RAIL - Back On Track Forum

Brisbanetimes --> Bring on the Games: Brisbane's 2032 Olympic chief set to be announced

QuoteOne of the most important people in the race to the Brisbane Olympics will be announced on Tuesday morning by Games 2032 president Andrew Liveris.

The chief executive of the Organising Committee for the Olympics and Paralympics is a pivotal role, and the announcement will come as a sign that preparations are finally accelerating.

BOCOG has been searching for the appropriate person for the role since midyear. Applications closed on August 19. ...

If the successful nominee is Paul Scurrah, it might make for an interesting choice -- particularly given his past experience in transport. Effective public transport will be key to the Games success.

When did Paul Scurrah do effective transport?

Its an academic argument. Welcome Cindy Hook.

The former boss of Deloitte Asia-Pacific, Cindy Hook, has been appointed chief executive of the organising committee to deliver the Brisbane 2032 Olympic and Paralympic Games.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-12-13/qld-olympic-paralympic-games-brisbane-2032-ceo-announced/101763074

Hopefully she had read here own companies reports such as

https://www2.deloitte.com/au/en/pages/economics/articles/value-rail.html

https://www2.deloitte.com/us/en/insights/industry/public-sector/smart-mobility-trends-bike-commuting.html

https://www2.deloitte.com/au/en/blog/shaping-future-cities/2019/divorcing-growth-car.html

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/780868/future_of_mobility_final.pdf

https://twitter.com/ozbob13/status/1602669924413063168

Couriermail --> Gabba deal near? State presses ahead with stadium revamp $

QuoteLetters reveal work is pressing ahead on the $1 billion Gabba redevelopment for the 2032 Brisbane Olympic and Paralympic Games, despite the 50-50 funding deal with the federal government still being up in the air.

But the release of plans for what the Gabba redesign will look like have been delayed until the new year, despite a promise last month the would be revealed within weeks.

Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk said she was very confident Queensland would strike a 50/50 Olympic infrastructure funding deal with the federal government, hinting at potential announcements when Prime Minister Anthony Albanese was next in town.

It has also been revealed construction is unlikely to start on the Raymond Park athletics warm-up fields until just two years before the Games are set to start. ..

This is shaping up to be a project similar to Cross River Rail. What is CRR – just a tunnel or plus, plus all the add-ons?

Costing an estimated $2.5 billion, with no funding locked in from the federal government, the Queensland Government proposes demolishing The Gabba Stadium to its foundations then rebuilding it to achieve an extra 10,000 to 12,000 seats more than what's there already. Oh, and we should add the cost of a new East Brisbane School, or upgrade of surrounding schools to accommodate the student population displaced. So is that an Olympic Games cost or a Department of Education cost, accommodated within a separate budget?

Most people would consider demolition of The Gabba Stadium and its rebuild as a 'new' project. Yet the state government doesn't list it as one of six new venues planned for 2032, but rather places it on a list of eight venues to be 'upgraded'.

There seems to be significant local opposition to the 'Gabba plan.

Political peril best describes the situation they have cooked up for themselves now. 

Sure, they can push through with it but probably costly in terms of electoral outcomes at a local level.

Increasingly, I am thinking the Olympic plan was all on whim and not much reality ...

Still haven't sorted out a proper public transport authority.  We have BCC conjuring up a ' Metro ' which is just bus rapid transit. 

Not going to end well at this rate ... 

https://twitter.com/SEQMayors/status/1605333267980648448

Brisbane 2032 Olympic and Paralympic Games

> https://www.qld.gov.au/about/Brisbane2032

Brisbanetimes --> Qld's population pendulum forecast to swing to an even greater Brisbane

QuoteQueensland's population is expected to grow by more than 16 per cent by the time Brisbane hosts the Olympic Games in 2032, new federal government data shows.

And the population spread in Australia's most decentralised state is tipped to sway towards the city, with most Queenslanders expected to live in Greater Brisbane by the time the Olympic flame is lit at the Gabba. ...

https://twitter.com/ozbob13/status/1610632942564569088

Couriermail --> State says federal funding negotiations why no public plans for Gabba redevelopment $

QuoteThe state government has blamed funding negotiations with the Commonwealth for the lack of public plans for the $1bn Gabba redevelopment, ahead of the Brisbane 2032 Olympic and Paralympic Games.

Two months after Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk pledged Queenslanders would see the plans "in a couple of weeks or so", no details of what the revamped stadium could look like, or how much it will cost, have been released.

The Courier-Mail understands the plans were flagged to be made public by Christmas, but that timeline was shelved as talks with the federal government have dragged on. ...

 

https://twitter.com/ozbob13/status/1610998526976360453

Does it seem that planning and preparation for the 2032 games is proceeding at a snails pace, with a lack of dynamism and purpose?

It does to me ... 

The C-M article goes on to quote Brisbane Lord Mayor Adrian Schrinner, saying he lies awake at night worried at a lack of progress on Olympic infrastructure plans. Pitched to the IOC was an 'Olympic coordinating authority' that Cr Schrinner says has yet to be rolled out for the region. And the C-M has him saying: "That entity still has not been formed and, unfortunately, the different levels of government can't agree on what that entity will look like. The co-ordinating authority ... should have been formed first and should be under way first."

Indeed, that should be the case, given the long lead times for major infrastructure projects. In that context, a 10 years deadline really isn't all that far away.

While the coordinating authority is stalled, what we have is politicians and their 'people' making significant decisions, such as the Gabba reconstruction. It is clear that Queensland politicians, as is their want, are making all the important decisions up front, unencumbered by effective business case analysis and appropriate scrutiny, before handing the whole sh%tcan over to a coordinating authority that will be hampered by those ill-advised decisions not made by the coordinating authority members themselves. Queensland politicians think it is easier to make decisions without professional public servants giving them all the facts first. Their imperative is to grab a headline -- advised by a bank of PR advisers with an eye to the next state election in October 24. ("Lets organise a whole lot of ribbon-cutting ceremonies in the month before the election.")

What's proposed is that the Gabba ground be levelled and then rebuilt at a cost of $2 billion to fit an extra 10,000 seats inside – bugger any feasible alternatives being consider alongside this alternative and before an announcement is made.

Once again we are seeing the tired argument from Queensland Labor, essentially, that 'stuff is not happening in Queensland because the feds aren't giving us money for projects we are stitching them up for in advance'. That is how the feds ended up not funding any of CRR.

And the Queensland Governments preferred means of communication to the federal government is through the pages of the C-M and preferably 'big picture' emptiness depicted on the front page.

The structures of government have yet to be established and made to work in order to deal with the Olympic Games infrastructure and legacy projects in a sensible, logical and orderly way. It is almost as though State Labor wants to make a mess of the process so that the only way it can be solved is for overpriced infrastructure to be wacked up at the last minute at enormous cost to the taxpayer. And that may not be the appropriate solution because of the decisions Dr Miles and others are making now, without the wisdom of best sensible advice, based on all the pertinent facts.

^

Couriermail 7th January 2023 page 7

Crisafulli warns of Games 'vanity'




 

https://twitter.com/7NewsBrisbane/status/1612742844435034113

The agreement to stage the Olympic Games was signed by the IOC Committee and the Queensland Government, not involving the federal government.

Subsequently, the feds signed up to go halves on 'critical infrastructure', not the whole shebang. Furthermore, the Commonwealth involvement in funding was dependent on an Organising Committee being formed first.

Dr Miles and Co. are making critical decisions before an Organising Committee has been formed and on the assumption that big ticket items such as The 'Gabba destruction and rebuild is 'critical infrastructure'. Given its ongoing role after the games, it might not be considered 'critical' as its cost could be recouped through user charges for decades after the Games are held in Brisbane. Things like the International Broadcast Centre probably would be critical because that comes down after the Games (and bits distributed and re-purposed).

Here are some sobering facts. A 2002 NSW government report on the financial contributions to the Sydney Games said the Australian Government contributed only 8.2 per cent of the construction costs of the Olympic facilities and infrastructure in Sydney. The bulk of the infrastructure costs were borne by the NSW Government.

 

https://twitter.com/brisbanetimes/status/1613657075418112016

Re Queensland confident Canberra will pay half of growing Gabba works bill

I'm confident Miss Bikini International will be at the same bar I go to on Saturday night AND go crazy for me, as soon as I walk in......now, about a thing called "reality".....     

Brisbanetimes --> Massive Gabba rebuild bill could now fall squarely on Queensland taxpayers

QuoteQueensland may have to pay the full cost to rebuild the Gabba for the 2032 Olympics as part of a funding deal with the federal government, which is yet to commit to the Morrison-era promise of an equal split on the Games' total infrastructure bill.

Brisbane Times understands the proposal put forward by the federal government to its Queensland Labor counterparts may excise the Gabba from any funding deal but make it up, at least in part, by taking on other projects, possibly the yet-to-be-built swimming venue known as Brisbane Live. ...

 

https://twitter.com/ozbob13/status/1615713214234497030

Quote from: ozbob on January 19, 2023, 00:06:26 AMBrisbanetimes --> Massive Gabba rebuild bill could now fall squarely on Queensland taxpayers

QuoteQueensland may have to pay the full cost to rebuild the Gabba for the 2032 Olympics as part of a funding deal with the federal government, which is yet to commit to the Morrison-era promise of an equal split on the Games' total infrastructure bill.

Brisbane Times understands the proposal put forward by the federal government to its Queensland Labor counterparts may excise the Gabba from any funding deal but make it up, at least in part, by taking on other projects, possibly the yet-to-be-built swimming venue known as Brisbane Live. ...

 

Honestly, I wish they would just decide to do the obvious thing and just use the Gabba as is for the opening and closing ceremonies and Carrara for the athletics. Then we could just save the $2BN or whatever it is.

^ +1 OzGamer  ...

Missed it by thaaaat much.

Quote from: OzGamer on January 19, 2023, 21:28:33 PM

Quote from: ozbob on January 19, 2023, 00:06:26 AMBrisbanetimes --> Massive Gabba rebuild bill could now fall squarely on Queensland taxpayers

QuoteQueensland may have to pay the full cost to rebuild the Gabba for the 2032 Olympics as part of a funding deal with the federal government, which is yet to commit to the Morrison-era promise of an equal split on the Games' total infrastructure bill.

Brisbane Times understands the proposal put forward by the federal government to its Queensland Labor counterparts may excise the Gabba from any funding deal but make it up, at least in part, by taking on other projects, possibly the yet-to-be-built swimming venue known as Brisbane Live. ...

 

Honestly, I wish they would just decide to do the obvious thing and just use the Gabba as is for the opening and closing ceremonies and Carrara for the athletics. Then we could just save the $2BN or whatever it is.

No fan of the current proposal especially the loss of school and parkland down the road.

The reality for the Gabba Stadium I believe is it needs to be upgraded just to keep it up to date/customer expectations.

Don't think that needs a rebuild but certainly a major upgrade/refurbishment.

Why not rebuild at QSAC permanently and leave Gabba as Round Oval and spend left over on converting Busway to a proper Metro including QSAC station. Kind of makes CRR not such a centre piece but it was never just for Olympics anyway!

Quote from: Jonno on January 20, 2023, 07:05:17 AMNo fan of the current proposal especially the loss of school and parkland down the road.

The reality for the Gabba Stadium I believe is it needs to be upgraded just to keep it up to date/customer expectations.

Don't think that needs a rebuild but certainly a major upgrade/refurbishment.

Why not rebuild at QSAC permanently and leave Gabba as Round Oval and spend left over on converting Busway to a proper Metro including QSAC station. Kind of makes CRR not such a centre piece but it was never just for Olympics anyway!

The current Gabba structure could be upgraded and modernised but it doesn't need a complete rebuild or change of footprint. The main problem with it is that the ground area and warm up facilities are not sufficient for Olympic Track and Field, but Carrara absolutely is, and it can have a temporary seating upgrade for the games.

The crazy thing is this is exactly what the IOC suggested but the government decided it had to do this complete tear down and rebuild thing.

Quote from: OzGamer on January 20, 2023, 09:33:49 AM

Quote from: Jonno on January 20, 2023, 07:05:17 AMNo fan of the current proposal especially the loss of school and parkland down the road.

The reality for the Gabba Stadium I believe is it needs to be upgraded just to keep it up to date/customer expectations.

Don't think that needs a rebuild but certainly a major upgrade/refurbishment.

Why not rebuild at QSAC permanently and leave Gabba as Round Oval and spend left over on converting Busway to a proper Metro including QSAC station. Kind of makes CRR not such a centre piece but it was never just for Olympics anyway!

The current Gabba structure could be upgraded and modernised but it doesn't need a complete rebuild or change of footprint. The main problem with it is that the ground area and warm up facilities are not sufficient for Olympic Track and Field, but Carrara absolutely is, and it can have a temporary seating upgrade for the games.

The crazy thing is this is exactly what the IOC suggested but the government decided it had to do this complete tear down and rebuild thing.

+1. The IOC officially opposed the Gabba and preferred to use Carrara. QLD gov completely ignored it, for really nothing more than a vanity project.

For the $3bn the Gabba would cost, you could completely rebuild QSAC, AND I daresay build an underground extension of the busway from Griffith station to QSAC. Not as good as a railway station but close. bonus points for tunnel stubs to lead to Nathan/Mains Road corridor in the long term. Since the QSAC site is much less constrained, a stadium rebuild there would be much cheaper than Gabba

Why would Gabba redevlopment cost $2.5 billion? New SFS in Sydney was only $828 million. I undestand the Gabba would be more than that, but TRIPLE? Ridiculous.

Not really sure what the long-term viability of rebuilding QSAC would be, either. Who would be the tenant? At least the Gabba has two—Lions & Queensland Cricket, Carrara has GC Suns, who would QSAC have?

Quote from: achiruel on January 22, 2023, 06:36:09 AMWhy would Gabba redevlopment cost $2.5 billion? New SFS in Sydney was only $828 million. I undestand the Gabba would be more than that, but TRIPLE? Ridiculous.

Not really sure what the long-term viability of rebuilding QSAC would be, either. Who would be the tenant? At least the Gabba has two—Lions & Queensland Cricket, Carrara has GC Suns, who would QSAC have?

Admittedly there is not much benefit for the long term, it would likely be a white elephant (much like QSAC is currently)...

As for the high cost, aside from the fact it requires a complete demolish and rebuild from scratch, there's a number of other rumoured factors floating about:
- East Brisbane state school needs to be demolished and rebuilt in a new location
- The footprint would go completely over Stanley and Vulture streets, requiring them to be turned into a tunnel (which would likely also require some resumptions of the properties on those sections of street)
- Raymond Park is not big enough for the warm up track and many nearby properties would need to be resumed

Brisbane Times--->https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/games-changer-seq-mayors-bound-for-north-america-on-olympic-fact-finding-trip-20230124-p5cf6h.html

Seq Mayors heading to LA and Vancouver for public transport and housing hints.

Well at least LA has a proper Metro and LRT. They also have a networked public transport solution to get people to and from cruise ships at Long Beach.

In terms of housing we all know  Vancouver did well because they increased their density over a 20 year period by going up and not wide.

https://twitter.com/ozbob13/status/1617894637913636866

 

https://twitter.com/ozbob13/status/1617895982217457666

SEQs' layout is very similar to LAs'. I think LA is investing a lot more money into public transport than SEQ is.

I have travelled on their subway network and it's fast and efficient. They have also many HF bus lines with internal next stop information screens to help navigate where you are.

Their new LRT lines are very good as well.


They are is also in the progress of getting HSR.

So they are well on their way of hosting a successful games (public transport wise).

Meanwhile Vancouver does have an extensive inner city public transport network as well as new LRT lines. They also have Gondolas which is an added bonus. I think their should be a Gondola that goes to the western view point of Mt Cootha with a stop at the eastern viewpoint. The station could start at the Toowong  bus depot with a stop at the Botanical Gardens before heading up the mountain.

Quote from: verbatim9 on January 25, 2023, 11:22:47 AMI think LA is investing a lot more money into public transport than SEQ is.

Greater LA has like 20 million people so I'd hope they're investing more than SEQ!

edit: correction: 12 to 13 million for the MSA. Still a lot more than SEQ.

Quote from: aldonius on January 25, 2023, 11:24:34 AM

Quote from: verbatim9 on January 25, 2023, 11:22:47 AMI think LA is investing a lot more money into public transport than SEQ is.

Greater LA has like 20 million people so I'd hope they're investing more than SEQ!

That's irrelevant, because SEQ having a smaller population has respectively far worse traffic congestion that outweighs big cities like LA. It should not be that way.