88 Bus Route was Rumour: 88 8 mile plains to Indro

[somebody]

Over at ATDB, it has been rumoured that there is to a route 88, running from 8 mile plains all to Buranda, Captain Cook Bridge, then 444 route to Indooroopilly.

So, instead of sorting the problem with the city stop locations and lack of co-ordination, they see fit to start this route to ease loads on the 444, in spite of the imminent frequency increase on rail.  The south side of the route isn't as bad - at least they are bringing in a full time Captain Cook bridge routing to the SE busway stations.

Death to their feeble plans!  I am decidedly underwhelmed.

[#Metro]

I'm a bit worried about this "direct route to everywhere" because it cannot really be combined with journeys to other destinations
like stopping in the city would. And a point to point network also requires more buses.

However, I can see their logic- a lot of traffic goes from the SE Freeway, via the Riverside Expressway to Coronation Drive and Indooroopilly. Though I doubt that if such a route eventuates, that it will run all the way to Moggill. They will probably cut it short at Indooroopilly is my guess.

My guess is that the route will be viable during peak hour, but dead in the off peak.

[Golliwog]

There are possibilities with this though, perhaps they want to change the 111 so it no longer terminates in the city, but instead of extending the route and changing the current BUZ numbering (111, 222, 333, 444) they're going with the current branding with the 66, 77. Through routing has benefits in that your layovers aren't in the congested CBD and so you hopefully end up with less buses sitting, waiting in the city for their next run to start.

[AnonymouslyBad]

Will be interesting to see if anything comes of this...

It's not a bad idea (as it's a route linking a lot of major centres), but what will the frequency be like? If it's going to run to the same schedule as the 77, there's probably not much point because you might have to wait 20 minutes for a bus that'll save you ten.

Like tramtrain said, it sounds like a great carrier of oxygen during the off-peak (refer route 77) but I can see peak hour commuters using it - if the wait justifies it.

[somebody]

It's not a bad idea

Yes, it is.

They will probably cut it short at Indooroopilly is my guess.

I said that in the OP.

Like tramtrain said, it sounds like a great carrier of oxygen during the off-peak (refer route 77) but I can see peak hour commuters using it - if the wait justifies it.

My guess is that the route will be viable during peak hour, but dead in the off peak.

You guys don't use the routes on the Indro-city corridor do you?  Peak hour may well be the time it is least used.  I for one, head straight to the train station if I want to travel along here during peak, but usually use the bus off peak.  I'm sure many others do the same, due to Coro congestion.

As for the SE busway part, that bit I do agree with.

[david]

Saw some signs along Coro Drive indicating the route of this mysterious route 88!

Looks like its happening!

[Golliwog]

What kind of signs? Like the black and yellow BCC route signs telling drivers where to turn?

[#Metro]

Where on Coro?

[Golliwog]

And this just makes me think, why haven't we heard anything from TL about it yet? They just gave over a months notice of changes to the buses out at Ipswich, yet it looks like this route 88 is going to be starting sooner and we haven't heard boo. Perhaps this is like CityGlider? A BCC plan that "has" the support of TransLink?

[#Metro]

Sigh. It is just going to get stuck in Coronation Drive AND Riverside Expressway traffic, along with all the cars.
In the absence of physical bus priority, perhaps they should attach sirens to the bus??? 

[david]

It was the standard yellow BCC route signs indicating a right turn from Coro Drive to High St, Toowong. Was on the 412 when the bus zoomed past the sign so I couldn't take a photo.

[O_128]

I agree that this really seems to be a stupid idea, how hard is it to

a. change buses at king George square or
b. merge the 444 and 111 together

[somebody]

I agree that this really seems to be a stupid idea, how hard is it to

a. change buses at king George square or
b. merge the 444 and 111 together

The part which annoys me is that you cannot easily wait for the next bus to Indro anywhere in the city, and not even the Cultural Centre, as the Expresses & 444/88 come through the Cultural Centre in a different direction.  And they won't fix the problem.

[O_128]

I agree that this really seems to be a stupid idea, how hard is it to

a. change buses at king George square or
b. merge the 444 and 111 together

The part which annoys me is that you cannot easily wait for the next bus to Indro anywhere in the city, and not even the Cultural Centre, as the Expresses & 444/88 come through the Cultural Centre in a different direction.  And they won't fix the problem.

this is my main issue aswell, stick them all together in one spot or at the very least move some of the 4** buses to KGS so there is a more frequent service from there. I personally am in favor for a 400 bus to indro where people can then transfer to there bus there, it would hugely streamline operations, keep the 444 and the 412 however for a 4 min frequency down coro off peak

[Golliwog]

With the 444/412 plan though, would you have them service alternate stops along Coro, or just get rid of the no longer serviced ones? I also like the 400 plan and then change at Indro. Its really not that different to running a feeder bus to take you to the nearest train station.

[O_128]

KISS- have them serve all the same stops on coro. the key is to keep it super simple, having bendy 400 buses every 5 min in peak is much more efficient than the current mish mash of routes

[#Metro]

With the 444/412 plan though, would you have them service alternate stops along Coro, or just get rid of the no longer serviced ones? I also like the 400 plan and then change at Indro. Its really not that different to running a feeder bus to take you to the nearest train station.

I agree. The current services are illegible really. The lack of bus priority is a farce. IMHO the only buses that should be running down Coronation Drive are the BUZ 444, BUZ 412 and a BUZ 450. Everything else could be re-organized to feed trunk feeder bus lines (these 3 BUZ routes could get permanent arctic operation or superbus operation) or feed rail. A single rocket line using arctic buses starting at Indooroopilly and going straight to the city with no stops whatsoever during peak hour could also be looked at.

This would allow the feeder buses to be turned around at Indooroopilly and do another sweep of the suburbs, boosting the frequency.
The lack of a bus-rail interchange at Indooroopilly rail is such a lost opportunity.

With the 444/412 plan though, would you have them service alternate stops along Coro, or just get rid of the no longer serviced ones? I also like the 400 plan and then change at Indro. Its really not that different to running a feeder bus to take you to the nearest train station.

Depends on the frequency. If it is too frequent, stops might clog, therefore skip-stop operation could be used. (we love the skip-stop don't we 

[somebody]

ozbob, would I be correct in presuming that you wouldn't be in favour of a release criticising this plan?

[ozbob]

Haven't had chance to look at this yet.  But little point in putting something out on a rumour at this stage.  I am sure posts here have been noted.

Cheers
Bob

[somebody]

Also at ATDB it was unanimous that it wasn't a good idea.  Here there is a dissenting view.  It will soon be made official though, I expect before Xmas.

[#Metro]

On what grounds?

[somebody]

On what grounds?

Not sure what you are asking.  If "On what grounds will it be starting soon", then the route signs are up and supposedly driver training has started.

[#Metro]

I meant why does everyone over at ADTB think it is a bad idea? Don't the like the route? Do they think it is unnecessary etc etc.

[somebody]

I think mostly because it competes with the train system.

[#Metro]

Really?

But if its pax are all from the busway stations ... 

[somebody]

The southern part is OK.  It's the western part.

[AnonymouslyBad]

Competing with the train system isn't a good thing, but then the question must be asked, how is it competing when people have to wait 15 minutes for a train of a morning? For a peak hour commuter it's not good enough. Transferring from the busway to a Coro Drive bus is slightly better but changing in the city still takes far too long (this could be improved). The Milton-Toowong area is car infested for a reason.

[somebody]

Competing with the train system isn't a good thing, but then the question must be asked, how is it competing when people have to wait 15 minutes for a train of a morning? For a peak hour commuter it's not good enough. Transferring from the busway to a Coro Drive bus is slightly better but changing in the city still takes far too long (this could be improved). The Milton-Toowong area is car infested for a reason.

Which stop can you wait it which has a better frequency than that consistently?  Unless you count both platforms of the Cultural Centre as a single stop.

[O_128]

As I do a lot of travel between Manly and Toowong I kinda like the route.

Firstly I can get a train to buranda and change. Now I know this will sound really stupid but it will be the easiest transfer for me, Mainly because If I want to transfer at the cultural centre or roma street the 444 has left 1 min before and i cant be bothered waiting 15min so ill get off at central and walk to the 411 etc stop then go the 412 and then QSBM.

[AnonymouslyBad]

Competing with the train system isn't a good thing, but then the question must be asked, how is it competing when people have to wait 15 minutes for a train of a morning? For a peak hour commuter it's not good enough. Transferring from the busway to a Coro Drive bus is slightly better but changing in the city still takes far too long (this could be improved). The Milton-Toowong area is car infested for a reason.

Which stop can you wait it which has a better frequency than that consistently?  Unless you count both platforms of the Cultural Centre as a single stop.

With the current stop arrangements, probably not any. Hence why changing buses to get from (say) Upper Mt Gravatt to Milton isn't currently an attractive option either. It's too much time waiting compared to the time actually getting there.

I agree it'd be cheaper and smarter to just fix the city stops so you don't have those 10 or 15 minute waits. Route 88 is inefficient at best, but what can you do. It's fulfilling a need, even if the need shouldn't be there in the first place.

Of course, that's all just in theory because I doubt the route 88 will come frequently enough anyway. It will be interesting to see what happens with it.

[Golliwog]

Can anyone remember that article that was on the front page of mX ages ago? It was saying something about Translink or QT offering BT something like 20 buses to run a few high frequency (as in CityGlider frequency I think) from Indro to the City and from the City to somewhere south, maybe on the busway? They were calling them something like the red line and the green line or something? Is this route 88 perhaps some mutation of that idea?

[somebody]

Can anyone remember that article that was on the front page of mX ages ago? It was saying something about Translink or QT offering BT something like 20 buses to run a few high frequency (as in CityGlider frequency I think) from Indro to the City and from the City to somewhere south, maybe on the busway? They were calling them something like the red line and the green line or something? Is this route 88 perhaps some mutation of that idea?

I don't remember that, but it sounds like someone playing politics.

As I do a lot of travel between Manly and Toowong I kinda like the route.

I presume that the problem with the interchange in the current system is only in the towards Toowong direction.  Heading towards Manly, from a train you have a relatively easy interchange at Roma St.  Assuming you would wait on High St rather than Benson St, if you get a 433/445 you would get off on North Quay near Herschel St (stop 106) for Roma St, if you get a 444, Roma St, and if a 425/430/435/450/453/454/460, you would get off at the Cultural Centre for a train from South Brisbane.

Heading towards Toowong, the real problem is the 444 going a different way through the CBD than the expresses.  Why can't we fix this problem, rather than having this waste of resources which is the 88?

[somebody]

One other point I would make is that if my suggested inbound routing via Roma St, and outbound via Cultural Centre is implemented, heading towards Manly you would never have to put up with the Cultural Centre/Sth Brisbane interchange.

[beauyboy]

I have also seen a Route 88 BCC bus drivers sign. I saw it where the buses turn off corro at the William Jolly.
I saw the sign and just thought it was a left over from years ago but i must have been wrong.

Donald

[somebody]

The funny part is that there isn't such a sign for the 444!

[#Metro]

I saw these signs today. We really should be consolidating the numbers of routes to just a few core ones with higher capacity like arctics.
Sigh. 

[somebody]

I saw these signs today. We really should be consolidating the numbers of routes to just a few core ones with higher capacity like arctics.
Sigh. 

I don't see why.  We still need the 433's Gem Rd-Kenmore service, the 430's Lone Pine service etc.

If you are talking about interchange, then there is no reduction in route numbers.

[#Metro]

Once frequency dips below, say 2 minutes or so (e.g. coronation drive), it doesn't really make sense to add more and more buses.
It makes more sense to simply expand existing capacity, by getting bigger buses.

Is there a reason why Brisbane only has 2 "superbuses" (110 pax or so) which are less super than the super-super buses. I would have thought they would be finished with the pilot by now.

[somebody]

Don't like the "superbuses".  Aren't they just artics with less seating, and also an additional door?

[#Metro]

Perfectly legitimate transport option, financially responsible too.