Quiet Car

[Golliwog]

I don't have a copy of the article from todays mx, but the front page was saying that from Monday Translink and QR will be trialing quiet cars on the train network. They propose that the rear car of the train will be the quiet one where theres no phones, little conversation and no loud mp3 players. The trial isn't going to be mandatory, but I think this could be interesting. I don't think it'll work very well in peak as most people will just be trying to fit on the train but outside the busy times I think it will offer those who want a quieter ride what they want.

[ozbob]

Yes, hope to chase down the article later today.

This idea has been discussed at some CRGs and we have discussed here as well previously.  We had an inkling it would be rolled out. Well worth trialling, has been done overseas, I think this is the first in Oz.  Some of our members have used quiet carriages on systems in the UK and have reported favourable outcomes.  If anything this again shows the value of the QR CRGs and TransLink would be well placed to consider their own CRGS as well.

Some relevant links


--> http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/Content.aspx?id=62

--> http://www.bahn.com/i/view/GBR/en/trains/overview/mobile-area.shtml

--> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=600.msg2419#msg2419

--> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=1835.0

--> http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=16940033508&topic=10552

[ozbob]

From the Brisbane mX 20th August 2010 page 1

Quiet at the back

[ozbob]

Media Release 21 August 2010

SEQ:  Shush please ..

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport commuters has welcomed the trial of quiet carriages on the Queensland Rail suburban and interurban trains.

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"Quiet carriages are available for commuters on a number of rail systems worldwide (1, 2).  RAIL Back On Track Members have used quiet carriages on these systems and have reported favourable outcomes (3).  The idea for quiet carriages on the Queensland Rail trains has come from commuter feedback particularly through the Queensland Rail Community Reference Groups (4).

"The trial to designate the last carriage as a quiet carriage we are sure will resonate well with many commuters and we hope will become a permanent feature of the rail network. This is an important initiative in the broad sense as it is also a signal that there are considerate behavioural expectations when travelling on public transport for the benefit of the overall community (5)."

"The Queensland Rail Community Reference Groups are an outstanding success.  Actual users of public transport do have informed viewpoints. We suggest that TransLink should set up Community Reference Groups for Bus and Ferry users as well to further improve public transport."

References:

1. http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/Content.aspx?id=62

2. http://www.bahn.com/i/view/GBR/en/trains/overview/mobile-area.shtml

3. http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=600.msg2419#msg2419

4. http://www.queenslandrail.com.au/Community/Pages/CampaignsPrograms.aspx

5. 27 Aug 2009 SEQ: Our trains, our buses! http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=2653.0

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org

[Derwan]

There is a rule in place at the moment.  Bicycles are not allow on trains during peak periods (in peak direction).  I regularly see people ignoring this rule.  No one says anything to them - passengers or staff.

Now we're expecting people to follow a "voluntary" rule?  Good luck with that!

[#Metro]

There is a rule in place at the moment.  Bicycles are not allow on trains during peak periods (in peak direction).  I regularly see people ignoring this rule.

Its called public disobedience. They can make up all the impractical rules in the world, the problem will end when proper places for bikes on trains are put in. Yes it will reduce seating capacity, but if capacity was genuinely the concern, they would fix the network and boost the frequency, something that is only slowly being done.

[Golliwog]

It doesn't take too much. On Paris' RER the train I was in just had an area about the size of from the seating area from the front of a train to the first door which had no seats and was designated as the bike area. Has an added benefit that if in peak there aren't any bikes you cna fit mroe in standing than you could seated and off peak it's not an issue as there is usually no shortage of other seats.

[Derwan]

My point wasn't about the appropriateness (or inappropriateness) of the bicycle rule.  (That's another topic that belongs in another thread.)  The fact is that the rule is in place, people choose to ignore it and nobody does anything about it.

What makes people think a "voluntary" rule will be any different?

[ozbob]

Minister for Transport
The Honourable Rachel Nolan
23/08/2010

Quiet journey for train commuters

Commuters will be able to enjoy a more peaceful journey to and from work with the launch of a three-month 'quiet carriage' trial on South East Queensland train services from today.

Transport Minister Rachel Nolan said the trial was a result of customer feedback regarding quiet areas.

"Commuters have been telling us they would like quiet areas on trains and this trial is a direct response to that feedback," Ms Nolan said.

"Throughout the trial, the last carriage of all train services will be a designated quiet carriage.

"In the quiet carriage, customers are asked to not have loud conversations or use mobile phones, portable music players and other noisy devices.

"This trial initiative will allow commuters to read a book, work on their laptop or simply enjoy a quiet atmosphere while travelling to and from work."

Ms Nolan said success of the trial was dependant on commuters respecting the guidelines of the quiet carriages.

"Customers will be made aware of the quiet carriages through on-board announcements and posters on trains and at stations," she said.

"This initiative can only be successful through the courtesy and consideration of all commuters.

"I urge those who wish to listen to music players, talk on their phone or talk to each other to please choose a regular carriage and leave the trial carriages for those who wish to travel in quiet."

The trial of quiet carriages will be held on all South East Queensland services between 23 August and 22 November.

For more information visit www.queenslandrail.com.au .

==============================================================

[Derwan]

I'm on the last carriage. It's pretty quiet but that's fairly normal anyway. Let's see how it goes in the afternoon.

Oh - one person talking on the phone now. Should stare her down!

[O_128]

School students always seem to use the last carriage the first is a better idea

[ozbob]

Poll at Brisbanetimes --> here!

[ozbob]

From the Brisbanetimes click here!

Commuters hope to feel the serenity

Commuters hope to feel the serenity
August 23, 2010 - 9:47AM


If you're the type of commuter whose blood boils when an iPhone-enabled teen gets on your train and blasts you with the latest Lady Gaga hit, take heart.

The ''quiet carriage'' is on the way in Queensland's south-east.

The state government is trialling the concept for three months from today, following complaints from commuters that mobile music and other devices are shattering their serenity.

Those in the last carriage of all trains will be asked not to talk loudly or use mobile phones and other noisy devices via, ironically, on-board announcements.

Posters will also ask commuters not to have loud conversations or use portable music players and other noisy devices in the last carriage.

"This trial initiative will allow commuters to read a book, work on their laptop or simply enjoy a quiet atmosphere while travelling to and from work,'' Transport Minister Rachel Nolan said.

But it seems there'll be no penalty for breaking the cone of silence, other than a displeased, ''Shhhhh'', from commuters contentedly reading or staring out the window in silence.

''This initiative can only be successful through the courtesy and consideration of all commuters,'' Ms Nolan said.

However opposition transport spokeswoman Fiona Simpson said the state government had targeted the wrong "bad guys".

Although she supported the trial, Ms Simpson said the state government's efforts would be better directed at targeting criminals and vandals, rather than noisy commuters.

"People obviously have the choice of wanting a more peaceful journey, but they have the right to a safe journey,'' Ms Simpson said.

There have been 54 police on the dedicated Railway Squad for at least the past five years.

The state government last week announced it would fund 10 more positions on the squad, with five officers to begin work this year.

"Now they are dribbling out extra police after there has been a freeze for five to six years. They need to go a lot further than that,'' Ms Simpson said.

Robert Dow of commuter lobby group Rail Back on Track said the introduction of "quiet carriages'' may encourage better behaviour among commuters across the public transport network.

"The trial to designate the last carriage as a quiet carriage we are sure will resonate well with many commuters and we hope will become a permanent feature of the rail network,'' Mr Dow said.

"This is an important initiative in the broad sense as it is also a signal that there are considerate behavioural expectations when travelling on public transport for the benefit of the overall community.''

The trial will be held on all south-east Queensland services from today to November 22.

AAP with Marissa Calligeros

[ozbob]

From the Courier Mail click here!

QR offers travel in peace and quiet

QR offers travel in peace and quiet

   * by Ursula Heger
   * From: The Courier-Mail
   * August 23, 2010 10:35PM

COMMUTERS have backed a trial ban on loud mobile phone conversations and noisy portable music players on some Citytrain carriages.

Under the one-month trial beginning yesterday, the last carriage on all services has been designated a quiet zone where commuters will be asked to avoid loud conversations and stop using phones or music devices.

Commuters at Bowen Hills station yesterday backed the plan.

"Sometimes you want to work, read or just think and not have to listen to someone else's loud conversation or music," Corinda commuter Alan Taylor said.

Samford passenger Luke Torrisi said he would use the quiet carriages.

"In the mornings you get some guy with full-blaring music," he said.

The "quiet carriage" concept was launched after irate commuters complained about noise on the Citytrain network.

"This trial initiative will allow commuters to read a book, work on their laptop or simply enjoy a quiet atmosphere while travelling to and from work," Transport Minister Rachel Nolan said.

Commuters will be told about the trial through on-board announcements, and posters on trains and at stations.

But Ms Nolan said the trial would rely on commuters obeying the rules, with no penalties for breaking the silence.

Opposition transport spokeswoman Fiona Simpson said while comfort and noise on trains was an issue for commuters, safety was still the biggest concern.

The trial ends on November 22.

[Golliwog]

Maths fail!

Under the one-month trial beginning yesterday

The trial ends on November 22.

Still, I do like the fact that people seem to be supporting it. I don't think I'm going to be all "must use the quiet car!" all the times, but in particular when I'm on the trains full of noisy school kids is when I'll see it as most beneficial.

[ozbob]

612 ABC Brisbane Breakfast did a report on Quiet Carriages

Anne road- (or is that rail-) tests a new quiet carriage  click --> here!

[#Metro]

I'm starting to get VERY SUSPICIOUS of this 'initiative'.
QR trains are very quiet already, off peak certainly-- nobody catches them because the frequency is so bad!
Then there is the curious no signage, voluntary nature.

What kind of initiative is this? Is it a gimmick?

In short, the government has managed to pull off and get press coverage for something that is pretty much nothing!
Surely welcome, but aren't there big issues to tackle like more trains.

Now I think I have seen everything! Everything BUT major frequency upgrades.

* new stations
* new station painting and upgrades
* new name
* new uniforms
* new paint at the front of the train
* a handful more people in the rail squad
* new trains (but the old ones, where are they?)
*1 new service
* Free water
* Free muffins
* Shoosh carriages
* measuring services by the seat
* adding a bloat factor x2 x5 x seats when announcing new services to make it look like 10x new services are being added

Sorry for being cynical, but waiting 30 minutes for a train is not good!  

[ozbob]

I took part in an interview on ABC Sunshine Coast radio this morning, with Breakfast host John Stokes.  The interview was primarily about 'Quiet Carriages' but I was able to highlight the timetable issues with the Sunshine Coast line timetable and the fact that IMUs or equivalent are needed on all services because of lack of toilets on EMUs etc.

I also managed to put in a plug for more Gympie North services as well as 3 car to 6 cars and better services all round.

Thanks for the interest ABC Sunshine Coast.

[Derwan]

when I'm on the trains full of noisy school kids is when I'll see it as most beneficial.

I'm wondering if any education has been/will be done in schools to prevent the rowdy kids from boarding the last carriage.

Signage would be nice - but would have to be fairly generic, and placed in both front and rear carriages of each 3-car set.  (When I say "generic", you can't say "This is a quiet car!" as it will change depending on the set-up and orientation of the train.)

Also, there have been no announcements from guards relating to the quiet car.

[O_128]

when I'm on the trains full of noisy school kids is when I'll see it as most beneficial.

I'm wondering if any education has been/will be done in schools to prevent the rowdy kids from boarding the last carriage.

Signage would be nice - but would have to be fairly generic, and placed in both front and rear carriages of each 3-car set.  (When I say "generic", you can't say "This is a quiet car!" as it will change depending on the set-up and orientation of the train.)

Also, there have been no announcements from guards relating to the quiet car.

Which i why i suggested the front carriage being better, perhaps signs at stations where the carriage stops?

[colinw]

I personally couldn't give a damn about this initiative..  Its not like the trains are that rowdy anyway.

What I would like to see is an initiative to fix all the QUIET STATIONS on the network.  You know the ones I mean ... you sit there for half an hour and only one train turns up.

[#Metro]

What I would like to see is an initiative to fix all the QUIET STATIONS on the network.  You know the ones I mean ... you sit there for half an hour and only one train turns up.

[somebody]

I personally couldn't give a damn about this initiative..  Its not like the trains are that rowdy anyway.

What I would like to see is an initiative to fix all the QUIET STATIONS on the network.  You know the ones I mean ... you sit there for half an hour and only one train turns up.

And ditto for the station upgrades.

[#Metro]

Colinw & somebody, you might be interested in this link.

Shhhh! 

[Barbar]

I didn't really think the Quiet car initiative was serious until I saw Paul Scurrah on the telly.....I suppose it could work but personally I've found the main creators of carriage "noise" comes from constant announcements by overly enthusiastic guards and/or the annoyingly loud circuit-breaker clunking sound made during carriage overhead power supply transfers.       

[#Metro]

Wow, something close to my views got published in the BrisbaneTimes:
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/opinion/quiet-carriage-not-on-this-train-20100824-13pd4.html

This has to be the biggest non-initiative ever! Much ado about nothing!
Quiet carriages OK, but how about fixing the frequency.

[ozbob]

Shame that they need to publish 'opinion' pieces before it has a real chance.   But that is the way it goes ..

It has worked elsewhere and will work here in time.  The Brisbanetimes poll was very conclusive, 75% of respondents support it.  

Many commuters want it and that is why it has been rolled out.  Good on them for giving it a go, if you are not interested don't ride in the last carriage is my advice.

[STB]

I didn't really think the Quiet car initiative was serious until I saw Paul Scurrah on the telly.....I suppose it could work but personally I've found the main creators of carriage "noise" comes from constant announcements by overly enthusiastic guards and/or the annoyingly loud circuit-breaker clunking sound made during carriage overhead power supply transfers.       

With a six car set, the circuit breaker noise would only be applicable in the second and fifth car.  You would not hear it, or only hear a glimpse of it in the last car.

[Nina M Blackwell]

   I was so excited to get on the last car of the 5.19 Cleveland train at Central this evening.  As I noticed quite a few people with their headphones and cellphones poised, I said out loud "it's great that this is a quiet car."  Once inside I showed the MX article to a lively group sitting in the facing seats and said you probably haven't heard yet..."  Two days into the trial period and there was a tremendous amount of support - to the extent we may need two cars!  Unfortunately, no PA announcement was forthcoming about it being a quiet car and when I alighted at Ormiston I introduced myself as a member of the Community Reference Group to a QR staff member and said, very politely, that if the trial is going to work, they need to make an announcement so people are aware and he said he would pass it on. 

I don't think the Shadow Transport Minister is gaining any points by saying safety is more important than "quiet cars".  Of course, it's important, but this initiative doesn't cost anything and affects many, many more people on a daily basis.  She obviously doesn't commute by train!

Thank you QR!

[ozbob]

Queensland Rail Quiet Carriage --> here

http://www.queenslandrail.com.au/AboutUs/MediaCentre/Campaigns/Pages/QueenslandRailQuietCarriage.aspx


http://www.queenslandrail.com.au/AboutUs/MediaCentre/Campaigns/PublishingImages/Quiet_Carriagev2.gif

Queensland Rail Quiet Carriage

Customers can now enjoy a more peaceful journey to and from work with the launch of a three-month 'quiet carriage' trial on our south-east Queensland network from today.

The trial designates the last carriage of all train services as a quiet carriage, with customers asked to refrain from loud conversations and the use of mobile phones, portable music players and other noisy devices.

The trial is a result of customer feedback and will be promoted through on-board announcements and posters on trains and at stations.

The trial of quiet carriages will be held on all south-east Queensland services between 23 August and 22 November.

[ozbob]

On board EMU49, last carriage, very quiet ... no signs though, no announcements but joined train at Corinda, at Indroo.  Got my mobile phone on silent ...  LOL, probably the only one.  Seems the initiative is being let down with non existing on board support / education at this time.  Why do it if it is not going to be supported?   

[colinw]

If properly announced and sign posted it can work very well indeed.

When I am doing the UK part of my job, I frequently use the quiet cars on First Great Western's Intercity 125 HST services that go through Chippenham where our UK HQ is located. The quiet cars on these services are marked as such, there are also announcements, and people use and respect them.  In general, the noise levels in any cars other than the specially marked "family cars" is quite low.

cheers,
Colin

[O_128]

On board EMU49, last carriage, very quiet ... no signs though, no announcements but joined train at Corinda, at Indroo.  Got my mobile phone on silent ...  LOL, probably the only one.  Seems the initiative is being let down with non existing on board support / education at this time.  Why do it if it is not going to be supported?   

I agree, not everyone reads press releases, Sings where the last carriage stops at stations and on board announcements would be welcome.

Was on the 3:07 cleveland service yesterday was very quiet until morning side where the schoolkids got on

[Golliwog]

It was announced on my train this morning. I rode from Ferny grove to park rd (express enoggera to bowen hills), and we got announcements upon leaving Ferny Grove, leaving Enoggera and whilst at Central. We did have a very enthusiastic guard though, so perhaps they are supposed to but most can't be bothered?

[Emmie]

I find that high pitched beeping when the doors open every couple of minutes much more irritating than the odd one sided mobile conversation.  I think there's a confusion between intercity and local trains here, which says more about the prejudices of non train users than the experience of daily commuters.   

[ozbob]

Outbound on the Corinda flyer, last carriage EMU72.  Very very quiet, like 2 pax LOL.  All the more reason for something for Seniors, plenty of capacity, but that is another thread ...  no quiet carriage signs or announcements since left Roma St.



Later:  just leaving Indroo,  I am only the pax in the 'quiet carriage' ! I think I will yell out 'this is the quiet carriage' ... ' 

[colinw]

I find that high pitched beeping when the doors open every couple of minutes much more irritating than the odd one sided mobile conversation.  I think there's a confusion between intercity and local trains here, which says more about the prejudices of non train users than the experience of daily commuters.    

Indeed, and the UK example I referred to is a true InterCity service, albeit one which runs at the same half hourly frequency as the suburban trains in Brisbane.

[p858snake]

Well it is hard to do onboard signage since the last carriage changes per direction

[ozbob]

"Customers will be made aware of the quiet carriages through on-board announcements and posters on trains and at stations," she said.

From the Ministers Statement --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=4290.msg32334#msg32334

I checked out Central this morning for any posters or other publicity for 'quiet carriage'.  None seen ...

I thought well at least at Central there should be something.  No, nothing that I saw or heard.

[#Metro]

"Customers will be made aware of the quiet carriages through on-board announcements and posters on trains and at stations," she said.

An on board announcement about the quiet car would totally defeat the purpose of the quiet car, by making loud noise everyone can hear.
A generic sign can go in any carriage stating that the very last carriage of the train is the quiet car.