Phase out paper single tickets?

[somebody]

The Airtrain rort that you can potentially do...Well, nobody thinks to do it. I never have before it was mentioned, and its not like it comes up on the comments sections in media articles about the Airtrain.

They can check your balance heading away from the airport, and have done with me.  Heading towards the airport, I'm not sure, but you need to plan ahead to take advantage of the loophole, if it even exists.  They could require you to top up your card if you have less than $-5.

So then, I'm just going to say it sounds like a stupid idea on all levels... that would then make any trip $1 in cost (in practice). How can this forum seriously be suggesting that is a good policy?

That's what I think.

People are over thinking this, scrap paper. the end,

Then what are you going to do about people that walk up to a BT bus with either no balance on their go card, or no go card?

[ozbob]

A significant majority don't think it is a stupid idea at all.  In fact this is one the most clear cut polls ever.

Preloaded go cards are the solution with proper distribution arrangements.  What this poll demonstrates well is that there is a growing level of frustration with the ongoing paper ticket delays.

Bite the bullet and remove paper January 2013.  BT can sell go cards on non-busway routes.  I think there will be a significant attitude change with respect to go card penetration over the next year.

Wouldn't be surprised if go gets to 95% plus for all trips which will mean paper will go, no matter what one thinks.

[Gazza]

Then what are you going to do about people that walk up to a BT bus with either no balance on their go card, or no go card?

BT Buses would sell cards (Either $1+$5, or $1+$10) and do top ups.

[somebody]

Then what are you going to do about people that walk up to a BT bus with either no balance on their go card, or no go card?

BT Buses would sell cards (Either $1+$5, or $1+$10) and do top ups.

Surely it would be $1+$4 = $5 or $1 + $9 = $10

[#Metro]

I think values should be set and round notes.

So: $5 may be possible, but I'm thinking more like $10 is better.

My main concern, and reason why I don't support 100% paperless (yet), is that people will be irritated if they forget their card, they're low on funds and its late at night or they're new or whatever having to fork out $10.

However, if that can be dealt with, then its all go...

That said though, I think all cash fares should be rounded up to the nearest 50c or $1.
Makes cash handling simpler.

A question- will TL need to issue a receipt, by law, for these cards purchased on buses etc? Because if it does, then you still would need to retain the paper ticket machine anyway to print these receipts....

[ozbob]

A question- will TL need to issue a receipt, by law, for these cards purchased on buses etc? Because if it does, then you still would need to retain the paper ticket machine anyway to print these receipts....

A trip/journey doesn't generate a physical receipt as such.  If it is a concern with go cards purchased on buses then they can be stamped ' this is a receipt ' ...

[Gazza]

The equipment will still sit there. It will just be used a lot less.
It's like how AVVMs still retain paper for top up receipts.

I think values should be set and round notes.

True actually. So as simon said, a $5 with $4 preloaded, or a $10 with $9 preloaded.

I'd support $5 at the entry level because it gets people go-ing and it at least covers the first trip, and sounds psychologically cheap.

My main concern, and reason why I don't support 100% paperless (yet), is that people will be irritated if they forget their card, they're low on funds and its late at night or they're new or whatever having to fork out $10.

Can see what you mean, but the paper system shouldn't exist purely to avoid annoying people in rare situations, or as a redundant backup to a largely solid smartcard system.

My 'test' on whether a new system/idea/etc works is how 'extreme' you need to go before it starts not working. If a certain situation could be daily/happen at any time easily, then the system/idea needs more work.
If the situation is convoluted, and needs a few things to go wrong at once, then the system/idea is probably 'right'.

Its like how when go card first came out people hated the idea of the fixed fare because it might mean if they forget to touch off with low credit, they go into the negative, cant make a connection, and get stranded.
Yeah, can happen in theory, but, as above, it needs a few things to go wrong at once. But the benefits of fixed fares for revenue protection purposes outweigh the benefits.
Plus people aren't getting stranded en-mass.

Go Cards live in wallets anyway don't they? If you forget your wallet, you've forgotten everything anyway.

[STB]

A question- will TL need to issue a receipt, by law, for these cards purchased on buses etc? Because if it does, then you still would need to retain the paper ticket machine anyway to print these receipts....

A trip/journey doesn't generate a physical receipt as such.  If it is a concern with go cards purchased on buses then they can be stamped ' this is a receipt ' ...

Wouldn't you get a receipt anyway from purchase if you could program it for any brand new cards purchased on the bus/ferry, touching it to the reader for the first time would generate a receipt being issued.  Just as you get a receipt everytime you do a top up on a bus/ferry?

EDIT: I should add that you do get a receipt when you buy a Go Card from a retailer already, so it shouldn't be any different.

[#Metro]

Can see what you mean, but the paper system shouldn't exist purely to avoid annoying people in rare situations, or as a redundant backup to a largely solid smartcard system.

Yes, but this has to be balanced against what people want in the system etc. There will be push-back if it is not done properly and there will obviously be complaints about that.

Its like how when go card first came out people hated the idea of the fixed fare because it might mean if they forget to touch off with low credit, they go into the negative, cant make a connection, and get stranded.

Yes, but in the same spirit as in my previous paragraph, there was am amnesty period in that too.

Yeah, can happen in theory, but, as above, it needs a few things to go wrong at once. But the benefits of fixed fares for revenue protection purposes outweigh the benefits.

It's not just about what weighs what. There needs to be a transition and people do lose stuff from time to time, there still needs to be concrete reasons investigated as to why 20% of people would stick with paper even though it costs significantly more. 20% is a pretty big number over the entire TL Network, you don't want to just go in gung-ho and have a botch up splashed all over the front page of the Courier Mail.

Plus people aren't getting stranded en-mass.

As I said, 20%....

Go Cards live in wallets anyway don't they? If you forget your wallet, you've forgotten everything anyway.

Not necessarily.

[Gazza]

It's not just about what weighs what. There needs to be a transition and people do lose stuff from time to time

I'm still not convinced.
There is a lot of stuff you can lose in day to day life that potentially costs money if caught without...Airline tickets, car licences, credit cards, hotel room card etc etc.

Why is it the job of the PT ticketing system to be babysitting these people?

there still needs to be concrete reasons investigated as to why 20% of people would stick with paper even though it costs significantly more.

True, but I think the main reasons have been well and truly identified in this thread.

[#Metro]

I'm still not convinced.

My point isn't to convince you. You either accept or don't - point still stands and issues raised needs to be dealt with.

There is a lot of stuff you can lose in day to day life that potentially costs money if caught without...Airline tickets, car licences, credit cards, hotel room card etc etc.

There is.

Why is it the job of the PT ticketing system to be babysitting these people?

True, but I think the main reasons have been well and truly identified in this thread.

Biased question much? 20% is not a small fraction - works out to be around 30 000 people in SEQ per average weekday. *BAM* overnight you go from paper to plastic, that is a lot of p%ssed  off people to deal with. TransLink being a service agency, a monopolistic service delivery organisation and also a public service agency where votes are ultimately involved can't go about patronising it's customers - there needs to be a transition period, the reasons for 20% sticking with paper need to be concretely, and unequivocally determined and something put in place to cover, and there needs to be some form of consultation and public education phase if this is where we are heading.

If you are going to proceed, proceed slowly and carefully.

[Gazza]

there needs to be a transition period, the reasons for 20% sticking with paper need to be concretely, and unequivocally determined and something put in place to cover, and there needs to be some form of consultation and public education phase if this is where we are heading.

Isn't a public education campaign also an axiom?

[ozbob]

Media release 26 December 2011

SEQ:  Time to go, go and go!

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers calls for the eventual phase out of paper ticketing.

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"RAIL Back On Track Members have been concerned with the impacts of the fare price increases particularly with single paper tickets.  Paper ticket users are paying around 30 to 40% more for travel than they need too, and miss out on free travel with the new ten journey cap and off peak discounts. Paper single tickets also have time limitations which can add significantly to fare costs as well. Paper ticket buyers also add considerably to the journey time for buses."

"Go card usage rates across the system are presently around 80% according to the TransLink Tracker (1), although our 2011 Public Transport Passenger Survey with many daily public transport users had go card usage around 93% (2)."

"It might be worthwhile to survey present paper single users to determine the reasons why they haven't yet moved to the go card, although is it likely that with the fare structure changes from the 2nd January 2012 usage rates will probably climb as it is."

"The eventual removal of single paper tickets will save money, as a duplicated ticket system will no longer be required and will significantly improve bus trip times due to quicker passenger loading overall."

"If paper tickets are removed much better availability of preloaded go cards will be needed together with focussed user education campaigns. For example, passengers purchasing single paper tickets could be provided with information on the go card. The TransLink Access Pass is available for passengers unable to use a go card because of physical and/or cognitive impairment, and there is the Vision Impairment Travel Pass for legally blind passengers (3,4). "

Some considerations moving forward:

* Retain present go card pricing $5 deposit, $5 travel for $10.

Or

* Do away with the $5 deposit, charge $1 fee for go card and have available $4 for travel for $5 cost, $9 travel for $10.  This was supported by a poll at RAIL Back On Track (5).

And

* The sale of pre-loaded Go Cards on off-busway buses, for example $5 and $10 go cards would be available on buses.

* The rounding of cash paper ticket fares to the nearest 20c to simplify cash handling during transition.

* The eventual phase-out of paper ticketing and a move to a 100% go card ticketing environment by January 2013.

* Busway stations to become pre-paid entry only for buses.  Go cards can be topped up/purchased at the ticket machines at the bus stations.

* All bus operators allow go card top-ups on designated feeder and suburban bus routes.


References:

1.  TransLink Tracker  http://translink.com.au/resources/about-translink/reporting-and-publications/2011-12-quarterly-report-jul-to-sep.pdf

2.  2011 Public Transport Passenger Survey  http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=7144.0

3.  TransLink Access Pass   http://translink.com.au/tickets-and-fares/other-tickets/special-access-passes/translink-access-pass

4.  Vision Impairment Travel Pass   http://translink.com.au/tickets-and-fares/other-tickets/special-access-passes/vision-impairment-travel-pass

5.  Phase out single paper tickets?  http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=7277.0

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[Fares_Fair]

Paper tickets are much higher in price due to deliberate government policy and for no other reason.  They cannot be bought as retun fares either. Clearly the government wants to get rid of paper tickets anyway. This move will not be popular with the general community who would prefer paper tickets for occasional use, but not at deliberately jacked up prices.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[STB]

Paper tickets are much higher in price due to deliberate government policy and for no other reason.  They cannot be bought as retun fares either. Clearly the government wants to get rid of paper tickets anyway. This move will not be popular with the general community who would prefer paper tickets for occasional use, but not at deliberately jacked up prices.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

They can still use a Go Card for occasional use as well.  I don't think that's a good enough excuse nowadays as we all move towards newer ticketing technologies.  Also, how else do you encourage people to switch from paper to a Go Card (not counting any additional things such as caps which we will ALL get after the Jan 2012 structure change.  Remember, 10 journeys then it's free - that is a form of capping.).

I have to ask Fare's Fair, are you one of these people that hates the Go Card and would prefer the 'dinosaur' of ticketing - paper, simply because you've been conditioned to use paper all your life?  Are you a technophobe, or someone who hates change, as to me you give off that vibe at times.

[#Metro]

Paper tickets are much higher in price due to deliberate government policy and for no other reason.  They cannot be bought as retun fares either. Clearly the government wants to get rid of paper tickets anyway. This move will not be popular with the general community who would prefer paper tickets for occasional use, but not at deliberately jacked up prices.

I would like to see paper phased out but I voted to retain it as my point is more about what is acceptable for a transition and what the covering arrangements are for that 20% (not a small number!) who clearly have some reason that is keeping them on paper. I'm happy to have tickets priced higher as if they were not, there would be no incentive for people to move to the card - defeating the entire purpose of introducing a card system in the first place!

Provided that the system is not overcooked, any changes are pilot tested first and there are covers and transitions from current arrangements, then I'd be happy to go to 100% electronic ticketing. (I actually like the simplicity, unlike Melbourne or Sydney which have huge mess and need a gigantic manual, and I disagree that frequent users should get a discount- I mean they are going to use the service anyway, discount or not)

Once this is done, I think that should spell the end of the ticketing/fares/zones blah blah hopefully. Bring on the Frequent Trains and Buses!

[Gazza]

They can still use a Go Card for occasional use as well.

No, no, according to FF we have to maintain the paper ticket system across all of SEQ because there are some people who wouldn't like having an extra card in their wallet  

This move will not be popular with the general community who would prefer paper tickets for occasional use, but not at deliberately jacked up prices.

Agree with STB above. Why should anyone 'prefer' paper? Why should anyone have a particular emotional attachment to it?

In Melbourne, people bitched about Metcard being bought in, even though Sydney had been using its magnetic stripe AFC system 19 years earlier.
Now with Myki, people suddenly are emotionally attached to Metcard, and don't want to change to Myki.

People in HK have been using Octopus Card for 14 years.

WTF is wrong with this country?!

People who buy a paper ticket every time on the bus, and hold up 50 other pax clearly only care about their own needs.

I can totally acknowledge what Simon etc have to say with respect to people potentially rorting etc, but it can be worked around IMO.

But arguments like "Someone might lose their card late at night and be annoyed about replacing it", or "People dont want an extra card to carry" are a bit pathetic IMO and are clearly  scraping the bottle of the barrel, desperate for any reason to say 'no'.
People complain about the "nanny state", yet when they make statements like this, it seems to be exactly how they want to be treated  

Paper tickets are much higher in price due to deliberate government policy and for no other reason.

Because paper ticket users are a burden on the system compared to an all electronic system.

Why else would cities be making the jump to Smartcards, if there weren't efficiencies in doing so?

The more people paying electronically, the more efficient it becomes. Simple.

[O_128]

Totally agree Gazza, Just scrap paper, I'm sick of having to wait on a bus so someone can buy paper.

[david]

Starting January 2012, the fare differential between a paper ticket and a go card for a one zone trip would be $2 (adult).

So the proposal outlined in the media release, people would actually be SAVING money by buying a go card for $1, not mentioning the extra money that will be saved for future trips. Also, a one zone trip will cost $4.50 with paper, so really it is only 50c more under the RBoT proposal. A fair deal IMO.

Honestly, I quite like how the system is set up at the moment ($5 deposit, $5 credit), but there are obviously some people who need the extra push along, so I suppose this will have to do. Remember that the $5 deposit is actually to cover you in case you go into the red, something that paying $1 for a go card won't do. If this is implemented, I would like to see a system where $5 is automatically deducted on the next top up to cover the deposit, or something similar. I'm sure there are some creative brains that can work that one out.

[dwb]

People who buy a paper ticket every time on the bus, and hold up 50 other pax clearly only care about their own needs.

I can totally acknowledge what Simon etc have to say with respect to people potentially rorting etc, but it can be worked around IMO.

But arguments like "Someone might lose their card late at night and be annoyed about replacing it", or "People dont want an extra card to carry" are a bit pathetic IMO and are clearly  scraping the bottle of the barrel, desperate for any reason to say 'no'.
People complain about the "nanny state", yet when they make statements like this, it seems to be exactly how they want to be treated  

Paper tickets are much higher in price due to deliberate government policy and for no other reason.

Because paper ticket users are a burden on the system compared to an all electronic system.

Why else would cities be making the jump to Smartcards, if there weren't efficiencies in doing so?

The more people paying electronically, the more efficient it becomes. Simple.

If you've ever gotten on the Glider at night you'll know that being prepaid and not allowing people to top up their go card actually slows everyone down. During the day there are other routes and other places to top up, but this gets harder at night.

The transit system really shouldn't be making it hard for people.

I agree with a shift towards electronic ticketing, but there needs to be something for those who lose/forget their card, don't have an appropriate balance or are new users to the system.

Like Bob says, I don't want to have to buy a new go card bc BT won't do top ups on board.

I don't want to buy a new card cos the credit hasn't updated yet.

I don't want to buy a new card if I've left my wallet somewhere and I only have cash.

The system is not suffering that much from offering paper singles... in fact it is EARNING the system EXTRA revenue. That is totally fine by me.

Translink should approach it as a sales exercise, to convert those who regularly buy singles to get go, they shouldn't force everyone to... not when there is no single use product available for sale.

[somebody]

Perhaps we should be raising the issue of BT buses not allowing top ups?

Must say though, that I'd hate for it to become common.  Should we institute a charge (say 50c?) to top up on a bus?

[ozbob]

Perhaps we should be raising the issue of BT buses not allowing top ups?

Already have, I think the solution is to allow BT top ups on designated routes only.  Eg.  467/468 type routes.  Those feeding stations from the suburbs are very logical routes to allow topups.

Other operators can manage, what is so special about BT??   

[#Metro]

If you've ever gotten on the Glider at night you'll know that being prepaid and not allowing people to top up their go card actually slows everyone down. During the day there are other routes and other places to top up, but this gets harder at night.

The transit system really shouldn't be making it hard for people.

I agree with a shift towards electronic ticketing, but there needs to be something for those who lose/forget their card, don't have an appropriate balance or are new users to the system.

Like Bob says, I don't want to have to buy a new go card bc BT won't do top ups on board.

I don't want to buy a new card cos the credit hasn't updated yet.

I don't want to buy a new card if I've left my wallet somewhere and I only have cash.

The system is not suffering that much from offering paper singles... in fact it is EARNING the system EXTRA revenue. That is totally fine by me.

Translink should approach it as a sales exercise, to convert those who regularly buy singles to get go, they shouldn't force everyone to... not when there is no single use product available for sale.

I agree with Dwb and its the point I have been trying to get across to Gazza (although he seems to have focused on highlighting that we shouldn't be nannying people) rather than actually offer a alternative procedure...

The credit updating thing is REALLY irritating.

[dwb]

If you've ever gotten on the Glider at night you'll know that being prepaid and not allowing people to top up their go card actually slows everyone down. During the day there are other routes and other places to top up, but this gets harder at night.

The transit system really shouldn't be making it hard for people.

I agree with a shift towards electronic ticketing, but there needs to be something for those who lose/forget their card, don't have an appropriate balance or are new users to the system.

Like Bob says, I don't want to have to buy a new go card bc BT won't do top ups on board.

I don't want to buy a new card cos the credit hasn't updated yet.

I don't want to buy a new card if I've left my wallet somewhere and I only have cash.

The system is not suffering that much from offering paper singles... in fact it is EARNING the system EXTRA revenue. That is totally fine by me.

Translink should approach it as a sales exercise, to convert those who regularly buy singles to get go, they shouldn't force everyone to... not when there is no single use product available for sale.

I agree with Dwb and its the point I have been trying to get across to Gazza (although he seems to have focused on highlighting that we shouldn't be nannying people) rather than actually offer a alternative procedure...

The credit updating thing is REALLY irritating.

It is... but for me the biggest issue is actually refusing new transit users from the system being bad business practice. I'm sure I read on Jarret Walker's blog that a huge proportion of customers on a transit system are new ones... irregular ones, travellers etc. While I think it is good to promote as many of these on to Go card as early as possible, I don't think forcing ALL of them, the first time they try to set foot on a service is necessarily a good idea.... I could probably live with it if paper tix were replaced by go card in the long run, but I really see no MAJOR issue at the moment as to why paper absolutely NEEDS to go... it is more about promoting the alternative and educating people, rather than forcing them. I would go back to perhaps Bus drivers can be asked instead when issuing single tickets to ask if customers would like fries with that? ie a go card, or at least "something along the lines of "If you would like a cheaper ticket, please consider purchasing Go card, here is a brochure that tells you where you can buy it"...

[dwb]

Perhaps we should be raising the issue of BT buses not allowing top ups?

Already have, I think the solution is to allow BT top ups on designated routes only.  Eg.  467/468 type routes.  Those feeding stations from the suburbs are very logical routes to allow topups.

Other operators can manage, what is so special about BT??   

The point is not to allow people to regularly charge up on their local bus, as there are places in the city/destination REGULAR charge ups can be done. The point is to allow people who don't have autocharge nor a sufficient balance to add money when they get a red beep, rather than kicking them off the bus!!

[Gazza]

I don't want to buy a new card cos the credit hasn't updated yet.

If your top up hadn't come through yet, you'd do a normal top up on the bus. You wouldn't buy a whole new card  

I could probably live with it if paper tix were replaced by go card in the long run

Lol, this is the whole point of this topic and proposal. To see paper tickets replaced.
At this stage, I'm not too desperate for the change to happen, I'm happy to see the impact of the fare increase, and perhaps even wait to see what happens in Melbourne.

I would go back to perhaps Bus drivers can be asked instead when issuing single tickets to ask if customers would like fries with that? ie a go card, or at least "something along the lines of "If you would like a cheaper ticket, please consider purchasing Go card, here is a brochure that tells you where you can buy it"...

I agree with this  as an initial move. Just give out flyers the same size as what they hand out when there is a busway closure, station closure etc.

[BrizCommuter]

Just to add to this discussion:

Moscow Metro has eradicated paper tickets. For infrequent users, the throwaway mifare ultralight smart card is used. This is a cheaper to produce version of the go card (and possibly more secure if the go card is still the "cracked" mifare classic). The cost of the mifare ultralight is far less than the price difference between go card single and paper single fares.

[dwb]

I don't want to buy a new card cos the credit hasn't updated yet.

If your top up hadn't come through yet, you'd do a normal top up on the bus. You wouldn't buy a whole new card  

Not really.... that is against current policy and I haven't seen anything from RBOT seeking a change to that policy (of BT not doing topups) rather simply the removal of paper tickets. One cannot assume/infer one from the other.

[Gazza]

One cannot assume/infer one from the other.

I've raised it.

http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=6757.0

[Gazza]

http://www.mynrmacommunity.com/motoring/2009/01/13/a-cashless-sydney-harbour-bridge/

Fun little blog to read. It dates back from 2009, when the Sydney Harbour Bridge finally went all electronic.

Its full of wingey comments from people upset they can no longer pay cash (And your typical ones that roads should all be free anyway)
And hillarious ones about people who "got stressed/confused, drove into the buslane, and then copped a fine for doing so"....umm, no you are clearly just a sh%t driver.

My favourite one is someone who was so pathetic as to pretend to be a foreigner supposedly put out by the all electronic system:

Jun on April 16, 2010 at 2:10 pm said:

For a foreign and first time travelor to Sydney, it is unfriendly and unfamilar system to use with big fine. I don't visit Sydney again.

You can see where I'm going with this

Hate comments etc for people saying "its all too hard", and "I'm not good with technology"....It ignores the reality that the vast majority have moved to a new electronic tolling and have been able to go through the set up process.

Like as if I'm supposed to feel sorry for people who haven't bothered to keep some sort of pace with technology, which has been on the rise since the 80s (Before I was even born).
Or that sticking a tag to your windscreen, or touching a card to pay a fare is even on the same level as say writing the code for a website, or preparing a spreadsheet formula.

Let me be clear, I'm sympathetic to people who have actual issues with the physical use of the technology, but that is exactly why there is the TL access pass etc.

Baby Boomers like Mufreight and Ozbob are here using the internet are they 

[dwb]

http://www.mynrmacommunity.com/motoring/2009/01/13/a-cashless-sydney-harbour-bridge/

Fun little blog to read. It dates back from 2009, when the Sydney Harbour Bridge finally went all electronic.

Its full of wingey comments from people upset they can no longer pay cash (And your typical ones that roads should all be free anyway)
And hillarious ones about people who "got stressed/confused, drove into the buslane, and then copped a fine for doing so"....umm, no you are clearly just a sh%t driver.

My favourite one is someone who was so pathetic as to pretend to be a foreigner supposedly put out by the all electronic system:

Jun on April 16, 2010 at 2:10 pm said:

For a foreign and first time travelor to Sydney, it is unfriendly and unfamilar system to use with big fine. I don't visit Sydney again.

You can see where I'm going with this

Hate comments etc for people saying "its all too hard", and "I'm not good with technology"....It ignores the reality that the vast majority have moved to a new electronic tolling and have been able to go through the set up process.

Like as if I'm supposed to feel sorry for people who haven't bothered to keep some sort of pace with technology, which has been on the rise since the 80s (Before I was even born).
Or that sticking a tag to your windscreen, or touching a card to pay a fare is even on the same level as say writing the code for a website, or preparing a spreadsheet formula.

Let me be clear, I'm sympathetic to people who have actual issues with the physical use of the technology, but that is exactly why there is the TL access pass etc.

Baby Boomers like Mufreight and Ozbob are here using the internet are they 

SOrry it is not at all comparable, you can post pay by phone for tolls, you can't for the bus... the system you are suggesting for the bus (no go card no boading) would be like saying that u can't use the road without pre-organising the tag... if they implemented that system (just like there will be on go) there would be two things 1) chaos and 2) a whole lot of p%ssed  off people.

Thank you for bringing up the analogy bc it shows the flaws in your proposal perfectly.

[HappyTrainGuy]

No card no boarding. No rego no driving.

[ozbob]

No card no boarding. No rego no driving.

LOL  hey, come out west ... or head down Ikea way ...

[HappyTrainGuy]

No ticket hello fine. No rego hello fine 

[somebody]

No card no boarding. No rego no driving.

Sorry, but I think that suggestion is just daft.

As dwb points out, even electronically tolled roads provide alternatives, just at a price differential.  A differential based on a non-price disincentive seems to be pretty daft also IMO.

[HappyTrainGuy]

A toll road is a small bit of extra infrastructure while PT is a whole network.

You pay money to buy your car
You pay money to buy your gocard

You pay rego to drive your car on the public roads.
You pay credit on your gocard to use public transport.

[verbatim9]

Reprogram go card readers to allow for Visa Paywave, Mastercard Paypass as well as NFC Google Wallet. No need for all those extra cards and great for casual users and tourists alike.

[BrizCommuter]

Reprogram go card readers to allow for Visa Paywave, Mastercard Paypass as well as NFC Google Wallet. No need for all those extra cards and great for casual users and tourists alike.

This is already planned in London (for Paywave and Paypass). Oyster will still be available.

[dwb]

A toll road is a small bit of extra infrastructure while PT is a whole network.

You pay money to buy your car
You pay money to buy your gocard

You pay rego to drive your car on the public roads.
You pay credit on your gocard to use public transport.

This makes me laugh

[STB]

I posted this in the Myki thread but will repost here as well as it is relevant to the Go Card and phasing out paper tickets completely, which is what Metcard is effectively equal to.

One common theme coming from the comments in that news article regarding a full roll out of Myki - what about the tourists/visitors?  To me, that's a dead argument that is no longer relevant.  As a tourist to Melbourne in the past and quite possibly in the future, I had to get my head around Metcard, I can certainly get my head around Myki.  That complaint I now find quite insulting and ignorant.