Sunshine Coast Line draft 2011 timetable feedback thread

[ozbob]

Please add comments, constructive or destructive ... 

[ozbob]

A guarantee that IMUs or ICE used on all services north of Caboolture.  If that is not possible then a guaranteed toilet break at Caboolture and Landsborough.

This is a major issue for many rail pax north of CAB. 

[somebody]

A guarantee that IMUs or ICE used on all services north of Caboolture.  If that is not possible then a guaranteed toilet break at Caboolture and Landsborough.

This is a major issue for many rail pax north of CAB. 

Not before time.

Similarly to my comments re: CAB.  No real improvement, and in fact it has gone backwards in some areas.

[Sunbus610]

I not at all happy with the proposal to change the 6:30am service from Nambour to Roma Street to a 6:40am departure time instead . At least the current 6:30am service gets commuters into Brisbane Central station around 8:15am which then gave us a reasonable time to walk to our CBD place of work so we could start work at 8:30am. There definitely need to be another peak service added between the times 6:08am and 6:40am from Nambour to Brisbane.

[Barbar]

I'm completely amazed at the ridiculous peak service stopping patterns, why must an ex Nambour inbound so-called "express"  stop at the already well serviced inner city zone 2 stations Nundah,Toombul, Eagle Junction, Wooloowin and Albion...where is the logic in that? IMO EVERY inbound & outbound Sunshine Coast peak service should have the same limited stops pattern as the Gympie North service ...why can't QR provide a true interurban EXPRESS service for the long distance Sunny coast commuter?  Once again, zero reduction in Sunshine Coast line travel time and customer comfort, well done QR.

[Sunbus610]

I not at all happy with the proposal to change the 6:30am service from Nambour to Roma Street to a 6:40am departure time instead . At least the current 6:30am service gets commuters into Brisbane Central station around 8:15am which then gave us a reasonable time to walk to our CBD place of work so we could start work at 8:30am. There definitely need to be another peak service added between the times 6:08am and 6:40am from Nambour to Brisbane.

Well.......what to you know, I'm not the only Sunshine Coast rail commuter who shares this opinion "Changes to train service blasted"  (from todays Sunshine Coast Daily)

[Fares_Fair]

I'm with you Sunbus.

Afternoon service home for 5pm knock-off commuters is 5:04pm from Central (impossible to catch for most) and then a wait until 5:47pm. This is no improvement whatsoever - they have spaced our services even further apart !

I may be cynical, but only a QR worker/scheduler who is ensconced above Central can get this service home.

In afternoon peak, they provide a part "new" service at 3:30pm (hardly peak hour) which is only a continuation of the previous service which stopped at Caboolture.

To create the new extra morning service (which is certainly better than nothing) they have shifted the old 5:26am Nambour service back to 5:10am and added a service at 5:38am, before the current and continuing 6:08am service.

Then they have rearranged the morning departure times so you get to the cbd at 8:28am. Again only useful if you are a QR worker/scheduler working upstairs.

Thay have disadvantaged us (sunshine coast commuters) in both directions - we are angry about it.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[somebody]

why must an ex Nambour inbound so-called "express"  stop at the already well serviced inner city zone 2 stations Nundah,Toombul, Eagle Junction, Wooloowin and Albion...where is the logic in that?

I would support stopping at Eagle Junction for most, if not all Sunshine Coast trains.  It is a more important junction than either Northgate or Petrie now, with the Airport line, and FWIW the Doomben line.

[Barbar]

why must an ex Nambour inbound so-called "express"  stop at the already well serviced inner city zone 2 stations Nundah,Toombul, Eagle Junction, Wooloowin and Albion...where is the logic in that?

I would support stopping at Eagle Junction for most, if not all Sunshine Coast trains.  It is a more important junction than either Northgate or Petrie now, with the Airport line, and FWIW the Doomben line.

Yep, agree, drop Petrie and Northgate, keep Eagle Junction as the only zone 2 stop; shame it'll never happen being far too logical for Translink/QR to even consider.

[Arnz]

The question is why are the peak "expresses" being slowed down/being slowly taken away from us? and another is slowing peak hour Nambour trains QR's excuse to not providing toilets on (most) Sunshine Coast services (thus breaching OH&S and their zero harm policy)

If QR really want to spread out the loads and call in a few more stops, it should only stop all stations between Petrie and Caboolture.  Otherwise Eagle Junction (replacing Northgate) and Petrie should really be the only stops on the peak Nambour service.

[Fares_Fair]

The reduction of express services (reduced from 20 through stations, down to 9) for the 5:02pm Nambour service is certainly a retrograde step.

It is only retained on the 5:47pm Nambour service which will be jam packed better than sardines, it is essentially combining 2 currently very busy services into 1.
The 5:16pm and the 5:44pm are now all in one train - the 5:47pm Nambour service.

I suspect that that is their way of statistically "providing more services".
Not really new, just extra stops for the longest distance commuting 'customers'.

If this is a smokescreen for the 15% price hikes coming in January then it has worked very well. 

Regards,
Fares_Fair

[Arnz]

Reading the Sunshine Coast draft timetable again, it's now THREE operating patterns.

1. Express Bowen Hills to Caboolture, then all to Gympie North. (1 in each direction per day).
2. Express Northgate to Caboolture, stopping Petrie (3 peak services in each direction, off-peak, weekend).
3. Express Northgate to Petrie (2 peak services in each direction).

For a total of 6 peak services. (5 to Nambour (3 with Pattern 2, 2 with Pattern 3), 1 to Gympie (Pattern 1).

So basically we get 3 stopping patterns in peak.    (up from 2).

[somebody]

I think they need to get rid of pattern 3.  Heading north, those trains are likely to be well loaded with people who want to go to stations between Petrie and Caboolture, so continuing on to Nambour is rather wasteful of a path over the single track.

Heading south, the trains would be exceedingly packed by Petrie, but they still see fit to all stop Northgate-Bowen Hills.  It doesn't make sense.

[Barbar]

IMO the Sunshine Coast peak service operating pattern should be:
Bowen Hills, Eagle Junction, express Northgate to Caboolture, then all to Nambour/Gympie North ( both directions ) 

[BrizCommuter]

Anyone for a Low Fat Sunshine Coast Expresso?
http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com/2010/11/low-fat-sunshine-expresso.html

[Barbar]

Thanks for that dose of reality BrizCommuter; for a moment there I believed one's feedback just might be taken seriously by Translink/QR....but I guess making efficient use of available track will remain the primary goal of the Sunshine Coast Line draft 2011 timetable. 

[somebody]

Thanks for that dose of reality BrizCommuter; for a moment there I believed one's feedback just might be taken seriously by Translink/QR....but I guess making efficient use of available track will remain the primary goal of the Sunshine Coast Line draft 2011 timetable. 

You mean as compared to providing a service to commuters?

[ozbob]

The Sunshine Coast line commuters do have reason to be less than impressed with the draft timetable for the obvious reasons.

No one has a go at the Gold Coasters for living there and I certainly don't have a go at where the Sunshine coast residents choose to reside.  It is not an unreasonable expectation IMHO for the second most populist region in SEQ to be supported with a decent rail service.

A bit of lateral thinking is needed.  Some Landsborough services could be added to make a mess a little bit tidier. For example Landsborough services out of Central  say 5.20pm, 6.34pm and a 8.34pm Nambour for a start.  But better still make the 5.02pm a Landsborough and put a Nambour on around 5.20pm or so.  A 8.30pm Nambour service is needed to break up that 2 hour gap.

[Golliwog]

Comparing the Sunshine Coast line to the GC line is not a fair comparison! The GC line is a dead end track so the only services using it are the passenger services, compared to the Sunshine Coast line which has to share with Tilt trains, freight and coal trains. Until the physical track capacity is increased, I support increasing passenger capacity by allowing trains to travel closer together by homogenising the timetable.

[Stillwater]

Good suggestions Ozbob.  Landsborough terminators may be the answer -- at least that gets people to the busiest station on the line and the point at which the buses meet trains for Caloundra, Maroochydore and Blackall Range.  BrizCommuter's observation that Landsborough QR staff are being verbally abused over changed service operations is an unfortunate development.  Today I heard word of a petition being got up, complaining of the new timetable, to be organised by upset Nambour commuters.  Unfortunately, the government made some pretty clear promises about completion dates for Caboolture-Landsborough duplication and CAMCOS, and have backed out of them.  People feel they have been lied to.  Now the perception among many is that the service they have had has gone backwards when the 2011 timetable was touted as a better deal,  Now they feel lied to twice!  It would be interesting if there was an LNP government elected in Qld at the next state election, because all the electorates on SC (bar one held by an independent) are LNP seats.  Then the pressure would be on the LNP to do a bit better for PT users on the Sunny Coast.

[ozbob]

I am extremely disappointed with the ongoing shambles with the Sunshine Coast line Stillwater.  

I actually think they have butchered the Sunshine Coast timetable.  Another approach would have been to start completely clean and set the entire CAB -IPS corridor up as a 15/30 minute off peak frequency timetable first. Then layer on the Sunshine Coast and peak services. From there add in the Gold Coast - Airport, Ferny Grove, Beenleigh, Cleveland, Shorncliffe, Doomben.  Richlands is part of the CAB -IPS corridor.

This is not going to happen.  I would be very surprised if there are any real structural changes to the present draft timetables from this point. Some minor time tweakings perhaps.  Clearly the timings for the Nambour services will need addressing.  The failure to fix the two hour weekday evening gap rail Brisbane to Nambour is appalling.  This non action smacks of political neglect IMHO.

Not only at the Sunny Coast are pax spitting chips so are the outer CAB and IPS mobs, as they too were under the impression that there would be improvements in frequency for their worlds. As far as locally goes north of Nambour the shuttle between Gympie North and Nambour would have preserved train paths south of Nambour and resulted in a higher frequency and level of convenience for all.  A two way all day evening service could have been provided with the capability of ramping services in and out of Nambour - Brisbane.  Shuttle connecting with many of the thru services ex/to Nambour.

Does the Government realise the grief and resentment out there?  The failings to properly place stabling, track capacity and so forth are now obvious even to the so called policy planners.  Gone for all money ...

I intend to work away on raising the need for proper stabling to position the network for the future. Wulkuraka and Yandina both need to be set up as the key outer stabling points on those lines. Plenty of room and will support the timetable properly. This would allow Nambour railway station itself to be fixed. The present construction of stabling at Redbank is in the same class as the construction of the park and ride car parks along the western line on the alignment for the third line ...  we have idiots in charge.

TransLink planners have demonstrated a lack of understanding at the local level.  The weird comments being made to punters at the so called consultation sessions so far confirms that.  Why are the people who actually put together the rail timetable the ones  not out there explaining why they have done what they have?  The real risk now is that they will end up further butchering what is already butchered to result in an even worse outcome than what was thought of by some as an improvement.

There is no standing back from the fact that they have had years to plan for this in the knowledge that Richlands was going to be train capable early next year.  To not have it ready to go from day one Richlands is for me inexcusable.  I doubt if we will see any changes to the timetables before July next year if we are lucky.   Richlands is going to operate with a ramshackle interim timetable too who knows when.

[ozbob]

Comparing the Sunshine Coast line to the GC line is not a fair comparison! The GC line is a dead end track so the only services using it are the passenger services, compared to the Sunshine Coast line which has to share with Tilt trains, freight and coal trains. Until the physical track capacity is increased, I support increasing passenger capacity by allowing trains to travel closer together by homogenising the timetable.

I am not doing that.  I am simply stating that Sunshine Coast commuters need a decent service as well.  Some folks have seen the need to chastise Sunshine Coast residents for their lifestyle choices whilst in complete empathy with the Gold Coast and where ever else.  A little hypocritical IMHO.

There is no problem with adding a service Brisbane to Nambour at say 8.30pm to break up the two hour weekday evening gap to Nambour.  I have been to many meetings in Brisbane were Sunshine Coast commuters have had to leave so that they could board the 7.30pm or thereabouts service to go home, otherwise they have to wait around to 9.30pm?  What do you think of that? That gap has nothing to do with track capacity but rather with neglect.

[ozbob]

There is another point that needs to be considered as well.  Because the frequency north of Caboolture is very poor generally anyway, what services there are need to be at the times of most utility to the Sunshine Coast line commuters.  The best judge of that are the Sunshine Coast line commuters and notice does need to be taken of in terms of the times they are suggesting for the services.

[david]

To build on the idea of having trains running through to Landsborough, why not have simple extensions of some services that currently originate/terminate at Caboolture, a bit like how some services are extended to Rosewood on the Ipswich line?

May I suggest the 6:48am ex Caboolture and the 5:22pm ex Central as suitable options. I note that there is a Nambour Railbus connecting with the 5:22pm ex Central at the moment at Caboolture. Perhaps maybe this service can be altered to commence at Landsborough?

[Stillwater]

In discussion of Landsborough terminators at Caboolture on Saturday, I was told that one issue would be the possibility of stabling trains at Landsborough, however, (as was put to me) there may be insufficient or suitable land for stabling at Landsborough.

[Arnz]

There wouldn't need to be stabling at Landsborough, you just need a turnback siding.  

Getting rid of the triangle and replacing it with a electrified turnback siding so terminating and south-bound trains can use Platform 2/side road full-time (without clogging Platform 1/mainline).

As for half-way line stabling, Beerwah would be better location.  You'd be able to stable Nambour to Beerwah shuttles and CAMCOS trains there, as well as a Sunshine Plaza/Maroochydore stabling depot.

[ozbob]

It does seem the major concerns are with the new timetables and patterns for the Sunshine Coast services.  I am confident that feedback given, particularly to timings and other issues will be properly considered.

[somebody]

There wouldn't need to be stabling at Landsborough, you just need a turnback siding.  

I don't know why you need any enhancements there?  There are already two platforms, why can't you just turn back in the off-mainline platform?

[ozbob]

Media release 23 November 2010

SEQ: New timetable for the Sunshine Coast line leaves commuters behind

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport commuters has said the draft 2011 timetable for the Sunshine Coast line needs major revisions and additions (1,2,3).

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"RAIL Back On Track has long been concerned with the poor rail service north of Caboolture (1).  The draft Sunshine Coast line timetable does nothing to ease those concerns (2).  In some respects the draft timetable is actually worse for commuters than the present one.  This is not acceptable.

Major issues identified are:

1. Moving the 5:16pm Nambour service ex Central back to 5:04pm means no 5pm office worker can catch it.

2. Moving the  current afternoon 5:43pm service to later still (5:47pm) for the longest haul commuters in the entire network, so that there is now a 50% longer (3/4 hour) gap between this and the previous (5:04pm) service.

3. Moving  the morning service such that it used to arrive in the CBD from Nambour at 8:16am now arrives at 8:26am with no time for an 8:30am starter to get to work in time.

4. Moving  the morning service such that it used to arrive in the CBD from Nambour at 7:42am now arrives at 8:02am with no time for an 8:00am starter to get to work in time.

5. Reducing the express pattern from 20 stations by passed down to 13 on most services to those who travel furthest and by far the longest, with two services (during peak times) in each direction which only pass 9 stations.

6. Failure to schedule a Nambour service from Central each weeknight between the 7.34pm and 9.34pm services. This is a two hour gap!  A Nambour service is needed to depart Central at 8.34pm.

7. A failure to guarantee trains with toilets on all services north of Caboolture. The Sunshine Coast line should have the priority for IMU trains.

"The new early morning services out of Nambour at 5:10am and 5:38am (which replace the current 5:26am) are welcomed by those who need to arrive in the CBD early, by 7:02am and 7:36am respectively.  The extension of the weekday Cooroy service to Gympie North also means that there are now two daily return services to Gympie North Mondays to Fridays."

"It is critical to note that the limited number of rail services north of Caboolture means that those services that are available need to be very carefully timed to ensure the maximum utility to commuters.  The draft 2011 timetable does not do that."

"In the medium term, another innovation that would allow even more frequent services between Brisbane and Nambour on the restricted  'third world' rail infrastructure between Nambour and Beerburrum would be be to put shuttle services on between Nambour and Gympie North.  This would allow a higher frequency of service between Nambour and Gympie North and allow more express services south of Nambour as more train paths would be available. The ICE trains would be removed from the peak timetable through the rail choke points and this would then allow more uniform operating patterns hence improved frequency and capacity."

"The failure to continue with the duplication of the railway line from Beerburrum to Landsborough is now impacting severely. Another major transport bungle in south-east Queensland."

References:

1. 10 Oct 2010: Sunshine coast or congestion coast? Please don't miss the train! http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=4615.0

2. http://www.translink.com.au/travel-information/service-updates/queensland-rail-timetable-changes/caboolture-and-sunshine-coast-line

3. http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=4880.0

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org

[ozbob]

Took part in an interview on ABC Radio Sunshine Coast FM 90.3  Host John Stokes this morning.

Was able to raise all the essential points, and toilets and the lack thereof on certain trains ( ) and encouraged folks to give direct feedback at the consultation session in Nambour on the 4th December.

The media release (23 November 2010 Sunshine Coast)  was forwarded to the Radio Station for their use as well.

Also briefly discussed the Quiet Car trial and the future of that initiative.

Thanks for the support and opportunity all at 90.3 ABC Sunshine Coast radio!

[ozbob]

From the Gympie Times 19 November 2010 page 1

TRANSPORT GAP WILL BE FILLED WITH NEW TRAIN

TRANSPORT GAP WILL BE FILLED WITH NEW TRAIN Story: Carly Morrissey

CAN you imagine the day when you can jump out of bed catch the morning train to Nambour, see the doctor, visit friends and catch the train back to Gympie and be back in time for lunch?

According to Member for Gympie David Gibson that day is getting closer with a draft TRANSLink 2011 timetable offering another rail service for Gympie.

The extra train would come in to Gympie at 12.39pm Monday to Friday and leave at 1.20pm.

And if the service proved popular there is the chance of more rail services coming to town.

Mr Gibson has been lobbying for improved rail services in the region for years and welcomes the midday service for the last stop on the north coast line - Gympie North Station. "This is great news. As we can encourage existing commuters to leave their cars behind and use the train," he said.

"This good news is not just for Gympie residents but will also benefit those along the line at Traveston, Cooran and Pomona."

A TRANSLink spokesperson said there was a consultation phase for the draft timetable before it would be implemented.

But because of the extensive planning undertaken for the new service there is a good chance it will stay.

"I have been working for years on plans to give my constituents an improved rail service. Now everyone can begin to see how those plans have become a reality and benefit from the new timetable," Mr Gibson said.

He has been highlighting the need for an additional rail service since being elected in 2006.

"I didn't hold out any hope for the additional service due to the responses from the Minister being less then optimistic.

"Even my suggestion of a trial service to gauge the interest was ignored and put in the too hard basket."

Currently the only trains for commuters leaving Gympie, Monday to Friday, are at 6am and the only time you can get back to Gympie via train is at 8pm.

"This proves to be a very tiring and exhausting exercise especially for our senior members of the community."

A NEW rail service for Gympie is expected to heavily reduce the waiting times of commuters trying to get home to Gympie.

"So many of my constituents have medical and specialist appointments in Nambour and Brisbane hospitals, so this additional service will mean that someone with a 9am appointment at Nambour Hospital will be back in Gympie by midday instead of after 8pm," Mr Gibson said.

"This has been the main reason why I have campaigned so heavily for this service. I would like to encourage everyone to use the service if and when it becomes available.

"The more support and demand for it will ensure that the service will continue."

A public consultation meeting is being held in Nambour at the Community Centre on the corner of Shearer and James Streets on Saturday, December 4, from 10am to midday.

To view a full list of consultation times and the draft timetable visit www.translink.com.au click on travel information and then select Queensland Rail timetable changes.

Call Mr Gibson's office on 5482 3651 with your ideas on improved train services.

[Fares_Fair]

Took part in an interview on ABC Radio Sunshine Coast FM 90.3  Host John Stokes this morning.

Was able to raise all the essential points, and toilets and the lack thereof on certain trains ( ) and encouraged folks to give direct feedback at the consultation session in Nambour on the 4th December.

The media release (23 November 2010 Sunshine Coast)  was forwarded to the Radio Station for their use as well.

Also briefly discussed the Quiet Car trial and the future of that initiative.

Thanks for the support and opportunity all at 90.3 ABC Sunshine Coast radio!

Hello Bob,

On behalf of Sunshine Coast commuters, thank you for highlighting all of the issues so succinctly on this morning's radio broadcast. It was great. You covered all the issues right up until I had to leave home at 6:28am.

Are you able to provide a link to a podcast or record of the interview here in the forum please?

I know there are a few commuters (from the early service who couldn't get reception) who would appreciate to hear it, and so I can hear the end of it also. You had just started discussing the line duplication issue when I had to go.

Also please note that the information session is being held at the Nambour Community Centre, Cnr. James St. and Shearer St. Nambour on Saturday 4th December, 2010 from 10am-12pm.

Thank You. It's appreciated.

Kind regards,
Fares_Fair.

[interested_bystander]

The Sunshine Coast line is a disgrace to passenger rail. The longest line in the network is single line for 90% of the stations, and most stations only have access to one platform. I think the increasing public dissatisfaction should be utilised more proactively in requesting the Queensland government to at least upgrade platforms at stations on this line - or, goodness forbid, continue duplication of the track with some priority!

[ozbob]

Re interview: Thanks, I think it went well.  I had a look at the radio stations blog, not many interviews available at all.  Maybe they have limited resources.

Yes, I think I said it was at the RSL for the meeting (got confused, too many meetings  lol) but I emailed the radio station with the correct details after the interview.  No worries.

[Fares_Fair]

Hello Bob,

I have had a commuter contact me (who listened to the interview this morning) asking how shuttle buses between Nambour and Gympie North would improve the services from Nambour inbound to the CBD.

I would have thought that they could juggle the services side-ways time wise to fit in and complement the existing trains from Nambour.

I must confess I do not understand how the shuttles affect the inbound services.
Could you please explain how it works or affects the network for me please and I'll pass it on?

Thank you.

Kind regards,
Fares_Fair.

[Stillwater]

I think Ozbob's reference to 'shuttles' related to a shuttle train (Gympie-Nambour, maybe three times a day), not buses.  North of Nambour passengers would have to transfer at Nambour.  The operational constraints would relate to slotting the shuttles between freight services on the North Coast Line (and cost, crews etc).  At this stage, new timetable includes extension of the Cooroy daytime service to Gympie North, returning to Central at 4.17pm, from where people could transfer anywhere else on the network.

[ozbob]

I mentioned rail shuttles not bus shuttles.

Running more rail shuttle services between Nambour and Gympie North would improve things for the reasons in the media release.   It means the ICE sets would not be mixed up the peak.  More IMU services from Nambour to CBD then possible as more train paths. The ICE sets have some limitations that interfere in the peak.  Keep them for the shuttles, Nambour to Gympie North and Nambour to Caboolture for the off peak ones if they continue to do that.

Many pax travel from Gympie North (and stations in between) to Nambour for appointments and so forth.  A more regular service between Gympie North and Nambour would be well supported.  Connections with frequent services at Nambour would be made.  This way more than two daily services in and out of Gympie North would be possible, 3 or 4 at a minimum.

It is more a medium term thing though.

[Fares_Fair]

Thank you Stillwater and Ozbob,

Shall pass that on. My apology for the misunderstanding.
See, I should have stayed back and listened to it all..

Kind regards,
Fares_Fair.

[ozbob]

[Fares_Fair]

G'Day Bob,

now that is an iconic icon ...  
where do I get one?

actually may need quite a few more of them next Saturday at the information session.

I shall have to attach it to all my posts from here on in !

Regards,
Fares_Fair.