RAIL - Back On Track Forum

It also looks like that they are heavily investing in new cycleways along the rail corridor as well as in and around stations, which is good.

" Engagement on the latest designs is now underway, with community drop-in sessions being held throughout November and December 2023.

To find out more about the project, view the drop-in session locations and times, or provide feedback online, visit the online engagement hub.

Engagement closes on Sunday 10 December 2023. "

> https://www.yoursay-projects.tmr.qld.gov.au/logan-and-gold-coast-faster-rail

Interesting...it looks like the tracks will be in a up-fast, up-slow, down-slow, down-fast configuration, with island platforms only for the middle roads.
Can anyone confirm this?

Quote from: verbatim9 on November 14, 2023, 09:25:45 AMIt also looks like that they are heavily investing in new cycleways along the rail corridor as well as in and around stations, which is good.

The full length side is great but the parking facilities are very minimal at the stations and the roads/parking around them are still hostile. I would rather see the car parking costs spent on separated bike lanes on the surrounding roads (irrespective of it being a local road).   

The feedback form only asks for feedback on the "full length". Almost feels like their only see cycling as a parallel route element (aka like a road/rail) issue not a passenger access/growth one.

Quote from: RowBro on November 14, 2023, 06:36:53 AMI think the bus station should be far closer to the station entrance.

The Beenleigh Bus Station? I don't think it could be much closer really. In terms of walking distance, it's probably better than the existing station, where you have to hike down the ramp from the station and back up a ramp to the buses.

Overall I like the designs. New Woodridge looks awesome. And I much prefer the new Beenleigh location they're proposing. Interesting to see they're deleting the third platform at Bethania. There seems to be ample room in the corridor to keep it, even with the quad. I know hypothetically they wouldn't need a third platform there but wouldn't it be good to have as an option rather than demolishing it? There are no trains that stop on the mains at Toombul and Nundah but the platforms are still there.

Quote from: nathandavid88 on November 14, 2023, 10:48:12 AM

Quote from: RowBro on November 14, 2023, 06:36:53 AMI think the bus station should be far closer to the station entrance.

The Beenleigh Bus Station? I don't think it could be much closer really. In terms of walking distance, it's probably better than the existing station, where you have to hike down the ramp from the station and back up a ramp to the buses.

It appeared to be a lot further away in one of the renders. If that is the proper plan, then it seems to be fine.

Quote from: timh on November 14, 2023, 10:51:06 AMOverall I like the designs. New Woodridge looks awesome. And I much prefer the new Beenleigh location they're proposing. Interesting to see they're deleting the third platform at Bethania. There seems to be ample room in the corridor to keep it, even with the quad. I know hypothetically they wouldn't need a third platform there but wouldn't it be good to have as an option rather than demolishing it? There are no trains that stop on the mains at Toombul and Nundah but the platforms are still there.

Probably a cost cutting measure. Neither Toombul or Nundah have received an upgrade since the express pattern made the platform's redundant so we can't be sure whether they would keep them. Platform's 3 and 4 are used at Toombul and Nundah on Saturday (or Sunday?) mornings while they do track walks.

Quote from: Derailed2 on November 14, 2023, 09:47:49 AMInteresting...it looks like the tracks will be in a up-fast, up-slow, down-slow, down-fast configuration, with island platforms only for the middle roads.
Can anyone confirm this?

That appears to be the case - island platforms servicing the inside lines with outside lines bypassing, with the exception of Beenleigh & Loganlea, and also Kuraby which looks to retain 3 platforms despite the plans showing 4 lines passing through.

I know the answer will be but "What about LAYOVERS" but an inline BRT station on Zander Street with direct access to platforms by moving the pedestrian overpass to be parallel/adjacent to Zander Street would look and work great.

Edit:  or parallel platform where the car parking monstrosity is linked into single pedestrian overpass.

Quote from: timh on November 14, 2023, 10:51:06 AMOverall I like the designs. New Woodridge looks awesome. And I much prefer the new Beenleigh location they're proposing. Interesting to see they're deleting the third platform at Bethania. There seems to be ample room in the corridor to keep it, even with the quad. I know hypothetically they wouldn't need a third platform there but wouldn't it be good to have as an option rather than demolishing it? There are no trains that stop on the mains at Toombul and Nundah but the platforms are still there.

Too many problems with it.

And as has been mentioned on the weekends the mains and subs are merged. Also during delays services are made all stoppers. We saw this with Redcliffe and Caboolture services stopping all stops on the mains while shorncliffe ran as a shuttle Northgate-Shorncliffe. Doesn't happen all the time but it does sometimes when Doomben services block the subs in peak.

Overall this seems like a plan for the long term. While I am no engineer, on the surface this looks good.

I wonder what the transport planner Minerva thinks of the design? Does he still comment on this forum from time to time?

So "Off the Mark"

https://x.com/modacitylife/status/1724322419928596799?

What would you change ?

Quote from: kram0 on November 14, 2023, 17:48:25 PMWhat would you change ?

essentially I would make the area around the stations

• walkable,
• higher density/mixed use
• separated lanes on the major roads
• no park n rides
• roads designed for all users not just vehicle movement/speed and
• integrated bus stations only where it makes sense from a BRT route network perspective (i.e. Beenleigh, Loganlea, Kuraby, Kingston)

Quote from: ozbob on November 14, 2023, 07:56:21 AMFacebook ...

Logan and Gold Coast Faster Rail (Kuraby - Beenleigh track...

Posted by RAIL - Back On Track on Monday, 13 November 2023

^ this post disappeared overnight from the Facebook server.  There is no record in the page management history of it being deleted, so I can only assume there has been some sort of internal failure with Facebook and they have reinstated an earlier backup.

I have reposted the basic information at https://www.facebook.com/RAILBackOnTrack/posts/738833448283513

Facebook ...

Quote from: Jonno on November 14, 2023, 22:40:46 PM

Quote from: kram0 on November 14, 2023, 17:48:25 PMWhat would you change ?

essentially I would make the area around the stations

• walkable,
• higher density/mixed use
• separated lanes on the major roads
• no park n rides
• roads designed for all users not just vehicle movement/speed and
• integrated bus stations only where it makes sense from a BRT route network perspective (i.e. Beenleigh, Loganlea, Kuraby, Kingston)

Thinking more about BRT integration it makes a lot more sense for Woodridge Station to be rebuilt over Wembley Road.  Maybe renamed Logan Central (? - can shoot that one down) Maccers would love the idea!!! Right next to Logan City Council offices and....   

We should ask this evening if the Trinder Park section as well as Loganlea and Beenleigh stations will be fast tracked, so they can open in time for the commissioning of CRR.

Couriermail --> Transport Minister Mark Bailey forced to reveal cost of Gold Coast Faster Rail project blown out by $2.5bn $

QuoteState Transport Minister Mark Bailey has again been exposed hiding billions of dollars in project blowouts just months after he almost lost his job for trying to hide a major overrun.

Taxpayers will spend an extra $2.5bn to build the Gold Coast Faster Rail project, which is now tipped to cost "a bit more" than $5bn. ...

Interview ABC Gold Coast 16 Nov 2023 Drive with Host Julie Clift and Robert Dow RBoT re Infrastructure Review and the Logan and Gold Coast Faster Rail project.

Interview --> https://backontrack.org/docs/abcgc/abcgc_jc_rd_16nov23.mp3 MP3 6.9MB

https://x.com/9NewsQueensland/status/1725063336444809627?s=20

LGCFR 9 station rebuilds + 5 LXRs over 18 km at say $5.5 billion => $305 million / km

 

My City Logan 28th November 2023 page 5

Underground dreams derailed

https://twitter.com/9NewsQueensland/status/1729413320791241014?t=y8EXR8WBf2jZjZ7Aa3onwQ&s=19

Well, given LGCFR has not really started major works, the latest figure should be taken with some salt as it seems there is room for potential further increases as the project progresses.

Given the size of the cost increase, and increases in other projects such as QTMP, IMO something else in the TMR budget is likely to be cut or delayed. This is likely to be the Sunshine Coast rail line project - good possibility now that will be done as a 'do minimum' project with the remainder left to later stages.

For the avoidance of doubt, I am not suggesting or attributing the cost increase to any action taken or not taken by the minister or QLD Government. We simply do not know the causes of the increase at this stage.

Miss spoke. Okay then. I don't support any particular party. They all have their good and bad policies. But Bailey just keeps giving away own goals.

The justification for instigating any new big infrastructure project is that the benefits the project delivers (travel time savings, maintenance of old track versus lower maintenance costs for new track etc)outweighs the cost of construction.

Will this new, higher price mean that the BCR (benefit-cost ratio) falls below 1?  If so the return on the project is negative, going backwards.

Even at its higher price tag, the Direct Sunshine Coast Line very probably would have a positive BCR.

The other thing is, LGCFR questions and consultation website. If you look at the questions, there are very few straight answers given. Responses there are vague, indirect, and highly evasive. It is unsatisfactory.

We are talking about *basics* like how many minutes does each train service save?

They definitely have this information because you cannot do the BCR valuation for time savings without it.

Similar thing with potential post-project service frequencies or whether a second project is required (Park Road to Kuraby) to enable 15 min trains on both Beenleigh and GC lines off-peak and both directions.

I'm not prepared to accept that price increases automatically mean the benefits remain static.

For that matter I'm not even really prepared to accept a BCR as some necessary or even useful guideline for investing in major projects.  99% of it is all woo anyway.

It is a matter of public accountability that these due diligence processes are carried out. And claims are stress tested.

In the age of spin and influencer narratives, following due process is more important than ever IMO.

Hope to see all Active Transport proposals stay or enhanced.

Priority in line with the commissioning of CRR (stage 1).

Trinder Park realignment
Loganlea station relocation
Beenleigh station relocation (together with track amplification at both stations for turn backs and passing loops)

Palaszczuk Government delivers key projects to transform SEQ Rail Network

https://statements.qld.gov.au/statements/99264

29th November 2023

Minister for Transport and Main Roads and Minister for Digital Services
The Honourable Mark Bailey

. The Palaszczuk Government is transforming the South East Queensland rail network to support Queensland's booming population

. The Logan and Gold Coast Faster Rail project is an essential part of this transformation, with funding commitments from both the state and federal governments

. The project will ensure the benefits of Cross River Rail for the Gold Coast and Beenleigh lines are fully realised.

Queensland is Australia's growth state with 2000 people moving here every week.

We need a world-class transport system to support our growing population and to get ready for the Brisbane 2032 Olympic and Paralympic Games.

With Cross River Rail well underway, the 20km section of rail line between Kuraby and Beenleigh (the Logan and Gold Coast Faster Rail project corridor) is the next critical bottleneck to unlock, to provide more frequent rail services in the future.

Logan and Gold Coast Faster Rail will double track capacity to allow more of our fastest express trains to run freely with more all-stops services, giving customers better and more frequent services.

Currently, all services on the Gold Coast and Beenleigh line are constrained by single tracks in each direction between Kuraby and Beenleigh.

Increasing the number of tracks from two to four and allowing the free movement of both all-stops and express trains, more of our fastest services can run more frequently and more reliably.

One in five Queenslanders live with a disability and this- project will improve train station accessibility by upgrading stations between Kuraby and Beenleigh (including Loganlea, funded separately), remove five level crossings, increase park 'n' ride spaces, and providing a new active travel path connecting to stations along the 20km section of upgraded tracks. 

Procurement and consultation activities are well underway with the current round of community consultation open until 10 December 2023.

Quotes attributable to Mark Bailey, Minister for Transport and Main Roads

"The Palaszczuk Government is committed to delivering the projects that will transform our state.

"From massive projects along the Bruce Highway, including the Gympie Bypass and the Rocky Ring Road, to upgrades along the M1 that will ease congestion and improve safety.

"We have a forward plan of significant road, rail and public transport projects that will deliver a lasting legacy for Queenslanders.

"We will continue to fight for the Logan and Gold Coast Faster Rail project because we understand how important it is.

"By doubling track capacity, from two tracks to four tracks our faster express trains will no longer have to compete for priority with all-stations services, enabling more trains to service two of Queensland's fastest growing communities.

"As I informed the parliament today, this project, like many major infrastructure projects across the world, has been subject to cost escalations which have seen the confirmed estimate increase to $5.75 billion.

"This is a government that gets on with the job and builds the infrastructure Queensland needs."

Ends.

^ Here comes the tsunami of pre-election press releases.

This one also carefully avoids mentioning how many minutes time saved.

It's negated by the fact Gold Coast trains will have more stops to make. And of course it depends on the network which is hard to model at the moment as rollingstock and signalling have to be taken into account.

QuoteIt's negated by the fact Gold Coast trains will have more stops to make.

GC trains wont be making additional stops between Kuraby and Beenleigh, so a direct comparsion is possible.
Obviously the full end to end journey is dicated by CRR and the new infill stations, but there's nothing stopping them from saying the time saving along the relevant sector.

Quoteas rollingstock and signalling have to be taken into account.

Could you not just model it based on an NRG. If it gets better with the future rolling stock, cool, but at least give us a starting point.

The funny thing is, with road upgrades the are not afraid to tout the time savings for drivers.

As far as I'm aware the time savings for GC line on this project is negligible. There is about a 5 minute time saving on Beenleigh line trains because they would no longer have to hold for GC trains to pass..

From what we've gathered from meetings with TMR, the project is more about increasing capacity on the Gold coast line rather than speed

^^ There's also the removal of the Trinder Park curve, but on the whole I do agree that time savings are likely negligible, and I think this fact is reflected in the Government's press release which really plugs the "more trains more often" theme:

Currently, all services on the Gold Coast and Beenleigh line are constrained by single tracks in each direction between Kuraby and Beenleigh.

Increasing the number of tracks from two to four and allowing the free movement of both all-stops and express trains, more of our fastest services can run more frequently and more reliably.

Quote from: Gazza on November 30, 2023, 08:47:02 AM

QuoteIt's negated by the fact Gold Coast trains will have more stops to make.

GC trains wont be making additional stops between Kuraby and Beenleigh, so a direct comparsion is possible.
Obviously the full end to end journey is dicated by CRR and the new infill stations, but there's nothing stopping them from saying the time saving along the relevant sector.

Quoteas rollingstock and signalling have to be taken into account.

Could you not just model it based on an NRG. If it gets better with the future rolling stock, cool, but at least give us a starting point.

The funny thing is, with road upgrades the are not afraid to tout the time savings for drivers.

But you still don't know the final setup in terms of the network ie adding fat to timetables, crossovers, stopping patterns etc. South of Beenleigh will have extra stops. Similar to the tilt train now. Spruked as a faster service running at 160kph on a far better alignment but now has the same running time as the Spirit of Capricorn it replaced. If you claim it's 4 minutes faster now but only to change timetables again to reflect the stations south of Beenleigh being 4 minutes slower. While not too important it's all about face with Bailey trying to limit anything.

Shouldn't the project be renamed Gold Coast Logan Higher Capacity Rail or Reliability Project, which is more accurate?

We seem to have a naming issue in Queensland. Buses masquerading as metro trains, low speed rail being presented as fast or faster...