RAIL - Back On Track Forum

Quote from: ozbob on August 04, 2024, 14:49:56 PMI expect a busy day media wise tomorrow (5th August).

Already booked for an interview 4BC ~ 8:10am,  ABC Radio Brisbane ~ 4pm.

FF is going to do the ABC Radio Interview after 4pm.  I am a bit worn out.

Here is the 4BC interview this morning.

4BC Breakfast with Laurel, Gary and Mark on 4BC Breakfast interview with Robert Dow RBoT
on Fifty Cent Fares

here > https://backontrack.org/docs/4bc/4bc_breakfast_rd_5aug24.mp3 MP3 5 MB

4BC web site > https://www.4bc.com.au/plenty-of-people-travelling-first-day-of-50-cent-fares/

Facebook ...

ABC Radio Brisbane Drive 5th August 2024 host Rebecca Levingston with Jeff Addison RBoT.

Short discussion on the Fifty Cent Fares

here > https://backontrack.org/docs/abcbris/abcbris_rl_ja_5aug24.mp3 MP3 2.2MB

Quote from: HappyTrainGuy on August 05, 2024, 07:31:45 AMEven outer cbd has access issues if you want to use a bus feeder. Take Albion-Eagle Junction. Albion has no true feeder. It has the 306/322 but the timetabling is very inconsistent (check peak hour and you have anything from a 1 minute wait between services right up to 62 minute gaps). The 320 bypasses Albion inbound. West of the station there's nothing. Easier to drive. Wooloowin is the same. Hilly elevation with no feeders on either side. Easier to drive. Eagle junction is a bit better but in some instances some prefer to drive there instead of catching a local train ie Doomben Line. Go further north and you have other problems such as network zone. Using a bus + train in Northgate-Toombul is a 2 zone trip. Catching the train only is a 1 zone trip. No feeders in Nundah so easier to drive. Since you are driving and zone 1 goes to Northgate you can then choose to drive further and get home quicker because you are travelling anti peak direction. And you can repeat the process going north. Its just a sh%t show and shows how much we need a network and station access review. By station access I mean the individual access to each platform ie wooloowin P1 and P4. 50 cent fares might reduce some issues but can also contribute to more issues as peoples modes change.

Which is why I said 'in a properly connected network (something we sorely need)'.
People should be able to walk/cycle etc to their nearest station or bus stop that will then go to the nearest station (among other POIs).

Spoke to a friend last night who drives for TFB. He did the morning 140/150 routes, plus some others later in the day. He said patronage was a little higher than usual on the early morning runs. He also said he saw unusually high numbers of people waiting at EMP through the later morning, describing it as if a 111 hadn't shown up

For Day 2 we got to Loganholme 5 odd minutes earlier than yesterday, only to find the carpark completely full by then, so definitely a sign of increased usage.

There were more people on the platform, and a longer line for the express buses, but that could have easily been more of a result of missed buses. Again, there was no avalanche of people at Loganholme at least.

Of interest, this morning I was on one of the new State Government buses on loan to Clarks. Rather nice, with their timber look vinyl floor. It still had 'new bus smell' as well.



The drivers are very well protected in these ones.

https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/brisbane-news-live-premier-to-cap-petrol-price-hikes-seq-s-micro-business-hotspot-20240805-p5jzop.html

QuoteBrisbane needs new bus routes, more walkable streets: Rail group

Already-scarce parking at train stations is expected to get tighter as the 50¢ public transport scheme gains traction.

According to one campaigner, the solution is new bus routes and more walkable streets.

"It'll probably get worse," Robert Dow, spokesperson for transport lobby group Rail Back on Track, told Brisbane Times yesterday.

"You can't keep extending parking ... It's too expensive. It's much better to extend bus routes to and from stations.

"Some of these parking spots cost $100,000 a car ... You can't keep turning suburbs into car parks.

"We need to support active transport more than we do. That's walking to the station, cycling and scooters."

Readers reported commutes were largely unaffected on the first day of 50¢ fares. Congestion is expected to grow throughout the week.

^ that looks to be the same driver protection setup being installed in the TFB busses.

Quote from: RowBro on August 06, 2024, 09:55:28 AM^ that looks to be the same driver protection setup being installed in the TFB busses.

The loaner bus was a Volgren as well, so probably is exactly the same.

https://x.com/9NewsQueensland/status/1820407046501515445

Government Statement

https://statements.qld.gov.au/statements/101029

7th August 2024

State of the State Address 2024

.... Today, I want to start with transport.

It's timely because we started 50 cent fares yesterday - did I mention that's something I've wanted to do since I was a teenager?

Today I want to tell you more about my plan for an affordable, efficient, accessible, sustainable and connected transport system for Queensland.

Transport

Great transport has the power to create communities, and opportunity, and productivity, and connection.

It drives economic growth and better environmental outcomes.

It is a powerful lever in creating the kind of Queensland I want us to be.

And 50 cent fares are just the start.

Yesterday, Queenslanders saved a about $1 million on the first day of 50 cent fares.

That's $1 million back in Queenslanders pockets today.

641,900 people used public transport yesterday across South East Queensland alone.

And patronage was up to 94 per cent on pre-COVID levels.

Sure, it's getting more people to use public transport.

Sure, it's freeing up our congested roads and sure, it's good for the environment and for people.

But what I'm really doing in this six-month trial is seeing...

... if every Queenslander who wanted to catch public transport could...

...where would the pinch points be? Where would we need extra services and more park 'n' rides? How can we make this network better?

Benefits of public transport

Everything we can do to make public transport a great option is a great investment.

We're investing billions of dollars to build, modernise and update our networks to deliver affordable, accessible, efficient and sustainable transport for all Queenslanders.

Why wouldn't we do everything we can to get people using it?

This investment supports our growing population now.

And it's an investment in the future Queensland which is being shaped by the mega projects which will be the legacy of the Brisbane 2023 Olympic and Paralympic Games.

We want to see Queenslanders spending less time in transit, and more time at their destination.

Because a better public transport system creates real productivity gains.

Productivity

When people spend less time commuting, they can be more productive as individuals, because they have more time for work, leisure activities, and rest.

The studies back this up.

Some studies show a GDP return of 1 to 5 for every dollar invested in public transport – a US study showed for every $1 billion invested there was a $5 billion return in GDP. ...

So, I've been thinking.

The 50c fare policy may not be an entirely bad policy response at the present time, and here's why.

Im not sure how anyone else feels, but our cities are in a bit of a massive hole at the moment, and the feds just keep pumping people in.
Note, im not actually commenting on the pros/cons of population growth, but clearly it exists and the states have to deal with the results.

SO much needs to be built (road or rail!) , and it's insane the amount of catching up that we need to do. This isn't forthcoming sadly.

Along with service improvements, there is absolutely a lot of capacity that exists TODAY that could at least be making a difference.
Every half empty train represents lanes and lanes of capacity that exists virtually but is not used.

So for the cost of around $300m per year (and really, what does $300m get you these days? A couple of overpasses?) we have been able to unlock a bit of underutilized capacity.

Make no mistake, this policy is still a bit of a crisis response to decades of bad transport and planning policy, but at the very least I hope it is a real world demonstration of the power of PT,

Given the enormous media coverage and promotion that went into the measure in its lead up, I don't expect much further increase after the first week ends.

Really?

That's like saying a large amount of media coverage goes into the opening of a new train line, so therefore you cant expect much patronage uptick after the end of the first week of operations.

Quote from: Gazza on August 09, 2024, 08:54:57 AMSo, I've been thinking.

The 50c fare policy may not be an entirely bad policy response at the present time, and here's why.

Im not sure how anyone else feels, but our cities are in a bit of a massive hole at the moment, and the feds just keep pumping people in.
Note, im not actually commenting on the pros/cons of population growth, but clearly it exists and the states have to deal with the results.

SO much needs to be built (road or rail!) , and it's insane the amount of catching up that we need to do. This isn't forthcoming sadly.

Along with service improvements, there is absolutely a lot of capacity that exists TODAY that could at least be making a difference.
Every half empty train represents lanes and lanes of capacity that exists virtually but is not used.

So for the cost of around $300m per year (and really, what does $300m get you these days? A couple of overpasses?) we have been able to unlock a bit of underutilized capacity.

Make no mistake, this policy is still a bit of a crisis response to decades of bad transport and planning policy, but at the very least I hope it is a real world demonstration of the power of PT,

hear hear

We don't need to agree on these points because the result will be observable.

If the numbers stay around 10% generally during the trial period, then that's what it will be.

I've already pointed out higher patronage is possible though the frequency route using the same money.

BCC BUZ data on frequency boosts have 100% increases as typical. That's very different from 10%.

Buz data is flawed.

Frequency does not guarantee massive patronage boosts. 340 buz saw massive patronage boosts but not where you expect it. Chermside-City is where it got its patronage. Not Chermside-Carseldine. We could buz the 314 but it's still going to be an air parcel. We could buz the cruise terminal but it will still be an air parcel outside of a small window when a boat happens to be there. The 330 and 340 are both air parcels at times. You can easily justify a service reduction on those routes at particular times. At night you can see more people on a 335/340 inbound than a 330. You need a network that can support it. And waiting for brt or a metro bus also isn't a solution.

Right now there is a bunch of capacity in the network. Especially the rail network where particular corridors can carry the peak capacity of a couple buz routes in a couple services. You can play the blame game. You can play the frequency game. Fact is there is capacity there and it's not currently being utilised. You can be crushed into a train at Northgate and the train 2 minutes before and after has seats free everywhere. We see it on the Ipswich line where Springfield trains arrive at Darra nearly empty while Ipswich express services arrive filled to the brim. The Ipswich service departs nearly empty while the Springfield train takes on a ton of transferring passengers and departs with some carriages at standing load only.

Wouldn't that 100% increase be over a localised area (ie. that serviced by the route having its frequency boosted)?

We're seeing an average 10% increase across the entire network, 57,000 additional trips year on year. I don't consider that an apple and apples comparison.

I found out from some relatives in Melbourne that excerpts from my interview on Monday morning on 4BC (5th August) made the 9am News on 3AW Melbourne as the lead item on the 5th August 2024.   

Quote from: ozbob on August 05, 2024, 13:09:31 PM

Quote from: ozbob on August 04, 2024, 14:49:56 PMI expect a busy day media wise tomorrow (5th August).

Already booked for an interview 4BC ~ 8:10am,  ABC Radio Brisbane ~ 4pm.

FF is going to do the ABC Radio Interview after 4pm.  I am a bit worn out.

Here is the 4BC interview this morning.

4BC Breakfast with Laurel, Gary and Mark on 4BC Breakfast interview with Robert Dow RBoT
on Fifty Cent Fares

here > https://backontrack.org/docs/4bc/4bc_breakfast_rd_5aug24.mp3 MP3 5 MB

4BC web site > https://www.4bc.com.au/plenty-of-people-travelling-first-day-of-50-cent-fares/

Quote from: Nathandavid88Wouldn't that 100% increase be over a localised area (ie. that serviced by the route having its frequency boosted)?

We're seeing an average 10% increase across the entire network, 57,000 additional trips year on year. I don't consider that an apple and apples comparison.

True, but the key point is that over a year this measure will spend $300 million to purchase 16 million passenger trips.

It would not cost anywhere near that to put on 16 new BUZ routes and get 1 million new passengers in each. This would also give 16 million new trips.

And new BUZ routes are actually useful, because they open up the zone of accessibility and mobility in a way that a fare discount does not.

Notes
160 million p.a. PT trips across SEQ x 10% = 16 million trips per year.

Quote from: ozbob on August 09, 2024, 11:39:00 AMI found out from some relatives in Melbourne that excerpts from my interview on Monday morning on 4BC (5th August) made the 9am News on 3AW Melbourne as the lead item on the 5th August 2024.   

Quote from: ozbob on August 05, 2024, 13:09:31 PM

Quote from: ozbob on August 04, 2024, 14:49:56 PMI expect a busy day media wise tomorrow (5th August).

Already booked for an interview 4BC ~ 8:10am,  ABC Radio Brisbane ~ 4pm.

FF is going to do the ABC Radio Interview after 4pm.  I am a bit worn out.

Here is the 4BC interview this morning.

4BC Breakfast with Laurel, Gary and Mark on 4BC Breakfast interview with Robert Dow RBoT
on Fifty Cent Fares

here > https://backontrack.org/docs/4bc/4bc_breakfast_rd_5aug24.mp3 MP3 5 MB

4BC web site > https://www.4bc.com.au/plenty-of-people-travelling-first-day-of-50-cent-fares/

I had noticed 50c fares articles popping up on national news sites like news.com.au (for example - not that I really consider that one "News"), so there must be some interstate interest.

A random observation from Loganholme Station this morning, not only was the commuter park n ride full (no surprises there), but there were a LOT of cars parked in the adjacent section of the Hyperdome carpark (officially designated as overflow carparking as per the below).

This was considerably more than I had seen on any day last week. Given today is the day between the Logan and Brisbane Ekka Holidays, I would have thought it would have been a quieter morning.

    

https://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/qld-politics/george-street-beat-qld-politics-news-and-gossip/news-story/c6a2c1a1e36f1875f1e7cd01137ffa6d

QuoteShane Doherty was once among Queensland's most powerful people thanks to his loyal service to premier Annastacia Palaszczuk as her deputy chief of staff.

Having exited the top office when Premier Steven Miles moved in, Mr Doherty isn't so keen to promote government policy.

"F*** yer 50 cent fares. They're not much f***en good to yer if the f***en bus doesn't f*cken stop," he wrote on Facebook.

"It can all go get f***ed."

He's not wrong

I'd be more interested to learn whether the Coochie ferry will be part of the normal fare structure for SEQ going forward (including with smart ticketing gear installed).  It's a glaring omission - much more so than the Stradbroke ferries.

Quote from: SurfRail on August 30, 2024, 09:31:25 AMrry will be part of the normal fare structure for SEQ going forward (including with smart ticketing gear installed).  It's a glaring omission - much more so than the Stradbroke ferries.

The post says that it will be brought into the Translink tap and go network if they win the election.

Couriermail --> Brisbane sporting clubs seek transport levy relief amid 50c fares $

QuoteQueensland's professional sporting clubs are lobbying the state government to remove a $3 public transport levy while commuters benefit from the 50c fare trial.

A letter co-signed by the Broncos, Lions, Titans, Reds, Cowboys and Gold Coast FC in June - seen by The Courier-Mail - asked Premier Steven Miles for a "price adjustment to be reflected in the transport levy that we pay during the time period of the 50-cent flat fare".

"Our levy is considerably higher than the 50-cent flat fare that will apply from August," it notes.

"We write to ask for this price adjustment to be reflected in the transport levy that we pay during the time period of the 50-cent flat fare." ...

https://x.com/ozbob13/status/1831692882174189593

But you don't pay 50 cents when you get on the Suncorp shuttle bus at Chermside....

Professional sporting clubs & codes have plenty of money. Let them contribute to the load on the network they create!

Wow, talking about buying an election.

QPremier: 50 cent transport fares here to stay if Labor wins state election
Premier Steven Miles has revealed 50 cent fares for public transport will remain in place permanently if Labor remains in office after the election next month. - Couriermail

Quote from: verbatim9 on September 14, 2024, 19:01:03 PMWow, talking about buying an election.

I never get this. What's a government meant to do in an election campaign? Promise nothing because any promise is just "buying the election"?!

Removing cost as a barrier to using public transport is a decent policy - as long as it doesn't come at the cost of service improvements.

Quote from: verbatim9 on September 14, 2024, 19:01:03 PMWow, talking about buying an election.

QPremier: 50 cent transport fares here to stay if Labor wins state election
Premier Steven Miles has revealed 50 cent fares for public transport will remain in place permanently if Labor remains in office after the election next month. - Couriermail

As opposed to the LNP's fare policy, which is what, exactly?

At least Labor have one.

Agree with Verbatim9. Services first, not gimmicks. This policy is something the Rhonda Stewart character from ABC Utopia would come up with.

At $300 million per year, this money is far better spent on service and frequency upgrades to rail and bus.

At $5m/BUZ p.a. This money could pay for 60 BUZ High Frequency bus routes saturating BCC, Logan, Ipswich and MBRC LGAs with frequent bus service.

Services First!

Quote from: verbatim9 on September 14, 2024, 19:01:03 PMWow, talking about buying an election.

QPremier: 50 cent transport fares here to stay if Labor wins state election
Premier Steven Miles has revealed 50 cent fares for public transport will remain in place permanently if Labor remains in office after the election next month. - Couriermail

What did you expect?

Cheaper fares are good policy but the nature and the timing of this 50c thing was always about the election. It's safe to say it's been in Labor's "election promise" chest all along, but really it's about leaving a nice little political grenade for the LNP if (when) they get in.

It's the precedent it sets that's scary IMO - PT fares haven't usually been considered an election plaything but once that seal is broken get ready for all kinds of rubbish a la Victoria (where the Libs started it instead)

It's about saving seats on the Gold Coast, Bribie, Caloundra and Redcliffe as well. It's very political and they will have to find the money from elsewhere to pay for other things now, such as modernising the PT fleets, improving infrastructure and frequency.

They also said it was about cost of living relief as well. Yet, it isn't as inflation will be behind us from mid next year.

It's bad policy as now people living within Brisbane will be subsiding those who live out further even more.

Consider 60 new high frequency BUZ routes bringing 0.5 to 1 million new passengers each per year.

This would give 30-60 million new trips per year, more than the ~ 24 million trips this fare cut is likely to bring in.

Plus, you would be able to get to more places as well, as it would be a genuine increase in mobility.

I feel it could also encourage more urban sprawl as well. It's actually counter productive and doesn't make overall economic sense.

Plus everyone knows that providing PT to outer areas costs more than inner areas. This has always been the argument  from the Labor Government of not providing more services to those areas.

Quote from: #Metro on September 14, 2024, 20:16:02 PMConsider 60 new high frequency BUZ routes bringing 0.5 to 1 million new passengers each per year.

This would give 30-60 million new trips per year, more than the ~ 24 million trips this fare cut is likely to bring in.

Plus, you would be able to get to more places as well, as it would be a genuine increase in mobility.

Unfortunately, something like this won't happen under this fare policy.