RAIL - Back On Track Forum

Current LA public transport projects

It's an extensive list . They just seem to be ahead of the eight ball.

Metro.net--->https://www.metro.net/projects/

Quote from: aldonius on January 25, 2023, 11:24:34 AM

Quote from: verbatim9 on January 25, 2023, 11:22:47 AMI think LA is investing a lot more money into public transport than SEQ is.

Greater LA has like 20 million people so I'd hope they're investing more than SEQ!

Also to put things in perspective LA city has a population of 3.849 million (2021), which is only a third more than Brisbane.

Well if we're doing that, BCC-Land only has an estimated resident population of about 1.25 million people in it.  The rest of SEQ is a bit over double that.  There's no point in looking only at boundaries that are just lines on a map, it's the consolidated urban area that's relevant.

According to the ABS the combined area of SEQ has 3.8 million. They may calculate greater Brisbane with Moreton Logan and Ipswich but as per the stats you will find that Brisbane Metro area is around or above 2.1 million. Gold Coast (500,000) and Sunshine Coast coast (320,000) then you have Logan (360,000), Redlands (73,000) and Moreton (484,000) as well as the  Ipswich area (233,000).

If you add Toowoomba it's another 125,000.

You can see from the stats why Brisbane people get p%ssed  off when there isn't a proportionate amount of Public Transport  spending in Brisbane. In most cases through taxes and GST Brisbane people subsidise the transport infrastructure in SEQ unfortunately.

Furthermore, there is also a consensus where we have difficulty modernising our laws in respects to retail, liquor and daylight saving, as we are held back by doing so because of the regions.

But in saying that I am all in favour of subsidising faster electric rail  to OOL, MCY and Toowoomba, while also funding a better east west connection from Indooroopilly to UQ (busway extension), as well as an improved networked solution to the airport precinct and international cruise terminal.

If there was to be proportionate spending in Brisbane as against the rest of SEQ, it would be dramatically less than current.

The overwhelmingly 2 big line items in TransLink's budget are QR (where the most intensive service levels, including all the 15 minute off-peak headway areas, are entirely within BCC area) and BCC.  The rest is chicken feed. 

The Gold Coast for instance gets around $150 million per annum for trams and buses last time I checked split around 2:1 for buses:trams, plus a modest portion of whatever the QR spend is (I strongly doubt it would be more than say $100m of the total QR spend which is well over $1bn).  $250m against a budget which I believe is somewhere north of $1.8bn now for SEQ services (around 14%) does not correlate with the Gold Coast's ERP which is now around 650,000 (not 500,000) out of around 3.8m, or 17%.

Quote from: verbatim9 on January 25, 2023, 12:37:26 PMAlso to put things in perspective LA city has a population of 3.849 million (2021), which is only a third more than Brisbane.

As SurfRail has already pointed out, the boundaries of the "City of Los Angeles" bear even less resemblance to its metropolitan area than the boundaries of the "City of Brisbane" do. Thankfully for LA, its transport system recognises this.

Quote from: verbatim9 on January 25, 2023, 16:44:24 PMAccording to the ABS the combined area of SEQ has 3.8 million. They may calculate greater Brisbane with Moreton Logan and Ipswich but as per the stats you will find that Brisbane Metro area is around or above 2.1 million. Gold Coast (500,000) and Sunshine Coast coast (320,000) then you have Logan (360,000), Redlands (73,000) and Moreton (484,000) as well as the  Ipswich area (233,000).

If you add Toowoomba it's another 125,000.

If you wanna make up numbers why not add Gympie, Warwick, Jimna or Rocky?

Couriermail --> Ratepayers to pay for US and Canadian 'Olympic' tour for 10 mayors $

QuoteQueensland ratepayers will fork out an estimated $500,000 to send a group of mayors and their entourage on a lavish 11-day trip to the US and Canada.

The Olympic fact finding mission will include mayors who railed against expensive overseas tours along with a mayor who has lost her licence for drink driving.

The group will fly to Vancouver, San Francisco and Los Angeles, which is delivering the US's largest mass transit system ahead of its 2028 Olympic Games.

Mayors and council representatives from Brisbane, Logan, Redland, Moreton Bay, Toowoomba, Scenic Rim, Lockyer Valley, Noosa, Sunshine Coast and Somerset will depart this week for the trip which starts on Thursday.

Only Ipswich mayor Teresa Harding declined to take part in the international tour, which has raised concerns about costs and outcomes from three main ratepayer groups and community associations across the southeast. ...

https://twitter.com/judithkerr1/status/1620152546458505218

https://twitter.com/ozbob13/status/1620262476247089152

I struggle to see why the Mayors, of all people, need to go on this trip to learn about Public Transport when it is the State Government which runs the public transport in the state (for the most part; BCC is a special cookie). Complete waste of money when everything they will learn on this 'tour' can be learnt in a couple afternoons of research and conference calls with their US and Canada counterparts.

Quote from: RowBro on January 31, 2023, 13:52:22 PMI struggle to see why the Mayors, of all people, need to go on this trip to learn about Public Transport when it is the State Government which runs the public transport in the state (for the most part; BCC is a special cookie). Complete waste of money when everything they will learn on this 'tour' can be learnt in a couple afternoons of research and conference calls with their US and Canada counterparts.

Spot on!  +1



"Ipswich mayor Teresa Harding was the only SEQ mayor not to take up the US tour invitation claiming the objectives could be achieved from home."

Oh dear ...

At the end of this link is the itinerary for the SEQ Council of Mayors visit to the USA and Canada next month.

It is a publicly-available document from the Noosa Council website.

https://www.noosa.qld.gov.au/downloads/file/4088/2023-02-01-special-meeting-agenda

^ after reviewing the ' Official Meeting Program ' I am even more certain that the Mayor of Ipswich is correct.

  <

I think they could gain more insights by reading some of the comprehensive discussion threads by our informed members on this forum.

This trip is a a gross waste of public monies. I have lost confidence in the SEQ Council of Mayors. 

The State Government doesn't seem to be with it either.  Utter shambles looming ...

I think the trip will be useful.

First, the trip to Vancouver they can get info on the SkyTrain. Something like this could be a candidate to replace the busways in good time.

Secondly, they can learn about bus network planning and interchange in Vancouver. Something that BCC is averse to,  but other councils are probably open minded about.

Thirdly, they can visit LA and sit in traffic all day and learn about where roads-first policies are going to take them.

Bits that I'm not so keen on are the Wisk thing, I don't think AirTaxis will become a thing. Maybe as a high-end expensive luxury thing for the Gold Coast perhaps. But that is about it.

And the transpod sounds like 'Gadget Bahn' stuff. Similar to the hyperloop, so I can't really see much practicability in that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TransPod

We may get that Gondola for Tamborine Mountain and Mt Cootha after all, if all things go well.

Quote from: #Metro on January 31, 2023, 18:17:45 PMI think the trip will be useful.

First, the trip to Vancouver they can get info on the SkyTrain. Something like this could be a candidate to replace the busways in good time.

Secondly, they can learn about bus network planning and interchange in Vancouver. Something that BCC is averse to,  but other councils are probably open minded about.

Thirdly, they can visit LA and sit in traffic all day and learn about where roads-first policies are going to take them.

Bits that I'm not so keen on are the Wisk thing, I don't think AirTaxis will become a thing. Maybe as a high-end expensive luxury thing for the Gold Coast perhaps. But that is about it.

And the transpod sounds like 'Gadget Bahn' stuff. Similar to the hyperloop, so I can't really see much practicability in that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TransPod

None of these require a visit in person though. All of it is thoroughly researched and available through academic journals. I doubt seeing it in person will change their opinion. Additionally the councils, bar BCC, dont even have that much to do with Bus routes.

When they went to Singapore on a fact finding trip a few years ago, it resulted in implementing the Brisbane Metro bus project.

Vancouver has LRT as well as trolley buses. I don't think we will getting a Skyrail system like Vancouver's, although they maybe keen in the automation aspect of it all.

Vancouver also has a Gondola in which could be suitable on the Gold Coast here in Brisbane and Toowoomba.

Los Angeles has an underground metro system and LRT, plus high frequency buses and the passport bus to the cruise terminal that interchanges with LRT within the centre of Long Beach.

In addition, The  Los Angeles region will soon have HSR.
 

If our mayors are going window shopping, it is 'daddy' state government they will go to for the money. And 'mum' (the federal government).

Quote from: RowBroNone of these require a visit in person though. All of it is thoroughly researched and available through academic journals. I doubt seeing it in person will change their opinion. Additionally the councils, bar BCC, dont even have that much to do with Bus routes.

Because seeing is believing. Maybe they should visit Perth.

Quote5.2. When and where did the busway concept emerge?

The interviewees were unanimous that the busway was first put on the agenda around 1994 by Cr Maureen Hayes, who was then Chair of Traffic and Transport at Brisbane City Council. She was exploring with the Lord Mayor and council officers options for improving travel times and lessening congestion effects on the Brisbane Transport bus fleet.

The head of 5 Hornibrook Buslines, who run buses in nearby Redcliffe, had recently visited Ottawa's busway  system and encouraged the Council to visit as a side-trip to the 1994 American Public Transport Association (APTA) conference held in Boston. Seemingly impressed by what they saw in Ottawa, BCC commissioned the consultants McCormick Rankin to produce a preliminary report on the concept in 1995 (McCormick Rankin 1995).

Source:
How Did Brisbane Get it's Busways? Findings of a study into mode-choice decision-making in Brisbane Michael Tanko, Matthew Burke Australasian Transport Research Forum 2013 Proceedings 2 - 4 October 2013, Brisbane, Australia Publication website: http://www.patrec.org/atrf.aspx

Waste of public money.  Times have changed.  T

Quote from: #Metro on January 31, 2023, 18:17:45 PMI think the trip will be useful.

First, the trip to Vancouver they can get info on the SkyTrain. Something like this could be a candidate to replace the busways in good time.

Secondly, they can learn about bus network planning and interchange in Vancouver. Something that BCC is averse to,  but other councils are probably open minded about.

Thirdly, they can visit LA and sit in traffic all day and learn about where roads-first policies are going to take them.

Bits that I'm not so keen on are the Wisk thing, I don't think AirTaxis will become a thing. Maybe as a high-end expensive luxury thing for the Gold Coast perhaps. But that is about it.

And the transpod sounds like 'Gadget Bahn' stuff. Similar to the hyperloop, so I can't really see much practicability in that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TransPod

I don't.  Waste of public funds.  It is a junket IMHO.

Perth would be much better value.

Most of these Mayors will not be around in a few years in any case.

Long live the Ippy Mayor!!



"Ipswich mayor Teresa Harding was the only SEQ mayor not to take up the US tour invitation claiming the objectives could be achieved from home."

Quote from: RowBro on January 31, 2023, 20:13:03 PMNone of these require a visit in person though. All of it is thoroughly researched and available through academic journals. I doubt seeing it in person will change their opinion. Additionally the councils, bar BCC, dont even have that much to do with Bus routes.

^ Exactly. 

https://www.couriermail.com.au/questnews/redlands/ratepayers-to-pay-for-us-and-canadian-olympic-tour-for-10-mayors/news-story/27864c86afd24a1e04552d72cb749535

Quote... Logan Ratepayers Association president Rod Shaw said the trip was an expensive and futile exercise. ...

Right on Rod!

Quote from: verbatim9 on January 31, 2023, 20:31:17 PMWhen they went to Singapore on a fact finding trip a few years ago, it resulted in implementing the Brisbane Metro bus project.

crap!!  I met with the then Chair of Active & Public Transport (Cr. Schrinner) a number of times after the Paris Metro meltdown to discuss how big buses could be used to improve the busway and the mess at CC Vic Bridge etc.

Don't post rubbish please.

Couriermail --> Games funding standoff as leaders still to negotiate Olympics bill $

QuoteNegotiations over the 2032 Olympic Games costs and projects are set to continue on Friday when national cabinet meets, amid confirmation the federal government has still not reached a funding agreement with the state.

The Palaszczuk Government and Commonwealth have been at loggerheads over the funding split for the Olympic and Paralympic Games, with the Gabba redevelopment having been a key sticking point.

Since its election the Albanese Government has backed away from the 50-50 funding deal and joint oversight agency agreed to by the Morrison Government in April 2021. ...

Time is fleeting ...   

Quote from: Stillwater on January 31, 2023, 20:41:09 PMIf our mayors are going window shopping, it is 'daddy' state government they will go to for the money. And 'mum' (the federal government).

Hearing you Mr Stillwater.  What has the SEQ Council of Mayors actually done besides a web site and lots of ' plans '?

Nothing much really ...

1. Managed to get the State Government to support an Olympics Bid, which currently is moribund.  Poor IOC.

2. Fast rail .... Fizzzzzzzzzzzzz 

3. City deal .... Fizzzzzzzzzzzzz 

4. Sunshine Coast rail ... Fizzzzzzzzzzzzz 

Is there anything of real substance in the transport space?  Air taxis and transpods is just not relevant to mass transit.
The SEQ Council of Mayors have some sort of signed agreement with the airtaxi crowd. Done over like a dinner.

Well 1st class/business on a junket is some sort of achievement in this day and age, but confirms how irrelevant and out of touch they really are IMHO.

  

To be fair, the role of LGAs outside of BCC is to produce plans and nothing else.

Their role isn't to fund any PT infrastructure or contribute to, or operate any PT service.

The funds LGAs have provided towards PT projects in the past are 'ex-gratia'. Or in other words, discretionary.

They don't have a positive duty to fund PT in any form, except for bus stop shelters, unlike say local roads, where they have a positive obligation/duty to perform and fund works.

This is because PT is the sole domain of TMR/TransLink.

Now it is possible for LGAs to co-fund a portion of PT or operational costs. The State of North Rhine Westphalia in Germany does it with LGAs over multiple cities in a region similar in character to the Translink service area though their PT Co-ordination federation, VRR.

That said, I believe most members support the status quo of not involving LGAs in PT funding roles.

I wonder how many passenger drone thingies are required to shift the passenger numbers of one fast train, not even a very fast one? And where will these air taxis park -- take off / land? (More work for consultants, no doubt.) It is madness to build more and more lanes on the M1 carpark, then give up and build a new road (Coomera Connector) and then, when you can't nudge the cars beyond walking speed, say: "I know, let's go to air taxis. George Jetson had one, so it must work. Let's go to America and get a photo opportunity." (The 'photo op' is an item in the itinerary.) The C-M will go apesh@t with a front page story and headline .... "Brisbane enters the space age!" Rail? ... sooo 19th Century, eh.

1962.  This was a popular TV cartoon show in the 1960s.

Sunshine Coast News --> Details revealed for 6000-seat indoor sports centre and expanded 20,000-capacity stadium

Quote... Sunshine Coast Council, in conjunction with Brisbane 2032 Games delivery partners, will bring a new international indoor sports centre that will have capacity for 11 courts and the ability to convert to a 6000-seat show court.

It is expected to be running in 2027 and funded by the Australian and Queensland governments under their Brisbane 2032 Olympic and Paralympic Games funding agreement, with the cost to be determined once the design process is completed. ...

https://twitter.com/ozbob13/status/1620777275095646209

https://twitter.com/ozbob13/status/1620778231430512641

https://twitter.com/ozbob13/status/1620782525970001921

Brisbanetimes --> Still no agreement on Olympic funding

QuoteMore than a year and a half since Brisbane was awarded the 2032 Olympic Games, a funding agreement between the Queensland and federal governments has not been reached.

Former prime minister Scott Morrison had agreed in principle to a 50-50 funding split between the two governments almost two years ago, before Brisbane was confirmed as host.

But a successful bid and a change in government later, funding has been a sticking point, with Queensland's insistence on the Gabba as the Olympic stadium causing some consternation in federal ranks. ...

^

https://twitter.com/ozbob13/status/1621364936416071681

https://twitter.com/ozbob13/status/1621368408196681728

The Federal Government should put its money into worthwhile Olympic projects, such as faster rail and rail network extensions, not the 'Gabba Stadium, which will pay for itself over time. The Olympic agreement doesn't mean that the feds and the state have to share costs for each and every line item of Games infrastructure according to some rigid percentage divide.

It is sobering to contemplate that Brisbane only got electric trains because a Labor Whitlam Government agreed to bankroll the conversion. Electric trains for SEQ is a lasting 'legacy project' that has served the region well

Is it too late to give the games to Perth?

Perth Stadium


They even have game day bus service stops already pre-marked out just like rail bus replacement.

Then there is RAC Arena / Perth Arena, which is like South Bank Piazza on Steroids:

Can do basketball concerts one day, music concert performances the next.


The Council of Mayors need to get on a plane to Perth and check it out. They will be shocked to see their own buses and trains running around the city.

Perth would have been a much wiser choice than Brisbane IMHO ... however the die is cast 

Couriermail --> Brisbane 2032 Games: No funding agreement at national cabinet $

QuoteThe Brisbane 2032 Olympic and Paralympic Games need to leave a legacy which benefits all of Queensland, not just the capital, Prime Minister Anthony Albanese has said as funding negotiations continue.

Mr Albanese and Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk had not reached an agreement on the funding split between the state and Commonwealth after national cabinet on Friday, but the Prime Minister said to "watch this space".

The state and federal governments have been at loggerheads over the funding split since the election, after Mr Albanese made it clear he would not accept the 50-50 deal entered into by the then Coalition government in April 2021.

Ms Palaszczuk said she would be speaking to people shortly about a funding deal with the Federal Government for the 2032 Games.

"The Prime Minister's a very firm supporter of the Olympics in Brisbane and across Queensland," she said. ...

https://twitter.com/ozbob13/status/1621508522776338433

https://twitter.com/SEQMayors/status/1621724746311409666

https://twitter.com/ozbob13/status/1621747132360429568

Disaster!

This is not going to scale, so if it is introduced, will have a very niche market.

For example, island hopping off the coast.

It is not a substitute for PT because at 4 pax it won't scale.

Also, another term for 'flying car' is helicopter. These have been around in some form for about 100 years, this is just another helicopter really.

Instead of pursuing a high tech fancy, the council of SEQ Mayors would be better off buying a ticket to Perth.

^ +1