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Couriermail --> State budget: $35m to investigate toll tunnel on Brisbane's northside from Kedron to Carseldine $

QuoteThe state budget will include $35 million to investigate the feasibility of a congestion-busting tolled tunnel linking Brisbane's northern suburbs.

A congestion-busting tolled tunnel linking Kedron to Carseldine will be investigated under a $35m investment to be included in the upcoming state budget.

The 7 km tunnel would traverse the long-preserved North West transport corridor and stick closely to Gympie Rd, with Treasurer Cameron Dick confident it can be built within eight years if it stacks up.

The state government will set aside $35m in the upcoming 2023/24 budget to determine if a toll tunnel on Brisbane's northside from Airport Link at Kedron and emerging at Carseldine is viable.

A new entity named North Brisbane Infrastructure will be established by the Queensland Investment Corporation to undertake the detailed transport modelling, technical assessments and financial analysis.

Public and active transport needs, like bicycle lanes, will also be considered. ...

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https://twitter.com/ozbob13/status/1667598619149754368

Facebook ...

We are well and truly in a Hell Loop!!

No words can describe my thoughts right now so instead I shall express them with emojis.
        

In all seriousness though, what are they thinking? What's going to happen when all these additional people using the tunnel get into the city?? It's not like you can widen George street! Encouraging more people to drive into an already congested CBD isn't going to bust congestion at all. All this is going to do is move the issue, just like almost every other "congestion busting" project. It doesn't take a genius to realise that.

I found Council's proposal was well balanced with a train tunnel and surface metro buses as well as road tunnels.

I don't know what all the fuss was about just because some people didn't like the alignment they were proposing.

Quote from: RowBro on June 11, 2023, 09:36:39 AMNo words can describe my thoughts right now so instead I shall express them with emojis.
       

In all seriousness though, what are they thinking? What's going to happen when all these additional people using the tunnel get into the city?? It's not like you can widen George street! Encouraging more people to drive into an already congested CBD isn't going to bust congestion at all. All this is going to do is move the issue, just like almost every other "congestion busting" project. It doesn't take a genius to realise that.

At the end of the day there is going to be a road tunnel from point A to point B to bypass congestion on the surface roads.

More $$$ on another study. Imagine how many electric buses and new dynamic internal and external PIDs 35 million could buy!!!

We have already had a extensive and costly study by Council, no need for another one.

Just refer to that one and tweak where needed!

https://twitter.com/bne_lordmayor/status/1667638307025723392

QuotePublic and active transport needs, like bicycle lanes, will also be considered. ...

So, the distance between Carseldine to the CBD is about 14 km.

At 15 km/hr taking the cycling option you will spend about 56 minutes.

Walking even more...

It is not just about provision of infrastructure... it has to be reasonable to want to use it.

Almost all other modes than walking will be much faster than this... you would need buses and trains for this... cycleway and walking is pretty but it isn't going to scale as an alternative to driving.

The other thing is that the Queensland Government seems very quick out of the gate on this. $10 million Morrison study + $35 million this study = $45 million being spent on studies. How many BUZ routes could we be on right now with that sort of money?

Not sure how they expect to link the Airport Link tunnel to a northern tunnel running along the Trouts Road corridor - they are 4km apart at the southern end, it sounds like a red herring.

To me, this is simply a state government plan for a motorway tunnel running underneath Gympie Road - which is an absolutely terrible idea, an extreme waste of money, and something nobody has asked for anywhere. It almost smells of pork barrelling.

Unless this is the cheapest way of delivering the Northern Busway (i.e. you chuck the cars in a tunnel and then turn half of Gympie Road into a busway), this is an absolutely terrible idea. Spend this $35m on housing, not more money for consultants.

QuoteUnless this is the cheapest way of delivering the Northern Busway (i.e. you chuck the cars in a tunnel and then turn half of Gympie Road into a busway), this is an absolutely terrible idea. Spend this $35m on housing, not more money for consultants.

A busway is just a road with buses on it rather than cars, plus some stations here and there.

If it really is going to Chermside (can't be sure at this stage) under Gympie Road then why not just complete the Northern Busway?

Also, there is a difference between finance and investment.

Finance is how you get the money (savings, loans, GoFundMe), investment is what you spend it on (holiday, expenses).

In this case, the finance component is the toll and the investment component is the road. Together this gives you the toll road.

In theory, there is nothing stopping QIC from constructing the remainder of the northern busway and charging TransLink a shadow toll for each bus going through it. Brisbane Airtrain financing was similar, but in that case the toll landed on the end user rather than TransLink.

Quote from: verbatim9 on June 11, 2023, 10:03:26 AM

Quote from: RowBro on June 11, 2023, 09:36:39 AMNo words can describe my thoughts right now so instead I shall express them with emojis.
       

In all seriousness though, what are they thinking? What's going to happen when all these additional people using the tunnel get into the city?? It's not like you can widen George street! Encouraging more people to drive into an already congested CBD isn't going to bust congestion at all. All this is going to do is move the issue, just like almost every other "congestion busting" project. It doesn't take a genius to realise that.

At the end of the day there is going to be a road tunnel from point A to point B to bypass congestion on the surface roads.

But what happens when the bypass of the bypass of the bypass of the bypass of the bypass of the bypass is congested now too!!

Yeah topologically this isn't the NWTC and geographically it has no reason to follow the NWTC, it's just that the northern end is co-located.

It's a Chermside Bypass writ large.

https://twitter.com/TheOtherTara/status/1667673953178116096

^ Hilarious 

https://statements.qld.gov.au/statements/97905

Plan revealed for new northside road tunnel

11th June 2023

Treasurer and Minister for Trade and Investment
The Honourable Cameron Dick

. Queensland Investment Corporation to oversee $35 million study on potential toll tunnel from Kedron to Carseldine

. Offers seamless link from Bruce Hwy to Legacy Way, Clem 7, M1 and Centenary Hwy

. At around 7km, only 2/3 the distance of proposed North-West Transport Corridor

The Palaszczuk Government will invest $35 million in a detailed investment proposal towards building a congestion-busting road tunnel between Kedron and Carseldine in Brisbane's north.

The proposal will be led by a new entity, North Brisbane Infrastructure, which will be established through the Queensland Investment Corporation.

North Brisbane Infrastructure will undertake detailed transport modelling, technical assessments and financial analysis as part of this process.

The analysis will also consider the interaction of the proposed tunnel with public and active transport needs and opportunities along the corridor.

Quotes attributable to Treasurer and Minister for Trade and Investment Cameron Dick:

"This detailed investment proposal is a clear demonstration of how our Government is planning for Queensland's future growth.

"This is new solution proposed for a long-established challenge – easing congestion through Brisbane's north.

"As a world-leader in funds management, the Queensland Investment Corporation has nearly $30 billion worth of infrastructure assets under management.

"It has the expertise to give us the clearest answer in the shortest time to decide whether a Gympie Road toll tunnel stacks up.

"Forecast population growth on the Sunshine Coast and in the Moreton Bay region will increase traffic into Brisbane, so now is the right time to do this work.

"Based on Brisbane's most recent road tunnel projects, from this point the tunnel could potentially be built within about eight years if it stacks up.

Quotes attributable to Minister for Transport and Main Roads Mark Bailey

"A Gympie Road Bypass solution would complement the works currently underway to bust congestion and improve connectivity as part of the Northern Transitway from Kedron to Chermside.

"The investment proposal will also consider active transport, which we know is an important option for the future.

"This kind of forward planning is a key part of the Palaszczuk Government's significant road and transport investment."

Quotes attributable to Member for Aspley Bart Mellish

"Locals tell me they don't want to see a new road constructed on the Trouts Road corridor, which would effectively cut our northside community in two, and I agree with them.

"This is the simplest, most effective and least disruptive solution to Gympie Road gridlock.

"I've been pushing for a fix to Gympie Road Gridlock for long time - and I'm thrilled that we've now got a real solution on the table."

Quotes attributable to Member for Pine Rivers Nikki Boyd

"More and more people are recognising Pine Rivers as a great area to raise a family, but the lack of an efficient corridor to the city and beyond can make the commute unsustainable.

"A new tunnel under Gympie Road would unblock across Brisbane's north."

Quotes attributable to Member for Stafford Jimmy Sullivan.

"Gympie Road is being forced to function as both a highway and a local road at the same time.

"It can't continue to do both.

"By taking through-traffic underground, Gympie Road could go back to its original purpose of connecting locals to local destinations."

Potential benefits to be examined as part of detailed investment proposal include:

. shorter commuter times
. better connections with the Bruce Highway to and from the Sunshine Coast
. better connections to the west of the city through Legacy Way and south through the Clem7 to the M1
. Improving amenity and liveability for locals by removing through traffic from Gympie Road.

Given the significance of the project, any tunnel will need to be tolled, and this will be considered as part of the detailed investment proposal.

Community consultation to allow local residents, businesses and other key stakeholders to have their say will be undertaken later this year.

ENDS




 

Quote from: aldonius on June 11, 2023, 12:28:40 PMYeah topologically this isn't the NWTC and geographically it has no reason to follow the NWTC, it's just that the northern end is co-located.

It's a Chermside Bypass writ large.

Correct! 

Quote"A Gympie Road Bypass solution would complement the works currently underway to bust congestion and improve connectivity as part of the Northern Transitway from Kedron to Chermside.

Not going to 'bust' anything.

If it is tolled, traffic will continue to use Gympie Road as it avoids the toll.

Are lanes going to be removed from Gympie Road to facilitate this? Copenhagen Cycling lanes either side up and down Gympie Road from Chermside is the least that they could do.

That and building the Northern Busway proper.

https://twitter.com/railbotforum/status/1667727449751449602

From the statement:

"A new tunnel under Gympie Road would unblock across Brisbane's north."

Brisbanetimes --> Here we go again: Another study into north Brisbane tunnel proposal

QuoteThe Queensland government will spend $35 million taking a fresh look at a proposal to build a road tunnel in Brisbane's north.

The latest proposal – for a seven-kilometre tunnel – would provide a link from the Bruce Highway to Legacy Way, Clem7, M1 and the Centenary Highway between Kedron and Carseldine. ...

https://twitter.com/ozbob13/status/1667733090599604224

 

https://twitter.com/ozbob13/status/1667732055726370817

TMR should drop any pretense that it is anything other than Department of Main Rds! 

This all but confirms rail expansion in the North is dead.

What a fing joke Politicians are.

Quote from: kram0 on June 11, 2023, 18:13:02 PMThis all but confirms rail expansion in the North is dead.

What a fing joke Politicians are.

We are still likely to get something similar to what Council has proposed with a rail tunnel from Albion to Carseldine via Chermside which would reconnect to the Northern line on a 4th track to Strathpine.

I'll believe it when I see it. Unfortunately Government are not talking rail but let's see what the budget brings on Tuesday.

Couriermail --> Adrian Schrinner welcomes state's northside tunnel proposal $

QuoteA possible new tunnel to alleviate a major Brisbane bottleneck has been welcomed by Brisbane Lord Mayor Adrian Schrinner, even though it will be significantly shorter than one proposed by city council.

A new tunnel for Brisbane's northside, bypassing Gympie Rd, has been welcomed by Brisbane Lord Mayor Adrian Schrinner, even though it will be two-thirds shorter than the one proposed by the city council.

The new proposal, announced by the Palaszczuk Government on Sunday, could bring to an end the ongoing political fight between it and the Brisbane City Council which has delayed the congestion busting proposal for years.

Set to link Beams Rd at Carseldine to the Airport Link and Clem7, the 7km tunnel is expected to be completed in time for the 2032 Olympic Games. ...

https://twitter.com/ozbob13/status/1668112128321142785

Red Dumb and Dumber vs Blue Dumb and Dumber.  When all you have is Hammer every problem looks like a nail.

https://twitter.com/JonathanPBryant/status/1668117110818770945

Who has money to afford all these tolls?

Also why are the Olympics relevant to this project? Are visitors going to be staying north of Carseldine and driving to the stadiums instead of using public transport?

QuoteSo, the distance between Carseldine to the CBD is about 14 km.

Need to drop the mindset that people only travel to the CBD.

Not all the traffic on Gympie Rd is even city bound or originating.

Is it safe for someone in Bracken Ridge to cycle to a Job at Chermside?

Is it safe for someone in Kedron to cycle to the Valley?

QuoteWho has money to afford all these tolls?

Also why are the Olympics relevant to this project? Are visitors going to be staying north of Carseldine and driving to the stadiums instead of using public transport?

IOC and Government officials perhaps? 

You could imagine a road tunnel and then you take all the cars out of it and replace them with buses. That's your busway (almost).

A bus tunnel would not need to be built to accomodate 4 lanes in total, just two- one in each direction - would do. You would think that a smaller tunnel would favour the bus option, except for stations where stations would have to be dug.

And if you did that, you would get 18,000 pphd people moved in buses in a busway tunnel rather than 4320 pphd moved in cars in a toll road tunnel, assuming peak hour saturation. That's 4x the people moved during peak times with a completed Northern Busway option than a toll road tunnel.

Of course, there would not be toll revenue, unless the Queensland Government wanted to pay a shadow toll to QIC each time a bus used the completed Northern busway extension. Which I do not recommend, but in theory it is also possible.

https://twitter.com/BrisbaneWestBUG/status/1668367408174870528

https://twitter.com/ozbob13/status/1668401314269908993

Northern Busway: Kedron to Bracken Ridge | Project Guide

https://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/projects/n/northern-busway--kedron-to-bracken-ridge/nbuswaykbrprojectguide.pdf

A true Metro Now!!!

Sent to all outlets:

Palaszczuk Government and Brisbane City Council Misleading Public on Gympie Road Tunnel

13th June 2023

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) has compared the plan for a Gympie Road tunnel based on the 1965 Brisbane Transportation Plan, to that of relying on doctors advice on smoking from the same era.



The world has moved on, but it seems the Palaszczuk Government and Brisbane City Council haven't and they continue to mislead the public.

Claims of "congestion-busting", "shorter commuter times" and "improving amenity and liveability for locals" is simply marketing spin and not backed by studies and research from around the world.

Engineers Australia in their 2021 Urban Transport Systems - A Transport Australia Society Discussion Paper clearly outline:

'Increasing capacity for urban road networks induces demand and is a major reason for increased traffic on the network. Evidence of induced traffic demand has existed for more than 20 years.
There is little evidence to demonstrate increasing road capacity to reduce traffic congestion improves economic performance in cities
This makes attempting to "bust traffic congestion" through road construction, self-defeating. In this context, Australia's past transport investment strategy may be seen as questionable.'

Even the simple facts also speak for themselves - roads are the lowest capacity options for mass transport.

A single road lane can carry a maximum of 1,800 vehicles per lane per hour. With two lanes heading in the peak direction, a Gympie Road tunnel will move a maximum of 4,320 people/hour/lane/direction.

This is four times less  capacity than a completed Northern Busway, which the Queensland Government's own marketing material states is capable of carrying 18,000 passengers/hour/direction.

The Minister for Transport, Mark Bailey, Treasure Cameron Dick and the Lord Mayor, Adrian Schrinner all need to explain why they continue to ignore the research and evidence that building "congestion-busting" roads just creates more congestion from the existing population for no economic benefit.

It certainly explains that over 30 years they have utterly failed to reduce car dependency despite their own transport strategies since the 1990's setting reduction targets of 20-30% below today's levels.  They keep doing the same thing over and over misleading the people on the outcomes.

The fact they refer to 1960's transport study like it is in some way still relevant in 2023 is like referring to the old smoking ads as a reason to continue smoking.

Reference:

Urban Transport Systems - A Transport Australia Society Discussion Paper - December 2021
https://www.engineersaustralia.org.au/sites/default/files/2022-01/Urban-Transport-Systems-TAS-Discussion-Paper-December-2021-revised.pdf

Robert Dow
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RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

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