RAIL - Back On Track Forum

Presently 4 bridges

Albert Bridge opened 1895, original lost in flood 1893.

Walter Taylor Bridge opened 1936.

Indooroopilly rail bridge  1957, part of Ipswich line quadruplication project.

Jack Pesche bridge  opened 1998.

The Albert bridge (suburban tracks) was originally a pedestrian and rail bridge until Walter Taylor bridge opened.

Brisbanetimes --> Brisbane's top secret prison cells to be protected in bridge plan

By the way, I strongly recommend going on one of the guided tours of the Walter Taylor Bridge. You can book on Brisbane Greeters website.

Couriermail Quest --> Witton Barracks bargain buy key for Council plans for second bridge

I hope the council do not get their grubby mitts on this. Parkland and road bridge are generally two opposing concepts. It would be some very nice parkland with the noisy road going through it.

Wouldn't the bridge run on the edge of the parkland only?

I'm not too concerned. That area should be a bus interchange though - might be useful if there were a change of administration down at City Hall. Dutton Park has a huge bridge and busway through it, doesn't seem like a big deal.

Let us hope if it goes ahead that there is a consideration of PT.

Brisbanetimes --> Communities wanting another bridge at Indooroopilly might need two: Schrinner $

QuoteAddressing traffic congestion around Indooroopilly would not only require a bridge over the Brisbane River but a second bridge over a rail line, according to Brisbane lord mayor Adrian Schrinner.

Cr Schrinner and federal Liberal MP Julian Simmonds have revealed plans for a new bridge beside the Walter Taylor Bridge to be complemented by a second bridge across the Indooroopilly rail line.

"As part of the study we are doing into the Walter Taylor Bridge and the surrounding corridor, one of the things that has become really clear is that if we were considering a bridge we would really need to consider two bridges," Cr Schrinner said on Wednesday. ...

Was there an image? A bridge over the rail line? How does that work/look?

Hi.
As my very first post I thought I'd jump right in at the "foamy" end of the pool. Being an old bloke I'm assuming that "foamy" might translate into "tell him he's dreamin'"! Anyway, a few years back I was looking at Indooroopilly station and decided I didn't like what I saw:slow track speeds; curved and narrow platforms with excessive horizontal and vertical gaps; 50 km/h speed restrictions on both river bridges; weight restrictions on the Albert Bridge, necessitating crossovers near Chelmer and Indooroopilly to allow freights to cross from the subs to the mains to use the Main Line bridge; the truly awful, IMO, circus-like station architecture; and as an aside, congestion on the adjacent Walter Taylor bridge. So I drew up a concept which, if nothing else, the group might find of some interest. The attached drawing is labelled so I hope it is fairly self explanatory. But basically, it depends on converting the Main Line railway bridge into a road bridge, thus providing, with the Walter Taylor bridge, four traffic lanes over the river. Not being an engineer I have no idea if this is a practical "solution", but a cursory glance suggests there might be sufficient horizontal and vertical clearance for two lanes.
The railway station and tracks would be straightened and moved over to the corridor the Council has preserved for its proposed road bridge. Track speeds would marginally improve from 50-70 km/h to 70-80 km/h on all tracks, and both railway bridges would be designed for current (future?) axle loads, enabling the crossovers to be removed, potentially. The station would have a 9m wide centre platform and two 5m wide side platforms.
Anyway, have a look...
I hope the attachment comes through!

Quote from: Derailed2 on February 25, 2022, 11:09:43 AM
Hi.
As my very first post I thought I'd jump right in at the "foamy" end of the pool. Being an old bloke I'm assuming that "foamy" might translate into "tell him he's dreamin'"! Anyway, a few years back I was looking at Indooroopilly station and decided I didn't like what I saw:slow track speeds; curved and narrow platforms with excessive horizontal and vertical gaps; 50 km/h speed restrictions on both river bridges; weight restrictions on the Albert Bridge, necessitating crossovers near Chelmer and Indooroopilly to allow freights to cross from the subs to the mains to use the Main Line bridge; the truly awful, IMO, circus-like station architecture; and as an aside, congestion on the adjacent Walter Taylor bridge. So I drew up a concept which, if nothing else, the group might find of some interest. The attached drawing is labelled so I hope it is fairly self explanatory. But basically, it depends on converting the Main Line railway bridge into a road bridge, thus providing, with the Walter Taylor bridge, four traffic lanes over the river. Not being an engineer I have no idea if this is a practical "solution", but a cursory glance suggests there might be sufficient horizontal and vertical clearance for two lanes.
The railway station and tracks would be straightened and moved over to the corridor the Council has preserved for its proposed road bridge. Track speeds would marginally improve from 50-70 km/h to 70-80 km/h on all tracks, and both railway bridges would be designed for current (future?) axle loads, enabling the crossovers to be removed, potentially. The station would have a 9m wide centre platform and two 5m wide side platforms.
Anyway, have a look...
I hope the attachment comes through!

I reckon it seems like a pretty reasonable idea (assuming the mainline bridge can handle 2 lanes of traffic, obviously)!

Welcome Derailed2. 

Interesting idea! 

Indooroopilly station is poorly located and doesn't have a bus interchange. I can't comment on the new proposed location, but the option to relocate it and have a bus interchange (whether closer to the river and a new bridge or further back nearer to Coonan St) should definitely be looked at.

If a new station is indeed the outcome, then it should have a very big bus interchange, capable of taking most of the buses off Moggill Road and allowing high volume flow of pax into the rail network.

If money is required, that can come from the Urban Congestion Fund.

You'd ideally have island platforms so the running lines can eventually be up-up-down-down.  All trains stop at Indooroopilly meaning that would make interchange easier, and minimise the amount of vertical transport needed (2 lifts instead of 3).

Design it so the bus interchange sits on top, a la Joondalup and Mandurah line stations - again to make it easier for people to interchange (only one vertical movement needed down or up).

The need to work with TMR. Move the station north to Bunnings. Road tunnel under the rail from Coonan street before Westminster Rd to the proposed bridge over the river. (2 lanes southbound lanes)

The new station can become a TOD with three new entries and exits onto Coonan, Westminster road and Allwood street.

Here is a map of the proposal

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=10Iq7TOtqqAuvWnbqJGY6tgItydUuEz77&usp=sharing

They are going to need to tunnel to the rivers edge to meet the proposed bridge landing as they have heritage listed the Barracks at Indooroopilly.--->https://amp.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/secretive-cells-safe-as-millions-preserve-indooroopilly-s-wwii-prison-20220223-p59z50.html

Quote from: verbatim9 on February 25, 2022, 14:37:08 PM
The need to work with TMR. Move the station north to Bunnings. Road tunnel under the rail from Coonan street before Westminster Rd to the proposed bridge over the river. (2 lanes southbound lanes)

The new station can become a TOD with three new entries and exits onto Coonan, Westminster road and Allwood street.

Here is a map of the proposal

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=10Iq7TOtqqAuvWnbqJGY6tgItydUuEz77&usp=sharing

Updated, Can be viewed by anyone now.

 

While I like the plan in concept, the big issue is that the Witton Barracks are heritage listed, so there's limited room to move the tracks to the east. The proposal, as it stands, goes right through the barracks.

Similarly, you wouldn't be able to go from a bridge into a tunnel while meeting the required flood immunity for the bridge, and even if you could, between Indooroopilly Junction shops and the river is only 400m - or at 1 in 100, a 4m rise. Not enough to get down into a rail tunnel.

Initially, my favoured option was to just put a bridge over from Station Rd / the derilect buildings there and have the bus platforms on top of the train station. It would provide a Class A ROW over the railway line for buses (which gets snarled quite easily) and makes a really easy connection. However, I'm sceptical if QR would ever allow that to be built over the corridor for various reasons. Additionally, BCC hasn't really set aside the land. 10 years ago the area was all single-unit housing. Now it's all high rises. Not very easy to resume if you need some land.

Queensland Parliament E-Petition

INTEGRATED TRANSPORT & FLOOD RESILIENCE SOLUTIONS FOR THE ELECTORATE OF MOGGILL AND WESTERN SUBURBS OF BRISBANE

Response > https://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/Work-of-the-Assembly/Petitions/Petition-Details?id=3763

Was wondering if it was getting a paint job as I crossed the river just the other day. Looking a little tired. Apparently these bridges can last more or less forever so long as they're maintained properly.

Couriermail --> Scaffold collapses under Walter Taylor Bridge $

QuoteEmergency services responded to a scaffold collapse underneath the Walter Taylor and Albert rail bridges on Tuesday night.

A major component of the scaffold appeared to give way above the Indooroopilly Riverwalk at Chelmer, in Brisbane's west, just before 7.15pm.

A Queensland Fire and Emergency spokeswoman said multiple crews were dispatched to the collapse.

While they were managing the situation, she said there was not much crews could do other than maintain scene safety.

"There was a construction site that had been erected under the bridge for painting, which then collapsed ... we're just waiting for the arrival of the scaffolding company to take over," she said at about 8.30pm.

Queensland Rail Head of South East Queensland Scott Riedel said the scaffolding belonged to a third party contractor.

"Queensland Rail is working with the contractor and emergency services to rectify this issue as soon as possible and will investigate how the incident occurred," he said.

He added that safety officers and Rail Operations Response Unit (RORU) were onsite at 9.30pm

"Rail traffic through the area is operating with speed restrictions, with minimal delays expected," he said. ...

Brisbanetimes --> The billion-dollar Brisbane bridge with no one yet to fund it

QuoteSix options for a new bridge between Chelmer and Indooroopilly, one of the city's worst traffic choke-points, have been laid out by Brisbane City Council.

Lord Mayor Adrian Schrinner said all levels of government would be asked to fund the bridge – with a "significant investment" from the council – once a decision was made.

Preliminary work by the council indicates a cost of between $800 million and $1.3 billion depending on the option chosen near Indooroopilly's existing Walter Taylor Bridge. ...

Examples of river crossing options at Indooroopilly, in Brisbane. BRISBANE CITY COUNCIL

BCC Chelmer to Indooroopilly river crossing pre-feasibility study

https://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/traffic-and-transport/roads-infrastructure-and-bikeways/road-and-intersection-projects/chelmer-to-indooroopilly-river-crossing-pre-feasibility-study

When the answers is a hammer everything looks like a nail.  God help anyone living near this area.  The same thinking as the Hale Street overpass.  Just totally destroys the urban surroundings so we can create more congestion.  BUT THERES NOT ENOUGH MONEY FOR TRANSPORT!!!! Yes there is but these bozos are spending it on creating more congestion.

I agree. I do live in the area and am thinking I'm going to have to lie down in front of bulldozers to stop this thing turning the entire Chelmer-Graceville-Sherwood-Corinda corridor into one giant traffic sewer, as well as obliterating any remaining character of Indooroopilly as anything other than a concrete jungle.

I'm not against an upgrade in general. It's a narrow road.

And there is already a four track railway that runs frequently during the day, so it's not a lack of PT.

Most traffic is also local which doesn't work favourably for federal funding as it doesn't appear to contribute much to people outside that area.

Perhaps they could consider a toll option again like the original bridge. It would shift demand to bus/train and pay for a new bridge...

Governments have a real bias to reaching for the concrete mixer before considering econ fixes because nobody wants to pay for use...

What about building a bridge elsewhere in the general area, not this highly constrained site and funneling traffic through an urban center?

Besides, isnt the centenary bridge being widened as well?

Quote from: #Metro on May 09, 2023, 11:56:35 AMI'm not against an upgrade in general. It's a narrow road.

The correct term is not "upgrade", it's "expansion". The bridge isn't even the bottleneck - the road system in Indooroopilly is. There is never a problem heading south. The only way to make the traffic "flow freely" is to make four free running lanes all the way down Coonan Street to Moggill Road, making most of Indooroopilly a concrete jungle of overpasses and tunnels. And once that's done, why wouldn't people driving down Ipswich Road go this way rather than Centenary Highway. Within a few years the lovely suburbs of Chelmer, Graceville, and Sherwood will be bisected by freeways. It's completely predictable and awful.

Quote from: Gazza on May 09, 2023, 12:01:45 PMWhat about building a bridge elsewhere in the general area, not this highly constrained site and funneling traffic through an urban center?

Besides, isnt the centenary bridge being widened as well?

Where would you build it? Why not just stop building more and more roads in established urban areas and instead make public and active transport more attractive. There is no real effort to run frequent rail feeder buses or have a connected and separated bike network. Maybe try those first?

Quote from: #Metro on May 09, 2023, 11:56:35 AMAnd there is already a four track railway that runs frequently during the day, so it's not a lack of PT.

It certainly is a lack of PT for many people as there are no effective feeder buses. For example, once you get to the southern end of Oxley or eastern Graceville it is more or less impossible to access the rail line without a car.

Exactly, its not the only bottleneck.
There are numerous sections where it drops to 1 lane on Oxley Rd, eg near zebra crossing at Verney Rd, at the Corinda low rail underpass, at Wharf St.
Inducing traffic by speeding up the bridge will trigger the need for upgrades through several suburbs.

Over $1b! Wild.

Quote from: OzGamer on May 09, 2023, 11:46:10 AMI agree. I do live in the area and am thinking I'm going to have to lie down in front of bulldozers to stop this thing turning the entire Chelmer-Graceville-Sherwood-Corinda corridor into one giant traffic sewer, as well as obliterating any remaining character of Indooroopilly as anything other than a concrete jungle.

With you OzGamer. I used to live in Graceville for a while, and lived in Darra right on Oxley for many years.
I like you, am very familiar with the area and the bridges.

We are fools, the quad railway track has a theoretical capacity of a 60 lane motorway/road.  We need to start using the assets we have properly, not destroy the character suburbs of Indooroopilly, Chelmer, Graceville, Sherwood, Corinda and Oxley. Even will impact Darra.

Each one of the options makes me want to scream! 

Survey results as reported in the BT article:

New bridge - 35 per cent
Widen the existing bridge - 19 per cent
Improve public transport - 18 per cent
Improve intersections on the northside - 15 per cent
Improve cycling facilities - 12 per cent
Improve the wider regional network - 4 per cent
Build a tunnel - 3 per cent
Leave the situation as it is - one per cent

Source: BCC Walter Taylor Bridge options study 2023.

I don't trust BCC surveys too much, but even this is far from a community big want.
Majority don't want it.

Quote from: Gazza on May 09, 2023, 12:01:45 PMWhat about building a bridge elsewhere in the general area, not this highly constrained site and funneling traffic through an urban center?

Besides, isnt the centenary bridge being widened as well?

+1

It's nutz !!

https://twitter.com/tamhus8/status/1655791835997167616?

Thoughts?

I'm not against a new car bridge. Two lanes each way isn't excessive, and the current one lane each way has been like that since 1936.

Majority of users are local and it's likely to stay that way.

Additional PT/AT improvements are possible, and any new road would also have to accommodate cyclists (Mark Bailey introduced this requirement).

Having better eScooter access at stations would help greatly as well.

A logical place to feed buses locally is Indooroopilly station. This is in part because express train services stop there. The bottleneck the existing bridge presents is an obstacle to doing that, particularly for interchanging passengers where the bus connection must be reliable.

Any unreliability in a connecting bus translates directly into a bus-train interchange penalty. The penalty exists because of the uncertainty in making the bus-train connection reliably.

Weighing these considerations, I don't have an objection to it. It's a project that is similar in nature and intent to the Summers Road Interchange upgrade IMHO.

The traffic is already chaotic and congested.  Any more traffic inducing ' upgrade ' is going to do just that. This is a good opportunity to change the failed paradigm of more of the same roads.  It is not going to end well here, at all.