RAIL - Back On Track Forum

Given what the LNP's "metro" became anything is possible.

Considering they're the party that thought up the Cleveland Solution, who knows? 

Quote from: AJ Transport on October 11, 2024, 19:58:46 PMI wonder if the LNP are considering building the line with fewer stations to speed up construction times but still keep their promise of getting to Maroochydore by 2032.

Neither side will complete it by 2032, as long as they stick to the current DSCL alignment. Having to build kilometres of tunnels and overpasses, as well as two elevated stations. Even Birtinya is looking more like a stretch-goal than a target.

When the DSCL opens to Caloundra, what should be the name on the destination board? Governments are likely to favour 'Sunshine Coast', but should it just be 'Caloundra'?

What do Gold Coast Line trains show? I honestly can't remember. Is it Gold Coast, or Varsity Lakes? I imagine the Sunshine Coast Line will be similar.

Gold Coast trains say Gold Coast line. Destination is shown as Varsity Lakes. Just like Redcliffe line has Kippa-Ring as the destination. Shorncliffe line has Shorncliffe as destination.
Pretty sure the line here would be Sunshine Coast, with Caloundra as the destination when it gets there.

More reasons to extend DSCL terminus to Birtinya in the short term:

https://www.sunshinecoastnews.com.au/2024/10/18/proposal-to-increase-town-centre-building-limit-to-15-storeys/

https://x.com/ozbob13/status/1850635627810918438?t=RnsnW-H4Yyj_cfaKhOvz_w&s=19

Quote from: Stillwater on October 18, 2024, 07:44:13 AMMore reasons to extend DSCL terminus to Birtinya in the short term:

https://www.sunshinecoastnews.com.au/2024/10/18/proposal-to-increase-town-centre-building-limit-to-15-storeys/

Very hopeful now that Beerwah to Caloundra will be extended to Birtinya as stage 1.

Even if they do eventually get the train line to the airport, would they consider a faster way to get there? Right now it is quicker to Nambour and then a 19 minute drive to the airport.

Similar with how Gold Coast would be faster from Varsity Lakes, even if the tram went all the way to the airport.

So I wonder, what measure can they put in place now to make it faster from Brisbane to Sunshine Coast Airport?

I mean the question I'd ask is why is the journey from Brisbane to SC airport the one that needs to be sped up.
I'd focus on making airport access fastest for sunshine coast residents.

Brisbane folk wanting fast access to an airport can get there from the CBD in 20 mins via Airtrain.

It's not specifically for people in Brisbane CBD, but people on those train lines. For eg. For Sunshine Coast Airport, people north of Petrie  might be served by it. For Gold Coast Airport, people south of Logan might be better served by it. If it weren't for the transport times..
The proposed routes take you the long way through Sunshine Coast and Gold Coast.

The point on the Gold Coast line equidistant from BNE and OOL is somewhere north of Ormeau. But in terms of travel time the isochrone would be further north since it's so slow north of Beenleigh. It should take about 15 minutes from Varsity Lakes to Cooly at similar speeds to the current line, which means Beenleigh to Cooly in ~50 minutes including infill stations. But Beenleigh to Central today is about 48 minutes (on the express), plus the ~24 minutes Central-Domestic, plus up to 15 minutes' transfer delay. Post CRR and LGCFR we can knock a few minutes off Beenleigh-city, but no more than 10. So 74-89 minutes total, which leaves pretty much all of the Logan stations better off heading south.


On the North Coast line, Elimbah station is about 47 km as the crow flys from MCY, and 45 km from BNE (domestic). But this is very unrepresentative of travel time. Beerwah to Eagle Junction is 65 minutes, plus the 11 minutes EJ to Domestic, plus up to 15 minutes' transfer delay. Total 76-91 minutes.

At Gold Coast line equivalent speeds the "37 km" from Beerwah to MCY could be done in about 27 minutes, and surely no worse than 35 minutes. Beerwah-Petrie is done in 45 minutes today, so Petrie-MCY in 80.

Obviously not everyone will agree, but as a Logan resident, I already fly out of the Gold Coast where possible, despite the somewhat longer travel time. Loganlea Station to Domestic Station is 66 minutes. Loganlea to OOL is about 79 minutes, depending on traffic.

Until very recently, the fare to Domestic was well over $20 each way. Add in the fact that fares from OOL to SYD/MEL are often $30 cheaper each way, and that's a saving of around $100 per person for the journey. Easily makes up for ~30 minutes IMO.

Not sure if the same applies to MCY, as I've never flown to/from it, but I imagine it's also far less accessible to people living away from the Noosa-Caloundra coastal corridor due to some pretty poor trains & bus frequencies.

That's exactly right achiruel. I don't want to say it is just people being cheap. It is significant savings (eg. $300 Melbourne return from Brisbane vs $150 from Gold Coast vs $200 from Sunshine Coast for December dates).
It isn't just that though. It would also help distribute this traffic, spread out airport loads and reduce travel time to residents local airport rather than forcing them to the city.

Nambour, Woombye and Yandina to MCY is currently 19 min drive or over an hour on public transport.  These are the closest stations and one of them could possibly run a bus.

Idk why we're even talking about the MCY extension at this point. The point of DSCRL (and CAMCOS that preceded it) is to provide a fast alternative to driving for travelling between Sunshine Coast and Brisbane, and creating a trunk mass transit route for local travel within the Sunshine coast between the major urban centres. It serves much the same purpose as the Gold Coast line.

The extension to MCY was very much a "Stage 2" kinda deal even from the early CAMCOS days. It requires a wye junction at Maroochydore and some plans were even mode agnostic, suggesting it might not even be rail.

It's sooooooo far away it's barely worth the air to talk about. No way in hell we'll see an extension to MCY before 2040. At this stage I think we'll be lucky to get the extension to OOL by 2040

It's very much a "stretch goal" at this point so arguing that the alignment through the sunshine coast proper is making a trip to MCY slower for Moreton Bay residents is missing the point of the project entirely

My point was more it is so damn hard to get to the airport -- even if you live nearby, or on the train line -- right now.
I know it is far far away (2040 or so), which is why I don't understand why they can't run a more direct bus today instead.

Quote from: Stillwater on October 17, 2024, 18:07:06 PMWhen the DSCL opens to Caloundra, what should be the name on the destination board? Governments are likely to favour 'Sunshine Coast', but should it just be 'Caloundra'?

Quote from: achiruel on October 17, 2024, 18:11:36 PMWhat do Gold Coast Line trains show? I honestly can't remember. Is it Gold Coast, or Varsity Lakes? I imagine the Sunshine Coast Line will be similar.

Gold Coast Line trains show as "Gold Coast" on the destination boards and PIDs, although the terminus is Varsity Lakes.  On a similar note, Redcliffe Line trains show as "Redcliffe" on the destination boards and PIDs although the terminus is Kippa Ring.

I'd assume the DSCRL trains will just show as "Sunshine Coast" on the destination boards and PIDs with Caloundra and/or Birtinya as the terminus initially.

Couriermail --> Sunshine Coast Mayor to 'make sure' LNP delivers heavy rail promise $

QuoteAs a sweeping victory looks increasingly likely for the LNP across the Sunshine Coast, local government and business experts have been quick to remind the party of its ambitious rail promise.

The LNP leader and Queensland's new premier, David Crisafulli, promised voters the Direct Sunshine Coast Rail Line would be delivered to Maroochydore in time for the 2032 Olympic and Paralympic Games. ...

Quote... I'd assume the DSCRL trains will just show as "Sunshine Coast" on the destination boards and PIDs with Caloundra and/or Birtinya as the terminus initially. ...

This could be very confusing as the Sunshine Coast line presently refers to the section of the North Coast Line Brisbane <> Gympie North ( https://translink.com.au/sites/default/files/acquiadam-assets/timetables/231127-sunshine.pdf ).  I expect DSCRL desto's will be to the station terminus. I think they need to come up with a separate line name, to differentiate from the ' Sunshine Coast Line '.
DIRECT SC Line would probably do.

They could just call it North Coast Line and then refer to the spur as Sunshine Coast Line

I really hope that it will be completed.  They've got 8 years.

Ready, go! 

Quote from: minbrisbane on October 29, 2024, 07:51:39 AMI really hope that it will be completed.  They've got 8 years.

Ready, go! 

Their forward costings appear to indicate they're planning to start construction sometime after 2028: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-10-24/lnp-reveal-costs-commitment-queensland-election/104510856

The LNP are aware of the tight timeframe and have stated that it should still be buildable by 2032.

QuoteMr Janetzki was also questioned over the LNP's commitment to build further stages of the direct Sunshine Coast rail between Caloundra and Maroochydore.

The LNP has only allocated $40 million over the next four years for planning for the project, which means shovels wouldn't hit the ground until at least 2028.

Mr Janetzki believes it will still be possible to get the new rail line built by 2032.

"If we get that planning work done, and we're going to be in the best possible position to do that last stretch. And we're determined to make it happen," he said.

Quote from: SilverChased on October 29, 2024, 07:47:43 AMThey could just call it North Coast Line and then refer to the spur as Sunshine Coast Line

I think you are missing the point.  The Sunshine Coast line is firmly entrenched in all minds as the line between Brisbane and Gympie North.  It would be very confusing to name the DSCRL the ' Sunshine Coast Line '.  I am sure in time they will come up with an unique name and leave the Sunshine Coast line as is.

There would be a transitional period, but for tourists it would be more intuitive to call the line to Maroochydore the Sunshine Coast line.

^^ I tend to agree, calling the line to Maroochydore the Sunshine Coast line really makes the most sense.

I wouldn't think the current line name would be anymore entrenched than Station names like Park Road Station or Central Station, which are either being changed or for which change is being promoted.

Changing a line name is way above changing a station name.  Time will tell.

I agree to disagree!

Anyway don't expect shovels in the ground for rail for DSCRL till after 2028 which means it is very unlikely to Maroochydore before 2032, despite all the ' commitments '.

Line names change all the time, often as a result of extensions.

Eg Joondalup line became the Yanchep line.

Richlands line became the Springfield line.

Sydenham Line became the Sunbury line.

QuoteAnyway don't expect shovels in the ground for rail for DSCRL till after 2028

Indeed, 2028 to 2032 is only 4 years, and youd want the line open at least 6 months before the olympics

I would have said 2 years of planning 2025/26 and then shovels in the ground start of 2027, 4 years of construction.

Ok, you all win!  DSCRL becomes the Sunshine Coast Line, drop back to the NCL I guess for the old Sunny Coast Line.

(see I can change)   

Tend to agree re construction Gazza, in fact I would like to see it even earlier.  I really cannot see it getting past Birtinya prior to 2032.

Quote from: ozbob on October 29, 2024, 09:05:13 AMThe Sunshine Coast line is firmly entrenched in all minds as the line between Brisbane and Gympie North.

I'm not fully convinced about that. Yes, it has a long history of use. But as of DSCRL opening we will have two Sunshine Coast lines and need to differentiate them. Calling the coastal one the "direct" line even implies the other line will also get you there!

(If we end up calling it the "Direct Sunshine Coast line" I will be mad.)

So IMHO we can't call either line just "Sunshine Coast" - we could e.g. append "Hinterland" for the existing line, and the current terminus for the new coastal line - e.g. "Sunshine Coast (Caloundra) line". It's not great but it'll work.

And who knows, maybe a a decade from now the symbolic argument will win and they'll be called T1 and T2 or something.

I'd be inclined to call the old one the "Gympie and Nambour line"

Quote from: Gazza on October 29, 2024, 12:04:13 PMI'd be inclined to call the old one the "Gympie and Nambour line"

For SEQ it is Nambour/Gympie Line or if going further North it becomes the North Coast Line.

The LNP has good intentions, but will only get the DSCL (or whatever it is called) to Birtinya, with firm planning to Maroochydore. That is what is physically possible before the Olympics, despite the rhetoric and hopeful thinking. Might be wise to plan a super bus transfer facility at Birtinya.

Interesting ... Birtinya is in the electorate of Jarrod Bleijie, the new State Infrastructure Minister. The man in the neighbouring electorate of Buderim, Brent Mickelberg, is the Minister for Transport and Main Roads. His electorate includes Mountain Creek (where the next stop after Birtinya will be on the DSCL). Another LNP Minister (Fiona Simpson)is next door in the seat of Maroochydore, the planned terminus (for now) of the DSCL.
 
If these three don't deliver on the DSCL, their electors will be coming after them with baseball bats at the next election. And they know it.

Quote from: Stillwater on November 01, 2024, 17:44:33 PMInteresting ... Birtinya is in the electorate of Jarrod Bleijie, the new State Infrastructure Minister. The man in the neighbouring electorate of Buderim, Brent Mickelberg, is the Minister for Transport and Main Roads. His electorate includes Mountain Creek (where the next stop after Birtinya will be on the DSCL). Another LNP Minister (Fiona Simpson)is next door in the seat of Maroochydore, the planned terminus (for now) of the DSCL.
 
If these three don't deliver on the DSCL, their electors will be coming after them with baseball bats at the next election. And they know it.

Unlikely. Most of these people would still vote LNP if they poisoned the water supply and clubbed baby seals to death.

Quote from: Jonno on October 29, 2024, 12:21:04 PM

Quote from: Gazza on October 29, 2024, 12:04:13 PMI'd be inclined to call the old one the "Gympie and Nambour line"

For SEQ it is Nambour/Gympie Line or if going further North it becomes the North Coast Line.

Agree with that.  The North Coast Line covers the whole way to Cairns.  Gympie is still technically the 'Near North Coast" region, so just Nambour / Gympie North Line would do.

If interurban shuttles was to be extended to Maryborough West or to Howard (and take the existing path via Bowen Hills into Roma Street) then they may be a case for marketing the beyond Gympie North services as the North Coast Line.

Quote from: Arnz on November 01, 2024, 18:12:42 PM

Quote from: Jonno on October 29, 2024, 12:21:04 PM

Quote from: Gazza on October 29, 2024, 12:04:13 PMI'd be inclined to call the old one the "Gympie and Nambour line"

For SEQ it is Nambour/Gympie Line or if going further North it becomes the North Coast Line.

Agree with that.  The North Coast Line covers the whole way to Cairns.  Gympie is still technically the 'Near North Coast" region, so just Nambour / Gympie North Line would do.

If interurban shuttles was to be extended to Maryborough West or to Howard (and take the existing path via Bowen Hills into Roma Street) then they may be a case for marketing the beyond Gympie North services as the North Coast Line.

Concur Arnz.
Nambour/Gympie North Line and Sunshine Coast Line for the 37km spur.
One day in the distant future to be the Sunshine Coast Airport Line.

Sunshine Coast News --> Planned multibillion-dollar rail line's potential environmental impacts outlined

QuoteThe Department of Transport and Main Roads has detailed how a multibillion-dollar rail line could impact the environment, and how it has provided mitigation strategies.

TMR has referred plans for Stages 1 and 2 of Direct Rail Sunshine Coast, which totals about 27km of line, to the federal Department of Environment for assessment.

Stage 1, from Beerwah to Caloundra, has full funding of $5.5 billion. Stage 2, from Caloundra to Birtinya, is undergoing planning, design and market engagement to confirm costs and timeframes for construction. The alignment for Stage 3, from Birtinya to Maroochydore, is protected. The LNP has stated that it is committed to delivering the full line by 2032. ...