RAIL - Back On Track Forum

Did that classify as event mode? Any passenger count?

ABC reporter: There are at least 2 dozen people on the bus.

Me: 1996 Mode Share Target attained!!

https://x.com/ozbob13/status/1848135458620051757?t=ySObBdUwGKzchDKhfItVaA&s=19

https://x.com/ozbob13/status/1848159602543587414?t=g6e4xguyhulAWj_M0QWXng&s=19

I was interviewed by 7 News at UQ Lakes 

What's your overall impression of the BERTies?

Went for my ride this morning, from Eight Mile Plains to Boggo Road around 7:45am-ish.

The LighTram I caught from 8MP had a fully scrolling destination display on the front, which I found rather odd and inconvenient if multiple routes were using them. However, others I saw on the busway had a static main 169 UQ Lakes portion, with just the "via Eleanor Schonell Bridge" part scrolling, so possibly a programming error?





These interior photos were taken just on leaving 8MP - passenger numbers increased from Garden City, and there were standees from Buranda.



There were a lot of Brisbane Transport staff on the platform at 8MP, which can be seen through the rear window.



The next inbound one at Boggo Road after the one I got off of.

Quote from: ilovebrisvegas on October 21, 2024, 11:31:22 AMWhat's your overall impression of the BERTies?

Probably the best fitted out bus I have been on.  Ride reasonably well for a bus, acceleration smooth, quiet and no noticeable sway or anything.  I was warned that travel in the rear section can make some a bit queasy.  I only did relatively short rides though (PA Hospital <> UQ Lakes).  Hope to get on a longer journey in the next few weeks. 


Bus 9005 about to depart for 8MP at UQ Lakes



Onboard bus 9005



9005 departing PA Hospital Bus Station



R. Dow 21st October 2024

Seniors Go card:

Quote21 Oct 2024
 
08:39 AM   PAH Station Platform 2   08:45 AM   UQ Lakes - Stop A   $ 0.00   
    
09:30 AM   UQ Lakes - Stop A   09:39 AM   PAH Station Platform 1   $ 0.00   

I caught a bertie around 10:30 and noticed there was maybe 15 people on it all up. Some were translink staff.
My impressions are: of course it's the best bus I've been on. Much smoother. I could probably take my laptop out and do work on it if I had a seat, much like a train.
The air conditioner seemed excessively loud but it was working.

The bus was never the issue

PS wait till you hear about HESS's Bus-Train.  It's a bus with a trailer!! They really are making a mockery of the transport terminology!! Marketing BS!

The accessibility features seem to be advanced:

Quote from: JonnoPS wait till you hear about HESS's Bus-Train.  It's a bus with a trailer!! They really are making a mockery of the transport terminology!! Marketing BS!

  I saw the funny side of this comment

Quote from: SilverChased on October 21, 2024, 12:34:43 PMThe air conditioner seemed excessively loud but it was working.

I find that the aircon unit on all electric buses tend to sound particularly loud. I think it's a case of the diesel engine noise drowning out some of the AC noise.

Quote from: ozbob on October 21, 2024, 12:17:17 PMI was warned that travel in the rear section can make some a bit queasy.

I was in the back section, and didn't find it any different to any other artic, but if you had motion sickness and were looking at the vehicle bend, I can see how it might affect some people.

Quote from: Jonno on October 21, 2024, 12:52:03 PMThe bus was never the issue

PS wait till you hear about HESS's Bus-Train.  It's a bus with a trailer!! They really are making a mockery of the transport terminology!! Marketing BS!

Look Jonno can we keep this thread for updates about the project.

Repetitive posts are against forum rules.

Slightly annoyed the desto reads "South Busway" (there is no such thing and never has been) - much like the sign on Tribune Street that says "Southbank".  This is carried over from various other incorrect screens in use on the rest of the fleet.

Hopefully will get a run on this tomorrow.  I could have done a Buranda to UQ trip this morning as it turns out since our IT has comprehensively dropped its pants, meaning my getting in early was pointless.

Quote from: SilverChased on October 21, 2024, 12:34:43 PMI caught a bertie around 10:30 and noticed there was maybe 15 people on it all up. Some were translink staff.
My impressions are: of course it's the best bus I've been on. Much smoother. I could probably take my laptop out and do work on it if I had a seat, much like a train.
The air conditioner seemed excessively loud but it was working.

Do they have Wi-Fi ?

^^ Yeah, I believe they do - I will confirm next time I catch it.

Quote from: Fares_Fair on October 21, 2024, 16:13:40 PM

Quote from: SilverChased on October 21, 2024, 12:34:43 PMI caught a bertie around 10:30 and noticed there was maybe 15 people on it all up. Some were translink staff.
My impressions are: of course it's the best bus I've been on. Much smoother. I could probably take my laptop out and do work on it if I had a seat, much like a train.
The air conditioner seemed excessively loud but it was working.

Do they have Wi-Fi ?

It wasn't working today due to some tech fault apparently.

Quote from: Gazza on October 21, 2024, 15:03:47 PM

Quote from: Jonno on October 21, 2024, 12:52:03 PMThe bus was never the issue

PS wait till you hear about HESS's Bus-Train.  It's a bus with a trailer!! They really are making a mockery of the transport terminology!! Marketing BS!

Look Jonno can we keep this thread for updates about the project.

Repetitive posts are against forum rules.

So is wasting tax payers money but hey that seems perfectly fine too.

I have a friend who drives for BCC. He told me that in peak today Buranda was a bit of a clusterfuk. With all the roadworks, and without the lengthened platforms, it caused quite a queue with the bi-artics added in the mix  A problem which will be relieved once the works are completed and the network is reorganised but a bit of a pain point in the short term apparently

My thoughts on the "metro" that isn't a metro
The good:
The electric nature of it.  Quiet, smooth but quick acceleration.  Not jerky. 
Build quality of the bus is excellent.  The bus doesn't shake and vibrate around like every other brisbane bus.
Air conditioning was good.  The doors are quick to open and close.  A small bag rack at the back section. 
Windows are big and clear.

The stop buttons.  tactile, good size, and location and braille.

The Okay: 
The destination screens themselves are really good, but the colour screen ones are badly placed due to the seating arrangements.  They could be better placed.  The information on them is good and clear (except stop requested). Audio announcements were good but not life changing for me.

Drivers having their own cab.  It's good for driver protection, but bad for customer/passenger interaction.  Just one of those few things where a small minority have ruined it for the majority. 

The Bad:
Next stop requested.  I have above-average vision and I could barely see it on the screens, it took me a while to even figure out where it was.  It needs something more traditional to accompany the tiny strip on the screen that says next stop requested.

The Bi-artic nature of the bus really emphasizes any imperfection in the road it travels over.  There WILL be injuries from people falling over when it's over going certain sections of the busway at higher speeds.  I banged my head against the window and I was sitting in a seat with no one next to me. 

The seats.  How on earth can you design a bus with somehow having around half of all the seats face backwards.  It's mind boggling how many seats were rear facing.  The seats themselves were okay but I think it wouldn't be great having to sit side by side with anyone who isn't a child or a small asian woman.  But it's a bus, you can't do much about the total width.

It's not just a metro problem, but an issue I have with australia in general, but excessive signage inside the bus.  the BCC have plastered their logo at every possible point, but i think there is signage overload inside. 


Overall opinion.  Most of what this achieved could have been done at a fraction of the cost with timetable reform and regular electric articulated buses.  I see this as a major transport planning failure, rather than success. 

7 News piece featuring Ozbob

"We want to ensure that buses are really competitive with rail" - Cr Ryan Murphy, Transport Chair.

Quote from: verbatim9 on October 21, 2024, 18:48:14 PMIt wasn't working today due to some tech fault apparently.

Yeah, no Wi-Fi on the one I caught this afternoon (Buranda to 8MP). I tried out the first section this time around, and at night it becomes very blue! I liked it, but it may not be to everyone's tastes.

Quote from: tazzer9 on October 21, 2024, 19:50:39 PMNext stop requested.  I have above-average vision and I could barely see it on the screens, it took me a while to even figure out where it was.  It needs something more traditional to accompany the tiny strip on the screen that says next stop requested.

I will agree, the next stop requested icon on the screen is fairly poor. You do still get the same loud (and somewhat obnoxious) buzzer sound used on other BCC buses when someone hits the button, but a larger visual indicator would be appreciated. Maybe changing the blue header bar to red and having the Route and destination details alternate with "Stop Requested" text.

As seen in the upper and mid left of this photo, they do have an evacuation lighting system above the doors - if the light is illuminated, prepare to evacuate vehicle, if the light is flashing, evacuate vehicle.



Sitting in one of the priority seats, I particularly noticed the numerous braille panels (these could be exactly the same as in other BCC buses and I've just never paid attention to them before), as well as the intercom (with camera it appears) for disabled passengers to communicate with the driver.





One other thing that I did notice (after seeing it mentioned in a Facebook comment) that forgot to properly photograph (but found it just appears in one of my earlier photos), were the Exit Signs by the doors being displayed as white text on red, rather than the standard white on green as used on emergency exit signs in buildings. I don't know whether these exit signs have to comply with the same standards as in buildings, but it was an interesting observation.

Quote from: ozbob on October 21, 2024, 10:37:30 AMI was interviewed by 7 News at UQ Lakes 

Brisbane Metro line opens between Eight Mile Plains and UQ | 7NEWS



I was interviewed for around 4 minutes or so, cut to around 4 seconds ... 

As #Metro has pointed out above this quote concerns,

"We want to ensure that buses are really competitive with rail"

- Cr Ryan Murphy, BCC Transport Chair. 

I thought they had moved on from these silly games. Apparently not!

It might have been a bit of exuberance on the day, but certainly is a poor choice of words.

Competing with rail rather than working with it. Explains everything that is wrong with the buses right now.
That's why it feels forced to catch a bus end to end, with routes running alongside rail instead of feeding in to rail.

To be fair, the rail service on offer isn't great at many stations, which makes it harder to connect buses to it. People don't like to interchange at low-frequency stations because a dropped connection can easily result in a 30-minute wait or costs to get an Uber/Taxi.

There also seems to be not good co-ordination due to organisational misalignment between State and Local levels of government. I believe building a bus-train interchange at Indooroopilly has been discussed for ~ 40 years. One imagines that if this were Perth, it would have been built already because there is no need to negotiate with an LGA.

Rail service has improved since 2014, but it is far short of what is on offer in Perth. Perth has excellent bus-train connections, and every station (except Thornlie on Sunday) has 15 minute train services all day.

Brisbane City Council's investment in its bus networks is, in part, a response to this poor rail service frequency. The different weekend train timetables are also an obstacle and a relic from the past.

Quote from: ozbob on October 21, 2024, 23:59:09 PM

Quote from: ozbob on October 21, 2024, 10:37:30 AMI was interviewed by 7 News at UQ Lakes 

Brisbane Metro line opens between Eight Mile Plains and UQ | 7NEWS



I was interviewed for around 4 minutes or so, cut to around 4 seconds ... 

As #Metro has pointed out above this quote concerns,

"We want to ensure that buses are really competitive with rail"

- Cr Ryan Murphy, BCC Transport Chair. 

I thought they had moved on from these silly games. Apparently not!

It might have been a bit of exuberance on the day, but certainly is a poor choice of words.

This is utterly unacceptable and a key reason that we are at 90% of trip by motor vehicle. 

Even if it meant they want to be like rail in terms of service quality and moving people....then that is equally blinkered.

Quote from: SilverChased on October 22, 2024, 01:55:43 AMCompeting with rail rather than working with it. Explains everything that is wrong with the buses right now.
That's why it feels forced to catch a bus end to end, with routes running alongside rail instead of feeding in to rail.

He should have said complimenting.

I took it as saying they want buses to be perceived to be as good as rail.

By and large Brisbane metro isn't really competing with rail except say if you were going between like Southbank and Roma St.

Quote from: #Metro on October 22, 2024, 07:03:32 AMTo be fair, the rail service on offer isn't great at many stations, which makes it harder to connect buses to it. People don't like to interchange at low-frequency stations because a dropped connection can easily result in a 30-minute wait or costs to get an Uber/Taxi.

There also seems to be not good co-ordination due to organisational misalignment between State and Local levels of government. I believe building a bus-train interchange at Indooroopilly has been discussed for ~ 40 years. One imagines that if this were Perth, it would have been built already because there is no need to negotiate with an LGA.

Rail service has improved since 2014, but it is far short of what is on offer in Perth. Perth has excellent bus-train connections, and every station (except Thornlie on Sunday) has 15 minute train services all day.

Brisbane City Council's investment in its bus networks is, in part, a response to this poor rail service frequency. The different weekend train timetables are also an obstacle and a relic from the past.

Rail frequency was never and will never be increased the moment crr was floated and until after its completion for various reasons. This would have been regardless of who was in power. So you can reference as many places as you want but that's not going to change anything.

And BCC investing in its bus network was for its own political benefit. In fact it wasn't just bcc that invested in it. The state actually paid for a lot of its buses. Outside of Metro BCC hasn't had any new buses come online for a number of years now. It was not due to heavy rail. Outside a few key areas there has not been any investment in the bus network for over 15 years. Remember in 2010 the 335 became the P339 rocket in peak hour. That meant for the entire peak hour direction the 335 bypassed Chermside interchange by travelling along Webster road. The 330/340 were buzzed as an over reaction from the state when opening day the northern busway would have only a few services using it.

Quote from: Gazza on October 22, 2024, 10:53:24 AMI took it as saying they want buses to be perceived to be as good as rail.

By and large Brisbane metro isn't really competing with rail except say if you were going between like Southbank and Roma St.

I still don't get the weird not willing to properly work together scenario and why it happens (as in BCC and the government/Translink).

Quote from: ilovebrisvegas on October 22, 2024, 16:17:26 PM

Quote from: Gazza on October 22, 2024, 10:53:24 AMI took it as saying they want buses to be perceived to be as good as rail.

By and large Brisbane metro isn't really competing with rail except say if you were going between like Southbank and Roma St.

I still don't get the weird not willing to properly work together scenario and why it happens (as in BCC and the government/Translink).

Political. Always has been. To the point where the translink contract doesn't actually fund what is run by bcc. Rather than change the bus network to remove duplication and to make it more efficient they keep the status quo and choose to fund the extra amount themselves. Even though it's 30 million plus per year last time I heard they turn that around by saying how much extra they are spending on buses for Brisbane residents. 

Quote from: ilovebrisvegasI still don't get the weird not willing to properly work together scenario and why it happens (as in BCC and the government/Translink).

If you have responsibilities split across 3 agencies, they cannot always align all the time. Especially when they are at different levels of government (state and local) and you have a mismatch of different political parties. This is not dependent on who is in office, it is about the organisational/institutional level interaction and governance design facilitating the creation of conflict opportunities.

The other thing is priorities and funding. It is more than just politics. Its also budgets. From what we know with the 1980s experience with the SEQ Metropolitan Transit Authority (MTA) (a Translink predecessor) the state agency often wanted to make certain choices that would impact very negatively on BCC's funding or budgets.

The way forward is one agency formed from the direct merger of BCC TfB, QR and Translink. At least BCC has shown willingness to run Brisbane metro across LGA boundaries, for example into Logan or Redlands. Running BCC buses across council boundaries has been a conflict point in the past.

Again politics. BCC had other reasons for running into other areas and that relates to funding/additional payments from translink/state government.

Quote from: #Metro on October 22, 2024, 07:03:32 AMBrisbane City Council's investment in its bus networks is, in part, a response to this poor rail service frequency. The different weekend train timetables are also an obstacle and a relic from the past.

But the different bus timetables aren't? Other than Buz/Gliders, Sunday service on bus routes in Brisbane generally ranges from poor to appalling. As an example, the 230 runs every 45 minutes on Saturdays (already bad) but every 90 minutes on Sundays. It also starts roughly 2 hours later, and finishes 2 hours earlier on Sundays.

As for the train timetables being a "relic from the past" the reality is that demand starts later on Sundays, and finishes earlier. As an example, major supermarkets open from 7 am - 9 pm Saturdays, but 9 am - 6 pm Sundays. Go into the Valley at 11 pm on a Saturday night, then try the same thing on Sunday night. It'll be (comparatively) dead.

I've frequently taken the first train of the morning from Loganlea to the Gold Coast on Sundays. There's often half a dozen people on it. I don't really see the need for an earlier one.

Quote from: AchuiruelBut the different bus timetables aren't? Other than Buz/Gliders, Sunday service on bus routes in Brisbane generally ranges from poor to appalling. As an example, the 230 runs every 45 minutes on Saturdays (already bad) but every 90 minutes on Sundays. It also starts roughly 2 hours later, and finishes 2 hours earlier on Sundays.

Agree this is poor service, and even more so given that the density in the past was enough to support a tram route to Bulimba. RBOT has been mentioning Bulimba etc for years.

That said though, I think the next Brisbane Metro extensions will be Chermside, Carindale and Indooroopilly. Indooroopilly or just beyond would be VERY interesting as it would entail a major rearrangement of western suburb routes.

As an aside BERT has been touted as a preferred name by Steve Austin on ABC radio and train YouTuber Rory Ding.

With Ryan Murphy also acknowledging this week that the name is an issue we could be seeing the back of an embarrassing name.

 I suspect that state and federal gov have expressed reservations about the name during background discussions about funding expansion.

Just copy Sydney and call them Metro Buses.

  

Quote from: #Metro on October 22, 2024, 21:52:04 PM

Quote from: AchuiruelBut the different bus timetables aren't? Other than Buz/Gliders, Sunday service on bus routes in Brisbane generally ranges from poor to appalling. As an example, the 230 runs every 45 minutes on Saturdays (already bad) but every 90 minutes on Sundays. It also starts roughly 2 hours later, and finishes 2 hours earlier on Sundays.

Agree this is poor service, and even more so given that the density in the past was enough to support a tram route to Bulimba. RBOT has been mentioning Bulimba etc for years.

That said though, I think the next Brisbane Metro extensions will be Chermside, Carindale and Indooroopilly. Indooroopilly or just beyond would be VERY interesting as it would entail a major rearrangement of western suburb routes.

An extension towards Indooroopilly would indeed be *very* interesting.

In that vein, I feel like 'closing the loop' from UQ lakes to ~Roma street via Toowoong should also be a long term goal. Though this would obviously need the blessing of UQ.

As for the northern extension to Chermside, I'm still waiting to see if these new buses can operate on the existing northern busway past RBWH station. Would it require building parts of the cancelled northern busway extension?
And then beyond Kedron Brook station, could it simply run on the new transitway (with it's hours extended)?

(And I can't miss another opportunity to mention The Prince Charles Hospital!)

There isn't enough desk left from the amount of  at the Councillor's comment. 

Also, if the bendy bus does get extended to Indro, that just solidifies the ridiculousness of transport in Brisbane. Absolutely ZERO reason it should be extended to Indro when there is a perfectly good railway, running at good frequencies all day every day, running the same route.

Quote from: Habitant on October 23, 2024, 15:42:51 PM

Quote from: #Metro on October 22, 2024, 21:52:04 PM

Quote from: AchuiruelBut the different bus timetables aren't? Other than Buz/Gliders, Sunday service on bus routes in Brisbane generally ranges from poor to appalling. As an example, the 230 runs every 45 minutes on Saturdays (already bad) but every 90 minutes on Sundays. It also starts roughly 2 hours later, and finishes 2 hours earlier on Sundays.

Agree this is poor service, and even more so given that the density in the past was enough to support a tram route to Bulimba. RBOT has been mentioning Bulimba etc for years.

That said though, I think the next Brisbane Metro extensions will be Chermside, Carindale and Indooroopilly. Indooroopilly or just beyond would be VERY interesting as it would entail a major rearrangement of western suburb routes.

An extension towards Indooroopilly would indeed be *very* interesting.

In that vein, I feel like 'closing the loop' from UQ lakes to ~Roma street via Toowoong should also be a long term goal. Though this would obviously need the blessing of UQ.

As for the northern extension to Chermside, I'm still waiting to see if these new buses can operate on the existing northern busway past RBWH station. Would it require building parts of the cancelled northern busway extension?
And then beyond Kedron Brook station, could it simply run on the new transitway (with it's hours extended)?

(And I can't miss another opportunity to mention The Prince Charles Hospital!)

There's nothing stopping the bi artics running on roads with regular traffic.

The point of the "metro" branding is to distinguish higher order transit from a regular bus ie Class A ROW. Running on roads defeats that purpose

Id like to see the full busway plans ala 2012 built out to Chermside via PCH. The northern Transitway as it stands is a joke.

See : https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=14786.msg261505#msg261505

Quote from: JimmyP on October 23, 2024, 16:14:07 PMThere isn't enough desk left from the amount of  at the Councillor's comment. 

Also, if the bendy bus does get extended to Indro, that just solidifies the ridiculousness of transport in Brisbane. Absolutely ZERO reason it should be extended to Indro when there is a perfectly good railway, running at good frequencies all day every day, running the same route.

It's not running the same route though. If the busway linked to Indro it would create a proper east west link, and would mean students from Ipswich / Western suburbs could get to UQ and other destinations along the SE Busway (ie Griffith etc) without having to go through the city.

That being said, I don't see how they could possibly build a a Class A ROW busway through UQ to Indro. It would involve a ridiculously large tunnel through some pretty tough terrain. Needlessly expensive for a bus.

For an East West link to Toowong / Indro / UQ, I'd rather see the Brisbane Subway built, especially considering how much tunneling would be involved.