Eastern Busway

[Mr X]

I had the same lecture 

Are we talking about the same course? 

[O_128]

I had the same lecture 

Are we talking about the same course? 

Yep

[dwb]

As it is, you need to spend some bucks on installing some sort of accessway from the bus turnaround to the local streets for any of this to work.  I am certain that any objection from UQ could be steamrollered into submission by compulsory acquisition without any serious problem.  The route to Indooroopilly though is less than ideal once you have left the uni grounds, although up to Toowong is fine.

There is a fairly strong "gentleman's agreement" in place currently, however I do not believe that doesn't mean we shouldn't be articulating a need for change and discussing it so that if and when anyone has the balls, we can renegotiate said agreement, I'm not saying the state should steam roll UQ, but they could certainly come to a mutually beneficial agreement I'm sure. Or UQ can keep stuffing its staff and students around and keep building more and more expensive multilevel carparks to the detriment of the rest of the road network.

UQ will not build anymore carparks, in fact they are trying to remove as much as possible. I had a lecture last semester by the UQ town planner and he has begged management to let buses run through but is told that it will result in people wanting to drive across. ( apparently legislation can be passed to force UQ to let buses through) The planner is also a big supporter of a a boundary street light rail bridge and extending a light rail city glider to UQ before following the cityglider route.

Give it long enough and UQ senate will wake up to the value of PT investment by Govt in their campus and be begging for it.

[Golliwog]

So, just had a thought about route 29. May be a great way of reducing dead running on the network and allowing for a complaint free move for route 209 from via the Gabba to via Buranda. Was just thinking you often see the tri-axials on both 66 and 109, so somewhere in there they would have to be running between the two routes. All 3 routes are going to be every 15 minutes off-peak.

[achiruel]

Here's an idea: extend the 29 to Bulimba via existing 230 route.  Make a nice quick trip to UQ/PA Hospital/Boggo Rd for Bulimba/Balmoral residents and also for people coming from Hamilton (come to Apollo Rd or Bulimba from Bretts Wharf).

Would also help the atrocious frequency of the buses in that area, transfers could be made at 'Gabba for people going to the CBD.

[Bulimba30A]

Even better, do that for 29 and send 230/235 via Story Bridge.  The bus services in that area really are bad, and appalling after 7/8pm when the "loop" system commences.  Thank goodness for the CityCat!  No wonder there is parking problems at the CityCat terminals.

[dwb]

Even better, do that for 29 and send 230/235 via Story Bridge.  The bus services in that area really are bad, and appalling after 7/8pm when the "loop" system commences.  Thank goodness for the CityCat!  No wonder there is parking problems at the CityCat terminals.

wow, that is a complicated timetable (http://translink.com.au/resources/travel-information/services-and-timetables/timetables/110606_230,P231,235,P236.pdf), there are 5 different exceptions and variations :S

Broadly I like the idea of sending one of the Bulimba routes to UQ however I think that interchange is ok as well and we shouldn't be weighing the 29 down with non busway legs. I'd strongly think Bulimba could get simplification... are there no BUZes to Bulimba (no John I don't think that would be an over BUZzing). Also, they are probably achieving a high frequency on route 29 with very little resources (probably only <4 buses) given the short nature of the route. I think Brisbane should have more shorter routes at higher frequencies, especially in the inner 5-8kms.

As an aside, after reading the timetable, I'm wondering how the computer works out your fare if you board a 230 that then goes via 235 route to the city using the loop. Aren't you effectively boarding one route and hoping off another??

[SurfRail]

As an aside, after reading the timetable, I'm wondering how the computer works out your fare if you board a 230 that then goes via 235 route to the city using the loop. Aren't you effectively boarding one route and hoping off another??

Looped services like this are generally set-up in the machine so that the terminus is simply an intermediate stop on that particular leg of the driver's shift.  One of the Carina drivers could probably confirm.

[dwb]

As an aside, after reading the timetable, I'm wondering how the computer works out your fare if you board a 230 that then goes via 235 route to the city using the loop. Aren't you effectively boarding one route and hoping off another??

Looped services like this are generally set-up in the machine so that the terminus is simply an intermediate stop on that particular leg of the driver's shift.  One of the Carina drivers could probably confirm.

Even where the route number changes? Or perhaps the one whole loop is programmed in and all stops on that loop are valid, but the bus just doesn't always go there? Come to think of it, I seem to remember a problem at the very beginning where the driver changed and I got a fixed fee, but surely that's all been taken care of in the programming as lots of routes have driver changes midway.

[Otto]

Even where the route number changes? Or perhaps the one whole loop is programmed in and all stops on that loop are valid, but the bus just doesn't always go there? Come to think of it, I seem to remember a problem at the very beginning where the driver changed and I got a fixed fee, but surely that's all been taken care of in the programming as lots of routes have driver changes midway.

Was the driver changed, or was it the bus changed, or both bus and driver mid route ?

[dwb]

Was the driver changed, or was it the bus changed, or both bus and driver mid route ?

I think it may have happened twice, once was just a driver change, hence my confusion at the fee, but perhaps I'd done something else wrong. I think I have also been on a bus that had power issues, so we couldn't tag off to tag onto the replacement bus. But this is all well and truly in the past!

[STB]

AFAIK back in the early days, the Go Card on the buses was based on the route number, so if the driver changed route numbers or had the same route number but going inbound instead of outbound (eg: route 563), the system thought you failed to touch off (eg: you continued on former outbound 563 to an inbound 563) and would charge you the fixed fare, hence you had to touch off before the driver switched the trips on the DCU, then touch back on again when the driver had switched the trips over on the DCU.  It also affected passengers who got on board the bus before the driver switched the trips over at the end of his run, and those passengers where the driver switches it to the next trip before he reaches the terminus. 

Nowadays I think it's based on the DCU you touched on at, so the driver changing the trip number on the DCU doesn't affect what outcome you have when you go to touch off, ie: it should correctly charge the fare, rather than give you a fixed fare as long as you touch off on the same bus regardless of what trips the driver continues on as.

[SurfRail]

Even where the route number changes? Or perhaps the one whole loop is programmed in and all stops on that loop are valid, but the bus just doesn't always go there?

The system can deal with stops out of sequence, which is similar but not quite the same issue.  For example, the "set-down only" Route 20 trips leaving Nerang after 7:30pm each day can take one of a number of possible routes to drop passengers off depending on where people need to be along Routes 20 or 20A.  I've never noticed any problem with the DCU recognising where it is provided you are at a designated stop somewhere on either route.

[O_128]

Of all the inner city suburbs the wynnum road section seems to have the worst PT, Didn't the river city blueprint identify the 5km ring as a densification area? Also where is the 227 short trip?

[dwb]

Didn't the river city blueprint identify the 5km ring as a densification area? Also where is the 227 short trip?

The River City Blueprint looked at policy revisions as to how we interpret character, to both downzone the development potential of some areas where a policy conflict exists between character housing and a higher (for instance LMR) land use code. In other small defined areas it proposed a new housing type that would be slightly more dense that would be code assessable. The major changes it proposed in draft stage to densification in the city were in Bowen Hills and Woolloongabba.... ie in major change areas associated with Cross River Rail and areas already partly under planning for by ULDA. For Bulimba however the plan also suggested a green link from Teneriffe to Bulimba to drastically improve PT and walk/cycle connection to the city.

[Bulimba30A]

Of all the inner city suburbs the wynnum road section seems to have the worst PT, Didn't the river city blueprint identify the 5km ring as a densification area? Also where is the 227 short trip?

As far as I can remember, the Balmoral services Monday to Friday actually weren't too bad during the day about 10-15 years ago, at least before the renumbering and the splitting of Balmoral from Eagle Farm/Toombul.

For the rest of Wynnum Rd, I think it is largely historical. 

All of Wynnum Road east of Morningside station was covered by Bayside Buslines (except the old 31 (part of the current 232) which really didn't run on Wynnum Rd).  If you really want to see how bad public transport was in the east, just have a look at one off those old timetables (not sure whether I have kept any).  Of course there was always the Cleveland line, but that was literally it except for a few ad hoc buses Monday to Friday!

What it has meant though that there seems to be an ongoing reticience to provide any sort of decent bus service along Wynnum Rd.  Really, both the 215 and 220 should both be direct down Wynnum Rd providing Cityxpress services through Cannon Hill, Morningside and Norman Park (with 214 serving Richmond Rd/Seven Hills).  It is seriously painful having to meeander through Seven Hills and then approach the City from the western side with only the 227 providing any service at all on that stretch of Wynnum Rd (and that has only been recently upgraded to provide weekend services).  It would also improve options/frequency from Morningside Station inbound.

And for those about to go on about it duplicating the train line, it would only do that marginally.  First, the train only really hits Wynnum Rd at Morningsideand then accesses the City from the west, not really convenient compared to the road and doesn't serve Wynnum West, Tingalpa, Manly West, Wakerley, or Belmont at all.

[Bulimba30A]

Even better, do that for 29 and send 230/235 via Story Bridge.  The bus services in that area really are bad, and appalling after 7/8pm when the "loop" system commences.  Thank goodness for the CityCat!  No wonder there is parking problems at the CityCat terminals.

I'd strongly think Bulimba could get simplification... are there no BUZes to Bulimba (no John I don't think that would be an over BUZzing). Also, they are probably achieving a high frequency on route 29 with very little resources (probably only <4 buses) given the short nature of the route. I think Brisbane should have more shorter routes at higher frequencies, especially in the inner 5-8kms.

Apart from the night loop system I think routes 230/235 between Wynnum Rd and Bulimba are fine, they just need increased frequency.  There is one major hill between Riding Rd and Thynne Rd so I think there needs to be direct services down both of them all the time.  As for the 232, thats another story which I don't have the energy to tackle right now.

[O_128]

Even better, do that for 29 and send 230/235 via Story Bridge.  The bus services in that area really are bad, and appalling after 7/8pm when the "loop" system commences.  Thank goodness for the CityCat!  No wonder there is parking problems at the CityCat terminals.

I'd strongly think Bulimba could get simplification... are there no BUZes to Bulimba (no John I don't think that would be an over BUZzing). Also, they are probably achieving a high frequency on route 29 with very little resources (probably only <4 buses) given the short nature of the route. I think Brisbane should have more shorter routes at higher frequencies, especially in the inner 5-8kms.

232 needs to be redone so as to serve Bulimba and Hawthorne road only and go to city via story bridge, at least 30 min. i would then support a Bulimba- Carindale cross town route half hourly.
Apart from the night loop system I think routes 230/235 between Wynnum Rd and Bulimba are fine, they just need increased frequency.  There is one major hill between Riding Rd and Thynne Rd so I think there needs to be direct services down both of them all the time.  As for the 232, thats another story which I don't have the energy to tackle right now.

[SurfRail]

As far as I can remember, the Balmoral services Monday to Friday actually weren't too bad during the day about 10-15 years ago, at least before the renumbering and the splitting of Balmoral from Eagle Farm/Toombul.

For the rest of Wynnum Rd, I think it is largely historical. 

All of Wynnum Road east of Morningside station was covered by Bayside Buslines (except the old 31 (part of the current 232) which really didn't run on Wynnum Rd).  If you really want to see how bad public transport was in the east, just have a look at one off those old timetables (not sure whether I have kept any).  Of course there was always the Cleveland line, but that was literally it except for a few ad hoc buses Monday to Friday!

What it has meant though that there seems to be an ongoing reticience to provide any sort of decent bus service along Wynnum Rd.  Really, both the 215 and 220 should both be direct down Wynnum Rd providing Cityxpress services through Cannon Hill, Morningside and Norman Park (with 214 serving Richmond Rd/Seven Hills).  It is seriously painful having to meeander through Seven Hills and then approach the City from the western side with only the 227 providing any service at all on that stretch of Wynnum Rd (and that has only been recently upgraded to provide weekend services).  It would also improve options/frequency from Morningside Station inbound.

And for those about to go on about it duplicating the train line, it would only do that marginally.  First, the train only really hits Wynnum Rd at Morningsideand then accesses the City from the west, not really convenient compared to the road and doesn't serve Wynnum West, Tingalpa, Manly West, Wakerley, or Belmont at all.

Another reason to bring in somebody with no historical hang-ups or axes to grind to redesign the network from the ground up.

[Fattious]

Also where is the 227 short trip?

The planned 227 short run service(s) to commence 6th June was overlooked. The service will commence in the next timetable updates over coming months. They should extend the short run 230 services and route via story bridge

[ozbob]

From the Brisbanetimes click here!

Eastern Busway on the skids

Eastern Busway on the skids
Ellen Lutton
July 24, 2011

COMPLETION of the Eastern Busway in Brisbane is in doubt, with no new funding available and the project now slated as a "concept".

The $466 million second stage of the dedicated bus lane project, a 1.05-kilometre stretch from Buranda to Main Avenue at Coorparoo, will be completed later this year, three months ahead of schedule.

It will provide a traffic-free bus route from Coorparoo and Stones Corner to the existing South East Busway at Buranda and relieve congested Old Cleveland Road.

The first section, between Princess Alexandra Hospital and Buranda was completed in late 2009.

Authorities said the busway's second stage would save commuters up to nine minutes a trip.

Original plans for the busway suggested the next stage - to Bennetts Road at Coorparoo - would be built in the next four years, although this was dependent on federal government funding.

The plans also indicated busway links from Bennetts Road to Carindale, Chandler and the outer eastern suburb of Capalaba won't be built until 2020 to 2026 if the project does not attract federal support.

Last year the state government said it had not yet secured federal government funding to bring forward further sections of the busway.

Now, 12 months later, there is still no funding, a spokesperson for Transport Minister Annastacia Palaszczuk said. "Funding will be considered in future budgets but right now the government is focused on a massive reconstruction effort right across Queensland and that's where our focus should lie," the spokesperson said.

However, the latest Queensland Infrastructure Plan, released by the state government last week, revealed any further plans for the Eastern Busway were a "concept".

Public transport lobby spokesman Robert Dow said the Eastern Busway might never get beyond stage two.

"This may be as far as the busway ever gets, which is incredibly frustrating because those who need these vital public transport links are those who live further out," he said.

"All those other eastern suburbs are where better public transport is really needed. The new busway actually duplicates existing rail lines at Buranda and Coorparoo.

"Obviously these stages need to happen in order to get out to the other suburbs but if the busway stops here, it's going to be very wasteful indeed.''

Mr Dow said the cost of the project was enormous.

''Two bus stops have cost nearly half-a-billion dollars,'' he said.

"There is no funding ... I don't know how this project is ever going to get finished."

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/eastern-busway-on-the-skids-20110723-1huie.html

[O_128]

Good riddance I say, Heres a little unknown tip. By converting road lanes to bus lanes you save money 

[#Metro]

How about plan B???
Take it down from class A to class B

[Mr X]

I truely wonder how we ever got the SE busway in one go- if it was built now we would still be digging through Mater Hill with a possible connection to Woolloongabba!!

[O_128]

How about plan B???
Take it down from class A to class B

I agree the class A gets the buses past the worst of the congestion, Bus lanes with priority are fine.

[Golliwog]

I truely wonder how we ever got the SE busway in one go- if it was built now we would still be digging through Mater Hill with a possible connection to Woolloongabba!!

I didn't think it did get done in one go? Didn't they open CC to Woolloongabba first, then later open all the way to 8 Mile Plains?

[Mr X]

One year later I think yes.

But if it was built now it would be like..
2010- Cultural Centre - Victoria bridge
2012- Cultural Centre to Mater Hill
2014 - Mater Hill to Woolloongabba
2017 - Woolloongabba to Buranda
2020 - Buranda to Greenslopes
etc. etc. with Eight Mile Plains finished in 2100

[Golliwog]

How about plan B???
Take it down from class A to class B

I agree the class A gets the buses past the worst of the congestion, Bus lanes with priority are fine.

I'll give you that yes, bus lanes with priority will get buses there faster. But thats not a busway, and while it would suffice for some time, don't think it will work as well as a seperate busway. Having a seperate busway also gives you something set aside for light rail (if it actually ever happens), where as bus lanes are easily changed/modified/removed as per Coronation Drive.

[somebody]

Public transport lobby spokesman Robert Dow said the Eastern Busway might never get beyond stage two.

"This may be as far as the busway ever gets, which is incredibly frustrating because those who need these vital public transport links are those who live further out," he said.

"All those other eastern suburbs are where better public transport is really needed. The new busway actually duplicates existing rail lines at Buranda and Coorparoo.

"Obviously these stages need to happen in order to get out to the other suburbs but if the busway stops here, it's going to be very wasteful indeed.''

Mr Dow said the cost of the project was enormous.

''Two bus stops have cost nearly half-a-billion dollars,'' he said.

"There is no funding ... I don't know how this project is ever going to get finished."

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/eastern-busway-on-the-skids-20110723-1huie.html

When did we say that?  They must be referencing an old release, unless I'm mistaken.

[ozbob]

Yes, but good the issue of funding raised. This is not related to the recent release re Eastern busway but older concerns.  Bus priority needs improvement all over.  What is concerning that most projects are now on hold with speculative completion dates.

[#Metro]

I'll give you that yes, bus lanes with priority will get buses there faster. But thats not a busway, and while it would suffice for some time, don't think it will work as well as a seperate busway. Having a seperate busway also gives you something set aside for light rail (if it actually ever happens), where as bus lanes are easily changed/modified/removed as per Coronation Drive.

Yes it is not as good as Ferrari, but we don't have the cash for Ferrari anyway, so what can be done?

[Stillwater]

With projects on hold and speculative completion dates, so much for strategic transport planning.  It seems that whenever the state government can't meet a deadline or fund a project to which it has committed previously, its the federal government that has the responsibility shifted to it.  Just publish another version of the strategy stating it is so.  Problem fixied.  It is a bit like me taking a public notice in the Courier-Mail stating that I don't have the inclination or the money to build a fence with my neighbour and it is his/her responsibility to pay for the lot.

[O_128]

I truely wonder how we ever got the SE busway in one go- if it was built now we would still be digging through Mater Hill with a possible connection to Woolloongabba!!

I didn't think it did get done in one go? Didn't they open CC to Woolloongabba first, then later open all the way to 8 Mile Plains?

Wooloongabba opened in time for the Olympics and eight mile plains a year later. Still Bus lanes could be implemented tomorrow and give a huge benefit.

[Golliwog]

Still Bus lanes could be implemented tomorrow and give a huge benefit.

If they could be enforced. I doubt people would adhere to it, even with police enforcement. Especially if theres no massive increase in bus frequency.

[dwb]

Still Bus lanes could be implemented tomorrow and give a huge benefit.

If they could be enforced. I doubt people would adhere to it, even with police enforcement. Especially if theres no massive increase in bus frequency.

You don't need police enforcement, you can do it with cameras.

[Golliwog]

You don't need police enforcement, you can do it with cameras.

Do we have those cameras anywhere else in QLD?

[dwb]

You don't need police enforcement, you can do it with cameras.

Do we have those cameras anywhere else in QLD?

Is that relevant?

[Golliwog]

If they already have used them somewhere then they'll already have someone they can order them through. If not they would have to work out who to buy them from/do a tender etc.

BTW, what sort of camera are we talking here? Just a standard video/picture camera or is it something special?

[O_128]

If they already have used them somewhere then they'll already have someone they can order them through. If not they would have to work out who to buy them from/do a tender etc.

BTW, what sort of camera are we talking here? Just a standard video/picture camera or is it something special?

I though you would just have cameras at even intervals along the bus lane and then any thing that isn't a bus will have a fine sent out.

[dwb]

This is what they look like in Rio. Special camera sets just to detect cars using the bus lanes for more than one intersection (ie you are allowed to enter buslane to turn at the intersection, but not continue on in buslane).