RAIL - Back On Track Forum

https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/size-does-not-matter-ioc-says-stadium-decisions-a-matter-for-qld-20240321-p5fe6f.html

Quote... Transport Minister Bart Mellish said the government would develop a "comprehensive transport plan" for QSAC, including legacy opportunities to link the facility with nearby Griffith University, the QEII hospital and the CBD.

"My initial discussions with the department are that a solution will likely involve enhanced bus routes and upgraded linkages to the rail network. This may include a bus layover facility at the venue and extensive traffic management plan for the duration of the Games," he said.

"Preliminary advice is that a full Metro station is [probably not] needed, but I'm happy to work constructively with the council and Games partners ... to further explore their options, including how Metro could support the venue." ...

 

It's the Commonwealth Games all over again...but worse!!!

Quote from: ozbob on March 21, 2024, 13:10:25 PMhttps://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/size-does-not-matter-ioc-says-stadium-decisions-a-matter-for-qld-20240321-p5fe6f.html

Quote... Transport Minister Bart Mellish said the government would develop a "comprehensive transport plan" for QSAC, including legacy opportunities to link the facility with nearby Griffith University, the QEII hospital and the CBD.

"My initial discussions with the department are that a solution will likely involve enhanced bus routes and upgraded linkages to the rail network. This may include a bus layover facility at the venue and extensive traffic management plan for the duration of the Games," he said.

"Preliminary advice is that a full Metro station is [probably not] needed, but I'm happy to work constructively with the council and Games partners ... to further explore their options, including how Metro could support the venue." ...

 

This outcome SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCKS.

It's not about what's probably needed, Mr Mellish. The whole reason the general public got on board with the Olympic pitch was the promise of it being leverage to build legacy transport infrastructure. Slowly this has been eroded further and further away.

The DSCRL being cut off at Caloundra, and now a fleet of shuttle buses serving a concrete slab at QSAC is the final nail in the coffin for me.

Finance.

Important because No money = No project.

If the QLD gov won't spend for the Olympics, they probably won't spend for additional GC rail tunnels, buying out BNE Airtrain, flagstone rail extension, ripley rail extension, brisbane subway, Toowoomba fast rail etc.

Changing strategy to move from singular mega projects to clusters of mini and midi projects is worth looking at.

    

Queensland Museum https://collections.qm.qld.gov.au/objects/361349/queensland-railways-printed-time-table-xii-commonwealth-games-australia-1982

Quote from: Jonno on March 21, 2024, 13:26:04 PMIt's the Commonwealth Games all over again...but worse!!!

 

Full details Queensland Parliament Hansard >

https://documents.parliament.qld.gov.au/events/han/2024/2024_03_21_DAILY.pdf

Quote from: ozbob on March 21, 2024, 12:54:36 PMSummary for Queensland Parliament QT today.  Hansard up to QT is available after 2pm

1. 'No metro' likely for QSAC stadium.

2. Transport to QSAC worked 27 years ago, trust me: Mellish.

2. Transport Minister Bart Mellish has rejected a claim from the Opposition the delay to commit to an Olympic infrastructure plan has meant the Sunshine Coast rail will not extend to Maroochydore.

https://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/qld-politics/ioc-boss-thomas-bach-responds-to-queenslands-cutprice-olympic-games/news-story/75fdd96053b253d07e3d8b0420b91152

Quote... Olympics powerbroker John Coates and venue infrastructure reviewer Graham Quirk have been requested to appear before a Senate Inquiry into Brisbane's Olympic Games "circus".

The Inquiry into Australia's Preparedness to host the Commonwealth, Olympic and Paralympic Games will hold a hearing in Brisbane on April 17 following the release of the Quirk Report.

It comes as the International Olympic Committee says it is up to the people of Brisbane to determine if a new stadium is built or not for the 2032 Games – but the experience for athletes must be the priority. ...

https://x.com/InQldMedia/status/1770666245895200891?s=20

Meanwhile in Sydney

https://x.com/sydney_stations/status/1761260268242567637?s=46&t=EDszjTErsxTIqAna7yuP-w

Quote from: #Metro on March 21, 2024, 13:36:33 PMFinance.

Important because No money = No project.

If the QLD gov won't spend for the Olympics, they probably won't spend for additional GC rail tunnels, buying out BNE Airtrain, flagstone rail extension, ripley rail extension, brisbane subway, Toowoomba fast rail etc.

Changing strategy to move from singular mega projects to clusters of mini and midi projects is worth looking at.

Change strategy from spending 66% of budget on road projects and only 29% on public transport!  Funding is there just wasted.

Not necessarily Jonno. The route-km of roads would far, far outstrip the route-km of rail and busways.

Just to maintain that volume of road you would not expect an even funding split.

Qld is very decentralised, roads in regional areas are damaged and repaired each year from annual floods, storms and cyclones.

Quote from: #Metro on March 21, 2024, 17:02:49 PMNot necessarily Jonno. The route-km of roads would far, far outstrip the route-km of rail and busways.

Just to maintain that volume of road you would not expect an even funding split.

Qld is very decentralised, roads in regional areas are damaged and repaired each year from annual floods, storms and cyclones.

and around the congestion merry-go-round we go.  Nothing changes unless we change!

VAGO Report into cancellation of Comm. Games with mention of Brisbane 2032

Maybe the athletics might end up at Carrara? If so they could build a tram branch line connecting Broadbeach South and Nerang.

The opening and closing could remain in Brisbane as well as swimming and the other events at Chandler and Cleveland.

Soccer and Cricket would remain at Suncorp and the Gabba respectively.

If the transport is upgraded as the LNP promises then it may work

QSAC is not really a good choice, although an upgraded Carrara would be better with a tram.

At the end of the day, a stadium at Victoria Park is the best option location and transport wise. It seems now the pollies don't want it at this stage☹️

What could the transport upgrades be that the LNP have pledged today if elected?

Metro buses to Carseldine?
Sunshine Coast line but unlikely to be completed to Maroochydore by the Olympics?
Varsity lakes to Coolangatta rail extension.
Eastern busway extension
Electric bus statewide roll out.
A rail tunnel from Albion via Chermside to Bald Hills
Capacity upgrades on the Cleveland line?
New trains ordered both from a local and overseas facilities to speed up the roll out of new trains needed for all these extensions and general operations.
ETCS 2 across the network for DOO?

I honestly think that the decision to hold Athetics at QSAC is the best that could have happened. Every Olympics runs far over budget and the economic benefit is far lower than the expenditure. At this point the government needs to keep a very tight grip on the spending or we will be saddling Brisbane and QLD with overpriced venues that damage our budget for years.

I understand people's desires for more impressive stadiums but they are literally never the moneymakers the claim to be and they don't improve community sporting facilities.

I'd said before here that the Victoria park proposal would be a disaster and attract just as much protesting as the Gabba Rebuild has. But QLD is also a big state and the rest of the state won't be happy carrying the financial burden of overspend.

I think we need to discern our preferred public transport solutions for this new plan ASAP and advocate for them before the governments plans get too locked in. There's actually a lot of potential for densification along mains road should metrobus/Bertie stations be possible in what is already a very activated and popular part of the city.

For me a Bertie spur linking the stadium to the busway and to the train line has potential and would be a far more valuable legacy than a Victoria park stadium.

Quote from: AJ Transport on March 21, 2024, 20:03:53 PMI understand people's desires for more impressive stadiums but they are literally never the moneymakers the claim to be and they don't improve community sporting facilities.

The issue is that this isn't just about "more impressive stadiums". It's about the bare minimum for a city of Brisbane's size and events calendar. I'm not a sports guy but it's clear that what's in place will be inadequate for events beyond 2032 - they're deferring spend, not avoiding it, particularly wrt the Gabba.

Otherwise, I agree with you that the silver lining is the potential for proper development of, and proper transport to, the Nathan precinct.
Given they're already talking about "traffic management plans" and "bus layover facilities" at QSAC things do not look good.

The cost for all options is broadly the same. But the risk is probably lower for using an existing stadium.

Maybe the logic is the Qld Govt doesn't trust the idea of doing a from-scratch construction. All sorts of things could go wrong.

There is less risk exposure with QSAC/existing facility as it's already built, it just needs modifications.

The transport arrangements won't be great but are also historically proven.

A stadium can still be built in Victoria Park, just not for the Olympics.

IOC Statement

You could do a bit with temporary arrangements to QSAC largely as-is for a few weeks, and some of them could become permanent and even put into place sooner:

• Use Mains Road Park 'n' Ride as a bus terminus facility and use the multi story carpark for staff parking
• Dedicated buses from Darra (Ipswich/Springfield lines) to QSAC via dedicated bus lanes, especially along Granard/Riawena/Kessels
• Dedicated bus lanes down Mains Road and Beaudesert Road to Browns Plains, with Altandi Station as a train connection
• Perhaps even temporary dedicated bus lanes on the M3 to/from the city for extra capacity on normal bus services and close off the Klumpp Road exit and Mains Road motorway entrance to car traffic with detours
• Borrow some buses from Sydney as has been done before

The Netball stadium already causes traffic chaos when there's an event on and the police usually turn the traffic lights off and revert to hand signals... and that's not even an Olympic-sized event. Closing the area to general car traffic would be a necessary step IMO (people can expect disruption over the Olympics).

Griffith Mt Gravatt campus on the other side of the motorway is closing in the next few years, is already state owned, has sporting facilities, an Olympic swimming pool and accomodation facilities - with some (potentially a lot) of work it'd make a nice athlete's village/facility among others.

Couriermail --> Brisbane 2032: David Crisafulli rules out Victoria Park stadium $

QuoteQueensland Opposition Leader David Crisafulli has also rejected a $450k review that recommended building a new stadium at Victoria Park.

David Crisafulli will not build a new Victoria Park stadium in Brisbane's inner-city as recommended by an independent review, saying no new stadiums for the 2032 Games would happen under a government he leads.

Despite a $450,000 taxpayer-funded review analysing 900 submissions and declaring a new stadium at Victoria Park would offer the best value for money, the Opposition Leader on Thursday completely ruled it out. ...

... With an authority given 100 days to come up with a plan should the LNP win the October election, the deadline would push into February 2025 – more than three and a half years after Brisbane won the bid, and with just over seven years to go until the Games.

https://x.com/ozbob13/status/1770855570314063973?s=20



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Brisbanetimes --> LNP rejects new stadium in election pitch for fresh Games plan review $

QuoteQueensland Opposition Leader David Crisafulli has joined Premier Steven Miles in ruling out the new Victoria Park stadium recommended by a review of 2032 Games venue plans this week.

But Crisafulli has criticised Miles' move to "seize control" of the decision-making and put forward an alternative athletics venue, talked down by the review, instead pledging a review of his own.

"There can't be new stadiums, because that's not what Queenslanders signed up to," he told journalists. "For 1000 days, the Labor government has torched the Games. I'm asking Queenslanders for 100 days to fix this mess."

Seeking to differentiate the LNP's approach, Crisafulli said he would establish an independent infrastructure co-ordination authority if elected premier in October to reset debate – again.

The group would report back within 100 days with options for venue and transport infrastructure, with a focus on roads and rail, only using existing venues, staying within existing funding levels, and present legacy opportunities "for all of Queensland". ...

https://x.com/ozbob13/status/1770863791250493619?s=20

 

Couriermail --> Koala 'hotspot' to be bulldozed for $1.6bn Olympic stadium $

QuoteSignificant native forest home to endangered koalas would be bulldozed to make way for the state government's controversial Olympic athletics stadium.

Conservationists warn Premier Steven Miles's plan to build a $1.6bn stadium at the Queensland Sport and Athletics Centre would put at risk the koala "hotspot" of Toohey Forest.

An infrastructure review by former Brisbane Lord Mayor Graham Quirk, which argued against the QSAC stadium, noted site constraints meant building transport and associated Games infrastructure would be "extremely challenging and costly".

He warned facilitating the International Olympic Committee's requirements meant native forest adjacent to the stadium would need to be bulldozed. ...

* " ... With an authority given 100 days to come up with a plan should the LNP win the October election, the deadline would push into February 2025 – more than three and a half years after Brisbane won the bid, and with just over seven years to go until the Games. ... "

* https://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/brisbane-olympics-and-paralympics-2032/brisbane-2032-david-crisafulli-rules-out-victoria-park-stadium/news-story/477190fcf98a0671c48a5dff0b981087

So there you go, we really do not know what will be the final plans for the ' games ' until Feb 2025 if the LNP are successful in the October 2024 elections.  I did think the LNP would support the Quirk Review but no, they have taken the weak political path out of the mess.  No doubt this will impact on Qld votes.

This shambles just gets worse. We be just marking time ...

https://x.com/ozbob13/status/1770865185781117093?s=20

https://x.com/CameronAtfield/status/1770727219964297564?s=20

https://x.com/MarkGottlieb/status/1770698312741491145?s=20

Couriermail --> Queenslanders deserve much better than Crisafulli's cop-out over 2032 Brisbane Games venues $

QuoteDavid Crisafulli's decision to completely rule out any new stadiums being built for the 2032 Olympic and Paralympic Games should he become Premier is a total cop-out.

Queenslanders deserve a clear choice on the Games venues when they head to the polls in October.

The LNP has conceded they will not give them that choice. ...

https://x.com/7NewsBrisbane/status/1770743025934737454?s=20

Marlina is one of the best reporters going around IMHO.

https://x.com/9NewsQueensland/status/1770724308916088835?s=20

https://x.com/ozbob13/status/1770928917068890113?s=20

https://x.com/DavidCrisafulli/status/1770725333139853478?s=20

What's the 100day review going to conclude that the 60day review didn't?

And if there's a good reason for a 100day, how about we do it before the election?

Quote from: Habitant on March 22, 2024, 09:04:15 AMWhat's the 100day review going to conclude that the 60day review didn't?

And if there's a good reason for a 100day, how about we do it before the election?

My thoughts exactly. If Crisafulli reckons there is some other brains trust out there that can come up with a better solution given the parameters he's setting (no new venues, same budget envelope) then he should name them now and they can put forward their ideas now.

Otherwise he's just promising magic pudding stuff and to waste even more time and money.

Does anyone know why Hamilton isn't considered as a new stadium site? Area already covered by the PDA seems to have enough space for stadium and athletes village (converting to permanent housing post-Games). No issue with losing green space - its all underutilised industrial and hardstand.

Good opportunity for public transport legacy too? I know Doomben line is much debated elsewhere on this forum but the video above on how Sydney Olympic Park operates made me think something could work off the end of Doomben into the Hamilton precinct.

It just seems odd that it isn't even considered, yet the athlete's village will be there so it is on the Olympics radar. I must be missing something as to why it isn't even worth considering.

They have applied constraints to the selection criteria: no new stadiums.

Not sure about Hamilton.

It is not listed as one of the sites visited, in the Independent Review of Brisbane 2032 Olympic
and Paralympic Venue Infrastructure page 75.

Viz:

Appendix – List of Sites Visited

o Ballymore Stadium
o Brighton Homes Arena, SpringKeld
o Brisbane Arena (proposed)
o Brisbane Entertainment Centre, Boondall
o Brisbane Convention and Exhibition Centre
o Brisbane Indoor Sports Centre (proposed)
o Carrara Stadium
o Coomera Indoor Sports Centre
o Gold Coast Aquatic Centre
o Gold Coast Athlete Village, Robina (proposed)
o Gold Coast Sports and Leisure Centre, Carrara
o Lake Kawana
o Manly Boat Harbour
o Moreton Bay Indoor Sports Centre (proposed)
o QSAC Stadium, Nathan
o Queensland Tennis Centre, Tennyson
o Redland White Water Centre (proposed)
o RNA Showgrounds
o Sleeman Sports Complex, Chandler
o Sunshine Coast Athlete Village, Maroochydore (proposed)
o Sunshine Coast Indoor Sports Centre (proposed)
o Sunshine Coast Mountain Bike Centre (proposed)
o Sunshine Coast Stadium
o The Gabba
o Toowoomba Showgrounds
o Toowoomba Sports Ground
o Victoria Park
o Wyaralong Dam

I think we will end up with Suncorp Stadium (for the opening/closing), and QSAC for the athletics.

Even if the LNP do another 100 day review, I can't see much changing at all.

The Federal Government will not sign off on any money until it is all well and truly sorted. 
Perhaps another risk.

All in all, one of the biggest political/bureaucratic mega-cluster-fuks of all time!

Quote from: #Metro on March 22, 2024, 09:32:23 AMThey have applied constraints to the selection criteria: no new stadiums.

They have now - after the independent review (and for LNP, before the independent authority).

Quote from: ozbob on March 22, 2024, 09:36:11 AMNot sure about Hamilton.

It is not listed as one of the sites visited, in the Independent Review of Brisbane 2032 Olympic
and Paralympic Venue Infrastructure page 75.

That's the curious part. Not even in consideration.

Why does Athletics need much of a stadium anyway?
Is it that popular?

Quote from: Gazza on March 22, 2024, 10:38:01 AMWhy does Athletics need much of a stadium anyway?
Is it that popular?

One of the key sports for the Olympics.  It is very. very popular as an Olympics series of events.

Couriermail --> Brisbane 2032 organising boss condemns bickering over venues $

QuoteThe 2032 Games' planning boss has declared the ongoing bickering over venue infrastructure is "not a good look" as he set his sights on whipping the organisation committee into line.

Ahead of the body's first meeting of the year and on the back of widespread fury at Steven Miles' rejection of a recommendation to build a new stadium in Victoria Park, Brisbane 2032 Organising Committee President Andrew Liveris pleaded for the delivery to get back on track.

The global business tycoon said he was concerned by the negativity that had engulfed the Games as he prepared to address the committee members, which includes Premier Steven Miles and Lord Mayor Adrian Schrinner.

"What's going on right now, it's not a good look for any of us," Mr Liveris said. ...