Passenger loading and congestion reports

[pangwen]

One of the problems is that the current standing limit on trains is 20mins

If Coopers Plains-Central is 21 mins on a coastie, and several standees get on at Coopers Plains, but enough people get off at South Bank, South Brisbane and Roma St to give all these people a seat, would that result in a breach of the service standard?

I suppose the assumption I am making is that more people will be getting off at these places than getting on.

While that is an interesting question, the situation you describe in fact does not occur at the moment, since peak hour coast trains don't stop at coopers plains (although some stop at loganlea). I've gotten onto the first offpeak outbound coast train that stops at coopers plains, and that's nowhere near full. I'd imagine it's a similar story for the first inbound coast train to stop at coopers. 

[stephenk]

07:06 ex Ferny Grove to City - estimated 70-75 passengers standing in the 2nd car this morning upon departure from Enoggera. 

Fill the preceding 21min gap QR!

[somebody]

While that is an interesting question, the situation you describe in fact does not occur at the moment,

But the question is: why?  Doesn't seem to make a huge amount of sense to me to stop at Coopers Plains off peak, but not in peak.

[Arnz]

While that is an interesting question, the situation you describe in fact does not occur at the moment,

But the question is: why?  Doesn't seem to make a huge amount of sense to me to stop at Coopers Plains off peak, but not in peak.

For similar reasons why most Nambour/Gympie trains don't stop at Northgate or Petrie in peak.  They run express Caboolture to Bowen Hills and v.v (non-stop).

On a on-topic note, 6:00am Nambour to Roma Street (6-car IMU) scored a 2.5/3 from Landsborough to Glasshouse.  Nearly all seats taken from Glasshouse to Caboolture.  

The notable bit is the decrease of standees from Caboolture onwards to City (as opposed to last year).  Normally there are standees in the Aisles on this service last year, but this time around (with Uni back), the standees are only hanging around the vestibules.  I'd say about a 3/3.5 loading.

[longboi]

While that is an interesting question, the situation you describe in fact does not occur at the moment,

But the question is: why?  Doesn't seem to make a huge amount of sense to me to stop at Coopers Plains off peak, but not in peak.

It would be more sensible to have expresses stopping at Fruitgrove for better connections with bus services. But then again, Coopers has fairly high patronisation.

[somebody]

While that is an interesting question, the situation you describe in fact does not occur at the moment,

But the question is: why?  Doesn't seem to make a huge amount of sense to me to stop at Coopers Plains off peak, but not in peak.

It would be more sensible to have expresses stopping at Fruitgrove for better connections with bus services. But then again, Coopers has fairly high patronisation.

Wouldn't Altandi be far better for that purpose?  It really depends on how many are getting off at South Bank and South Brisbane as to whether the service standard is violated.

There's a case for Altandi to be the stop instead of Coopers full time IMO.

[longboi]

While that is an interesting question, the situation you describe in fact does not occur at the moment,

But the question is: why?  Doesn't seem to make a huge amount of sense to me to stop at Coopers Plains off peak, but not in peak.

It would be more sensible to have expresses stopping at Fruitgrove for better connections with bus services. But then again, Coopers has fairly high patronisation.

Wouldn't Altandi be far better for that purpose?  It really depends on how many are getting off at South Bank and South Brisbane as to whether the service standard is violated.

There's a case for Altandi to be the stop instead of Coopers full time IMO.

I was just thinking of Browns Plains services but yeah now that you mention it, Altandi would be much better.

[#Metro]

Does anyone know what the crush loading for a typical QR Citytrain is?

[ozbob]

Normal max pax desired is around 750 (6 car), short duration 1000 (this is the design limit).  I have estimated loads of 1200 and more on some services a year or so ago, before the extra am peak services added to the Ippy.  These are very solid loads considering that Melbourne (5'3" gauge and bigger carriages) was breeched if trains carried more than 798 pax.  We love our EMUs!!

[curator49]

Getting a bit off the topic here (Passenger Loading and Congestion) but an earlier post was suggesting Altandi as a better stop for expresses than Coopers Plains. I couldn't agree more.

When they changed the Airtrain service to stop at Coopers Plains a couple of years ago I suggested then on this forum that Altandi would be far better than Coopers Plains as there were more bus routes serving a larger catchment area passing Altandi station along Mains Road when compared with the fewer bus services passing near Coopers Plains station along Orange Grove Road.

Regards
curator49

[skippy]

I agree Altandi is a much better choice then Coopers Plains - patronage is similar however bus interchange possibilities infinitely better at Altandi. Going further off topic, a friend's company transferred from the CBD to Eight Mile Plains business park next to the busway station - guess what, she (and a number of collegues) have stopped using public transport. If this the 'benefit' of decentralisation then lets not promote this concept for Brisbane - unless we want PT mode share to decline.

[Derwan]

Monday and Tuesday - 4:29 Shorncliffe Train from Central (the one after the 38-minute gap) remained at a high 3 all the way to Boondall.  Slight reduction to crowding at Banyo.  This is the worst I've seen this service.

This service is getting worse.  Yesterday, people were door-hopping at Fortitude Valley (DS 4).  More got on at Bowen Hills.  At Banyo (19 minutes from Central), 3 of us in the doorway had to get off the train to allow others to detrain.  Crowding dropped down to a 2/3 after that.

We NEED a service to bridge the 38-minute gap!


Edit: Submitted to TransLink:

I regularly catch the 4:29 Shorncliffe Train from Central to Boondall.  Over the past 2 months, patronage on this service has dramatically increased.  Yesterday afternoon people were door-hopping (finding a door with less crowding) at Fortitude Valley.  More people squeezed in at at Bowen Hills.

At Banyo, 3 of us had to step out onto the platform to allow others to detrain.  While this may be common for zone 1 and possibly zone 2 stations, Banyo is in zone 3 and is 19 minutes from Central.

The 4:29 train follows the 3:51 train, creating a 38-minute gap.  This gap would be ridiculous during the off-peak period let-alone the peak period.

While the timetable as a whole need to be adjusted for the longer peak period (which I understand takes time), we desperately need a service to bridge this particular gap and reduce overcrowding.

[O_128]

I was at park road yesterday waiting for the 4:28 cleveland train (ex central) only to see the so called "Bombay express" rocket past with a few standing and some backwards facing seats left. the cleveland train arrived minutes later jam packed with zero seats and the vestibules full many couldn't board it doesnt help when the last train was 24 minutes ago

[STB]

The reason that was given by QR over why the Gold Coast/Airport expresses stop at Coopers Plains was apparently due to an agreement with Airtrain to provide alternative parking opportunities at Coopers Plains.  I'm not sure what the parking levels are like at Altandi, but I must admit, it disturbs me slightly to see a private operator like Airtrain to have that much power.

When I asked if the those expresses could stop at Altandi, they said that it was a TL issue to schedule more buses at Coopers Plains and not a QR issue to stop trains at Altandi to meet existing bus services, and regardless it would be a resounding no, never will happen.  A case of one blaming the other.

[somebody]

The reason that was given by QR over why the Gold Coast/Airport expresses stop at Coopers Plains was apparently due to an agreement with Airtrain to provide alternative parking opportunities at Coopers Plains. 

Coopers plains has parking?

Back to topic, that Shorncliffe service seems pretty unnacceptable.

[longboi]

The reason that was given by QR over why the Gold Coast/Airport expresses stop at Coopers Plains was apparently due to an agreement with Airtrain to provide alternative parking opportunities at Coopers Plains.  I'm not sure what the parking levels are like at Altandi, but I must admit, it disturbs me slightly to see a private operator like Airtrain to have that much power.

When I asked if the those expresses could stop at Altandi, they said that it was a TL issue to schedule more buses at Coopers Plains and not a QR issue to stop trains at Altandi to meet existing bus services, and regardless it would be a resounding no, never will happen.  A case of one blaming the other.

Airtain Citylink weild unbelieveable power over QR, they can and do fine QRP for late running regularly. The Airport stretch of the GC-Airport line gets priority over everything else. Very often to avoid fines, Airport services are given priority to the detriment of other services.

From the top down theres a big fear of Airtrain Citylink Ltd. within QR, no doubt brought on by the political meddling which occured out of building this as a PPP project.

[ozbob]

The fact that Airtrain pull in a ripoff fare for travel on the public part of the network is further proof.  Fortunately punters can break the journey to get around it but what an idiocy. See --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=3247.0

[david]

I was at park road yesterday waiting for the 4:28 cleveland train (ex central) only to see the so called "Bombay express" rocket past with a few standing and some backwards facing seats left. the cleveland train arrived minutes later jam packed with zero seats and the vestibules full many couldn't board it doesnt help when the last train was 24 minutes ago

Also noted something similar this morning. I was on the packed Ipswich-Bowen Hills express (7:32am ex Darra) and the train was running side-by-side an Gold Coast-Airport train at around 7:50am. There were plenty of spare seats on that service from the Gold Coast, while us Ipswich passengers looked on enviously (mind you, they were sitting in luxury on a lovely new SMU, while we got the old EMU.

For those who are politically minded...last time I checked, the majority of seats which the Ipswich line passes through are Labor...

[Derwan]

Edit: Submitted to TransLink:

Just received a phone call from TransLink in response to my feedback.  They will pass it on to QR planners.

Bob - we need a fingers crossed smiley!

[Nightwriter]

I was at park road yesterday waiting for the 4:28 cleveland train (ex central) only to see the so called "Bombay express" rocket past with a few standing and some backwards facing seats left. the cleveland train arrived minutes later jam packed with zero seats and the vestibules full many couldn't board it doesnt help when the last train was 24 minutes ago

Also noted something similar this morning. I was on the packed Ipswich-Bowen Hills express (7:32am ex Darra) and the train was running side-by-side an Gold Coast-Airport train at around 7:50am. There were plenty of spare seats on that service from the Gold Coast, while us Ipswich passengers looked on enviously (mind you, they were sitting in luxury on a lovely new SMU, while we got the old EMU.

For those who are politically minded...last time I checked, the majority of seats which the Ipswich line passes through are Labor...

Before I changed my work start/finish times, this is something that I noticed frequently.   Every time the words 'Bombay Express' were raised, I had to roll my eyes - it might have been the case at one point, but at least they got it fixed!!  Ipswich is still waiting.

[ozbob]

Came in on SMU282 this morning, lead unit on the 7.43am CAB service from Oxley, running about 4 minutes late.  Estimate around 1100 pax past Toowong.   Heavy loadings on at Oxley Indro and Toowoong.  DS scale 5+

[somebody]

Checking the timetable, this is the second most express train in the AM, and it comes from Rosewood as a through service.  Another (more express) train leaves Ipswich 10 minutes earlier.  I wonder if the problem is strong loadings from past Ipswich, or people just prefering this train because it stops at Toowong & Indro?  I doubt the latter reason.  Perhaps being the last through train would bring more Rosewood people onto the train.

Arrival time at Central of 8:06am also doesn't seem to be much of a drawcard.

Fix might be extending the 7:06am train back to Rosewood instead of this train, combined with also extending the 7:32am train.  But that doesn't come for free, and the PM gaps are more important.

[ozbob]

Report received, thanks:

Overcrowding Nambour line.

The Nambour train leaving Roma Street at about 3.59 frequently still has standing passengers as far as Caboolture eg. last Wednesday 31st March.

[Barbar]

Report received, thanks:

Overcrowding Nambour line.

The Nambour train leaving Roma Street at about 3.59 frequently still has standing passengers as far as Caboolture eg. last Wednesday 31st March.

Yeah, and it probably was an SMU...no loo for a 2 hr trip how lucky can a Sunshine Coast commuter get!

[ozbob]

I noted the 3.59pm Nambour service at Roma St this afternoon, EMU 37 / 59 from memory.   I travelled on SMU 265 4.09pm Redbank, bit of  surprise it is normally an IMU (old or new) ....

It is time that the Nambour runs were done with IMUs.  Frankly, if the Gold Coast can get them then run them from VL to Nambour.  Put the pride of the fleet EMU01 on the air train ...

[somebody]

Are there really insufficient IMUs & ICEs to have them on the Nambour runs exclusively?

[Barbar]

Are there really insufficient IMUs & ICEs to have them on the Nambour runs exclusively?

FYI: Last Wednesday I observed what looked like a 3 car IMU signed "TEST TRAIN" rumble thru Landsborough heading south around 3 O-clock in the arvo...if it was an IMU, it's the first time I have seen one operating on the Sunshine Coast line!!

[Arnz]

The 6:00am Nambour to Roma Street service and 5:13pm Roma Street to Nambour service is regularly scheduled as a 6-car IMU.  

The 4:35am and 5:26am Roma Street express in the morning, and 9:26pm and 11pm Nambour express in the evening are regularly scheduled as a 3-car IMU.

IMUs are scheduled on the Sunshine Coast Line, the usual excuse for why there isnt enough ICE and IMUs running is "Theres not enough available", as well as the unreliabilty of the ICEs.  

Yea right    

QRPassenger forced passengers to the front 3-cars back in the "zero-harm" days north of Landsborough, so arguably if QR really cared about "zero-harm" there would be no "non-toilet" equipped trains running up here, period.  Arguably, double-standards seem to apply.

[Barbar]

The 6:00am Nambour to Roma Street service and 5:13pm Roma Street to Nambour service is regularly scheduled as a 6-car IMU.  

The 4:35am and 5:26am Roma Street express in the morning, and 9:26pm and 11pm Nambour express in the evening are regularly scheduled as a 3-car IMU.

IMUs are scheduled on the Sunshine Coast Line, the usual excuse for why there isnt enough ICE and IMUs running is "Theres not enough available", as well as the unreliabilty of the ICEs.  

Yea right    

QRPassenger forced passengers to the front 3-cars back in the "zero-harm" days north of Landsborough, so arguably if QR really cared about "zero-harm" there would be no "non-toilet" equipped trains running up here, period.  Arguably, double-standards seem to apply.

The ICE's need to be replaced end of story, plus the scheduling of IMUs vs what actually shows up are obviously two different things...I asked a QR guard once why this was the case and he said "its up to the yard dispatcher, mate, we get what we get" ....nevertheless I'll keep an eye out for those phantom IMU's trolleybus 

[Arnz]

The ICE's need to be replaced end of story, plus the scheduling of IMUs vs what actually shows up are obviously two different things...I asked a QR guard once why this was the case and he said "its up to the yard dispatcher, mate, we get what we get" ....nevertheless I'll keep an eye out for those phantom IMU's trolleybus 

Just to confirm for ya:

Southbound:

http://qroti.com/cgi/svcinfo.pl?ID=U902&SET=&DAY=Monday+to+Thursday

http://qroti.com/cgi/svcinfo.pl?ID=U908&SET=&DAY=Monday+to+Thursday

http://qroti.com/cgi/svcinfo.pl?ID=T920&SET=&DAY=Monday+to+Thursday

Northbound:

http://qroti.com/cgi/svcinfo.pl?ID=TL11&SET=&DAY=Monday+to+Thursday

http://qroti.com/cgi/svcinfo.pl?ID=UL17&SET=&DAY=Monday+to+Thursday

http://qroti.com/cgi/svcinfo.pl?ID=UL19&SET=&DAY=Monday+to+Thursday

Are the confirmed IMU runs to our knowledge.  The rest of the runs (including ICEs) is pretty much "pot luck/what ever is available".

[Barbar]

Many Thanks trolleybus 

[WTN]

I noticed that QR is doing passenger load surveys again in May/June.  And they're also hiring people to do it.  QR doesn't rely on go card data.  Not surprising because not everyone uses it, and some don't even pay.

[#Metro]

Melbourne --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=3776.0
Perth  ---> http://www.google.com.au/search?q=Perth+Trains+Timetable

[ozbob]

Inbound on the 7.20am service ex Oxley (EMU25),  express Indro to Milton about a DS 4.5 front car at Indro ... main down line (normal for this service)

[ozbob]

Just managed to get on the 7.49am service from Corinda to town (express, stops Indooroopilly and Toowong only).  Approaching a DS 5.   Quick count nudging 950 or so pax.

EMU23 lead unit, doing a great job!

[ozbob]

Noted IMU121 at Fortitude Valley this morning, platform 3 (7.06am),  the 5.26am service ex Nambour by the looks of things. 3 car train with a hefty overload ...  at least there was a toilet.

[somebody]

Boarded a Caboolture - Ipswich train at Bowen Hills at 10:02am yesterday.  DS2.  Quite a few standees which is not expected for an off peak train.

[Derwan]

On the 5:33 from Central to Shorncliffe. Barely rates a 1, yet the 4:29 (after the 38-minute gap) is always around 3 or 4. The frequency really hasn't kept up with the shift in the peak period.

[ozbob]

Travelled into town on the 7.14am down from Oxley. DS4.5 at Toowong, around 900+ pax.  Up front EMU 51.

[somebody]

Used the 2:15am N464 on Sunday morning.  70-80 people on it.  Usually the 3:15am one is busier, so I would have hated to be on that one.