RAIL - Back On Track Forum

One of the earlier 2018 Comm Games proposals was to have one or both ceremonies at a beach.

Is there a reason the ceremonies couldn't be held in Suncorp? It's much better set up for live events, and meets the capacity requirements (52,500 punters). I know it's not typical to do it in a square stadium, but it's also not typical to do it on the river Seine.

Athletics could then be in Carrara. Hell surely converting the Gabba temporarily for track and field wouldn't be impossible right? Or is the cricket pitch too small?

https://twitter.com/railbotforum/status/1564010883533000704

https://twitter.com/ozbob13/status/1576220928865730560

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2032 Olympics & Public Transport - No, there is not plenty of time ...

2nd October 2022

AECOM cities programme leader Andrew Jones has urged Brisbane to make public transport a priority in the 10 years to 2032 (1). Something RAIL Back On Track  has been calling for well before the Brisbane 2032 Olympic and Paralympic Games campaign was a twinkle in the eye of the SEQ Council of Mayors. State Government Ministers think there is plenty of time, there isn't when the infrastructure deficits are considered.

Prioritising Public Transport is a no-brainer for moving large volumes of people around South East Queensland for the Brisbane 2032 Olympic and Paralympic Games.  But it also a no-brainer for moving people around the region each and every day of the year not just for major events.

Transport Planners and even the OECD have been calling for the prioritisation of active and public transport (i.e. funding it before funding road widenings and new freeways) because it better for the economy, local, State and Federal finances, our health and well-being, our environment, safety, jobs ... ok, everything.

Brent Toderian, the former City Planner for Vancouver and advisor to Oslo and other cities on their Olympic bids, noted "Successful multimodal cities aren't just about what your city starts doing — i.e., funding transit — it's what you stop doing — i.e., widening roads. Brent Toderian: Don't "Balance" Modes — Prioritize Walking, Biking, and Transit (2).

With less than 10 years left before the Opening Ceremonies, all levels of Government are still spending the majority of their transport budgets widening roads and building freeways, bypasses or tunnels.  Recently the Brisbane City Council said a $9.5 billion dollar road tunnel was their first priority for the North West Transport Corridor.  The State and Federal Governments are widening various freeways and planning to construct more with public transport relegated to "when there is enough demand". Certainly not prioritising it.

RAIL Back On Track  has been very supportive of all the major active and public transport projects across the region but many of these current projects remain light years off "prioritising" public transport.

If we are to prioritise active and public transport in the lead up to 2032 Olympics then all new major road expansions or new freeways, bypasses, road tunnels, including those in the planning/early works stage, must be shelved and plans for active and public transport prioritised.

RAIL Back On Track calls for the following list of representative public transport projects to be prioritised for the Brisbane 2032 Olympic and Paralympic Games in addition to those already underway. This list is not exclusive or a priority order.  Proper consideration needs to be given to creating a proper public transport authority to deliver these projects.  We suggest an authority modelled on the Public Transport Authority of Western Australia ( https://www.pta.wa.gov.au ). A division within a formed 'Public Transport Authority of Queensland' should be a Level Crossing Project Division to start addressing the serious delays with level crossing removals - advice should be sought from Victoria, the lead authority in level crossing removals. 

* SEQ Bus Network Redesign and 24hr Transit Lanes on our Major Roads
* 15 minute train frequency (6am-9pm) across Greater Brisbane stations
* ETCS - L2 Entire Citytrain Network
* Beerburrum to Nambour Rail Upgrade
* Direct Sunshine Coast Line fast rail
* Gold Coast Light Rail Stage 4  Burleigh to Coolangatta
* Varsity Lakes to Coolangatta Rail Extension
* North West Rail Line - Brisbane to Strathpine
* Doomben line upgrade and extension to Northshore Hamilton Athletes Village
* Manly to Cleveland line upgrade
* Sandgate to Shorncliffe line upgrade
* Norman St Bridge Ipswich
* Open level crossing removal projects
* Springfield to Ripley Rail Extension
* Salisbury to Flagstone Rail Extension
* SE Busway Springwood to Hyperdome and Loganlea Extension
* Kuraby to Dutton Park Quadruplication & Fast Rail
* Toowoomba Fast Rail
* Fully Accessible Network
* Redevelopment of urban/suburban Park 'n' Rides into vibrant, active public spaces and mixed use developments including station upgrades
* Separated bike lanes on all our major roads (3)

This is not an issue of funding, it is an issue of redirecting the funding towards active and public transport with urgent priority.

References:

1. Brisbane Olympics should prioritise public transport, says London Olympics planner
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-25/london-olympics-planner-says-public-transport-a-priority/101370458

2. Don't "Balance" Modes — Prioritize Walking, Biking, and Transit
https://denver.streetsblog.org/2017/02/09/brent-toderian-dont-balance-modes-prioritize-walking-biking-and-transit/

3. 3 Things You Need to Know About Bike-Transit Integration
https://blog.altaplanning.com/3-things-you-need-to-know-about-bike-transit-integration-130d477568c6

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

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https://twitter.com/railbotforum/status/1576287740207181824

QuoteKuraby to Dutton Park Quadruplication & Fast Rail

Just a question about this one Ozbob. There are currently 3 tracks between Kuraby and Park Road IIRC.

Are 4 tracks required in this area to achieve 15 minute trains all day in both directions on the Gold Coast line? Or will CRR and Logan-Gold Coast Faster Rail be sufficient?

 

This has been discussed before.  The original concept of Cross River Rail was for the tunnels to go through to Yeerongpilly, which would have been 4 tracks + dual track.  The present half baked CRR really is dumping onto a bottle neck at the southern portal at Dutton Park. Reliable frequent express running to the Gold Coast is going to be compromised particularly counter peaks.  There really is no ability to ramp up train paths.  Kuraby to Beenleigh quad was always going to happen, but they do need a quad Dutton Park through to Beenleigh.  You then have a pair of express tracks, and the line pair for the all stations, limited express patterns.  15 minute frequency will not be enough in time. 

This was a good post by BrizCommuter July 2020

Cross River Rail - Southside Bottleneck

> http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com/2020/07/cross-river-rail-southside-bottleneck.html

Time to start planning the 4th path along existing line as tunnelling would be expensive and disruptive!

Yerronga seems to be the toughest/most constrained part! Might lose a bit road/park n ride and drop off zone but no big loss!

QuoteTime to start planning the 4th path along existing line as tunnelling would be expensive and disruptive!

Yerronga seems to be the toughest/most constrained part! Might lose a bit road/park n ride and drop off zone but no big loss!

Dutton Park to Kuraby (Logan-Gold Coast Faster Rail II?) https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=14836.0

Quote from: timh on September 30, 2022, 20:59:07 PMIs there a reason the ceremonies couldn't be held in Suncorp? It's much better set up for live events, and meets the capacity requirements (52,500 punters). I know it's not typical to do it in a square stadium, but it's also not typical to do it on the river Seine.

Athletics could then be in Carrara. Hell surely converting the Gabba temporarily for track and field wouldn't be impossible right? Or is the cricket pitch too small?

No, no reason at all. Suncorp would be an excellent venue for opening and closing ceremonies - the atmosphere in there when full is amazing. It is still Queensland's premier stadium.

QuoteNo, no reason at all. Suncorp would be an excellent venue for opening and closing ceremonies - the atmosphere in there when full is amazing. It is still Queensland's premier stadium.

If it works, save $1 billion. Seems like a good idea?   

(PS: That is $1 billion we can spend on new rail lines, quad track etc etc...)

Update: I know the Queensland Government wants to spruik Cross River Rail, The Gabba etc, but Suncorp Stadium already has a train station at Milton.

I think it would be folly to push on with the 'Gabba over development.  Facilities in broad scope already exist.

====

Queensland Parliament

https://documents.parliament.qld.gov.au/tableOffice/questionsAnswers/2022/955-2022.pdf

Question on Notice
No. 955
Asked on 1 September 2022

MS F SIMPSON asked the Deputy Premier and Minister for State Development,
Infrastructure, Local Government and Planning and Minister Assisting the Premier on
Olympics Infrastructure (HON S MILES) –

QUESTION:

Will the Deputy Premier advise the milestones that will be achieved in the 2022–23
financial year for the Gabba redevelopment project?

ANSWER:

Work to confirm project scope, costs and timeframes, including documentation to
support an investment decision, is ongoing as part of a project validation report process
for the venue. This work is also subject to the ongoing 50:50 funding negotiations with
the Australian Government.

It is expected that the project validation report will be completed in 2023.

https://twitter.com/AUSOlympicTeam/status/1577508324572004352

====


Brisbane 2032 goes to market for first major contract

> https://www.olympics.com.au/news/brisbane-2032-goes-to-market-for-first-major-contract/

President of the Brisbane 2032 Olympic and Paralympic Games, Andrew Liveris, has used his maiden speech to announce the Organising Committee's first major contract is now on the market to deliver the Brisbane 2032 brand. ...

Quote from: ozbob on October 05, 2022, 00:14:41 AMI think it would be folly to push on with the 'Gabba over development.  Facilities in broad scope already exist.
 ...

Brisbanetimes --> Brisbane Olympics supremo casts doubt over Gabba

QuoteBrisbane's Olympics supremo has conceded the billion-dollar plan to demolish and rebuild the Gabba could prove too costly, but was confident organisers could pivot to deliver an alternative venue.

In his first major speech as president of the 2032 Organising Committee of the Olympic Games, Andrew Liveris also fired the starter's gun on the branding development he said would underpin the Games and make Brisbane "the Barcelona of Australia". ...

 

https://twitter.com/LiverisAndrew/status/1577731954363207681

Couriermail --> Brisbane 2032 boss wants Gabba 'done right' ahead of Games $

QuoteThe boss of Brisbane 2032 has thrown his support behind the Gabba being a "centre of gravity" for the city and the games – but only if it's "done right".

Speaking exclusively with The Courier-Mail and Nova's Toward the Games podcast, Brisbane 2032 Olympics and Paralympic Games Committee (OCOG) president Andrew Liveris said a cost blowout to rebuild the Gabba would be critically examined, but stressed the value of the transformed stadium couldn't be underestimated. ...

 

^ Contrast the above with the earlier Brisbane.Times that said: "Brisbane's Olympics supremo has conceded the billion-dollar plan to demolish and rebuild the Gabba could prove too costly, but was confident organisers could pivot to deliver an alternative venue."

This suggests the pollies have been in his ear, asking him to modify his stance ... 'he stressed the value of the transformed stadium couldn't be underestimated.'

In one report, Mr Liveris was proposing a pivot to an alternative venue, now he is saying there is value in the Gabba transformation as an Olympics 'centre of gravity', whatever the cost.

Things are shaping up for a costly Games.

^ on the money Mr Stillwater.  Shaping up to be a diabolical effort this! 

What's wrong with using Suncorp Stadium?

It is about the right size and already has a train station.

The Gabba proposal is very costly and the bus stop (which is more of a want than a need IMHO) will cost $500 million

^

I get the distinct impression they are not serious about rail to Maroochydore. 

( which to me is not surprising, they are struggling to remove a few LXs and upgrade the Sunshine Coast line ... )

Premier basically ignores the question from Owen Jacques (ABC Sunshine Coast) about heavy rail into Maroochydore.
Talks only about the growth and the Bruce Highway.

There will be no worthwhile legacy without the transport that we desperately need.
She mumbles on about massive expenditure.
Load of rubbish for us here.
Spending $160.8 million for our current rail and that heavy rail build hasn't even started after 4 years.

Looks like rail to Maroochydore is dead...  again.

Couriermail --> Brisbane 2032: Premier stands behind Gabba as centrepiece stadium $

QuotePremier Annastacia Palaszczuk has declared "we are 100 per cent committed to the Gabba", dispelling concerns the Olympic organising committee would be forced to consider another central venue for Brisbane 2032.

Demolishing and rebuilding the iconic venue was the centrepiece of the city's hosting bid but recent reports of the development costing more than double the initial estimate of $1 billion had triggered protests from sections of the community.

Various alternatives have been floated by pundits, including re-using the Gold Coast Commonwealth Games venue, Metricon Stadium, as well as building a new sports facility at Albion in the city's inner north.

Ms Palaszczuk said details of the cost were currently being considered but declared her support for a rebuilt Gabba, which she said was in the "perfect location". ...

Yep, as Mr Liveris confirmed ... it is the Gabba at 'whatever the cost'.

The Premier's performance at today's media conference on the Sunshine Coast highlighted that her preferred means of getting people too and from the Olympic venues on the Sunshine Coast is via the Bruce Highway. Her comments about 'massive infrastructure expenditure' for the Bruce ignores the fact that a significant chunk of the road money is coming from the feds.

She was thinking as she spoke. She should have anticipated the question. It was a rambling reply.

In the normal course of events, the Queensland Government would put out a glossy document titled something like 'Racing towards the 2032 Olympic Games' and then when the wheels start to fall off, crank up the presses with another strategy 'Getting Ready for Olympics 2034'. The only trouble is that the Olympic Games opening ceremony is fixed for 23 July 2032.

Fortunately, Australian comedians have thought about what could go wrong:



 

In 'The Games', the feature act for the closing ceremony (The Seekers) cancelled. The Olympic Organising Committee members had to step in:

QuoteYep, as Mr Liveris confirmed ... it is the Gabba at 'whatever the cost'.

This is disappointing. I'm a big fan of merit-based assessment. This does not conform to that ideal.

How about "Trains for the Games" as a headline/title to push for various needed improvements (camcos, upgraded Cleveland line etc) that really need to be delivered in the next decade?

We're dealing with a State Govt that can't even let a contract, to get the EXISTING Heavy Rail, from Varsity Lakes all the 20k's or so to Coolangatta.....    What chance "serious stuff" in the next decade?   

The bloke speaking from the ONE MINUTE "MARK"    in the video linked below, studied in Brisbane...if only he'd entered politcs here......

Can EVERYONE, in both the Qld Cabinet and Qld Dept of Transport spend a minute or two and watch a couple of times what he says.....it's 101 stuff, but obviously revolutionary to Qld'r thinking!

Quote from: ozbob on October 10, 2022, 06:50:40 AM

The Queensland Government must have missed this one.. 

Couriermail --> Greens threat to use balance of power to block Gabba Olympics stadium $

QuoteThe Greens have warned they will "explore'' using their power in federal Parliament to block a highly controversial plan to demolish The Gabba for an Olympics opening ceremony stadium.

The Greens have warned they might use their balance of power in the Senate to block a deeply controversial plan to build an Olympics stadium at The Gabba.

The State Government has come under heavy fire over the plan for the stadium, to host the opening ceremony of the 2032 Games, which some have estimated could cost $2.5 billion.

Several hundred East Brisbane State School students and parents rallied at the school this morning to protest the demolition plan, which they feared would mean the closure of the 123-year-old heritage-listed school, or moving students until the stadium was built.

The Commonwealth had agreed before the election to be a 50 per cent funding partner for the project, which the State Government originally costed at about $1 billion.

Local federal Greens MP, Max Chandler, said the party would "explore the possibility'' of blocking any federal funding using its balance of power in the senate, via a disallowance motion. ...

Well done the Greens.  There is no need to spend billions of the hard earned on the 'Gabba.  As highlighted by many earlier in this thread plenty of suitable venues already.  And wasn't that meant to the basis for the new low cost Olympics?  Use what we have rather than massive largesse.

This State Government gets more out of touch with its base by the hour ...

I was surprised to see the Courier Mail actually present The Greens in quite a reasonable light here. Normally the CM paints them with the whole "loony left" image and doesn't really have anything nice to say. especially when it comes to Cr Sriranganathan.

So i think it really says something about the current Gabba plans, if even the Greens and the Courier Mail can agree on something!

Crystal Balling.....[free one for switched on pollies...mind you, it's QLD, so not sure we got m/any of them]

Both the 'Gabba and Lang Park have served SEQ well, but they have both reached the end of the strategic road - they are both inner-city venues, that will frankly struggle to deliver in the years to come.

A 10yr plan should be embraced to return them to "community park" status, reflecting their proud sporting heritage etc etc....all feel good, easy to sell ie, kids and families running around the grounds of the 'Gabba/Lang Park, public spaces to enjoy etc etc

Build a TRULY "World Class" [Qld Govt loves that term anyway] - with....wait for it....waaaiiit.......HEAVY RAIL, running right into the heart of a Global Sports Precinct with all the bells and whilstes and give SEQ a Sports/Entertainment area for the next 100yrs+....with HEAVY RAIL right into the heart of it 24/7 and get on with it, instead of all this chair shuffling....

https://twitter.com/7NewsBrisbane/status/1585909723588542464