Richlands to Springfield Central - Stage 2

[Jonno]

Two words....Nine percent!!

[James]

The fact that it is this bad doesn't surprise me. The 522 has numerous issues:

1. Bypasses Springfield Station. Of course, this is what happens when you have nice curvy roads with traffic calming in every street, which result in the development turning into a PT nightmare - it is difficult to serve/feed this station effectively.
2. The 535 being a superior route. The thing practically took the route you'd take with a car and then dumped pax at Richlands for a quick trip to the city. Ignoring the fact it was peak-only, the 535 was a very good bus route.
3. The 'kink' at the bottom of the route. I'm sure if you got rid of that it would be far more competitive to simply feed pax to Springfield Central. That kink is a classic example of diversions totally ruining any useful function a bus route has.

I will make a trip out there sometime and have a look at both the new stations and the 522.

[techblitz]

Well,well,well
Lets see if translink will address these concerns from springfield commuters...
The ball is in thier pen on this one....

[ozbob]

I have asked TransLink for a meeting to discuss this matter.  No harm in trying ..

[techblitz]

I have asked TransLink for a meeting to discuss this matter.  No harm in trying ..

Good luck with it 
The amount of complaints should give some weight to the argument.

·         It's a 15 minute  1km walk to the bus stop on Summit Drive (the area has grown and new houses built and they have not considered making a stop closer to include more people within walking distance

This is a very valid argument which springfield councellors need to look at....closer access to bus stops encourages patronage....

[SurfRail]

I'm struggling with why Springfield couldn't just be served with a bidirectional loop like the North Lakes 688/689 services.  The only functional difference would be that where in peak hour North Lakes has the 687 which runs around the loop and express to Petrie, the 2 Springfield routes would just operate more frequently in peak as the station is already there.  Every 30 minutes in both directions off-peak with every 15 minutes or better in peaks to feed the trains.  Should be a bus for every off-peak or after hours train 7 days a week.

The 522, 526 and 534 I would all run exactly the same way - first to the station, then around Sinnathamby Blvd to USQ, then to Orion, then back again.  Maybe one or 2 of those services would just go from Orion to Springfield Central and then out of the area.

The 522 alignment is woeful and does need work.  I might have a go at remodelling when I have some time.

[minbrisbane]

I'm struggling with why Springfield couldn't just be served with a bidirectional loop like the North Lakes 688/689 services.  The only functional difference would be that where in peak hour North Lakes has the 687 which runs around the loop and express to Petrie, the 2 Springfield routes would just operate more frequently in peak as the station is already there.  Every 30 minutes in both directions off-peak with every 15 minutes or better in peaks to feed the trains.  Should be a bus for every off-peak or after hours train...

I was just thinking the same thing my self.  This is what it needs - and it's pretty sad that it didn't get it.  For me, it is encouraging to see complaints about feeders... it means people actually are or at least attempting to use them.

[techblitz]

Information sessions and maps available 3 months prior
•Information sessions were held during September at various shopping centres across Ipswich and Springfield. TransLink staff were available to explain the changes in person with maps, span of hours and service frequency information. Interactive Google maps are also online showing route alignments, span of hours and service frequency.

We received a total of 48 pieces of feedback on the proposed Ipswich and Springfield route changes, which equates to approximately 0.3% of the total feedback received across South East Queensland.

Not all bus routes received feedback. Of the feedback we did receive, most comments related to routes 500, 522 and 535.

if one can only see the irony...translink gave plenty of time for consultation/feedback and yet we are now left with this situation...
TL seem to have their what I term the "clockface 30 mode" in effect for the 522 (ala route 550,680)

[SurfRail]

^ Engagement of this sort really needs to be invited more thoroughly, with proper forums and events and not just an internet comments form.

[ozbob]

I have asked TransLink for a meeting to discuss this matter.  No harm in trying ..

TransLink staff have acknowledged our correspondence.  There is an operational plan in process to improve this situation.  Thank you!

[BrizCommuter]

Went on a trip out to Springfield today. Surprising number of passengers just travelling between Springfield and Springfield Central. Odd track routing between Roma Street and Darra, shows the stupidity of not electrifying the 4th track between Corinda and Darra.

[ozbob]

Went on a trip out to Springfield today. Surprising number of passengers just travelling between Springfield and Springfield Central. Odd track routing between Roma Street and Darra, shows the stupidity of not electrifying the 4th track between Corinda and Darra.

Indeed Briz, indeed ...

[BrizCommuter]

http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2013/12/overheard-on-springfield-line.html
Overheard on the Springfield Line - more on the station names.

[STB]

http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2013/12/overheard-on-springfield-line.html
Overheard on the Springfield Line - more on the station names.

I think that's a non issue and you are just picking it apart, because you take pleasure in picking things apart as has appeared to be obvious over time.

Springfield Central denotes the Central Business District (CBD) of Springfield itself, while 'Springfield' is located in the residential part of Springfield and Springfield Lakes.

No different to 'Wynnum North' (which is north of Wynnum and part of the suburb called Wynnum North), 'Wynnum' which is located in the residential part of Wynnum, and 'Wynnum Central', which is still located in the suburb of Wynnum but in the CBD of Wynnum where all the shops and other businesses are located.

I have zero problem with the naming of the Springfield stations as 'Springfield' and 'Springfield Central', just as I wouldn't have a problem if down the track, they rename 'Ipswich' as 'Ipswich Central' if the line gets extended and another station gets put in south of the existing Ipswich station as proposed on the long term plans for the extension of the Springfield line when Ripley gets built up.

[BrizCommuter]

http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2013/12/overheard-on-springfield-line.html
Overheard on the Springfield Line - more on the station names.

I think that's a non issue and you are just picking it apart, because you take pleasure in picking things apart as has appeared to be obvious over time.

Springfield Central denotes the Central Business District (CBD) of Springfield itself, while 'Springfield' is located in the residential part of Springfield and Springfield Lakes.

No different to 'Wynnum North' (which is north of Wynnum and part of the suburb called Wynnum North), 'Wynnum' which is located in the residential part of Wynnum, and 'Wynnum Central', which is still located in the suburb of Wynnum but in the CBD of Wynnum where all the shops and other businesses are located.

I have zero problem with the naming of the Springfield stations as 'Springfield' and 'Springfield Central', just as I wouldn't have a problem if down the track, they rename 'Ipswich' as 'Ipswich Central' if the line gets extended and another station gets put in south of the existing Ipswich station as proposed on the long term plans for the extension of the Springfield line when Ripley gets built up.

The fact that BrizCommuter overheard 4 conversations about this issue (although one was a 5 year old) shows that it is causing confusion with the travelling public. Otherwise there would have been no need for the blog post!

[STB]

http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2013/12/overheard-on-springfield-line.html
Overheard on the Springfield Line - more on the station names.

I think that's a non issue and you are just picking it apart, because you take pleasure in picking things apart as has appeared to be obvious over time.

Springfield Central denotes the Central Business District (CBD) of Springfield itself, while 'Springfield' is located in the residential part of Springfield and Springfield Lakes.

No different to 'Wynnum North' (which is north of Wynnum and part of the suburb called Wynnum North), 'Wynnum' which is located in the residential part of Wynnum, and 'Wynnum Central', which is still located in the suburb of Wynnum but in the CBD of Wynnum where all the shops and other businesses are located.

I have zero problem with the naming of the Springfield stations as 'Springfield' and 'Springfield Central', just as I wouldn't have a problem if down the track, they rename 'Ipswich' as 'Ipswich Central' if the line gets extended and another station gets put in south of the existing Ipswich station as proposed on the long term plans for the extension of the Springfield line when Ripley gets built up.

The fact that BrizCommuter overheard 4 conversations about this issue (although one was a 5 year old) shows that it is causing confusion with the travelling public. Otherwise there would have been no need for the blog post!

4 conversations out of how many people using the Springfield line at any one day?  Again, this is a non issue, and I suppose for some it comes down to personal preference, but in reality, it's normal procedure to name stations like that.

[ozbob]

A bit of history.  Springfield was originally known as Stepham.  This was changed to Springfield Lakes.   It was a the local Councillor who lobbied for the name change from Springfield Lakes to Springfield.  The reason being is that Springfield Lakes is the other side of the highway (originally the line was going to be on the other side, hence the name Springfield Lakes)  however when it changed to its present location (on the Springfield side) the locals felt that Springfield was then more correct as a name.

That is the basic reasoning behind it.

[STB]

A bit of history.  Springfield was originally known as Stepham.  This was changed to Springfield Lakes.   It was a the local Councillor who lobbied for the name change from Springfield Lakes to Springfield.  The reason being is that Springfield Lakes is the other side of the highway (originally the line was going to be on the other side, hence the name Springfield Lakes)  however when it changed to its present location (on the Springfield side) the locals felt that Springfield was then more correct as a name.

That is the basic reasoning behind it.

Oh gosh, 'Stepham' sounds like an industrial suburb...or an inner city Sydney suburb! 

Springfield to me sounds like, white picket fences, kids running around, people doing nine to five jobs, and everyone smiling.  I shudder at that thought, it's not for me! 

[ozbob]

I was just out at Springfield - the big hardware store.  Saw an EMU in S. Central.  It is all very spread out presently, but as development occurs it will all close up.

[Derwan]

And the weird thing now is that they're announcing "Springfield Central trains" - not "Springfield Trains", because technically they terminate at Springfield Central, not Springfield - so you can't call them "Springfield trains"! 

Bit of a history lesson:

Sandgate used to be the end of the line on the Shorncliffe Line.  (They STILL call the trains Sandgate/Shorncliffe train.)  When Shorncliffe Station was built, they named it Sandgate... and the existing Sandgate Station was renamed to Sandgate Central.  You can just imagine the confusion that caused!  The names were eventually changed to the current names - with Sandgate Central reverting to Sandgate and the "new Sandgate" station being renamed to Shorncliffe.

I realise that's a bit different and likely to cause a lot more confusion than Springfield, but you can see how the names can be confusing.

Have there ever been any concerns about Wynnum, Wynnum North and Wynnum Central?  I guess it's just a matter of getting used to names.

Actually - North Boondall used to be Boondall - until the new Boondall station was built! 

[STB]

Have there ever been any concerns about Wynnum, Wynnum North and Wynnum Central?  I guess it's just a matter of getting used to names.

Actually - North Boondall used to be Boondall - until the new Boondall station was built! 

Down my way, not as far as I'm aware.  People are quite used to Wynnum Central being Wynnum Central and know that's the CBD part of Wynnum, given the shops and offices there.  Keep note though that 'Wynnum Central' has been like that since day dot pretty much, so people are used to calling it 'Wynnum Central'.

Remember there used to also be a Cleveland Central as well!

Also, wasn't 'Sandgate' station located in the suburb of Shorncliffe, or was the suburb of Shorncliffe created later on and the station renamed in line with that?

[James]

I have to agree with BrizCommuter here - Springfield Central is a mouthful, and while I haven't been on a Springfield train since the line opened (strange really, just been too busy since the line opened/using the bus too much), I disagree with having both 'Springfield' and 'Springfield Central'.

Can we just think of another suburb name, or are we going to have Springfield Central, Springfield Lakes, Springfield, Springfield North, Springfield South, Springfield-near-Ozbob's-house, Springfield-Greenbank, Springfield West? Can't we start splitting developments into smaller suburbs? Given the obsession with naming things after people out there, surely there are a few people we know nothing about who we can name suburbs after. Alternatively, we could just use colours and have "bank" or "Plains" after them. Purplebank! Aqua Plains! Yellowbank! There we are.

Stepham isn't a bad name, albeit it is awfully antiquated. It sounds more like a suburb name you'd come across coming into the city - fitting in well amongst names like Fairfield, Albion and Auchenflower.

[BrizCommuter]

Just because Wynnum (Central) also defies railway station naming conventions doesn't mean that there is an excuse to do the same at Springfield.

If anyone can find such station naming in more railway developed countries such the the UK, France, and Japan then let me know. I doubt you will find any.

Example in Paris - multiple stations in same suburb have differentiating names.
Creteil - Prefecture
Creteil - L'Echat
Creteil - Universite

[STB]

I have to agree with BrizCommuter here - Springfield Central is a mouthful, and while I haven't been on a Springfield train since the line opened (strange really, just been too busy since the line opened/using the bus too much), I disagree with having both 'Springfield' and 'Springfield Central'.

Can we just think of another suburb name, or are we going to have Springfield Central, Springfield Lakes, Springfield, Springfield North, Springfield South, Springfield-near-Ozbob's-house, Springfield-Greenbank, Springfield West? Can't we start splitting developments into smaller suburbs? Given the obsession with naming things after people out there, surely there are a few people we know nothing about who we can name suburbs after. Alternatively, we could just use colours and have "bank" or "Plains" after them. Purplebank! Aqua Plains! Yellowbank! There we are.

Stepham isn't a bad name, albeit it is awfully antiquated. It sounds more like a suburb name you'd come across coming into the city - fitting in well amongst names like Fairfield, Albion and Auchenflower.

So, you'd rather see the station naming standards changed?  To me, Springfield Central makes sense as it's in the centre of Springfield, the CBD of that area.  I suppose you could've called 'Springfield' as 'Springfield Lakes', but eh, the whole general area is known as 'Springfield', so 'Springfield' makes sense in that regard.

Personally, I think we are clutching at straws here based on a very small minority that Briz picked up on (seriously it was 5 passengers out of a probable several hundred).  Personally, I'd rather see Boggo Road/Park Road fixed up as one name, well before anything else!

What's next, we rename 'Central' station as 'Brisbane', or heck 'Brisbane Central'!  Actually thinking about it, there is a 'Melbourne Central'... 

[ozbob]

And just another small thing I have noticed,  destos read ' Springfield ' ... lol

[ozbob]

In my mind I still think of the present Springfield station as Springfield Lakes.   I have a had a number of conservations with people to the effect that I rather like the design of Springfield  station.  Every time they thought I meant Springfield Central, I have had to clarify that I am actually talking about Springfield (Lakes) station.

[STB]

And just another small thing I have noticed,  destos read ' Springfield ' ... lol

I just see it as the point is that whole general area is known as 'Springfield'.  It's if I go out and tell someone where I live, I'd say 'Brisbane', even though I live 25kms east of Brisbane, but if I mention 'Brisbane', people know straight away what I'm talking about.  Same with the Gold Coast and Sunshine Coast.  You don't say I live in Varsity Lakes, you say I live on the Gold Coast, in general speak.

[petey3801]

'Springfield' station is located in the suburb of Springfield.
Springfield Lakes is on the eastern side of the highway, Springfield is on the western side.
'Springfield Central' is located in the suburb of 'Springfield Central'. Yes, the area IS called Springfield Central.

[STB]

'Springfield' station is located in the suburb of Springfield.
Springfield Lakes is on the eastern side of the highway, Springfield is on the western side.
'Springfield Central' is located in the suburb of 'Springfield Central'. Yes, the area IS called Springfield Central.

Well that cleared that up quickly. 

[techblitz]

'Springfield' station is located in the suburb of Springfield.
Springfield Lakes is on the eastern side of the highway, Springfield is on the western side.
'Springfield Central' is located in the suburb of 'Springfield Central'. Yes, the area IS called Springfield Central.

Yup...says it on google maps as well

[James]

So, you'd rather see the station naming standards changed?  To me, Springfield Central makes sense as it's in the centre of Springfield, the CBD of that area.  I suppose you could've called 'Springfield' as 'Springfield Lakes', but eh, the whole general area is known as 'Springfield', so 'Springfield' makes sense in that regard.

Personally, I think we are clutching at straws here based on a very small minority that Briz picked up on (seriously it was 5 passengers out of a probable several hundred).  Personally, I'd rather see Boggo Road/Park Road fixed up as one name, well before anything else!

What's next, we rename 'Central' station as 'Brisbane', or heck 'Brisbane Central'!  Actually thinking about it, there is a 'Melbourne Central'... 

I too would like to see that fixed (I have in fact confused people with that one when being picked up from Park Road!) - but Central doesn't need clarification. Central is exactly that - Central. It is implied it is in Brisbane because we are well, um, in Brisbane.

Springfield Central, however, is a mouthful and is difficult to fit on to PIDs. Hence why I support that station becoming 'Springfield' and the current Springfield station being named something else.

The destos saying 'Springfield' could imply to some that it doesn't proceed to Springfield Central, furthering confusion.

[STB]

So, you'd rather see the station naming standards changed?  To me, Springfield Central makes sense as it's in the centre of Springfield, the CBD of that area.  I suppose you could've called 'Springfield' as 'Springfield Lakes', but eh, the whole general area is known as 'Springfield', so 'Springfield' makes sense in that regard.

Personally, I think we are clutching at straws here based on a very small minority that Briz picked up on (seriously it was 5 passengers out of a probable several hundred).  Personally, I'd rather see Boggo Road/Park Road fixed up as one name, well before anything else!

What's next, we rename 'Central' station as 'Brisbane', or heck 'Brisbane Central'!  Actually thinking about it, there is a 'Melbourne Central'... 

I too would like to see that fixed (I have in fact confused people with that one when being picked up from Park Road!) - but Central doesn't need clarification. Central is exactly that - Central. It is implied it is in Brisbane because we are well, um, in Brisbane.

Springfield Central, however, is a mouthful and is difficult to fit on to PIDs. Hence why I support that station becoming 'Springfield' and the current Springfield station being named something else.

The destos saying 'Springfield' could imply to some that it doesn't proceed to Springfield Central, furthering confusion.

You have read what Petey has said in regards to Springfield Central is actually an actual suburb, right? 

To me, sounds like the locals don't know where they live, or haven't taken much notice of which part of Springfield is Springfield.

And well, not really, Central isn't CENTRAL.  Ie: it's not smack bang in the middle of Brisbane, if we want to start getting pedantic about naming stuff.

[James]

You have read what Petey has said in regards to Springfield Central is actually an actual suburb, right? 

To me, sounds like the locals don't know where they live, or haven't taken much notice of which part of Springfield is Springfield.

And well, not really, Central isn't CENTRAL.  Ie: it's not smack bang in the middle of Brisbane, if we want to start getting pedantic about naming stuff.

Yes, I'm aware that Springfield Central is an actual suburb - no reason why we couldn't have Springfield (Central) and Springfield Lakes, for example.

To extend on the technicalities, if we're going to be technical about it, the railway line is in fact on the Brookwater side of the highway, and thus the station should be 'Brookwater' and not 'Springfield Central' if looking solely at suburb names and where the railway line is located.

It could all be solved if we simply reverted to Springfield Lakes and Springfield (Central). Or even better, became imaginative with suburb names and renamed suburbs. Happened when Varsity Lakes was developed (the suburb created by getting rid of the suburbs of Stephens and Andrews), and I'd advise it as a more general thing to simplify navigation, both for car and PT users.

[minbrisbane]

+1

Springfield - Woodcrest(?) Named after the street and school near the station.
Springfield Central - Springfield

[Derwan]

Technically Springfield Central Station is in Brookwater.  Springfield Central is over the other side of the highway. 

But I agree that the station is servicing Springfield Central, not Brookwater.  Now knowing that Springfield Central is actually a suburb, it makes sense.

[petey3801]

Kind of, but kind of not... Brookwater is actually a bit further South West of the location of the station, so personally i'd still call it within Springfield Central.

[BrizCommuter]

Lots of replies on BrizCommuter's blog. Station names are obviously a contentious issue!

[Gazza]

Kind of, but kind of not... Brookwater is actually a bit further South West of the location of the station, so personally i'd still call it within Springfield Central.

LOL nope, the area south West of the station I believe is mooted to be Spring Mountain, but it has yet to be developed.

According to Brisway, Springfield is indeed in the Springfield suburb boundary, and springfield central is actually technically in Brookwater, because the area north of the Centenary Highway at that point is Brookwater 

As for the station naming, I'm fine with it. Springfield station is not only closer to Springfield, but also the actual center of mass of springfield itself. Springfield lakes (The actual lakes and commercial bits) seems to be more southerly.

Springfield lakes is really a triangular shape, and the bit across the link bridge from Springfield Station is the extreme northerly tip....go a small amount north and it's all just bushland.

[petey3801]

Yes, my apologies, I keep forgetting the line does a sharp right hander coming in to Springfield Central.

While the station may lie within the boundries of Brookwater technically, the Brookwater development is still a fair distance from the station itself, whereas the shopping centre and other impending developments (the sports precinct etc.) of Springfield Central are much closer, so I would say Springfield Central is still more correct for the station name than Brookwater, simply due to the layout of the area.

[SteelPan]

TWO points I'd like to make please.

i) I took the trip to Springfield [Central] recently and First Class Effort to all concerned - WELL DONE!

My only suggestion, in due course, would be put the hard word on the local authority and shopping centre owner to improve access from the railway station to the shopping cente itself. 

ii) SO - where to for the "Springfield Line" from here, let's NOT let things just sit still for another 20yrs+

Suggestion, at some point in 2014 maybe BOT has an online SEQld future rail needs webinar - just a suggestion.

Again, WELL DONE to all re the Springfield effort - but let's keep moving forward.