Tram Trains

[#Metro]

Just an interest of mine...

Busways are nice because they can hop off and drive to your door.
A pity that QR trains can't do that... but now there is a solution. Tramtrains!

NEW-style tram trains could be running by the end of 2010 on a line in the Pennines as part of the first phase of a ?24 million trial.

The trains, which are used on many routes in Germany, will be sharing tracks with conventional trains on the 37-mile Penistone line, which runs between Sheffield and Huddersfield, via Barnsley.

http://www.railnews.co.uk/news/metro/2008/08/05-northern-rail-tram-train.html

[ButFli]

I don't get it. What use are these? Why not run normal trains instead?

[stephenk]

I don't really see any use or justification for tram trains in Brisbane. They usually run on inner city LRT tracks (of which Brisbane has none), and  lesser used suburban lines (of which most of Brisbanes are quite heavily used). They run on tracks, so don't have the urban spread that buses do. If they did run on QR tracks, they would waste precious track capacity due to their low passenger capacity.

[#Metro]

Hmm. They could run down the busway if they were converted to LRT.
They could also run on the heavy rail system too- a single vehicle that could run on both streets, busways and rail lines.
I think there are also battery powered systems and diesel-electric hybrids- potential uses for Doomben, Ferny-Grove to Samford, Exhibition Loop, Tennyson and Greenbank lines. Indeed Adelaide is planning a system, there is already a similar system running in Melbourne with St. Kilda services.

Heavy rail trains are not appropriate for all transport applications. A QR train can't stop outside your door like a bus, nor can it drive down suburban streets. There are also no land resumptions involved. And where demand is low, but there is a track, it may be easier to use such a vehicle. I'm sure that QR can find space in many parts of their timetable, especially on lines where trains only run once every half hour.

I note that in the bus forum there was debate about larger buses meaning lower frequency, and that the advantage of the smaller buses is that the frequency would be higher, and therefore more people would catch them. If so, does not the same reasoning apply here? Smaller vehicles- higher frequency- throwaway timetable- more passengers?

These services would not necessarily have to go through central either. Indeed, where busways and rail stations are co-located, the vehicle itself could transfer and drop passengers at busway stations or on city streets where the people are.





http://railforthevalley.wordpress.com/2009/08/05/european-cities-introduce-new-tram-train-technology-from-the-european-urban-knowledge-network/

[ButFli]

It seems like you are trying to find a problem for your solution.

[#Metro]

No, just exploring the possibilities.

Same for the Gold Coast Rapid Transit project. These vehicles could be used to jump onto the Rail lines between Nerang and Coomera/Helensvale, rather than stop, transfer and wait.

[wbj]

A QR train can't stop outside your door like a bus, nor can it drive down suburban streets.

A bus doesn't stop outside my door now, why would a tramtrain be any different?

[stephenk]

Hmm. They could run down the busway if they were converted to LRT.

Not cost effective, and 100% low floor trams would be better.

I think there are also battery powered systems and diesel-electric hybrids- potential uses for Doomben

Better served by a Buz Bus, or more frequent trains.

Ferny-Grove to Samford

Not cost effective. A bus connecting with each train would be more cost effective and require no extra infrastructure.

Exhibition Loop

It would get in the way of proper trains

Tennyson and Greenbank lines.

Tennyson - would require extra infrastructure so as to not in the way of heavy rail services at either end. Not worth the investment for a short line.
Greenbank - to run trains into city you will need improved infrastructure is there is little extra capacity across the Merivale bridge. For the cost of this, it would be more cost effective to run 6-car trains to make the most of track capacity.

there is already a similar system running in Melbourne with St. Kilda services.

That uses 100% low floor trams.

Heavy rail trains are not appropriate for all transport applications. A QR train can't stop outside your door like a bus, nor can it drive down suburban streets.

Nor can a tram train.

And where demand is low, but there is a track, it may be easier to use such a vehicle. I'm sure that QR can find space in many parts of their timetable, especially on lines where trains only run once every half hour.

The logistics of running a frequent tram train has the same timetabling issues as running a 6-car heavy rail train.

I note that in the bus forum there was debate about larger buses meaning lower frequency, and that the advantage of the smaller buses is that the frequency would be higher, and therefore more people would catch them. If so, does not the same reasoning apply here? Smaller vehicles- higher frequency- throwaway timetable- more passengers?

Er, not really. You can run 6-car trains at high frequency. If the area does not justify even a 3-car train service, then bus would be much more cost effective.

These services would not necessarily have to go through central either. Indeed, where busways and rail stations are co-located, the vehicle itself could transfer and drop passengers at busway stations or on city streets where the people are.

See first answer.

It seems that you are trying to find a solution for your obsession.

At least you aren't into rollercoasters  

[#Metro]

Ha ha

Now that would be fun! Who said transport had to be all serious work?

Glad you didn't suggest submarines or hovercraft  for the Brisbane River.

[SteelPan]

I think I  a little while back, Adelaide is going to embrace news trams that can run on BOTH designated tram AND heavy rail tracks.

[#Metro]

Hi SteelPan.

I think you are right. I'm doing more digging for information, and actually I think the QLD Government and BCC were seriously considering it in depth for Brisbane as well- right down to what wheel profiles would be compatible with the QR network. It's just like a busway for trams. It works in other cities...

I'll post more info when it comes to hand.