RAIL - Back On Track Forum

I have been doing some research into the Caboolture to Maroochydore Corridor Study (CAMCOS).

Interesting to note the multiple routes that have been investigated over the years.
ARUP Engineers carried out much (if not all) of the investigation works for the Department of Transport and Main Roads.

I was surprised to learn that the corridor study extends beyond central Maroochydore, and continues over the Maroochy River and onto the Sunshine Coast Airport (a sensible move).
Further maps show potential corridor options (multiple ones) that head from the Airport west across to the heavy rail line near Yandina.

Who knew?

I did, apparently.
Going through past posts here, I made a comment about it getting to the Airport in a post from 2012.

From TMR website:

The Queensland Government agreed to implement the recommendations from the Caboolture to Maroochydore Study, including the need to protect the preferred future public transport corridor from Beerwah to Maroochydore and on to the Sunshine Coast Airport. Since then, the government has been actively acquiring land for the corridor.
https://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Projects/Name/C/Caboolture-to-Maroochydore-Corridor-Study

There we have it, it extends up to the Airport, or at least land will be garnered up to there for the time being.

Yeah there's been lots of map studies of the corridor over the years. There was another full investigation by state government including aerial studies in 2006/2007 (enough that high res imagery was purchased along the proposed corridor under QT Bus Priority Corridor which went along Nickolin Way) prior to when works started on the original Caboolture-Beerburrum upgrade. I notice only the 1999 study is on the TMR website.

It's wild country for a railway line between SC Airport and Yandina and will be a long time coming.  When it does FF, buy me a one-way ticket and place it on my grave.

ALWAYS take what a politician says with a grain of salt - especially when it comes to the Sunshine Coast and its (largely) rusted-on conservative constituency.

https://www.railpage.com.au/f-p326191.htm

Quote from: Stillwater on March 12, 2018, 07:24:52 AM
It's wild country for a railway line between SC Airport and Yandina and will be a long time coming.  When it does FF, buy me a one-way ticket and place it on my grave.

ALWAYS take what a politician says with a grain of salt - especially when it comes to the Sunshine Coast and its (largely) rusted-on conservative constituency.

https://www.railpage.com.au/f-p326191.htm

You reckon I'll be still here? 
I'll get one of my kids to do it.

Serious note
It was part of a number of considerations for CAMCOS from the Sunshine Coast Airport westward.
Looks like the Airport is as far as it will ever get.

I am however intrigued at the missing 2006/07 CAMCOS study documents, and why they aren't on the website.

I love internet archive websites..
Updated Webpage 28 May 2008
This information below has disappeared from the TMR website.

About the Caloundra South Rail Corridor Realignment Study
The Sunshine Coast is one of Queensland's most popular destinations, and as the region grows in popularity and size, so too does the demand for public transport and infrastructure.
The Caboolture to Maroochydore Corridor Study is a proposed passenger rail service from Beerwah to Maroochydore, which will provide a public transport service for the Sunshine Coast community and link the coastal urban area to Brisbane.
What has been done so far?
The draft Local Growth Management Strategy for Caloundra identified an alternative alignment for the rail line between the Bruce Highway and Sugar Bag Road. The Caloundra South Rail Corridor Realignment Study is investigating the merits of this alternative alignment. Queensland Transport, in conjunction with consulting engineers Arup, have completed an environmental impact study of the environmental, social and economic benefits and impacts of the alternative alignment against the Queensland Government's existing, earmarked alignment. The study has recommended the alternative alignment as it has less impact on the environment and more benefits to the local surrounding community.
Download a copy of our latest newsletter to read more about the outcomes of the study. (PDF**, 570KB)
What happens now?
The environmental impact study featuring the alternative alignment will be available for public comment for four weeks. The dates that this will occur are still to be finalised.
Following consultation, Queensland Transport will submit the environmental impact study report and recommendations to the Queensland Government in the second half of 2008 for approval to preserve the realigned corridor. Following this, the Government will then announce the preferred corridor and the project will move into the design and construction phase.
Where to view the study report
The study report will be available on this website and you will also be able to view the report at a number of locations in the Caloundra region. There will also be public displays where members of the study team will be available to explain the study and answer questions.
More information
Download a map of the Caloundra South Rail Corridor Realignment Study alignment
(PDF**, 468KB)
Arup are conducting the environmental impact study in line with the project specific Terms of Reference prepared by Queensland Transport.
Download the project Terms of Reference.(PDF**, 158KB)

** While this department has taken every possible precaution with the creation of these files, they are downloaded and used at your own risk. Adobe Reader is required to open and print Portable Document Format (PDF) files and is free to download from http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html. Various tools to enable access to these files for people using a screen reader can be found at http://access.adobe.com.
Last updated 28 May 2008

I love internet archive websites..
Updated Webpage 17 July 2007
This information below has disappeared from the TMR website.

Caloundra South CAMCOS Realignment Study

The original Caboolture to Maroochydore Corridor Study (CAMCOS) was a proposal for a passenger train service for the Sunshine Coast which would also provide travellers with a fast link to Brisbane.  It included an upgrade of the North Coast rail line from Caboolture to Landsborough and a new line from Beerwah to Maroochydore.
While a route for the corridor has been agreed to by Government, there are some sections of the corridor where realignment opportunities have since been identified, to further enhance public transport services and protect the environment.
One such section – Caloundra South, including Caloundra aerodrome, was identified by Caloundra City Council through their draft Local Growth Management Strategy.
ARUP have been commission by Queensland Transport to undertake the Caloundra South CAMCOS Realignment Study. The study will include a land use and transport integration review of the CAMCOS corridor alignment between the Bruce Highway and Sugar Bag Road to recommend a preferred alignment.
The public will be invited to comment on the draft Environmental Impact Study (EIS) in the second half of 2007. The final EIS report will be submitted to the Queensland Government for approval by the end of 2007.
The current timetable for construction of the corridor is, Beerwah to Caloundra by 2015 and from Caloundra to Maroochydore by 2020.
This web page will be updated with the latest information on the Caloundra South CAMCOS Realignment Study once it is made publicly available.
For further information visit the Caloundra South CAMCOS Realignment Study website* or contact ARUP.
Phone 1800 451 545n
Email camcos@arup.com.au

By mail
Caloundra South CAMCOS Realignment Study
C/- ARUP
GPO Box 685
Brisbane Queensland 4001
Project newsletter

Newsletter 1, May 2007 (PDF**, 800KB)
*The content found by using this link is not created, controlled or approved by this department. No responsibility is taken for the consequences of viewing content on this site. This link will load into a new window.
**While this department has taken every possible precaution with the creation of these files, they are downloaded and used at your own risk. Adobe Reader is required to open and print Portable Document Format (PDF) files and is free to download from http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html. Various tools to enable access to these files for people using a screen reader can be found at http://access.adobe.com. Further information is available from our "Help with downloading, reading and printing PDF" web page.
nFree call from anywhere in Queensland, except mobile phones and public telephones. Service operates Monday to Friday 9am to 5pm EST (GMT +10) excluding public holidays.
Last updated 17 July 2007

Newsletter from Websites above.

Note the date - May 2007. And we are still talking about it.

The Australian 5th November 2018 page 7

Sunshine Coast rail plan stopped in tracks



https://twitter.com/ozbob13/status/1059210647219580928

Not many people around the planet are, frankly.  There are reasons for that.

Also, $1.2bn?  Rack off.  That is an absolutely fake figure.

No, it isn't SR.
I have been in discussions with this company since early October.
I have seen all the documents and correspondence.
They are offering to pay to build it 100%.
Private equity backed by some of the largest pension funds in Europe.
It's a Mag Lev system.
There's also a lot more to this story.

The Mag-lev proposal posted on the other forums would've really been laughed off, similar to the "Hyperloop Bus to the Gold Coast".  Phrases on a the Transport section on a certain Oz Development/Scrapers forum would've led to stuff like "Maglev Bus to Maroochydore" and the familiar suspects like "Cabulcha", "West Peanut Hills", etc.

MagLev works.  The biggest obstacle is the cost.

This is a good article:

Railway Technology --> Will maglev ever become mainstream?

https://twitter.com/charliepeeled/status/1059191664416219137

Quote from: Fares_Fair on November 05, 2018, 09:01:29 AM
No, it isn't SR.
I have been in discussions with this company since early October.
I have seen all the documents and correspondence.
They are offering to pay to build it 100%.
Private equity backed by some of the largest pension funds in Europe.
It's a Mag Lev system.
There's also a lot more to this story.

Quite possibly FF, I will have to defer to your knowledge on this one - but I'd be pretty flabbergasted if any kind of maglev installation only cost that much based on what I know about the other contemporary projects (eg the JR Central project).  Admittedly that project involves much higher speeds than would be likely to be required for something only 100km or so in length so the engineering tolerances may be quite a bit higher.

Seems strange for the state government to block discussion at an early stage.  Is there an alternative in the works and what might that be?

^SR
All good. It's operation speed would be 100-150km.
40km in length.
28 minutes from Maroochydore to Beerwah.
7 stops.
Cost as for a 2 zone trip, and working within the TransLink system.

Utilises solar panels on trains and stations.

Company is working with US Navy to develop an aircraft arrest system for carriers using this technology.
Have numerous patents.

All I'm saying is that it bears serious consideration, not a fob off from Govt.

Edit: 40km length added.

When people mention ' Maglev ' most think of high speeds.

Maglev is maturing into a more utility mode as well.

This is a relatively low speed recent new maglev line in China. Beijing Maglev Train Line S1

The AMT proposal is for higher speeds but not high speed, only in the range 100-150 km/h.  This makes it much achievable energy wise I guess and construction and operating costs lower.

Interesting video though ..

Quote from: Fares_Fair on November 05, 2018, 13:44:55 PM
^SR
All good. It's operation speed would be 100-150km.
40km in length.
28 minutes from Maroochydore to Beerwah.
7 stops.
Cost as for a 2 zone trip, and working within the TransLink system.

Utilises solar panels on trains and stations.

Company is working with US Navy to develop an aircraft arrest system for carriers using this technology.
Have numerous patents.

All I'm saying is that it bears serious consideration, not a fob off from Govt.

Edit: 40km length added.

If it's only the CAMCOS corridor length then that's a different story, and the costs are much more sensible.

On a more serious note, using the CAMCOS corridor for the Maglev proposal still faces walk-up issues. 

If it was built as a "short term" project using entirely private funding, the only major traffic generators would be the SC Hospital Precinct (Hospitals + the Business District) and the Mountain Creek Education Precinct (Primary School, High School & TAFE).  Aura would still be under construction to generate any walk-up patronage.

The other alternative is elevated alongside the Nicklin Way following pretty much the existing Route 600 bus (higher walk-up patronage), although the costs would very likely rise with the increased concrete required.

I have the patronage projections.
The proponent says they are conservative and achievable.

Quote from: ozbob on November 05, 2018, 11:45:45 AM
https://twitter.com/charliepeeled/status/1059191664416219137

Everything that is wrong with QLD Transport Planning in one tweet!  Still prioritizing the car despite all that we know about good 31st transport planning!! Absolutely no intention of being close to world leading!!

The Australian --> Queensland government not keen to back Sunshine Coast rail plan

QuoteA US company that wants to build a $1.2 billion rail connection on the Sunshine Coast was told by the Queensland government there was "insufficient need", despite it first being proposed by the government two decades ago.

The Caboolture to Maroochydore Corridor Study (CAMCOS) project was first raised by the state government in the 1990s to link the populous coastal towns to the heavy rail line to Brisbane. The designated route remains reserved as a public transport corridor.

American Maglev Technology lodged its market-led proposal with the government in 2015 but was told the need for the project was not high enough and the cost of TransLink subsidies was unaffordable.

The company estimated it would cost the government $30 million a year to subsidise through TransLink, compared with $80m set aside for the Gold Coast's light trail system.

Under AMT's proposal, the train would run on a rail line several metres above the ground and use opposing magnetic forces to hover above the tracks and propel the carriages.

AMT's Australian representative, Dick Rowe, told The Australian the government told him it did not support the project.

"Something's going to have to happen before the Sunshine Coast is caught in gridlock," he said "Whatever they do is going to cost them money."

The service would run every 10 to 12 minutes for 20 hours a day, reaching a maximum speed of 150km/h.

AMT estimated the capital cost would be half that of alternative light rail systems and operational costs would also be lower. In its proposal, it said it would transfer ownership to the state after at least 30 years and guaranteed construction within two years of approval.

Sunshine Coast rail advocate Jeff Addison said the region needed the rail connection to alleviate pressure on local roads and the highway between the coast and Brisbane.

"The government doesn't want to spend money on public transport on the Sunshine Coast, it's as simple as that," he said.

A Department of State Development spokesman said the proposal had not been rejected but "consideration of the proposal was suspended at the request of the proponent in December 2016".

Mr Rowe said the project was still on the table but had not moved forward because of a lack of support from the government.

The government's State Infrastructure Plan said demand on the Sunshine Coast rail line would exceed capacity by 2031.

Quote from: Stillwater on November 05, 2018, 13:31:07 PM
Seems strange for the state government to block discussion at an early stage.  Is there an alternative in the works and what might that be?

Doubt it Mr Stillwater.  The only thing they would have would be a re-worked video now titled ' Connecting SEQ 2045 Rail Revolution '  We must dream on though .. 

Talked to Ch 7 Local news this afternoon on this issue.
Won't air tonight.
Tomorrow will be hectic with PM around and the horse race..

It's truly extraordinary how the Govt have treated this proposal.
Their claim of the proponent withdrawing is a deception.


Proponent was told that there is no need for it.
Proponent was told that $30m per year to operate it was too much in a tight environment.

OF COURSE THEY WITHDREW..


The hypocrisy when they spend $80m per year over the next 15 years funding Gold Coast Light Rail, AND they paid for its $1.3 billion construction cost (which blew out to $1.85 billion).

Ahh, of course, operating cost.   I wonder whether all the real estate development going on around the CRR stations, including Roma Street, was factored into the Business Case for CRR.

Maglev for the Sunshine Coast is a proposal that should be examined, having regard to all the flow-on effects and development it will bring.  That should lift the BCR.  (I suggest the proponent will make the bid to run the rail through land it owns, in much the same way as Stockland wants rail to Aura before too long.)

Clearly, the proponent wants to get a toe-hold for Maglev in Australia and across the wider SE-Asia Region, so is pushing this a bit like a project builder promotes his latest home design.  My only reservation about Maglev is that it requires flat land to perform best, but it is all flat from Landsborough to Caloundra and up the coast.  Yes, it uses a lot of power, but there is plenty of sunshine on the Sunshine Coast for renewable energy.  Just ask SCC, which is installing its own solar powered renewable plant on disused cane land.

FF, the news item went to air tonight on the Channel 7 Local News.

Thank you SW.
I hope it got the points across.

Could the state government's lukewarm attitude to the Maglev proposal for the Sunshine Coast, in part, be influenced by an assessment of the CAMCOS corridor options undertaken by ARUP (Final Impact Assessment and Land Use Transport Strategy) dated February 2001?

ARUP concluded:

"Unfortunately this technology is very expensive and significantly more expensive than heavy passenger rail.  The technology is also relatively unproven with few examples worldwide.  This technology would mean that vehicles would be manufactured overseas and imported into the country, possibly further adding to the high costs. Based on the high cost of this technology and the comparatively low demand for inter-regional travel between the Sunshine Coast and Brisbane, this technology would not be justified for many years.  As a result, we have not considered this mode to be viable at the present time."

The crucial words are the last four ....' at the present time'.

The ARUP assessment was made in February 2001 and we could confidently assume that Maglev technology has moved on considerably in the past 17 years.
It would be unfortunate if the Queensland Government in 2018 is relying on reports of 17 years ago to justify its position.  At the very least, it should back a Business Case for the proposal in 2018.

The Brisbane Times news site and the Sunshine Coast Daily in 2013 reported that the 'entity' involved in a Maglev proposal for the Sunshine Coast is The American Maglev Technology Inc.
In March 2018, the Organisation Sunshine Coast Association of Residents (OSCAR)considered a proposal from that company.  A summary is available on the Internet as a PDF document.

Major highlights are as follows:

Maroochydore station located in SunCentral Town Centre (old Horton Park site)...Beerwah station in the vicinity of existing rail station
Interim stations at Mooloolaba, University, SCUH, Caloundra, Caloundra West (Little Mountain), Caloundra South (Aura)
Initial operation with 12 vehicles with two coupled; each vehicle with up to 225 passenger capacity
Service frequency of 10-12 mins. operating 20 hours per day, 365 days per year 
Total trip time with station stops of 28 mins at maximum speed of 100-150 kph
Prelim M'dore-Beerwah full fare of  $7.50 (indicative) ... as a private sector operation

A link to AMT Inc: http://american-maglev.com

Video:

A Maglev train is in commercial operation in Korea:



Of course, Maglev trains can operate without drivers or guards.  Is the State of Queensland's reluctance to consider Maglev technology in 2018 due to a desire not to upset the union, which is against DOO trains in Queensland?  Trains without drivers certainly would be a novel way to overcome Queensland's driver shortage!

Sunshine Coast Daily 12th November 2018 pages 1 and 4.

Bureaucratic brick wall

Excellent story - puts the issues in the spotlight very nicely.  Mr Bailey would not appear to be a Minister of independent thought because he will wait for the TMR briefing before tamely following the suggested speaking points for media consumption.  Queensland chooses to look the gift horse in the mouth. We can thank Scott Sawyer, the journalist, for getting TMR to admit that it never was serious about the CAMCOS corridor development, despite it being in the Connecting SEQ 2031 document.  We know. 

Can we strip away the window-dressing please and have the State of Queensland's forward planning and funding proposal for the CAMCOS corridor.  And why hasn't Maglev been allowed to progress to a Business Case?  That would test the funding model and the technology so that we all can be better informed, including Mr Bailey.  Or is he restricting himself to a single line of advice via TMR?

The $15m business case for Bne-Tmba fast passenger rail has these elements for consideration:

The business case will investigate a range of route options, including but not limited to:

•upgrades to the existing rail line to enable regular commuter passenger rail services and integrating passenger services in freight corridors;
•route staging and timing of construction; and
•type of rolling stock.

As to final point (type of rolling stock), wouldn't it be good if the appropriate type of rolling stock for rapid regional rail was common to North Coast Connect as well and proposals such as rail to Beaudesert.  What seems to be shaping is the possibility of a new fleet of trains, as yet identified, that would operate these services in future.  It may not be NGR trains.

I would expect rollingstock incorporating Tilt Train technology may be required to achieve greater efficiency in speed (and thus time).
The North Coast Connect (fast rail, not high speed rail) Business Case due by mid-year.

I wouldn't expect too much. The Tilts take 45 minutes just to go from Roma St to Caboolture.

Quote from: aldonius on January 13, 2019, 11:46:40 AM
I wouldn't expect too much. The Tilts take 45 minutes just to go from Roma St to Caboolture.

The tilts are only four minutes faster than a Gympie North service on the same corridor (running express Bowen Hills to Caboolture, stopping Northgate and Petrie).

Most of the time savings would be on the Beerburrum - Landsborough corridor.

Personally I just see 9 car NGRs running. Tilting trains wouldn't make a dramatic difference in times especially if its just Landsborough-Caboolture. If anything tilting trains would just be an additional cost in terms of track and rollingstock design and upkeep (signalling, the tilting mech, soundproofing which is significant between 130-160 - In the 160/260s you can easily notice the sound difference between 100kph and 130kph as the motors spin up and the wind resistance kicks in etc). Have the 140kph running and longer spacing is all that is needed.

Arnz, HTG,
Would removal of level crossings additionally improve commute times?
Any idea by how much?
I'm talking in terms of the North Coast Connect high speed rail proposal which is looking at speeds of 160 - 220km/h

Not one bit. Take the old Telegraph road level crossing. Prior to the overpass it was 100kph and still is. Geebung also has stayed the same. Fruitgrove is another station that has trains going past at 100kph. Level crossing removal only speeds up the road network as the track speeds dictate how far out the crossings are activated for passing trains.

Also. If you are going to have 160kph trains operating in the seq area just remember freight trains are speed limited. Effectively you are having passenger trains doing nearly double the speed of the intermodals.

There would need to be a rethink on CAMCOS (heavy rail/light rail) and possibly where it would terminate in the first stage. Caloundra would be the go initially, although it would make better sense to take it to Kawana because of the huge health precinct there.  Maroochydore would be a bit of a stretch .... airport a    It would require super bridge over Maroochy River.  As to spur to near Yandina, it is flat cane land between the airport and Yandina (passing through go-ahead Bli Bli), but the junction with NCL probably would have to be south of the river so as to avoid another rail bridge.  Anything beyond Kawana/Maroochydore would be a long, long way off.