RAIL - Back On Track Forum

Couriermail --> Analysis: Brisbane in danger of producing 'The 'ALDI Olympics' $

QuoteBrisbane powerbrokers need to get on with the job and stop the in-fighting or risk an embarrassing Olympics, writes state political editor Hayden Johnson.

A little after 6.30pm on July 21, 2021 thousands of Queenslanders – from Cairns to the Gold Coast – crammed into local viewing sites to watch their premier on a live feed from Tokyo.

Fast-forward to February 2024, Annastacia Palaszczuk had won the 2032 Games and was no longer premier – and the number of enthusiastic Brisbane Olympics supporters would struggle to fill a quarter of the still-standing Gabba Stadium.

Nearly three years of politicking and self-promotion has left Brisbane's Olympics infrastructure plans in tatters. Thanks to the diabolic mismanagement of the Gabba demolition and Ms Palaszczuk's exclusive obsession with the Games – above the festering issues of crime, housing and health – Brisbane is now at risk of seeing the pendulum swing too far the other way and instead delivering a cut-price Games: The ALDI Olympics. ...

 

Quote from: ozbob on February 18, 2024, 14:25:59 PM^  wishing and hoping ...

InQueensland --> Thanks Mr Coates, but if anyone is going to boss around our politicians, it should be us

QuoteHe might be one of the most powerful people in sports, but long-time Olympics boss John Coates needs to remember that the 2032 Games belong to us all, not just the elite, writes Madonna King.

Someone needs to put Olympic heavyweight John Coates in his place.

And it would be wonderful to see Labor premier Steven Miles and Liberal Lord Mayor Adrian Schrinner join political hands to do just that.

Coates has been part of the Olympic movement since Adam met Eve, and there's no doubt, as a sports administrator, he is mightily experienced.

But he doesn't run Queensland. Indeed, he doesn't even live here. He's not registered to vote here, and he's not entitled to boss the State's elected leaders around like they are his personal ball boys in a tennis match. ...

 

While the 2032 games may have been granted to us, the Olympics as an event belongs to the IOC, the organisation of which John Coates is a Vice President, so I think it is more than fair that he make his point of view known, a point of view that I'm sure that others in the IOC likely share.

I think they need to replace the present Brisbane 2032 organisers, they have clearly failed.

The need to put in place the independent body that Anna decided we didn't need. Bringing that inhouse was a very stupid idea.

In Queensland --> Brisbane halfway through Games journey - time to put pedal to metal, says retiring Mayor

QuoteProblems identified in the early planning for Queensland's Olympic bid nine years ago still remain, particularly with public transport, says an outgoing Mayor whose work contributed to the state's successful bid.

Outgoing Sunshine Coast Council (SCC) Mayor Mark Jamieson said the state government needed to get back to basics and work smartly to get the community's cooperation to get back on solid ground for the 2032 Olympic Games.

The Sunshine Coast will be a key delivery partner for the games including an athlete's village and 20,000 seat stadium.

"When I went to Sydney on behalf of the Council of Mayors to meet with IOC President Thomas Bach in 2015, he made it really clear about what he was after, we made it clear to him about what we're able to deliver. ...

 

Couriermail --> Bold Games plan puts stadium at Victoria Park, arena at the Gabba $

QuoteA 50,000-seat stadium should be built at Victoria Park, Suncorp Stadium upgraded and the Gabba transformed into a Madison Square Garden-style arena as part of a "golden triangle" events precinct for the 2032 Olympic and Paralympic Games, a Brisbane power couple has declared.

Frustrated with talk of a "cut-price Olympics", former South Bank chairman Steve Wilson and his company director wife Jane have called for Brisbane not to squib the opportunity to build transformative Games infrastructure. ...

Couriermail --> Editorial: Brisbane 2032 deserves more $

QuoteThe review of the venues planned for the Brisbane 2032 Olympic and Paralympic Games clearly has one primary political motivator: to give Premier Steven Miles the cover to dump his government's contentious plans to knock down and rebuild the Gabba as the main stadium.

But the review chief – former LNP Brisbane lord mayor Graham Quirk – would be doing his city a massive disservice if that were his primary motivator.

Fortunately, there is every sign so far that he is on the right track.

Mr Quirk's consultations have been many and varied, which is critical, because the reason the government ended up with the Gabba proposal in the first place was because one person – former premier Annastacia Palaszczuk – unilaterally unveiled it in the dying days of the successful bid process. ...

Any Olympic Stadium needs to look like this 👇🏻👇🏻

Can't see Albion being that.  Buses can't do the job.

https://x.com/transportfornsw/status/1762264020294529277?s=46&t=EDszjTErsxTIqAna7yuP-w

Quote from: Jonno on February 28, 2024, 07:58:56 AMAny Olympic Stadium needs to look like this 👇🏻👇🏻

Can't see Albion being that.  Buses can't do the job.

Victoria Park could because it's right next to the cross river rail line and a part-time station only used for events could presumably be built, but in general it would be a shame to lose the urban forest plan for Victoria Park.

Quote from: Courier-MailFrustrated with talk of a "cut-price Olympics", former South Bank chairman Steve Wilson and his company director wife Jane have called for Brisbane not to squib the opportunity to build transformative Games infrastructure.

Just because someone drops a narrative using the lines "vision" and "transformation" does not mean checks and balances go out the window.

The level of skepticism and checks need to increase the larger the project and its claims are.

A low cost Olympics was what was promised, there is a tonne of research into Olympic cost blowouts, etc. Stick to the plan.

https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/brisbane-news-live-lnp-s-candidate-vetting-problem-couple-found-dead-in-brisbane-home-20240227-p5f87j.html

QuoteA suggestion by former South Bank chairman Steve Wilson to build a 50,000-seat Olympic stadium at Victoria Park has been rebuffed by both Premier Steven Miles and Lord Mayor Adrian Schrinner.

But Wilson also suggested transforming the Gabba into an indoor arena, similar to New York's Madison Square Garden, ahead of the Games.

Our reporter Cameron Atfield floated the same concept for the Gabba last month. In this Perspective piece, he suggested the $2.5 billion Brisbane Arena, planned to be built over the rail lines at Roma Street, could instead be built on the Gabba site. ...

Brisbanetimes --> 'Golden triangle' of Games venues rejected by local, state leaders $

QuoteA proposal for a "golden triangle" of venues for the Brisbane Olympics, including a 50,000-seat stadium in Victoria Park, has failed to win the support of local or state government leaders.

Former South Bank chairman Steve Wilson and his company-director wife, Jane, had proposed a 50,000-seat stadium at Victoria Park, an upgraded Suncorp Stadium, and a Madison Square Garden-style transformation of the Gabba into an indoor arena. ...

https://x.com/ozbob13/status/1763568177546735966?s=20

Couriermail --> Brisbane 2032: Incredible vision proposed to give Victoria Park a pivotal Games role and legacy $

QuoteVictoria Park could be transformed into a world-class sporting, events and knowledge precinct for a similar price as the current plan to demolish and rebuild the Gabba and build Brisbane Arena over the Roma Street railway.

Incredible new images have been revealed, showcasing exactly how the sprawling parklands would be connected above the Inner City Bypass to create a massive 90ha sporting and events venue precinct with a 70,000-seat stadium and Brisbane indoor arena. ...

An aerial render of the proposed Victoria Park precinct showing its proximity to the CBD. Pictured Supplied by ARCHIPELAGO

> https://archipelago-interactive.com.au

This idea of Mr Wilson's is clearly a coordinated campaign with the Courier Mail given the amount of time and space they've dedicated to it.

I understand their viewpoint of wanting high end entertainment venues but it's destined for disaster. It's replacing one concept (rebuilding the Gabba) which was not sufficiently thought through and not consulted on with another concept that has the exact same failings. He believes it can be done within the same cost envelope but how can this be believed when it's been true of absolutely no major project at such an early stage for many years.

Besides this it ignores 2 things which will mean it will definitely fail:

1) This Olympics was specifically agreed to on the basis of not spending too much money on facilities with limited long term benefit. That has been a massive issue with Olympics in the past and so the IOC has changed their requirements to allow far more flexibility wit the aim of reducing cost and wastage. Mr Wilson's plan actively rejects that goal and tries to refocus Brisbane towards spending too much on facilities that lack broad community benefit.

2) It has the exact same issue as the Gabba in that it proposes taking away a community asset (in this case a Parkland which has been hyped as a pubic Green space for Brisbane for several years). I have no doubt that if Mr Wilson's proposal was enacted it would become just as big a controversy as the Gabba rebuild has been and will destroy any hope of a successful and positive Olympics.

There is clearly a stadium development lobby group which hates the idea of an affordable upgrade of QSAC. I know it has no Train station but it could be serviced by a Bertie Bus spur plus additional vehicles (not the perfect option but much easier than the other proposals being discussed).

https://x.com/10NewsFirstQLD/status/1764206728663503272?s=20

New plan to create an Olympic hub in the heart of the city | 7 News Australia

Yes, another private push aided and abetted by the Couriermail.  I think the Quirk review needs to be left alone until they determine the best path.  (Private submissions are fine, but this public canvassing is a bit  counter-productive in my view).  One thing that I think is essential is that the swimming venue must be a permanent legacy for the future.

Quote from: AJ Transport on March 03, 2024, 15:16:47 PMThere is clearly a stadium development lobby group which hates the idea of an affordable upgrade of QSAC. I know it has no Train station but it could be serviced by a Bertie Bus spur plus additional vehicles (not the perfect option but much easier than the other proposals being discussed).

QSAC is also in the middle of nowhere. No dining or entertainment precincts. It's not a good look for a major stadium to have nowhere to go before/after the sporting event.

It won't cost $5b to put up a temporary dining precinct if that's what is required

Relocate Eat Street lmao.

Victoria Park is not the right spot for any of this - it seems far too remote from any of the rail network.  You would be relying solely on the Inner Northern Busway for mass movement, which is a recipe for failure.

Quote from: SurfRail on March 04, 2024, 11:39:47 AMVictoria Park is not the right spot for any of this - it seems far too remote from any of the rail network.  You would be relying solely on the Inner Northern Busway for mass movement, which is a recipe for failure.

Would you not do an infill station near the the land bridge prior to the CRR dives?
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Inukshuk+Stone+Sculpture/@-27.4556391,153.0237886,226m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x6b915986bd2185d5:0x8366b63e62f92dbf!8m2!3d-27.4556262!4d153.0240731!16s%2Fg%2F11fmy0h5rd?entry=ttu
Most of Victoria park is within 500-600m radius of  such a station.
Possibly relocate the train wash facility so there is enough space to bifurcate platforms in the corridor.

The main downfall with Victoria Park is the loss of parklands being a major sticking point.

I actually think adjacent to RBWH, Bowen Bridge Road/RNA ground and Gregory Tce would be a great location.

A few things to move around like Energex Control Centre, knock down ugly unsafe car park and straighten a busway ramp between Herston and RBWH stations. Remove off ramp from ICB!

Walk to 2 rail stations and 2 busway stations.  Busway needs to run like rail not 100 bus routes.  Now there's an idea!!

Not sure about the other stadiums but the Main Stadium works. Could have warm up track near by. Close enough to current Athlete village too at Albion.

Jonno, any of these alternative sites need to be reasonably bigger than the Gabba, else its just repeating the same mistakes.

Distance between Gregory Tce and RBWH Car Park (which you would knock down) is almost 280m at Bowen Bridge Rd end and up to 400m as you move west.  Gabba is 220 wide inc overhangs at it widest so easily 60+m extra width at the narrowest point.  Length not an issue no real western constraints at Victoria Park.  Some drainage, busway and road/rail clearances to sort through but no real "physical constraint". Agree not the easiest/simplest site but surely can be designed through.

Yeah but if you're doing the whole stadium on this huge elevated deck it's not really any cheaper is it?

Remember the two failings with the gabba is that it is too constrained and it's too expensive.

No doubt you can design a stadium for that site, wether it is affordable is another matter.

It wouldn't worry me if they chose Victoria Park for a new stadium, warm up track and new aquatic centre. I also like the idea of demolishing the Gabba for 24,000 seat indoor arena. They could still build a bridge over Main Street or an underpass as well as the proposed green walkway to Southbank as a legacy project.

An indoor arena would be ideal at the Gabba as it would be easier for people to get to and from for major events and concerts.

The Victoria Park idea would likely fast track development around the Normanby side of Roma Street Parklands. Furthermore, it could fast track the vital over rail connections to the Barracks from Parkland Blvd for pedestrians and cyclists. It could also fast track a new western entry point to the above ground platforms at Roma Street station as well. It could be a subway or above ground bridge structure with escalators and lifts.

They could also upgrade Perry Park as well for the soccer etc...

This would provide most of the Olympic venues being within a stone's throw away of each other. Dressage, Athletics, Aquatics, Soccer etc...

The white water rafting can still be out at Cleveland at purpose built facilities and the preliminary soccer games still played in the regions.

Surfing can be shared both at the Sunny coast and Gold coast, in the ocean or at the new purpose built surf parks that they are planning.

If they abort the Gabba idea and just build an indoor arena instead, it could still provide the incentive for priority development around the Gabba precinct. An indoor arena at Woolloongabba would also be a better idea considering all the high rises and overall increased density going forward.

Gold Coast Bulletin --> 2032 Olympic Games: Gold Coast City Council's pitch to save event $5bn by hosting more sports $

QuoteA whopping $5 billion of taxpayer money can be saved if the Gold Coast's existing Commonwealth Games venues are used for the Olympics, a review reveals.

The Bulletin has obtained the City's submission to the 60-day review of the Olympic and Paralympic Games Brisbane 2032 Venue Master Plan.

Council has put forward a "bold solution" which would deliver a spectacular event in what is says will be a "financially prudent, responsible, and sustainable way".

City CEO Tim Baker said "We are really pleased this review is underway as we have identified about $5 billion dollars in savings simply by exploiting existing Gold Coast infrastructure and planned development that will be completed well before the Games.

"We have world class facilities on the Gold Coast that have hosted national and international events which are not currently identified as part of the Games program."

The key venues or sports are the Gold Coast Aquatic Centre, Heritage Bank Stadium, Gold Coast Hockey Centre, several golf course locations, Regatta Waters Lake and BMX and skateboarding facilities.

The International Olympic Committee new norms emphasise optimum use of existing infrastructure — and council argues it would be irresponsible not to consider Coast facilities. ...

And no doubt the transport plans are...checks notes...buses and 2 hr wait in lines to catch them

The Australian --> Business, sports and civic leaders back new approach on Brisbane Olympics' venues $

QuoteBusiness, sports and civic leaders in Brisbane have joined a push to rethink the multi-billion-dollar spend on venues for the 2032 Olympics, warning against "white elephant" stadiums and second-best outcomes.

Spurred by the intervention of wealthy stockbroker Steve Wilson, a former chair of the acclaimed inner-city Southbank arts and parks precinct, they have called for better planning and tight integration of venues to deliver "bang for the buck" from the Games. ...

Couriermail --> Brisbane 2032 Games: Mark Stockwell calls for permanent aquatic centre $

QuoteA world-class stand-alone aquatic centre must be a Brisbane 2032 Games legacy centrepiece, and plans for a drop-in pool to host the swimming should be dumped, according to decorated Olympian and property developer Mark Stockwell.

The three-time Games medallist was involved in the early planning of the city's bid and said a stand-alone centre – as opposed to a new Brisbane Live arena hosting temporary pools – must be considered to deliver lasting community benefits.

"When the opportunity arose to win the Olympics and Paralympics for Brisbane there was a general feeling of 'let's win the rights to host the Games and then we will come back and review the plan in all its detail'," he said.

"This has not happened, and in talking to most presidents of Olympic and Paralympic sports the direct consultation never took place.

"There has been no indication that the construction of a permanent aquatic facility has ever genuinely been considered by the government as an alternative venue to Brisbane Live arena – until now." ...

^ Absolutely.  A drop in pool at the doomed site over Roma St station was absolutely stupid, and a hallmark of the failed Olympic Games planning to this point.

"Swimming Australia presented to former lord mayor Graham Quirk's 60-day review into Games venues last month, pushing for a new permanent facility to be built."

Thank goodness! There must be a permanent legacy for such a key sport.

https://x.com/ozbob13/status/1766868411450343788?s=20

Couriermail --> Opinion: Brisbane 2032 Games organisation needs shake-up $

QuoteThe original plan for collaborative organisation of the Brisbane 2032 Games has not happened, writes Mark Stockwell

The 2032 Olympic and Paralympic Games provide a tremendous opportunity to bring forward infrastructure; transport, sporting facilities, and housing that will be required for our growing city and region, not only for the Games, but into the future. The expenditure on this infrastructure will happen in the future, regardless of the Games. The Games present an opportunity to bring this forward.

These facilities will not only ensure a great Olympics and Paralympics in 2032 but will fire up South East Queensland sports events and tourism strategies.

Olympic and Paralympic cities are usually big cities like Paris, London, Tokyo and Beijing, where sporting infrastructure is already in place. The IOC New Norm strategy makes sense if one of these cities is hosting the Games. ...

Needs more than a shake up!  Needs a new organising committee of doers, not sycophants!!

What an absolute farce this has been to this point.

Considering how fuked up transport is, no great surprise hey?

Front page Couriermail 11th March 2024

LET'S START GAMES BUILD OLYMPIC BOSS TELLS POLLIES
 

QuoteBrisbane 2032 Olympic and Paralympic Games president Andrew Liveris has urged all political sides to back the imminent findings of Graham Quirk's venue infrastructure review – and get building.

The organising committee boss said he held concerns over lost time and with a week to go until the former Lord Mayor would deliver his Games recommendations, it was "time to move forward as one".

You don't say Mr Liveris! 

Couriermail --> Editor's view: Cut price Games would be a disaster $

QuoteGood leadership requires a solid appetite for calculated risk. Taking the easy path is rarely the correct approach, at least in the long term and this is the test Steven Miles faces.

Good leadership requires a solid appetite for calculated risk. Taking the easy path is rarely the correct approach, at least in the long term.

This is exactly the test Premier Steven Miles faces in coming days as he receives and then considers his response to the outcome of his 60-day review into the venues for the 2032 Brisbane Olympic and Paralympic Games.

If review chief, former Brisbane LNP lord mayor Graham Quirk, has done his job right, he will be recommending a bold approach to venues for the Games – rather than the taking easier political path of treating a home Olympics and Paralympics as little more than a bigger version of the 2018 Gold Coast Commonwealth Games. ...

The 'Vision & Transformation' lobby are relentless, cost and risk and known past experience are no object to them.

We know statistically, with very high confidence, that past games almost always overran, and by a large margin.

Do leaders want to incorporate what we know from prior experience, or just ignore sound advice because it didn't align with 'the vision'?