Richlands to Springfield Central - Stage 2

[ozbob]

Letter to the editor published South West News 21st November 2012 page 15

More parking , less talk

[Gazza]

and additional capacity added at springfield station itself

Not without going multideck.

[Jonno]

and additional capacity added at springfield station itself

Not without going multideck.

Bad bad bad bad bad bad urban outcome!!  Around the globe park'nrides are bring replaced with development becuse it creates higher patronage and far better communities.

Only in Australia would we take a clean sheet opportunity and create a problem that will have to be fixed later. 

[ozbob]

They remove the cycle path, they restrict the park n' ride, there will be major difficulties with attempts to establish a feeder bus network due to the road layouts and besides TransLink seem to be unable to properly implement feeder bus systems.  What is going to happen is that people eager to catch the train is that they will arrive at  Springfield Central and Springfield, no parks and they will then be forced along Centenary Highway to already parked out situations at Richlands, Darra, ultimately being forced into Wacol and Gailes.  Many will just elect to continue by car, and just add to the diabolical congestion.

Mandurah has 3,700 car parks for a similar situation to Richlands - Springfield Central.  There are around 62 feeder bus routes to the Mandurah line as well.    Mandurah patronage increases have been most impressive and it has been the growth on that line that has taken the patronage on Transperth rail past that on SEQ rail network.

Springfield is going to be underutilised, the planning is abysmal and an embarrassment.

[somebody]

The Mandurah line is fast.  Without that, it would not have the same level of success, I say.

[ozbob]

Yes, so will Springfield, problem is not that many will be able to use it .. lol

Mandurah also has decent service frequency peak, 10 minute, off peak 15 minute ...

[somebody]

Yes, so will Springfield, problem is not that many will be able to use it .. lol

Not sure what you mean.  I cannot imagine that the Springfield line will have a comparable speed to the Mandurah line.

[SurfRail]

Mandurah is mainly fed with bus patronage actually.  The parking is important but not crucial.

Parking provision on the Springfield line really isn't that inconsistent with what is offered elsewhere on our network.

I'm not going to suggest we shouldn't argue for more, but I don't see it as a big problem.  People are obviously still getting onto Richlands trains somehow, even though it is parked out...

[HappyTrainGuy]

I'm not going to suggest we shouldn't argue for more, but I don't see it as a big problem.  People are obviously still getting onto Richlands trains somehow, even though it is parked out...

Via the very laughable feeder network 

There wouldn't be a large amount of people walking as the closest houses are about 800m away and last time I was there; there wasn't even a sealed pathway along the whole way to the South. The Bikeway might also be getting a bunch of people aswell.

[somebody]

Via the very laughable feeder network 

Probably, there are passengers as well as drivers in the cars reaching Richlands.

I think you're a bit negative about the feeder network - 466 isn't good, 535 has room for improvement, but 465/460/462 isn't too bad along Forest Lake Blvd to the shops/lake.

[HappyTrainGuy]

That's along one road. There are alot more houses between Forest Lake blvd and Poinsetta Road?/Inala Ave. What's stopping sending the 110 service to weave the backstreets between Inala to Richlands station. The 534/100 does something similar to help out some of those that live behind the shops in transfering at the Forest Lake Shops/Forest Lake Blvd Stop A. Why does the 460 even go to the City? Why can't it hook back in along Poinsetta Road?/Inala Ave back to Inala Plaza all day. Its decent but its just another Chermside or Browns Plains. Focus on getting there to the Forest Lake Shops/Inala Plaza but forget the people surrounding the area.

[somebody]

So you would suggest something like Archerfield Rd and Boss Rd as needing a bus service?  Perhaps, but until you are running at 15 minute frequencies, you are only serving coverage markets.

[HappyTrainGuy]

I don't have access to google maps but I think I know the area you are referring to (I know where Archerfield Road is. South-West of Inala Plaza?). Not sure where Boss street is but if its the street that cuts through the centre and then links back up with Partridge Street to the Plaza then yes. It might be feeding to a current 2tph but the service does come a long way from the city and can easily be delayed. It also feeds quickly into the Plaza.

[ozbob]

Parking provision on the Springfield line really isn't that inconsistent with what is offered elsewhere on our network.

Sorry SurfRail, the proposed parking at Springfield and Springfield Lakes is a lot less than most other similar situations.  It is a flop ..

Eg.

Some example  park and ride spaces at stations.  Source  http://translink.com.au/travel-information/network-information/park-n-ride

Richlands 650, Springfield 200 and Springfield Central 100.  Darra has 206 'official spaces' probably an additional 400 to 500 cars in the streets around there any week day.  It is worsening too I have noted.

Varsity Lakes 300, Robina 894, Nerang 690, Helensvale 877, Coomera 565.

Caboolture 675 ....

Gailes "77" officially lol, but verge parking is basically unlimited

Be kind of bizarre, 100 park and ride at Springfield Central, 400 or so at Gailes.   

Yep, real smart ..

Cleveland 238

East Ipswich 258 ....

Dinmore 490 ...

Oxley 191

Ferny Grove 1000

[colinw]

This line is going to have minimal walk up patronage as well. Maybe a little bit at Springfield Lakes, but that is all. The missing station at Ellen Grove is the only one with any decent walk up potential, as well as the potential to be a major park & ride hub being right on a motorway junction.

QLD, your name is Failure!

[somebody]

This line is going to have minimal walk up patronage as well. Maybe a little bit at Springfield Lakes, but that is all. The missing station at Ellen Grove is the only one with any decent walk up potential, as well as the potential to be a major park & ride hub being right on a motorway junction.

What about Springfield Central, I thought that was to have significant walk up patronage?

To be honest, I'm not that concerned with the lack of parking.  Look at Helensvale, the sea of parking around that prevents the shopping centre being closer to the station.

I'm much more concerned about the planned 2tph service!

[ozbob]

2 tph off peak, limited parking, walk up access to Springfield Central is not easy.  Might be a bit different in some respects if true TOD eventually developed but most of the residential is too far to walk by a long shot.

No, monumental failure shaping up ...  plenty of space at Springfield Central to put in some temporary car parks ...

Cr Paul Tully said of Springfield Central  "Even Mr Magoo could see the need for at least 500 spaces " --> http://division2news.blogspot.com.au/2012/07/new-springfield-central-railway-station.html ...

Anyone who really understands the area would agree with Cr Tully ...

[somebody]

I think "temporary" car parks is moonshine.  Once the car park is there, it isn't going anywhere.

Surely once the station is in, development will happen around it and particularly if the service is reasonable (i.e. 4tph+).

[ozbob]

I think "temporary" car parks is moonshine.  Once the car park is there, it isn't going anywhere.

Surely once the station is in, development will happen around it and particularly if the service is reasonable (i.e. 4tph+).

No not moonshine at all.  As it is the present population is widely dispersed so difficult to adequately get there by other than car.  Feeder bus is not going to work that well if at all.  Temporary car park has been put forward initially by Cr Morrison the local councillor (who I first met in 2006 to discuss the Springfield railway) and is a good idea.  It will be years before there is adequate bus and other options, and development occurs.  To make the railway work from day one it does need a lot better parking support.  This will allow a better progression to feeder bus as density increases.  No problem to do it at Carindale, Assistant Minister for Public Transport's electorate ..

Locals well understand what is needed.

[somebody]

I doubt the Carindale car park will be used for anything else in the foreseeable future.  I guess we'll see.

[colinw]

What about Springfield Central, I thought that was to have significant walk up patronage?

Here's Springfield Central station site - see much walkable near here?  (Particularly if its 35C and humid).

Maybe with some decent infill development it will be, but for the vast majority of residents of Springfield - the people who will be the day to day patrons of the line -  this station may as well be on the moon if it doesn't have a good carpark or at least frequent & direct feeder buses.

[somebody]

I see what you are getting at.  Looks like the only people who would even want to use the station are near Grande Ave and/or Springfield-Greenbank arterial.

[ozbob]

I see what you are getting at.  Looks like the only people who would even want to use the station are near Grande Ave and/or Springfield-Greenbank arterial.

Yep, and there are significant numbers who come through the Ripley Valley and Cunningham Highway as well.  They will try to use the rail but as I commented earlier, won't be able to park and will attempt to get closer and eventually give up. 

Ferny Grove 1000 car parking spaces ....  not that different in many respects ...

[somebody]

Pretty keen to come from Redbank Plains or beyond and use the Springfield line rather than the Ipswich line.

[ozbob]

Traffic issues ... 

It is disappointing that the first real new extension of the rail network is being handled so poorly from the planning perspective. The prolonged fight to get the line double from Richlands to Stepham (now Springfield), the continued representations to get stations built.  Springfield (Lakes) was not going to built either initially.  They really do botch transport projects in south-east Queensland ...

[colinw]

For this line to really tap the fast growing residential areas opening up to the west of Springfield, the proposed extension to a Redbank Plains Park & Ride needs to happen sooner rather than later. At least the elevated design of Springfield Central facilitates that extension.  With any luck the forthcoming Japanese funded development of Ripley Valley will include developer contribution to the rail extension to Ripley from Springfield, rather than the previous Government's lame brained idea of building Ripley as a separate spur from Ipswich (which is fine if it is part of an Ipswich via Springfield loop, but building two dead end spurs with a "future railway" bit in the middle was a daft concept).

Until such time as all that happens, the existing line has to cater for the relatively low density residential nature of the area, which means adequate parking, decent feeder buses along the arterials, and actually building Ellen Grove so Carole Park & south western Forest Lake people can actually access the trains they will soon hear whizzing past.

Given that Springfield Central is also off to one side of the developing Springfield CBD (a similar relationship to that CBD to Brisbane Central to Brisbane), it is also critical that the station is made conveniently walkable to Orion and the USQ camps, NEC building, etc, and possibly some kind of shuttle bus provided. I would be disappointed if there wasn't a USQ campus shuttle meeting all trains.

[somebody]

Traffic issues ... 

Not helped by the dodgy feeder bus network: http://jp.translink.com.au/travel-information/network-information/stops-and-stations/stop/310068/timetable

Surely a feeder bus should meet every train at Goodna towards Redbank Plains in the PM peak.

[ozbob]

I don't hold high hopes for the feeder bus on Springfield either ...

[somebody]

I would say that the focus should be on the already denser areas meeting the express services on the Ipswich line.

[Jonno]

Bad planning/urban design policy + bad walking/cycling policy + bad frequency policy + bad feeder/cross town services = bad park'n ride policy

[Jonno]

What about Springfield Central, I thought that was to have significant walk up patronage?

Here's Springfield Central station site - see much walkable near here?  (Particularly if its 35C and humid).

Maybe with some decent infill development it will be, but for the vast majority of residents of Springfield - the people who will be the day to day patrons of the line -  this station may as well be on the moon if it doesn't have a good carpark or at least frequent & direct feeder buses.

The link shows the land as it is now.  The master plan shows the development of a very walkable mixed use development.  So does Trackstar video.  http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=related&v=efy_kDKqJbQ&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Defy_kDKqJbQ%26feature%3Drelated&gl=GB

So we have been calling for infrastructure to be delivered before development and when it is we claim we need a park n ride.  Maybe with separated cycling lanes on the roads we can see the significant increase in cycling that Europen and US cities have seen.

[ozbob]

The fact is Jonno the parking is inadequate, the glossy stuff is many years away.  The railway is not going to be well utilised at all as it is.  Experience elsewhere suggests that a lot more park and ride is needed, particularly on opening.  This can be achieved by temporary facilities at Central.  There is a time for some commonsense and not blind adherence to an idealistic notion, this is just going to fail miserably as is.  Public want to use public transport but they won't even be able to reliably get to the railway stations.

All this means even more cars on Centenary Highway and associated roads, an anti-public transport result. 

All the councillors and all the residents I have met with all say the same thing.  They want to use the railway but won't be able too in the main.

[HappyTrainGuy]

This line is going to have minimal walk up patronage as well. Maybe a little bit at Springfield Lakes, but that is all. The missing station at Ellen Grove is the only one with any decent walk up potential, as well as the potential to be a major park & ride hub being right on a motorway junction.

What about Springfield Central, I thought that was to have significant walk up patronage?

To be honest, I'm not that concerned with the lack of parking.  Look at Helensvale, the sea of parking around that prevents the shopping centre being closer to the station.

I'm much more concerned about the planned 2tph service!

Richlands could potentially have alot of walk up patronage if the area around it is developed into some decent housing. But that won't be easy given the amount of private property owners.

Springfield would be in a different zone wouldn't it? Would be interesting to see how many pop into Richlands for a park + cheaper fare.

[ozbob]

Richlands is parked out early these days.  Their only hope will be Gailes ... lol  unrestricted verge parking, a least you know you will get a park there even if a reasonable walk at times.  What a farce they have created ...  Go Gailes, the saviour of the West ...  gee they might have to make Gailes DDA compliant ...

[#Metro]

Not everywhere is like West End.

EVEN IF a TOD is built around the station, it will do NOTHING for residents existing and future further out beyond the 800m walk up catchment. Springfield has shameless anti-bus road layouts that make it hard for PT. In this case car parking is a tool worth deploying. The land is also cheap at this stage as well, so acquisition costs not so high if left until later when land prices rise, making p+r more expensive.

Charge for car parking as well.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Charge for car parking as well.

With these fares you gotta be joking.

[#Metro]

With these fares you gotta be joking.

Car parking should be charged for where demand exceeds limited supply. This will encourage those who have options to take the bus or cycle or walk rather then park their vehicle.

Mandurah is mainly fed with bus patronage actually.  The parking is important but not crucial.

Reference please?

[ozbob]

Kind of bizarre outcome this, people driving past Springfield Central, Springfield stations because no parking and heading to Richlands, Darra, Gailes and Wacol, compounding the already significant congestion and parking issues generally. Only real hope will be verge parking at Gailes and Wacol.  We might eventually see cars lining the road verge from Goodna to Wacol ....  wankers ...

[HappyTrainGuy]

Car parking should be charged for where demand exceeds limited supply. This will encourage those who have options to take the bus or cycle or walk rather then park their vehicle.

I'd only advocate for that if there is a proper feeder bus network nearby. Otherwise its a flawed system with our current fare structure. Bald Hills..... What feeder network. Sunshine..... doesn't have a single bus route at all going past it. Try applying that to Strathpine-Lawnton where every bus route is hourly all day and most buses are back at the Depot by 6.30. Alot of people would be telling Translink where to shove its paid parking and block out the surrounding streets. In the case of Lawnton they'll just park on that vacant lot on the Eastern side which is larger than the Park and Ride on the West side

Kind of bizarre outcome this, people driving past Springfield Central, Springfield stations because no parking and heading to Richlands, Darra, Gailes and Wacol, compounding the already significant congestion and parking issues generally. Only real hope will be verge parking at Gailes and Wacol.  We might eventually see cars lining the road verge from Goodna to Wacol ....  wankers ...

Park in the Golf Course.

HAZARD ON GREEN 5!!! 

[somebody]

Mandurah is mainly fed with bus patronage actually.  The parking is important but not crucial.

Reference please?

Second this.  I thought P&R, feeders, kiss 'n' ride all made a worthy contribution.