Statement: Seats added in Sunlander changes

[ozbob]

JOINT STATEMENT
http://statements.qld.gov.au/Statement/2013/2/24/seats-added-in-sunlander-changes

Premier
The Honourable Campbell Newman
Minister for Transport and Main Roads
The Honourable Scott Emerson

Seats added in Sunlander changes

Sunlander passengers will have a better and more reliable train service after the Newman Government made changes to the program, saving almost $50 million in the process.

Premier Campbell Newman and Transport and Main Roads Minister Scott Emerson today inspected work underway to revolutionise Queensland's long-distance train fleet at Maryborough's Downer EDI facility.

"Making trains more frequent and comfortable across Queensland will deliver great economic benefits for Queenslanders and our tourism market," Mr Newman said.

"The previous government's handling of this project was a farce with no seats in the original package, a train too long for existing maintenance facilities and no thought for service reliability.

"In true Labor style the project was set to blow out from $189 million to almost $250 million.

"As part of our new program, Downer will be delivering two additional locomotives to allow better maintenance and improve the reliability of the current fleet.

"Our Sunlander will include seats and operate six times a week between Brisbane and Cairns carrying up to 172 passengers a trip.

Mr Emerson said unlike the previous government our $204 million package allows passengers somewhere to sit while reducing the number of carriages to ensure it would fit existing facilities.

"It will include four locomotives, seven passenger cars, fit-out of all trains and refurbishment of the existing Sunlander fleet," Mr Emerson said.

"We are also looking at the option of purchasing additional sleeper carriages.

"Our review has ensured this project is financially viable and delivers the first new Tilt Train in almost a decade.

"Extra features include personal on-demand entertainment systems with flat screens to access news, sport, movies and music from the comfort of their seat.

"Passengers will also experience Australia-first railbeds, which transform from a comfortable seat into a bed for overnight travel."

Mr Emerson said the first of the upgraded trains was on track for delivery in August with all three trains completed by mid next year.

[ENDS] 24 February 2013

[Stillwater]

Mr Emerson is true to form ... saying Labor's plan was for no seats on the Sunlander, LNP is giving Sunlander passengers a place to sit.  He breaks everything down to base politics.  No explanation of the contract arrangements with and without seats.  There was never any suggestion that people would have to stand the whole way to Cairns!

Mr Emerson should focus on the reasons why SC commuters are having the stand Landsborough to Brisbane on inbound peak trains most weekdays.  He invents a false scenario and fashions a bullet to shoot Labor about 'no seats' (in reality, a train without seats in one contract, and the seats in a second contract) while completely ignoring actual travel conditions (crowded SC peak-period trains) where he has the political responsibility.

[ozbob]

Refer to this discussion thread for context ' no seats ' ...  --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=7824.0

[ozbob]

Electric tilt, note double boom gates ...

[ozbob]

Diesel Tilt train ..

[colinw]

That whole seats thing is a disgusting pack of lies which does Emerson and the LNP no credit.

Specialised seats like the ones to be fitted to the new CTT are not something the rollingstock manufacturer supplies. This is no different to the airlines, where you buy an aircraft and then fit it out with the seats, seat-back entertainment system, etc from a specialist supplier of such equipment. QANTAS do not buy planes which come pre-fitted with seats by Boeing or Airbus!

I might add that while Mr Emerson seem happy to crow about providing long distance seats for which were always going to be ordered, he is no closer to providing Sunshine Coast passengers with seats, or even with a train service that is 100% operated by trains.  Nor is he any closer to providing the LNP heartland of the Lockyer Valley with anything even vaguely resembling a usable public transport service, bus or rail, beyond the electric terminus at Rosewood.

And don't even get me started about the hypocrisy of wanting to kill off the inland services where there are little or no alternatives for locals, while ramping up the equally loss making NCL long distance services.

No, I am not against long distance rail, merely pointing out that there is a massive double standard at play here.

These d***heads need to wake up to the fact that they have been in power for nearly a year now. Giving up the election-speak and actually starting to run the state is months overdue now.

[ozbob]

Twitter

Scott Emerson ‏@scottemersonmp

With @theqldpremier inspecting new Sunlander train. Labor ordered them without seats! Now with seats & $50m less. http://t.co/nvjhyePT3Z

[somebody]

That whole seats thing is a disgusting pack of lies which does Emerson and the LNP no credit.

Specialised seats like the ones to be fitted to the new CTT are not something the rollingstock manufacturer supplies. This is no different to the airlines, where you buy an aircraft and then fit it out with the seats, seat-back entertainment system, etc.  QANTAS do not buy planes which come pre-fitted with seats by Boeing or Airbus!

But equally no one buys a plane without making provision for putting seats in it - except cargo operators of course.

Not sure what happened in this case though.

[colinw]

The whole thing is a politically motivated pack of lies.  Of course the damn trains are designed with seat mounting in mind, even if EDI don't provide the actual seats!

Really, how stupid do they think we are to try and peddle such nonsense.

What I am feeling about QLD politics and the transport debate in this state is beyond disgust and contempt.  Seriously wondering why I even care or bother any more.

[ozbob]

Putting the polyticks aside, glad to see the Premier and Minister at Maryborough with hard hats on and in train territory.

Might be a harbinger of some more things to come ...

[somebody]

The whole thing is a politically motivated pack of lies.  Of course the damn trains are designed with seat mounting in mind, even if EDI don't provide the actual seats!

Really, how stupid do they think we are to try and peddle such nonsense.

What I am feeling about QLD politics and the transport debate in this state is beyond disgust and contempt.  Seriously wondering why I even care or bother any more.

What I meant is where the seats actually ordered?

I expect that they were, but the incompetence of the Bligh (which I just typed as Blight!) government was pretty astounding.  At least the new minister is trying.  Seems something the previous minister was stopped from doing.

[colinw]

Ah, ok, gotcha.  Certainly agree about the incompetence of the previous but one minister. Nolan was hopeless. Palacszcuk wasn't minister long enough to get a good idea of how she was going to go.

The original media release for the new CTT set certainly mentions seats, although nothing about procurement:

http://statements.qld.gov.au/Statement/2010/10/27/world-class-trains-for-queensland-supporting-800-jobs-for-maryborough

I also note that the cost of this CTT build makes the cost of running the inland services look modest.

[somebody]

Colin
I went on a tour of Boeing in 2003, may I quote the tour guide

"Do not blame us for the seat spacing, we put the seats where the airlines tell us to"

Its possible planes are delivered seatless, but I suspect many are sold with seats.

Neither engines nor seats are bought from Boeing, but they are almost always delivered with them.

[SteelPan]

As a civilised gentleman     when this new tilt Sunlander starts, [think they said next year], will I be able to book a sleeper compartment for myself from day 1 of the new service?  I hope the seating plans announced today are not at the expense of "sleepers"?

Anyone know, please?

The great unwashed masses must be kept at bay!

[Stillwater]

The section of Mr Emerson's statement that intrigues me refers to refurbishment of the existing Sunlander fleet.  I am getting suspicious that a refurbished existing Sunlander fleet becomes the 'sleeper cubicle option', with the Sunlander Tilt having railbeds. One needs the intellect of Saint Augustine to fathom Mr Emerson's double speak.

[ozbob]

None relevant posts to this thread have been moved/removed ...

Please avoid derailing threads please  ... start a new topic is better, thanks.

[Gazza]

Perth ordered their train seats seperatley:
http://www.mediastatements.wa.gov.au/Pages/StatementDetails.aspx?StatId=3735&listName=StatementsGallop

Local company wins $4million train seating contract

Thursday, 27 November 2003
27/11/03

Local passenger seating company Beurteaux Australia has won a contract worth more than $4million to design and manufacture the seating for the New MetroRail project's 93 new rail cars.

Planning and Infrastructure Minister Alannah MacTiernan said the Henderson-based manufacturer had shown it was up to the challenge of providing seating that was comfortable and attractive as well as highly vandal-resistant.

"Over the past 10 years, Beurteaux has developed sophisticated technology to make it one of the world's leaders in the supply of passenger seating for the marine industry," Ms MacTiernan said.

"It has supplied products to more than 400 vessels operating around the world.

"Beurteaux's successful expansion into rail seating started with the supply of seats for the new Prospector train.

"Its success continues with this contract for the supply of 7,500 seats over the next two years for the 31 three-car sets."

The Minister said the company had used new and diverse approaches to result in vandal and fire resistant seating that did not compromise comfort or styling.

"The seats will feature ergonomically moulded light-weight aluminium frames, cushioning and a specially designed insert," she said.

"They will be covered in the same bright, attractive material that will be used to replace seat covers on our existing trains.

"As well as this, the contract means that the company will be able to employ about 25 extra employees, bringing its total workforce to more than 100 people."

Ms MacTiernan said the seating for the first three-car set would be sent to the EDI Rail-Bombardier facility in Maryborough, QLD, where the new trains are being manufactured.

This would enable EDI Rail-Bombardier to test a three-car set as a fully completed unit.

The remainder of the seating will be progressively installed in the remaining car sets as they arrive in Perth.

The first five three-car sets are scheduled to arrive in Perth early next year before starting services on the Northern Suburbs Railway extension to Clarkson in late 2004.

The final group of railcars will have arrived by September, 2006 in time to start services to Rockingham and Waikiki by December, 2006 and Mandurah in 2007.

Further information on the New MetroRail project is available at http://www.newmetrorail.wa.gov.au or by calling 1800 110 075 (freecall).

Minister's Office - 9213 6400

Besides, why would this be Labors incompetence? Wouldn't it be QRs responsibility?

[ozbob]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-02-24/unions-rally-outside-qlds-community-cabinet/4536984

[SteelPan]

The section of Mr Emerson's statement that intrigues me refers to refurbishment of the existing Sunlander fleet.  I am getting suspicious that a refurbished existing Sunlander fleet becomes the 'sleeper cubicle option', with the Sunlander Tilt having railbeds. One needs the intellect of Saint Augustine to fathom Mr Emerson's double speak.

AGREE, I think rail is getting taken for a ride itself here!  Seems we may sadly be heading toward a "cheap" Sunlander service!

[ozbob]

From the Couriermail click here!

Sleeper berths are to be replaced by first class seats that convert to flat beds on Brisbane-Cairns route

Sleeper berths are to be replaced by first class seats that convert to flat beds on Brisbane-Cairns route

    by: Robyn Ironside
    From: The Courier-Mail
    February 27, 2013 12:00AM

CATCHING a nap on the new Sunlander trains will be a trickier with the State Government doing away with sleeper berths.

The latest model has omitted sleeper cabins in favour of 35 first-class seats that convert into flat beds on the Cairns-Brisbane tourist train.

The current Sunlander has 115 beds in first and second-class sleeper berths, which are regularly booked out for the 30-hour trip.

The feature is promoted on Queensland Rail's website, as one of the "comforts" of the Sunlander.

"See the Queensland coastline unfold as you relish the comfort of a traditional train service, offering overnight sleepers, dining, lounge and club cars," the Sunlander page says.

"Our guests tell us the Sunlander is the highlight of their holiday."

The older Sunlander trains will be retired mid next year, when replacement tilt trains arrive.

Transport Minister Scott Emerson said the buying of sleeper carriages was "under consideration".

"Should private suite carriages be added to the tilt train fleet, we would expect fares to be higher than railbed sleeper fares," he said.

The new Sunlander tilt train models have been steeped in controversy from the start, after the previous Labor government ordered them from Maryborough firm Downer EDI, without seats. A Queensland Rail spokesman said the seats were ordered separately.

Premier Campbell Newman said the new design had saved taxpayers almost $50 million, with the number of passenger carriages reduced from 12 to seven but two new locomotives added to the order.

"In true Labor style the project was set to blow out from $189 million to almost $250 million," Mr Newman said.

"Our Sunlander will include seats and operate six times a week between Brisbane and Cairns carrying up to 172 passengers a trip."

Opposition transport spokeswoman Jackie Trad said the omission of sleepers from the new trains was "just another chaotic decision from a government that cuts before it thinks".

"Building a train that travels overnight between Brisbane and Cairns, without giving passengers the option of a private area to sleep is just ridiculous," Ms Trad said.

"Such a decision will deprive the Sunlander of any chance to succeed."

Mr Emerson said extra features of the trains included "personal on-demand entertainment systems with flat screens" in every seat.

The first of the new Sunlanders is due for delivery in August, with all three trains to be completed by mid-2014 when the current model will be retired.

Existing tilt trains will also be refurbished with the new flat bed feature in first class.

The fast trains do not include a full-recline option for passengers.

The reduction in size of the new trains from original plans, was largely due to the fact a 12-carriage Sunlander would not fit into existing maintenance facilities.

A spokesman for Mr Emerson said they would have had to build new maintenance areas at even greater cost.

[Stillwater]

Is it too much for the government to supply a picture of its rail seat/bed?

[SurfRail]

I have no words. 

[ozbob]

I have been waiting for some good news to post this -->

What the heck, here is another -->

[SteelPan]

I have been waiting for some good news to post this -->

What the heck, here is another -->

The now under construction "new" no sleeper Sunlander is one of the more gaw-dropping decisions I have witnessed from any government - but frankly, regardless of political colours, rail cops poor treatment - year in-year out!

In other parts of the world, true long distance trains, stopped been seating only services well over half a century or more ago.  Only in Queensland would a "new" "state of the art" service, over such a distance and on such "ordinary" track, not include private compartments for people who are prepared to meet the cost of them.

As a very general tourist/travel example, consider the "new" Airbus A380 - among its value added services to the exploding world travel market is private compartments in the air - a world first for those with the means and desire to pay!  A rapidly aging travel market wants quality and is prepared to pay a premium for it, it always has on the Sunlander.

The bigger issue is QR Traveltrain has some wonderful services ie, assets, full of real tourist potential in a dramatically aging travel population marketplace and it heartbreaking to see the utter ineptness of the both the politicians and senior management of the relevant govt entities.  Partner with specialist rail operators and marketers ASAP to give these assets the chance to achieve growth in the marketplace.

[Stillwater]

What do you expect when an urban train funder takes over long-distance Traveltrain operations?  Add to that a Quixote Minister who believes he has provided seats in circumstances where Labor would have had people standing all the way between Brisbane and Cairns.  Pleeeease.

Maybe we need a Q-Line division (our version of V-Line) that will manage medium distance and long distance trains in Queensland.  Let's hope and lobby for some sleeping compartment cars to be added to the Sunlander Tilt service.

[Fares_Fair]

We get people nodding off in our 2 hour journeys... sleepers would make a nice touch.

[petey3801]

Have heard from a very reliable source close to the action that the majority of materials etc required for the sleepers and other cars cancelled (the original order was for 22 cars and 4 locos, now just 7 cars and 4 locos) has already arrived in Maryborough and is already paid for...

[Stillwater]

Well, presume that is how the government is 'saving' $50 million.

[mufreight]

Have heard from a very reliable source close to the action that the majority of materials etc required for the sleepers and other cars cancelled (the original order was for 22 cars and 4 locos, now just 7 cars and 4 locos) has already arrived in Maryborough and is already paid for...

Perhaps a follow on contract for another 7 to 11 cars will be let in the next financial year which would give sufficent rollingstock for the operation of four tilt sets and the capacity to add an additional carriage in times of peak loading and have spare cars to allow for maintenance/refurbishments out of course.