88 Bus Route was Rumour: 88 8 mile plains to Indro

[somebody]

Looks like the 88 is fulfilling what was announced here: http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=4069.0

Seems I said pretty much the same things back then.  Maybe we should have put out a release then, but the plans seemed to vague to say anything.  Grrr! I guess I need to be annoyed with myself (a bit) for not suggesting the 425 BUZ, or something like that.

Perfectly legitimate transport option, financially responsible too.

Options which increase capacity by reducing seats are not attractive to most people, and I would agree with them.

[#Metro]

The people who run the system to make the decisions are free to run the system as they wish.
Just pointing out that the efficiencies in both labour and vehicle will be given up for that, and in the long term
their budgets will give them little choice but to accept those efficiencies.

[ozbob]

From Queensland Parliament Hansard

http://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/view/legislativeAssembly/hansard/documents/2010.pdf/2010_11_23_Qtime.pdf

Bus Services

Hon. RG NOLAN (Ipswich—ALP) (Minister for Transport) (10.24 am): I am delighted to inform
the House that from Monday, 13 December Brisbane's newest high-frequency bus service—route 88—
will ease congestion in Brisbane's southern and western suburbs by adding more than 41,000 seats per
week. Route 88 will run from Eight Mile Plains to Indooroopilly via the South East Busway, Captain Cook
Bridge, Coronation Drive and Moggill Road. It will significantly ease congestion on the South East
Busway.

This $4.8 million-a-year service will run every 10 minutes in peak and every 15 minutes off-peak
between 6 am and 7 pm every day. This high-frequency, prepaid route will give people a one-seat trip
between the south and west of Brisbane in about 45 minutes. It will service the Wesley Hospital, Griffith
University, the Milton business precinct and Brisbane Boys College, as well as shopping centres at
Garden City, Toowong and Indooroopilly.

It will ease loading pressures on current popular routes, and by using the Captain Cook Bridge it
avoids adding traffic to busy busway stations including Mater Hill, South Bank and the Cultural Centre.
Route 88 will provide a faster trip for commuters as it will run express between the Buranda and King
George Square busway stations via the Captain Cook Bridge. It will cut up to 20 minutes travel time from
the west to the south using the Great Circle Line bus services.

This is the third high-frequency bus route added to the network in a year. It follows the success of
the CityGlider, which is 50 per cent funded by the state, which carries about 35,000 people a week. As
part of the route 88 bus package we are also introducing 13 new buses and 23 new drivers.

Last year the Bligh government added over 165,000 weekly seats to Brisbane buses. Here today
I am announcing 41,000 additional weekly seats to make public transport a more attractive choice for
commuters. We have shown that we can deliver on our public transport and we are seeing the results
through increased patronage. Bus patronage has skyrocketed, from 48 million to 77 million in six years.

Route 88 will cater for the increased demand for faster and more direct services throughout the city.

[ozbob]

http://www.translink.com.au/travel-information/service-updates/bulletin/1289964278

New pre-paid bus service route 88
Print resize up resize reset resize down Resize text
Get on board route 88

Route 88 is a new high frequency, pre-paid service starting on Monday 13 December.

It will travel between Indooroopilly and Eight Mile Plains via the Captain Cook Bridge and South East Busway.

Route 88 operates every 10-15 minutes from 6am until 7pm, every day.

As a result of this new service, minor running time adjustments to route 111, 444 and 443 will apply when school returns in early 2011.

Route 88 is a pre-paid service that offers rear door boarding for go card users.

Highlighting mine ..

POLL: Double door boarding --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=4787.0

[ozbob]

Is there any real point to the 88?   Am I missing something?   It is just adding to congestion on the west, and at time when a stepped up rail frequency will be available around the clock from Indroo anyway .. 

Waste of valuable resources ?

[somebody]

Is there any real point to the 88?   Am I missing something?   It is just adding to congestion on the west, and at time when a stepped up rail frequency will be available around the clock from Indroo anyway .. 

Waste of valuable resources ?

Re: Western services, you may be missing that the start of the new timetable may be 6 months off.

Is certainly a waste of resources on the western side.

[somebody]

The inaction of Translink is again breathtaking.  They obviously like having the 425/430/435/450/453/454/460 routes running relatively empty between the city and Indro, or the buffoons would be solving the !@#$ city stop location problem!

So there.

[Otto]

Is there any real point to the 88?   Am I missing something?   It is just adding to congestion on the west, and at time when a stepped up rail frequency will be available around the clock from Indroo anyway .. 

Waste of valuable resources ?

I can't see the point with this service... There are many more areas screaming out for a better and frequent service, and all TL can do is add more congestion to services that already are quite frequent..

[somebody]

What about the SE busway side of the service?  Do people see merit in that?

[ozbob]

What about the SE busway side of the service?  Do people see merit in that?

I don't get out on the SE Busway that much, but when I have there does seem to be plenty of buses.  Peak times though the 88 will be in the thick of it out on the roads that lack true bus priority.  Is that smart?

I would much prefer to see the GCL bus running 7 days a week for some of the money spent on this.  Maybe if it was just to town would be a bit better ...

[#Metro]

Hmm. A bit skeptical. I can see why they are doing it.
I guess the problem will be the Riverside Expressway and Stagnation Drive! Good Luck!!!!

Seriously, this single direct trip avoid-transfers-like-the-plague might not be the way to go...

[somebody]

I don't get out on the SE Busway that much, but when I have there does seem to be plenty of buses. 

On weekends, the 111 BUZ and 555 are the only services for Holland Park West busway station to the city, and at Greenslopes you only add the infrequent 170.  Even heading to Buranda, which has a lot of buses, they all come from different locations in the CBD, so it may as well be just the 111 in that direction unless you are prepared to change.  130/140/150 all non-stop these locations.  134/155 also non stop IIRC. 

Peak times though the 88 will be in the thick of it out on the roads that lack true bus priority.

If you are referring to the Riverside Expressway, I think it is necessary.  I'm not convinced about Coro.

[#Metro]

Bus lane bus lane bus lane     

[somebody]

There are many more areas screaming out for a better and frequent service, and all TL can do is add more congestion to services that already are quite frequent..

Where are you thinking of with this comment?  You've commented before that you work out of Carina, so I would be guessing 180, Winstanley St/Samuel St and Balmoral?  And 300 BUZ.

[#Metro]

There is a point there. Maybe it would be better if that money went into a 100 and 450 BUZ.

[beauyboy]

Oh brother. Let me get this right they are spending $4.8 million a year basicly duplicating existing routes therefore adding to the congestion on the respective routes.  While I always welcome PT upgrades I think this route will only add to the confusion of general users of the busway. I also believe the fact that this route finishes at 7pm at night will do little to add to the conferdence of the general public unless they show the 444 and the 111 onto the 88 routes timetable to make people aware there are other routes that serve that corridor.

I would much perfered that the GCL had of been upgraded to high Frequency then this new route. So this route will take 45mins under good conditions to get from Garden City to Indooroopilly. I have been stuck on a 444 that took 40mins to get from Culture to Taringa . The fact remains that a GCL upgrade would do for patronage as it serves far more parts of the city and would encourage people to think of PT for cross city travel as well.

I am not impressed with this route and I believe it would of cost less to upgrade the GCL to High Frequency than to put in this completely new service that is duplicating existing services.

Donald

[#Metro]

The conference of the general public unless they show the 444 and the 111

Now there is an idea! You could merge the two if you really wanted to.

This anti-connections, anti-transfer mantra is wasting money and is anti-integration and anti-public transport.
$4.8 million better spent on BUZ 450, BUZ 100, BUZ 599/598 or BUZ 375

How is route 77 going??? Might be time for a review of it.
IMHO 169 and 209 weekend services should also be looked at too. Why can't people transfer at Mater Hill to 109 on the weekend???

Money from those would be better spent on new BUZ routes IMHO.

[somebody]

169 is OK.  I would agree that the 209 has a lower advantage.

[ozbob]

Media release 25 November 2010

SEQ: Route 88 has few positives and many negatives ...

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport commuters has said the announcement of a new bus service, the Route 88 has largely gone unheralded (1,2). Route 88 is a high frequency, pre-paid service between Indooroopilly and Eight Mile Plains via the Captain Cook Bridge and South East Busway.

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"The route for the 88 bus route is duplicating many existing public transport services. It will also add to bus and road congestion on the western part from the City to Indooroopilly. Indooroopilly railway station will soon have a 15 minute around the clock out of peak train frequency, including weekends and a much better peak frequency for trains and express services during peaks.  Is the Route 88 western leg really needed?"

"Currently, the weekend 444 runs to Moggill are crowded by people who wish to travel from the city to locations between Milton and Indooroopilly.  This is because it is the only route to Indooroopilly with an even and reasonable frequency, and no other routes share its city stop location.  The former poor outbound routing for the western routes via Grey St from Queen St Bus Station also served as a disincentive.  While a number of routes leave out of Queen St Bus Station for Indooroopilly, this stop is unattractive due to the inconsistent weekend frequency (3,4).  These routes are considerably less congested than the 444.  RAIL Back On Track calls for the consolidation of the routes in a single location, most likely Queen St Bus Station.  The frequency from Queen St Bus Station isn't as bad on weekday daytimes."

"Heading inbound, the 444 is preferred if heading to the city over the other "express" routes, due to the "express" routes needing to deviate into the Cultural Centre, and also it needs to use the bus turnaround facility, which is slow.  A recent poll of RAIL Back On Track members had a strong majority in favour of a revised inbound routing via Skew St and Roma St Bus Station (5).  This makes the most sense if the old Boomerang St inbound stop is reinstated and a new indented stop created on the slip lane from the Go Between Bridge for outbound services.  RAIL Back On Track is unsure why both of these things didn't occur on the opening of the bridge.  The other alternative to running inbound via Roma St is to run via the Go Between Bridge and no longer serve the Cribb St stop."

"The other problem is that even if routes run to time, they are still bunched up from Indooroopilly when heading inbound.  This means that there are gaps in the service followed by 3 buses to the city arriving within a few minutes (6)."

"The SE busway component of the service is largely good, however the southbound reliability is likely to be poor if the route has just come from Coronation Drive.  For best use of available funds, this should replace the 160 service."

"The failure to move forward with a truly integrated public transport network is no better highlighted than with the 88 bus route. Extending the Great Circle Bus route to a 7 day operation with increased frequency or a BUZ 100 would be a better investment of funds in our opinion."

References:

1.   http://www.translink.com.au/travel-information/service-updates/bulletin/1289964278

2.   http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=4772.0

3.   http://jp.translink.com.au/travel-information/stops-and-stations/stop-timetable?stopName=Qsbs%20Stop%20B1

4.   http://jp.translink.com.au/travel-information/stops-and-stations/stop-timetable?stopName=Qsbs%20Stop%20B4

5.   http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=4501.0

6.   http://jp.translink.com.au/travel-information/stops-and-stations/stop-timetable?stopName=Indooroopilly%20B

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org

[ozbob]

Is there any real point to the 88?   Am I missing something?   It is just adding to congestion on the west, and at time when a stepped up rail frequency will be available around the clock from Indroo anyway .. 

Waste of valuable resources ?

I can't see the point with this service... There are many more areas screaming out for a better and frequent service, and all TL can do is add more congestion to services that already are quite frequent..

Yes,  crazy Otto ..

[STB]

It is a bit of a weird route IMO.  Would've thought that there were much higher needs elsewhere than this.  Perhaps the data they've gained over time has told them that there is quite a few workers in the Milton/Auchenflower area who originate on the SE side of the city?

[somebody]

I know I've said this before, but the fact is that the express routes ex-QSBS carry few commuters on the as far as Indooroopilly corridor.  The bulk of these people go to the 444, at least on weekends.  Almost everyone in QSBS B cannot use the 444.  Hence the perceived need for this route.

It is a bit of a weird route IMO.  Would've thought that there were much higher needs elsewhere than this.  Perhaps the data they've gained over time has told them that there is quite a few workers in the Milton/Auchenflower area who originate on the SE side of the city?

Heading towards Milton/Auchenflower, the train is far more convenient as you do not need to cross Coro.  Although that problem afflicts route 88 too.

[STB]

I betcha if you asked TransLink what is the justification for route 88, I reckon the response would be along the lines of 'No comment' and 'That's confidential'. 

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

26 November 2010

Greetings,

We welcome the news the LNP may have a shadow Minister for Public Transport portfolio.

We continue to receive a lot of feedback questioning the basis of the route 88 bus.

The community would be much better served by an expansion of the Great Circle Bus routes (598/599) in terms of frequency and expanded to a 7 day a week operation. In case TransLink has not noticed, shops and hospitals function 7 days a week.  Many citizens are dependent on public transport to get around, 7 days a week.  Rather than just layering more questionable services on already congested radial routes, think laterally!

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org

Media release 25 November 2010

SEQ: Route 88 has few positives and many negatives ...

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport commuters has said the announcement of a new bus service, the Route 88 has largely gone unheralded (1,2). Route 88 is a high frequency, pre-paid service between Indooroopilly and Eight Mile Plains via the Captain Cook Bridge and South East Busway.

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"The route for the 88 bus route is duplicating many existing public transport services. It will also add to bus and road congestion on the western part from the City to Indooroopilly. Indooroopilly railway station will soon have a 15 minute around the clock out of peak train frequency, including weekends and a much better peak frequency for trains and express services during peaks.  Is the Route 88 western leg really needed?"

"Currently, the weekend 444 runs to Moggill are crowded by people who wish to travel from the city to locations between Milton and Indooroopilly.  This is because it is the only route to Indooroopilly with an even and reasonable frequency, and no other routes share its city stop location.  The former poor outbound routing for the western routes via Grey St from Queen St Bus Station also served as a disincentive.  While a number of routes leave out of Queen St Bus Station for Indooroopilly, this stop is unattractive due to the inconsistent weekend frequency (3,4).  These routes are considerably less congested than the 444.  RAIL Back On Track calls for the consolidation of the routes in a single location, most likely Queen St Bus Station.  The frequency from Queen St Bus Station isn't as bad on weekday daytimes."

"Heading inbound, the 444 is preferred if heading to the city over the other "express" routes, due to the "express" routes needing to deviate into the Cultural Centre, and also it needs to use the bus turnaround facility, which is slow.  A recent poll of RAIL Back On Track members had a strong majority in favour of a revised inbound routing via Skew St and Roma St Bus Station (5).  This makes the most sense if the old Boomerang St inbound stop is reinstated and a new indented stop created on the slip lane from the Go Between Bridge for outbound services.  RAIL Back On Track is unsure why both of these things didn't occur on the opening of the bridge.  The other alternative to running inbound via Roma St is to run via the Go Between Bridge and no longer serve the Cribb St stop."

"The other problem is that even if routes run to time, they are still bunched up from Indooroopilly when heading inbound.  This means that there are gaps in the service followed by 3 buses to the city arriving within a few minutes (6)."

"The SE busway component of the service is largely good, however the southbound reliability is likely to be poor if the route has just come from Coronation Drive.  For best use of available funds, this should replace the 160 service."

"The failure to move forward with a truly integrated public transport network is no better highlighted than with the 88 bus route. Extending the Great Circle Bus route to a 7 day operation with increased frequency or a BUZ 100 would be a better investment of funds in our opinion."

References:

1.   http://www.translink.com.au/travel-information/service-updates/bulletin/1289964278

2.   http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=4772.0

3.   http://jp.translink.com.au/travel-information/stops-and-stations/stop-timetable?stopName=Qsbs%20Stop%20B1

4.   http://jp.translink.com.au/travel-information/stops-and-stations/stop-timetable?stopName=Qsbs%20Stop%20B4

5.   http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=4501.0

6.   http://jp.translink.com.au/travel-information/stops-and-stations/stop-timetable?stopName=Indooroopilly%20B

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org

[ozbob]

http://translink.com.au/resources/travel-information/services-and-timetables/timetables/071001_598,599.pdf

Great Circle Line  598/599

[somebody]

We welcome the news the LNP may have a shadow Minister for Public Transport portfolio.

What do you mean by this?  Fiona Simpson has been filling that role for ages.

[Fares_Fair]

Hello somebody,

True, she has.

Fiona Simpson MP, Member for Maroochydore is the Shadow Minister for Main Roads and Transport.
This reshuffle will prioritise public transport as a stand alone specific portfolio, separate to Main Roads.
I see it as a good thing for PT users.

I would like to see the portfolio retained by a Sunshine coast MP due to the current government's lack of support to the region (e.g.. the Rail duplication being postponed - again - out to 2031, and possibly unfunded anyway). That's my understanding of it.

Regards,
Fares_Fair

[ozbob]

We welcome the news the LNP may have a shadow Minister for Public Transport portfolio.

What do you mean by this?  Fiona Simpson has been filling that role for ages.

See --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=4928.0

[somebody]

Checking the stop timetable for "Kgsbs Platform 1A", shows that in the PM peak, the 88 will come 1 minute after the 444 & 4 minutes before the 443.  I personally think this is too tight.

[STB]

Here's the HTML inbound timetable - http://jp.translink.com.au/travel-information/services-and-timetables/buses/view-bus-timetable/2693?timetableDate=2010-12-13&direction=Inbound&routeCode=88

And the HTML outbound timetable - http://jp.translink.com.au/travel-information/services-and-timetables/buses/view-bus-timetable/2693?timetableDate=2010-12-13&direction=Outbound&routeCode=88

[somebody]

Indooroopilly stop is weird.  Not the bus station, but the stop in the middle of Musgrave Rd.  If I am reading it correctly.

[longboi]

Has it occured to anybody that routes such as the 77 and 88 may not have been created in response to current travel patterns? Rather, it seems TransLink are trying to place themselves ahead of the curve by introducing cross-town routes now to influence new travel patterns and cater to them well before there is large demand.

[Otto]

Has it occured to anybody that routes such as the 77 and 88 may not have been created in response to current travel patterns? 

Yes, it has..
And yes, I do agree with TL introducing the 77 service as my own dealings with the travelling public indicated to me that there was a demand for such a service.. I can't say the same about the 88 route. I am also a regular driver of the GCL route and outside of peak , you would be lucky to average 1 pax per trip travelling from G.C. to Indro or vice versa. The 88 would most likely become popular with pax travelling along the SE busway to KGSBS as it avoids the CC bus jam during busy periods.

[somebody]

Has it occured to anybody that routes such as the 77 and 88 may not have been created in response to current travel patterns? Rather, it seems TransLink are trying to place themselves ahead of the curve by introducing cross-town routes now to influence new travel patterns and cater to them well before there is large demand.

That's not what is normally meant by cross town routes.  It usually means something like Strathpine-Bracken Ridge-Sandgate.

And as has been said many times on this board, you can't catch a bus/train that isn't there.  Could it be that current PT travel is on these routes because that's where the PT is provided.

[#Metro]

And yes, I do agree with TL introducing the 77 service as my own dealings with the travelling public indicated to me that there was a demand for such a service.. I can't say the same about the 88 route. I am also a regular driver of the GCL route and outside of peak , you would be lucky to average 1 pax per trip travelling from G.C. to Indro or vice versa. The 88 would most likely become popular with pax travelling along the SE busway to KGSBS as it avoids the CC bus jam during busy periods.

Hi Otto, perhaps you can shed some light on the GCL route?
Are there any places that could do with being more direct, wider stops, bus priority or other improvements?

[longboi]

Has it occured to anybody that routes such as the 77 and 88 may not have been created in response to current travel patterns? Rather, it seems TransLink are trying to place themselves ahead of the curve by introducing cross-town routes now to influence new travel patterns and cater to them well before there is large demand.

That's not what is normally meant by cross town routes.  It usually means something like Strathpine-Bracken Ridge-Sandgate.

Actually, a cross-town route doesn't have to necessarily avoid the CBD to be a cross town route. 199 is one example.

[beauyboy]

The thing is if this Route was truely about providing quick Cross Town Travel the service would not stop in the CBD it would stay on the Riverside Expressway which in turn would save about 5 Mins from the journey time.

As someone that at the start of the year had to use the 111 counter to the peak direction there was little call for the service to be added to. If you toke into account the people that may have been coming from the West I truely think This route is not needed.

Donald

[#Metro]

Actually, a cross-town route doesn't have to necessarily avoid the CBD to be a cross town route. 199 is one example.

In my mind there is a distinction:

Cross-town: from a non-CBD point to another non-CBD point, not going through the CBD
Through-route: From a non-CBD point to another non-CBD point via the CBD
Radial: From a point to the CBD
Orbital: In a circle or arc, avoiding the CBD

The categories can mix. For example, if a BUZ 375 were to be put on and extended to Michelton Rail station, it would have both radial and cross-town functions.

[Golliwog]

Actually, a cross-town route doesn't have to necessarily avoid the CBD to be a cross town route. 199 is one example.

In my mind there is a distinction:

Cross-town: from a non-CBD point to another non-CBD point, not going through the CBD
Through-route: From a non-CBD point to another non-CBD point via the CBD
Radial: From a point to the CBD
Orbital: In a circle or arc, avoiding the CBD

The categories can mix. For example, if a BUZ 375 were to be put on and extended to Michelton Rail station, it would have both radial and cross-town functions.

What? From your definitions the 375 can't be a cross town route as it goes via the CBD. And it can't be radial either as it doesn't terminate in the CBD.

[#Metro]

Um, at the moment 375 is a through route.

It has a radial function (I can travel from Bardon through the CBD or from Stafford to the CBD) and if it were extended to Michelton, it would also have a cross-town function (I could travel from Stafford to Michelton without passing through the CBD).

This is how I think about it. But if people have their own ideas, please post them.