Cross River Rail Project

[SurfRail]

Bear in mind the only bus stopping along this stretch is the 109, which is an interim service provided only while the station is being rebuilt.

Anything else is ad hoc railbuses only.

[Stillwater]

"The large 480-metre long cable-stay bridge will help service Princess Alexandra Hospital and Brisbane's newest high school - the Brisbane South State Secondary College - as part of the $5.4 billion Cross River Rail project."

... A bridge so long it requires rest stops along its length. AND it fits neatly into the CRR budget, still touted at $5.4b total. It must be a bit of a magic pudding budget, eh.

[Gazza]

It was always in the scope right?
Also why be negative about this bridge at all  :conf

[verbatim9]

https://twitter.com/ozbob13/status/1485264889849737216

====

Brisbanetimes --> All aboard: Bridging the 480-metre gap between Cross River Rail and passengers $

Work will begin in March on a pedestrian and cycle bridge linking new Brisbane train stations, the Boggo Road Ecosciences precinct, south-east busway and Princess Alexandra Hospital.

The large 480-metre long cable-stay bridge will help service Princess Alexandra Hospital and Brisbane's newest high school - the Brisbane South State Secondary College - as part of the $5.4 billion Cross River Rail project.

The Queensland Government believes the new bridge, stations and enhanced bus services will make Boggo Road the second busiest public transport centre in Brisbane when Cross River Rail is finished. ...

Boggo Road pedestrian and cycling bridge fast facts:

Cost of the new bridge is part of the $5.4 billion Cross River Rail project.

It is a cable stay bridge, approximately 480 metres long.

The cable stay spire is approximately 45 metres high.

The main deck level will be about 20 metres above the ground and 6.25 metres wide.

Key features include lifts on the eastern and western sides, dedicated cycling and pedestrian paths, seating and rest stops.

The western entry comes off Peter Doherty Street, with the bridge crossing over the rail line and linking into the existing bikeway near the Princess Alexandra Hospital Busway station.

Source: Cross River Rail Delivery Authority


A new 480-metre long pedestrian and cycling bridge will link Boggo Road Ecosciences precinct with the south-east busway and the Princess Alexandra Hospital as part of the $5.4 billion Cross River Rail project.CREDIT:CROSS RIVER RAIL DELIVERY AUTHORITY

It looks great! it has a similar design to that of the proposed cycling bridge that was going to loop over the Brisbane River and connect South Bank with the Veloway. Re looped approach.

[kram0]

Not even sure there is space for a 4th track at Yeronga or many other stations on that inner city section.

Whenever Bob has asked the question to Bailey, he has always dodged the questions as far as I'm aware. Bob?

[ozbob]

Not even sure there is space for a 4th track at Yeronga or many other stations on that inner city section.

Whenever Bob has asked the question to Bailey, he has always dodged the questions as far as I'm aware. Bob?

Not so much Mr Bailey but CRRDA, mention quad and eyes glaze over ...

[ozbob]

FIRST LOOK: Massive new bike and pedestrian bridge will link Boggo Road health and science precinct, PA Hospital precinct, the new high school and UQ

24th January 2022

Minister for Transport and Main Roads
The Honourable Mark Bailey

Designs have been released for a massive new nearly half a kilometre long pedestrian and cycle bridge that will connect the new underground Cross River Rail Boggo Rd station with the busway, Park Road train station, the Boggo Road health, science and education precinct, the new PA Hospital precinct and the new high school at Dutton Park.

Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk said delivering public infrastructure was an important part of the state's Economic Recovery Plan.

"We're building Cross River Rail – the largest infrastructure project in Queensland's history – not just to create jobs, but to make it easier for locals to travel throughout the southeast," the Premier said.

"Linking our public transport system with the hospital, new high school and the new science and education precinct will make it easier for many locals to get to work and access essential services."

Minister for Transport and Main Roads Mark Bailey said the 480-metre-long bridge would link the new and existing stations with the Princess Alexandra Hospital and the PAH South East Busway platforms to the east.

"This bridge will be a unifier for the local community as it soars over the railway junction and will make active travel safer, quicker and easier for local workers, residents and students," Mr Bailey said.

"It will provide faster and more convenient walking and cycling connections, forms an extension of the local cycle network and improved connectivity to the PA Hospital bus station and the new underground Boggo Road rail station.

"Crossing over both freight and passenger train lines, the bridge will be a feat of engineering and a standout signature element for an area that currently divides the community."

Member for Greenslopes Joe Kelly said said the new bridge, which included lifts on both sides, dedicated cycle and pedestrian paths, seating, shade and rest stops, was accessible and designed to meet safety requirements to pass over the rail corridor.

"The bridge will vastly improve the active transport connectivity for Southside Rd between the UQ campus via the Eleanor Schonell Bridge and the V1 Veloway and Stones Corner," Mr Kelly said.

"It is also yet to be named, which provides us with an opportunity for the public to contribute ideas.

"We're calling on the local community to give us their suggestions – the bridge could be named after somebody local, who has a track record of service and creating community connections, even someone linked to health, science and education or take a name that honours local First Nations culture.

"If you have a great suggestion, jump on the Cross River Rail website to complete the form."

Mr Bailey said the new bridge was another example of how Cross River Rail would transform travel across South East Queensland.

"Cross River Rail is a truly transformational project – injecting $4 million a day into the economy by supporting jobs and industries across the state," he said.

"2021 was full of massive milestones for the project as we completed the year of tunnelling, and we're continuing that momentum into 2022.

"This bridge is part of Cross River Rail works at Boggo Road, along with one of the project's four new underground stations.

"The bridge and the new station it connects to will see Boggo Road become South East Queensland's second busiest transport interchange, with over 22,000 commuters using the new station each weekday by 2036.

"It will also stimulate the growth of what is already a world class health, science and education precinct, where thousands of people already work and where thousands of jobs will be created in the future."

Mr Bailey said construction on the new bridge would commence from March and was expected to take around 18 months depending on weather conditions.

To find out more information about the new bridge, including how to make a name suggestion, visit Cross River Rail's website here.

Boggo Road bridge fast facts:

A new cycling and pedestrian bridge will be delivered at Boggo Road as part of Cross River Rail.

It will be an architecturally designed cable stay bridge, approximately 480 metres long, with the cable stay spire approximately 45 metres high.

The main deck level will be about 20 metres above the ground, and it will be up to 6.25 metres wide.

It will consist of more than 1600 tonnes of steel, 1.2 kilometres of hand rail, more than 16 kilometres of welds, 43 metre tall pylons, 683 metres of cable stay, and five individual steel girders weighing up to 133 tonnes each.

Key features include lifts on the eastern and western sides, dedicated cycling and pedestrian paths, seating and rest stops, shade and planting at both ends and rail corridor security mesh.

The western entry will be via a grade-separated path off Peter Doherty Street, with the bridge crossing over the rail line and linking into the existing bikeway near the Princess Alexandra Hospital Busway station.

ENDS

[ozbob]

^

Boggo Road Bridge

>> https://crossriverrail.qld.gov.au/construction/boggo-road-construction/boggo-road-bridge/

[ozbob]

[kram0]

If the new CRR stations can come out half as good as the new Elizabeth Line stations in London, that would be a good outcome!!

https://youtu.be/Ic0ZqwSoQss

[Jonno]

I also didnt get the comment in the meeting that the platforms at Park Rd are too narrow.
They are big single sided things with vacant land inside the curve where you could build lifts and stairs.
And yeah they could do a bridge during the track possession for the tie in.

Maybe Boggo Road Station and all Platform needs a full make over and become completely covered like below or Spence Street Station in Melbourne. 

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/eastTMoore/status/1487987650380238850

[Ari 🚋]

https://twitter.com/eastTMoore/status/1487987650380238850

Why stop there? BCC owns the land, this is the perfect chance for a public TOD!

[timh]

https://twitter.com/eastTMoore/status/1487987650380238850

Why stop there? BCC owns the land, this is the perfect chance for a public TOD!

State owns the land, not council


However, I do have some things to say about Schrinner's statement. I feel two ways about it.

1) I think it's a great idea! The inner city suburbs are getting increasingly expensive and filled with so much luxury apartment stock, it would be fantastic to have some more affordable housing in the area. 600 is a great target number, and I'm impressed to hear it coming from an LNP mayor.

2) More bizarre considering its coming from an LNP mayor is how hypocritical it is of their party's general approach to infill development in BCC. In the Brisbane Times article, Schrinner talks about how he'd like parking kept to a minimum, which is VERY rich coming from him considering his party recently INCREASED parking minimums for apartment developments. Also if he wants more affordable housing and less luxury stock, maybe he should take a look at all the ridiculous mega-mansion apartments being approved in suburbs like West End, Toowong and Kangaroo Point....

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[Jonno]

After 204 pages this may have been discussed previously but looking at the above drawing and wonder if the Gabba Busway Station is best moved "in-line" near Stanley Street (just a little east of the current busway and linked to CRR by underground walkway/travelator.   

The closest the busway comes to CRR is Boggo Rd which is 2 stations from busway (Buranda).  This Station would be close to Matter Hill but it creates link between CRR and busway/Metro.  Like London there a lots of stations link up this way.

Would allow the corner where the station currently is to be developed.  Not sure where the current routes come out but maybe a small portal next to Stanley Street..

[timh]

After 204 pages this may have been discussed previously but looking at the above drawing and wonder if the Gabba Busway Station is best moved "in-line" under Stanley Street (jus a little east of the current busway and linked to CRR by underground walkway/travelator.   

The closest the busway comes to CRR is Boggo Rd which is 2 stations from busway (Buranda).  This Station would be close to Matter Hill but it creates link between CRR and busway/Metro.  Like London there a lots of stations link up this way.

Yeah we've discussed it before. It's not on the cards at the moment but I can see the benefit for sure. It would be quite an expensive remodeling though I think. Surfrail had some ideas how it would work iirc.

My opinion is that if it's not getting done now, it likely wont get done at all. So I'd rather see a Brisbane Metro Line 3 that goes from Kedron (or Chermside/bracken ridge if it ever goes that far) to Woolloongabba.

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[Jonno]

After 204 pages this may have been discussed previously but looking at the above drawing and wonder if the Gabba Busway Station is best moved "in-line" under Stanley Street (jus a little east of the current busway and linked to CRR by underground walkway/travelator.   

The closest the busway comes to CRR is Boggo Rd which is 2 stations from busway (Buranda).  This Station would be close to Matter Hill but it creates link between CRR and busway/Metro.  Like London there a lots of stations link up this way.

Yeah we've discussed it before. It's not on the cards at the moment but I can see the benefit for sure. It would be quite an expensive remodeling though I think. Surfrail had some ideas how it would work iirc.

My opinion is that if it's not getting done now, it likely wont get done at all. So I'd rather see a Brisbane Metro Line 3 that goes from Kedron (or Chermside/bracken ridge if it ever goes that far) to Woolloongabba.

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The sale of the air space above the current busway stop/parking bay could pay for it. 

[#Metro]

Is the suggestion an on-line Wooloongabba busway station to the SE busway?

About half of the SE busway services in peak are rockets, which are diverted off the SE busway and onto the Captain Cook Bridge.

There is a good reason for this - the busway cannot handle these volumes of buses at Cultural Centre.

An online station would cause interaction between buses that stop at Wooloongabba and those that are going through, which could cause major congestion in peak.

For this reason, it is fortunate that Wooloongabba station is off-line.

[Stillwater]

'Boggo Road Station' seems to have won out as a preferred name, even though opinion was divided about retaining 'Park Road' or changing -- the subject of a poll and some debate on this website. http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=2356.0

[HappyTrainGuy]

Interesting. There is what appears to be a bus stop concrete foundation and a place where a pole used to be. See the foreground left.

In an ideal world, buses would not have to divert off Fairfield Road to Yeronga to pick up pax when going outbound.

There are similar footpath markings all across brisbane. Even when a bus has never stopped there. Always have a chuckle seeing the bus bay markings and indentations knowing that a bus has never used it in over a decade.

https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-27.342736,152.9973968,3a,75y,235.46h,87.09t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1snCGC4Lq2mAUcHqDB2_RATA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Queensland government reviews social housing above new Gabba station $

The Queensland government will spend 10 months determining how much "affordable" housing will be included on the state government-owned land above the new Woolloongabba train station.

However, 50 per cent of the site – stretching from the Brisbane Cricket Ground across the Go Print site where the underground train station is being built – to the Morrison Hotel, will now be green space. ...

[Jonno]

Is the suggestion an on-line Wooloongabba busway station to the SE busway?

About half of the SE busway services in peak are rockets, which are diverted off the SE busway and onto the Captain Cook Bridge.

There is a good reason for this - the busway cannot handle these volumes of buses at Cultural Centre.

An online station would cause interaction between buses that stop at Wooloongabba and those that are going through, which could cause major congestion in peak.

For this reason, it is fortunate that Wooloongabba station is off-line.

This changes (or will/should) with Metro.. which we don't know yet

[SurfRail]

There is no change to the present arrangement for Brisbane Metro or CRR.

A properly built on-line station would not have the same constraints as Buranda and would cope better as an interchange between services going via South Bank or the CCB, but I'm not sure where you would put it without substantial tunnelling.

[Jonno]

Tunneling to connect the stations or tunneling to get bus station closer to CRR station?

[SurfRail]

Well the first and most obvious problem is that the Gabba station is not on the South East Busway, so you would need to either rebuild the busway to loop into the existing or a repositioned version of the station, or put the station on the existing alignment or a modified version of the existing alignment.  There's no cheap or easy fix, especially given the topography the busway follows between Ipswich Road and the Gabba junction.

[#Metro]

Tunneling to connect the stations or tunneling to get bus station closer to CRR station?

Like a Gabba busway portal into something like this? 

[Ari 🚋]

Tunneling to connect the stations or tunneling to get bus station closer to CRR station?

Like a Gabba busway portal into something like this? 

I wasn't involved in transit discussions when the BaT tunnel was a proposal, so out of curiosity, what actually was the issue with it? Cost, unneeded duplication, something else?

[ozbob]

^ there is a long thread on it here > https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=9972.0

It was stupid proposal that has set back public transport many years ....

[#Metro]

AOB, Campbell Newman was a qualified Civil Engineer.

Basically CRR and the SE Busway would be combined through the CBD.

It was a concept that needed refinement, as the busway portal would have been better at Wooloongabba and should pop up to run into the Northern Busway near RBWH.

Most members criticised it, but I'm usually devils advocate, and I couldn't see any engineering reasons preventing its construction. Most objections focused on two modes having combined stations but although unusual, isn't itself a demerit. Essentially all Rocket buses would have been removed from the Captain Cook Bridge with a refined proposal.

We now have to construct a separate tunnel for the buses in Adelaide street, which is happening now.

[ozbob]

^ the project was bullsh%t and was never going to be built.

All it did was push back CRR and lead to the less than optimal outcomes we now have.

Frankly, a disaster.

[Jonno]

^ there is a long thread on it here > https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=9972.0

It was stupid proposal that has set back public transport many years ....

Indeed.  Died in the trash can where it belonged (came from?).  I was thinking tunneling more like this


But all the levels of busway are wrong (in the context of the interconnection not when it was orgainlly designed) to make this anything but hard. Doable but hard and expensive but then so is 10-12 lanes of freeway.

[Gazza]

but I'm usually devils advocate

Oh boy, don't we know.

Most of the criticisms stemmed from:
-Frustration that a long awaited project was being redesigned and delayed for another term of government, when CRR was pretty much an ideal design.
-The deletion of Boggo rd interchange
-Reduction to 6 car trains rather than future proofing (so a 33% drop in future capacity)
-No northern connection (Trains would turn back near Vic Park)
-Reduction in tunnel length
-A sense of general inefficiency, it would have shifted the bus bottleneck to Gabba and RBWH instead (Some submissions by non Rbot experts highlighted this)
-At the time it was thought the bus congestion could just be fixed by just reforming the bus network, which is going to happen anyway with Brisbane metro.

[#Metro]

I take the view that these issues could have been dealt with in a refinement.

The Newman Government wasn't known to take feedback well, and there was a political need to frame the prior red team project as waste. This led to pressure to cut the headline cost.

I'm not sure that Brisbane bus metro is the long term solution. I think BCC will balk at cutting their 1970s flagship rocket bus system. And I think it will fill up quickly.  A good thing though is the laws on larger buses will likely change to allow vehicles to run in Australia, which will benefit other cities in Australia.

Ultimately I think Brisbane will follow Ottawa, Canada and replace it with rail. The network structure you get with rail is very different to bus and, importantly, cross town service is much easier as both city bound and cross town passengers are on the same feeder bus.

Network structure has generally been neglected in favour of comparing speed, frequency, service pattern etc, but I suspect it may explain why rail services attract more passengers when they replace bus services even when the service characteristics are similar (e.g GC light rail got 25% new passengers, even though frequency is similar to the buses it replaced).

[Gazza]

I take the view that these issues could have been dealt with in a refinement.

The Newman Government wasn't known to take feedback well

Therein lies the problem. Of course, everything could have been fixed, but to fix it effectively would mean it would resemble the original CRR with a bonus upper deck.

And the chances of a re-elected Newman government fixing these things would be close to zero.

[#Metro]

AOB, you might be interested in the 1965 Brisbane Transportation Study. It's a pity that we don't have serious citywide plans like this anymore. They were really thorough with the data collection and so forth. https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=3304.0

There is a drawing inside the 1965 plan of a busway concept, well before busways were a thing.
In this proposal, the Cleveland line would also have fed into the tunnel.

[SurfRail]

but I'm usually devils advocate

Oh boy, don't we know.

Most of the criticisms stemmed from:
-Frustration that a long awaited project was being redesigned and delayed for another term of government, when CRR was pretty much an ideal design.
-The deletion of Boggo rd interchange
-Reduction to 6 car trains rather than future proofing (so a 33% drop in future capacity)
-No northern connection (Trains would turn back near Vic Park)
-Reduction in tunnel length
-A sense of general inefficiency, it would have shifted the bus bottleneck to Gabba and RBWH instead (Some submissions by non Rbot experts highlighted this)
-At the time it was thought the bus congestion could just be fixed by just reforming the bus network, which is going to happen anyway with Brisbane metro.

I also recall there was some fire safety issue that they basically had no way of resolving.

[Ari 🚋]

AOB, you might be interested in the 1965 Brisbane Transportation Study. It's a pity that we don't have serious citywide plans like this anymore. They were really thorough with the data collection and so forth. https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=3304.0

There is a drawing inside the 1965 plan of a busway concept, well before busways were a thing.
In this proposal, the Cleveland line would also have fed into the tunnel.

It's a massive shame that these more comprehensive city plans aren't really done anymore. I feel like the more piecemeal approach leads to the city failing to properly consider how everything fits together, and you end up with a mix of weirdly integrated poster projects rather than a more 'boring' but effective transport network

[ozbob]

[ozbob]

COVID-19 and CRR update 12th February 2022 from Roma Street.

> https://www.facebook.com/watch/live/?ref=notif&v=968627817422805&notif_id=1644620514727051&notif_t=live_video_explicit

Some discussion on the station upgrades.

Transport Minister on from the ~ 9 minute 30 second mark ^

====

8 minutes 45 sec 

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/MarkBaileyMP/status/1492303880407105536