now not entitled to a seat?

[somebody]

What if the only spare seats are in the front and rear carriages - a common ocurrance in the peaks. Are these emergency workers now not entitled to a seat?

I would say that is indeed an unfortunate side effect of the quiet carriage in those circumstances.  Are you saying you would prefer the quiet carriage be abolished?

[Derwan]

Why are people still getting hung up over the quiet car?  It's quite simple...

If you like the peace and quiet - or you are at least willing to switch your phone to vibrate and restrain from making noise - by all means ride in the quiet car.

If you want to talk to your friends, make phone calls, have children, leave your phone's ringer switched on, pump up the volume through your headphones or do anything else that might make noise, you've got 4 other carriages to choose from.

Anyone who doesn't respect these simple guidelines is being selfish.  There is no circular argument here.

There are hardly ever spare seats during peak anyway - so just stand up if you're not willing to respect the quite car.  Remember, they added the 2nd car because the quiet car is so popular.

[justanotheruser]

Why are people still getting hung up over the quiet car?  It's quite simple...

If you like the peace and quiet - or you are at least willing to switch your phone to vibrate and restrain from making noise - by all means ride in the quiet car.

If you want to talk to your friends, make phone calls, have children, leave your phone's ringer switched on, pump up the volume through your headphones or do anything else that might make noise, you've got 4 other carriages to choose from.

Anyone who doesn't respect these simple guidelines is being selfish.  There is no circular argument here.

There are hardly ever spare seats during peak anyway - so just stand up if you're not willing to respect the quite car.  Remember, they added the 2nd car because the quiet car is so popular.

actually you are wrong you can't go to another carriage and pump up the volume through the headphones. Remember whatever volume you can have your music in the quiet car is the same volume you can have it on the rest of the train. If you want peace and quiet one can easily enough block out any noise. The only people who would normally have a problem with that is young kids.

[justanotheruser]

What is so important that people have to be "on call" 24/7.  It's sick.  If they are emergency workers of some kind, they shouldn't ride in the last car.

What if the only spare seats are in the front and rear carriages - a common ocurrance in the peaks. Are these emergency workers now not entitled to a seat?

apparently not despite the fact that many of them are run off their feet all day and don't get a chance to have a proper meal break but stuff them hey. Lets make sure they are too tired to help when we need them!

[BrizCommuter]

Are you saying you would prefer the quiet carriage be abolished?

http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com/2010/12/qr-quiet-carriage-now-permanent.html

[Derwan]

actually you are wrong

I think you can get the gist of what I was saying.  To pick up on that one point without commenting on the purpose of my post shows that you're just being argumentative.

[justanotheruser]

actually you are wrong

I think you can get the gist of what I was saying.  To pick up on that one point without commenting on the purpose of my post shows that you're just being argumentative.

Nope not being argumentative just came across my pet hate of people suggesting all through this thread that rules for musical devices are different in quiet carriages to the rest of the train.

[justanotheruser]

Are you saying you would prefer the quiet carriage be abolished?

http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com/2010/12/qr-quiet-carriage-now-permanent.html

I think your comments about safety are an excelent point. I know my wife has travelled in the rear carriage for this very reason and I have called. She quickly tells me she is fine and is in the quiet car so if I need to say something I can and not worry about her acknowledging it.

[Derwan]

I caught a 3-car South Bank train yesterday (Sunday).  It was about 1 on the DS.  I was on the last carriage (supposedly one of the 2 quiet cars).  Being a weekend (and school holidays), there were plenty of teenagers on the train, talking to their mates.

I didn't have an issue with the chatter.  You kind-of expect that on the weekend.  I think the dynamics are different compared to the weekday commuting traffic.  On the weekend, you're going out with mates to have a good time.  During the week, you're on the train to get to/from work and you don't want to be disturbed!  (At least that's what it's like for me.  I realise that some people also work on the weekend, but I'm generalising here.)

So we have a 3-car train, seats almost full.  Two of the 3 cars as supposedly "quiet cars".  It's the weekend, the time to have fun with your mates.  Unless everyone crams into the middle car, there is obviously going to be some spill into the first and last cars.

I posted in the passenger loading thread that it's time to run 6-car trains all weekend (for loading purposes).  This would also allow for the quiet car rules to be effective.  4 cars should be sufficient for the people heading to the city with mates, allowing the other 2 for those who prefer a quieter ride.

[Fares_Fair]

An issue raised with me this morning was the fact that there is not enough room on the 5:16pm ex-Central service and people are almost always left standing. This forces people into the Quiet cars who do not necessarily want to be there if they like to talk a lot (or destress after a tough day at work).

It was pointed out that if the Caboolture people didn't occupy the express train seats there wouldn't be the noisy people in the quiet carriage. I wouldn't blame the Caboolture commuters myself, anyone would prefer an express service home if they could get it.

At the end of the day, common courtesy must prevail and the quiet car can never be enforced as much as some would like.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[STB]

I must admit I've always been a bit confused with the quiet cars on 3 car sets.  Yesterday I caught a 3 car SMU to the city and sat in the 3rd car among people just enjoying themselves along with their kids, who were looking outside, discovering what it's like to travel by train etc.  You can't quiet those sorts of people and nor should you try IMO.  I'm starting to think that the quiet car really should only apply in peak hours, in off peak people are generally more relaxed and aren't generally heading to/from stressful places.  I should note that since leaving my job, I have vowed never to be a 9-5 robot worker ever again, hence a dramatic career change .

[ozbob]

Noticed this sign at Central earlier today ..



Photograph R Dow 26th December 2010

For a three car set, the last carriage is the 'quiet car', six car set first and last carriages 'quiet cars'.

[somebody]

It's about time this was clarified.  But one of the reasons for having the front and back cars being quiet cars was to have fixed signs.  This seems to undo this possibility.

Maybe they should have said 2nd & 5th in 6 car trains, and middle cars in 3 car trains.

I would presume that a 6 car train with the back 3 cars locked is treated as a 6 car train here, but it is possible to argue that it is a 3 car train so long as the back 3 cars aren't opened somewhere along the route.

[ozbob]

Nothing on the QR web site other than general information.

http://www.queenslandrail.com.au/AboutUs/MediaCentre/Campaigns/Pages/QueenslandRailQuietCarriage.aspx

Not sure how long those signs have been out, but I would assume at least three days.

[justanotheruser]

It's about time this was clarified.  But one of the reasons for having the front and back cars being quiet cars was to have fixed signs.  This seems to undo this possibility.

Maybe they should have said 2nd & 5th in 6 car trains, and middle cars in 3 car trains.

I would presume that a 6 car train with the back 3 cars locked is treated as a 6 car train here, but it is possible to argue that it is a 3 car train so long as the back 3 cars aren't opened somewhere along the route.

out of curiosity how many places do they have 3 car trains running and for what distance? I am aware of rosewood line and I don't see this being a big issue there. However if there are long journeys in 3 car trains that is different.

[Golliwog]

I see the occasional 3 car train at Ferny Grove, though I can't recall seeing one in peak.

[Emmie]

Shorncliffe is usually a 3 car on weekends, sometimes quite full.

[p858snake]

It's about time this was clarified.  But one of the reasons for having the front and back cars being quiet cars was to have fixed signs.  This seems to undo this possibility.

I don't think 3 car units get switched around all that much so it might still be doable.

[Arnz]

It's about time this was clarified.  But one of the reasons for having the front and back cars being quiet cars was to have fixed signs.  This seems to undo this possibility.

Maybe they should have said 2nd & 5th in 6 car trains, and middle cars in 3 car trains.

I would presume that a 6 car train with the back 3 cars locked is treated as a 6 car train here, but it is possible to argue that it is a 3 car train so long as the back 3 cars aren't opened somewhere along the route.

out of curiosity how many places do they have 3 car trains running and for what distance? I am aware of rosewood line and I don't see this being a big issue there. However if there are long journeys in 3 car trains that is different.

Ferny Grove, Beenleigh, Shorncliffe, Nambour, Cleveland and Doomben on weekends are usually 3-cars.  A lot of inbound services to the City on all mentioned lines carry reasonable loads.  I can speak that one of the Saturday morning 3-car Nambour-City express usually has very few (normally backward facing) seats available at Elimbah (standing loads leaving Caboolture).

Edit: Cleveland and Doomben weekends too are usually 3-cars.