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Author Topic: Route 77 to UQ Lakes?  (Read 2936 times)

Offline #Metro

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Route 77 to UQ Lakes?
« on: October 22, 2015, 05:39:29 AM »
Hello.

Just want to check the level of support / opposition for a proposal to send route 77 to UQ Lakes. This would give an express run for passengers at Northern busway stations direct to UQ, Brisbane's second busiest destination after the CBD.

The current classification for route 77 is Patronage, with low/very low value for money and low/very low patronage (Bus Review 2013).

Under an altered route 77, the bus would serve Buranda Busway Station, and then continue through the Eastern Busway, over the Eleanor Schonell Bridge and to UQ Lakes.

An alternative also exists to send the bus from RBWH through Fortitude Valley, over the Story Bridge and then via W'Gabba Busway to UQ Lakes.

Perhaps a study / passenger feedback could be used for planners to decide which one would maximise patronage.

http://jp.translink.com.au/travel-information/network-information/buses/T/77

Please share your thoughts below.
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Offline techblitz

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Re: Route 77 to UQ Lakes?
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2015, 07:56:40 AM »
its clear as day sending it to UQ will get its patronage up tenfold...and a reduction in frequency of the 29 would improve it even more....

Online ozbob

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Re: Route 77 to UQ Lakes?
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2015, 08:04:08 AM »
its clear as day sending it to UQ will get its patronage up tenfold...and a reduction in frequency of the 29 would improve it even more....

 :-t
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Offline #Metro

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Re: Route 77 to UQ Lakes?
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2015, 08:27:20 AM »
Any other views? Dissentions?

Happy to hear all.  :is-
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Online James

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Re: Route 77 to UQ Lakes?
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2015, 10:05:15 AM »
If you sent it via RBWH and the Story Bridge that'll kill its OTP and just make it another bus clogging up the system.

Agree though that sending it to UQ Lakes is necessary. Perhaps it needs to go via Buranda though? Not sure how hard it would be to make that happen though, and it would send it the 'wrong way' through.
Is it really that hard to run frequent, reliable public transport?

Offline red dragin

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Re: Route 77 to UQ Lakes?
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2015, 11:03:27 AM »
I'd go tunnels, into O'Keefe, right into busway, through Burunda then off to UQ Lakes.

Opens up an interchange option from the tunnels and from the Busway.

Offline hU0N

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Re: Route 77 to UQ Lakes?
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2015, 12:55:45 PM »
What red dragin said, but also, reroute the 66 to start/finish at Truro Street Station.  That way the 66/77 become something like an express/local pair from the mid northern suburbs to the mid southern suburbs.

Offline aldonius

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Re: Route 77 to UQ Lakes?
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2015, 01:49:03 PM »
You're proposing it go through Buranda via O'Keefe/Gillingham, yeah?

Disagree that Buranda is sufficiently relevant for the level of diversion required. Current patronage shows that the crosstown demand isn't that significant. There's still all the other buses available from Boggo Road, and access to the Beenleigh and Gold Coast lines opened up (without going through the City).

If you give up on Buranda it could save a full 5 minutes on the northbound trip (PAH-lower and slip left onto Ipswich Rd). O'Keefe St is very easily congested.

Also, keeping the tunnel trip is a must. Otherwise the time savings disappear.

Offline red dragin

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Re: Route 77 to UQ Lakes?
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2015, 02:11:46 PM »
My thought was more towards the current passengers loosing a connection.

I guess though, like the whole Nundah & Toombul issue being discussed - does the passenger demand warrant such a diversion? Without the Buranda stop it would take two extra transfers to reach say Griffith Uni, instead of the one if it stopped at Buranda (I assume, unless there is a UQ - south route).

Online James

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Re: Route 77 to UQ Lakes?
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2015, 02:21:21 PM »
You're proposing it go through Buranda via O'Keefe/Gillingham, yeah?

Disagree that Buranda is sufficiently relevant for the level of diversion required. Current patronage shows that the crosstown demand isn't that significant. There's still all the other buses available from Boggo Road, and access to the Beenleigh and Gold Coast lines opened up (without going through the City).

If you give up on Buranda it could save a full 5 minutes on the northbound trip (PAH-lower and slip left onto Ipswich Rd). O'Keefe St is very easily congested.

PAH-lower would cause legibility issues (stops on the Platform in one direction and downstairs in the other), so you'd have to keep it going around via the current exit portal IMO. I think there's no right turn currently allowed there (from the busway on to the exit portal), but treatment to enhance intersection visibility should render that a non-issue.

Now, lets look at the number of services serving Buranda:
Core routes: 120, 170, 180, 555
Secondary routes/Routes already covered by UQ Lakes services: 111, 139, 160, 161, 169, 209, 222
Peak-only routes (oh dear): 114, 121, 171, 178, 181, 243, 250, 251, 261, 265, 267, 273, 275, 276, 279, 281, 299, 551, 561, 566, 571, 573, 575, 577, 579, P119, P173, P176, P179, P201, P205, P208, P217, P546, P569, P581

Serving PA Hospital Busway:
Core Routes: 66, 139, 169, 209
Secondary routes: 29, 104, 105
Peak-only routes: 107, 108

Would be interesting to see how many people are transferring between the 120/170/180/555 and the 77. That would probably sway my opinion as to whether to run it via Buranda or not. Most of those peak-only routes are probably made up of >80% City-bound passengers, with the amount wanting to go to the northside so small it could probably be ignored.

My thought was more towards the current passengers loosing a connection.

I guess though, like the whole Nundah & Toombul issue being discussed - does the passenger demand warrant such a diversion? Without the Buranda stop it would take two extra transfers to reach say Griffith Uni, instead of the one if it stopped at Buranda (I assume, unless there is a UQ - south route).

77 + 139/169, simple.
Is it really that hard to run frequent, reliable public transport?

Offline #Metro

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Re: Route 77 to UQ Lakes?
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2015, 04:05:45 PM »
Quote
If you sent it via RBWH and the Story Bridge that'll kill its OTP and just make it another bus clogging up the system.

Yes, it can get busy (even with Clem7 tunnel  :hg). Story Bridge is 3 lanes / 3 lanes. Bus or T2 lanes could be established in the far right lanes.

The advantage of Story Bridge is you hit extra passenger destinations: RBWH, Fortitude Valley, Kangaroo Pt, W'Gabba that you could not hit with the tunnel option. Yes, the tunnel might be faster, but that's what we have now already, and the patronage is LOW. It's really about a tradeoff: Higher speed/low passengers vs lower speed/potentially more passengers. KP is still rather hard to access IMHO unless you go right into the CBD and get the ferry across.

Quote
You're proposing it go through Buranda via O'Keefe/Gillingham, yeah?

Not quite. There are two options, we don't absolutely have to pick one or the other (planners can figure that out) but need to be aware of their existence. Perhaps a trial??

----
OPTION 1: UQ Lakes via Tunnel
Service begins at Chermside, continues via Northern Busway then through Clem 7 tunnel, then through Buranda busway station, Eastern Busway and on to UQ Lakes.

Advantages: High speed retained, access to SE Busway retained at Buranda, direct access to UQ from Northern Busway stations north of RBWH.

Disadvantages: Long tunnel section means surface passengers are bypassed.

OPTION 2: UQ Lakes via Story Bridge
Service begins at Chermside, continues via the Northern Busway then through RBWH, through Fortitude Valley, Kangaroo Point, Wooloongabba Busway, Buranda Busway, Eastern Busway, UQ Lakes

Advantages: Opens up access to passenger markets at RBWH, Fortitude Valley, Kangaroo Point, and Woolloongabba that are not possible with the tunnel option. Access to rail network at Fortitude Valley and Park Road.

Disadvantages: Surface streets are slower than via tunnel.
----

Quote
PAH-lower would cause legibility issues (stops on the Platform in one direction and downstairs in the other), so you'd have to keep it going around via the current exit portal IMO. I think there's no right turn currently allowed there (from the busway on to the exit portal), but treatment to enhance intersection visibility should render that a non-issue.

Ok, I can see this from Google Maps. Yes, I think it would be easy to fix that. Don't really want to use the underside of PAH, nobody will see it.

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Offline pandmaster

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Re: Route 77 to UQ Lakes?
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2015, 01:04:34 AM »
As a former frequent 77 user (transferred to go to UQ) I was in favour of it going all the way, via CLEM7. It would boost patronage, massively open up the Northside to UQ while Griffith passengers can transfer. It is a short walk from the current O'Keefe Street stops to Buranda and not worth the diversion IMHO. It would be a boost to Park Road as well, enabling a quick trip from say Chermside to rail stations south of Park Road.

Offline SurfRail

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Re: Route 77 to UQ Lakes?
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2015, 07:19:17 AM »
I'd be open to merging it with the 29 and running via the Valley and Main Street.  That corridor is quite underserviced for an inner city location.

You could run via Buranda, or not.  Running time difference to do a loop via Buranda wouldn't be huge and would enable same-platform interchange to get further south from the Gabba, but it would add a few minutes.
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Offline HappyTrainGuy

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Re: Route 77 to UQ Lakes?
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2015, 10:08:53 AM »
Keep the 77 out of the City. Want to get to the RBWH then get on the 330, 333, 334, 340, 370, 375, 379. The main advantage of the 77 is the time savings for cross town travel. If there is the smallest problem in the city in the afternoon it just blows the whole bus network up due to congestion. What other form of public transport can get you from Chermside at 7am to Griffith Uni before 7.25am. Imagine Translink marketing Chermside-UQ in 30 minutes during peak hour. The 330 takes nearly the same time/longer to get to CCBS. The advantage of that is that the northern Chermside routes lose the uni patronage and relieves pressure on the CCBS-RBWH with all the workers and students trying to go home at the same time.

Another thing. Get the 77 to use the interchange stop to make transfers for those coming off/to other routes easier ie 320/322/330/331/332/334/335/336/337/338/340/341/why not just list every route that uses the interchange and to speed up the city-chermside leg even more.

Offline verbatim9

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Re: Route 77 to UQ Lakes?
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2015, 11:25:04 AM »
I utilise the service from Chermside to Griffith Uni to Transfer to the 130 saves heaps of time and cash. Also use to go to upper Mount Gravett. It's a great route express through the Clem 7

Offline SurfRail

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Re: Route 77 to UQ Lakes?
« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2015, 11:34:34 AM »
I'd love a non-stop bus from my house to Broadbeach.  Doesn't mean I deserve one.
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Offline pandmaster

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Re: Route 77 to UQ Lakes?
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2015, 11:53:08 AM »
I'd be open to merging it with the 29 and running via the Valley and Main Street.

The 29 is very high frequency for parts of the day (20 bph) which a merged 77 would not be. Could be managed by having a 77a or something like that. I think it is a bad idea to take the 29 out of the busway due to the reduced reliability. It serves an important role taking pax that may otherwise use the other routes from UQ Lakes. UQ-Park Road pax are best on the 29 to free up space for longer distance commuters on the other routes, From time to time I see people left on the platform at UQ as the bus (e.g. 169, 209) is full, then a bunch of people get off at Park Road. If the 29 were less reliable that may encourage people onto other routes for short trips.

If the 77 is altered to go to UQ through the tunnel it should be "trialled" for a decent period of time. It should be timetabled to arrive and depart UQ at appropriate times for classes. This way people will be given the incentive and opportunity to move to the Northside with the improved travel time. Housing around UQ on both sides of the river is pretty expensive, so this would open up some cheaper housing (which may be eroded if demand increases) for students.

Offline Gazza

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Re: Route 77 to UQ Lakes?
« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2015, 01:48:12 PM »
Not sure on the logic of sending the 77 via the storey bridge because it picks up the valley....370 and 375 does that.

Online James

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Re: Route 77 to UQ Lakes?
« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2015, 03:45:04 PM »
I'd be open to merging it with the 29 and running via the Valley and Main Street.  That corridor is quite underserviced for an inner city location.

I don't get what is with people thinking the 29 running up to RBWH via the Story Bridge is a good idea. The 29 is a route which is primarily for picking up passengers left behind by UQ Lakes bound buses at Boggo Road/PAH, with the bus terminating at Wooloongabba being a convenient turnaround (with a bonus of being convenient for buses going through Wooloongabba). It is a high frequency sweeper route, nothing more.

I'd love a non-stop bus from my house to Broadbeach.  Doesn't mean I deserve one.

You have one already, it is called a car/taxi/Uber.

A 77 sent to UQ is in a totally different ball park. For starters, a car can't cross the Green bridge, and your house is less of a trip generator than Chermside, one of Brisbane's major bus hubs and retail precincts.
Is it really that hard to run frequent, reliable public transport?

Offline #Metro

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Re: Route 77 to UQ Lakes?
« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2015, 05:17:17 PM »
I think we can leave the route 29 out of this discussion - the 29 has a very high frequency, unlikely to be suitable for matching with the rerouted 77.

Kangaroo Pt is really not well serviced with buses. The current 234 is not frequent enough to make that connection from W'Gabba reliably.
If you check out realestate.com.au there is quite a lot of share and rooming accommodation available that would strongly appeal to students. Particularly that close to Fortitude valley and the CBD. Young people do want to live close to entertainment venues.



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Online ozbob

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Re: Route 77 to UQ Lakes?
« Reply #20 on: October 25, 2015, 03:11:18 AM »
Sent to all outlets:

25th October 2015

Route Review: Reroute 77 bus to UQ Lakes

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web-based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers calls for TransLink to reroute Brisbane City Council bus route 77 to UQ Lakes.

The route 77 bus currently provides a service between Chermside and Eight Mile Plains via the Clem 7 tunnel. Patronage on the 77 bus is poor. In its current form, route 77 will never achieve all-day high patronage outside of peak hours. It does not link together different passenger destinations very well. Although the long tunnel section means high speed, it also means poor passenger access as passenger demand generators are all located on the surface. Indeed, TransLink has previously attempted to scrap this route, describing it as ‘Low value for money’ and ‘Low capacity utilisation’.

We think major changes are necessary. Our members agree that the 77 bus should be redirected to UQ Lakes.  RAIL Back on Track members have identified two potential options for Route 77 rerouting:

OPTION 1: UQ Lakes via Clem 7 Tunnel

Service begins at Chermside, continues via Northern Busway then through Clem 7 tunnel, then through Buranda busway station, Eastern Busway and on to UQ Lakes.

Advantages: High speed retained, access to SE Busway retained at Buranda, direct access to UQ from Northern Busway stations north of RBWH.

Disadvantages: Long tunnel section means surface passengers are bypassed.

OPTION 2: UQ Lakes via Story Bridge


Service begins at Chermside, continues via the Northern Busway then through RBWH, through Fortitude Valley, Kangaroo Point, Woolloongabba Busway, Buranda Busway, Eastern Busway, UQ Lakes

Advantages: Opens up access to passenger markets at RBWH, Fortitude Valley, Kangaroo Point, and Woolloongabba that are not possible with the tunnel option. Access to rail network at Fortitude Valley and Park Road.

Disadvantages: Surface streets are slower than via tunnel.

In both options, route 77 would connect to UQ Lakes at The University of Queensland, the second largest trip generator after the Brisbane CBD. We believe TransLink should forecast patronage for both options, and consult with passengers, university students and residents around Woolloongabba, Kangaroo Point, and Fortitude Valley to determine whether a via-tunnel or via-Story Bridge option is the best.

Far too many empty and half-capacity buses on the Brisbane bus network, incredibly, even during peak hour. We badly need bus reforms to unlock major gains in service quality for passengers.

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

Reference:

Reroute 77
http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=11740.0
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Offline verbatim9

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Re: Route 77 to UQ Lakes?
« Reply #21 on: October 30, 2015, 09:02:17 PM »
Where would the transfer point be for people using the 77 for Griffith Uni. The bus would have to turn right and go straight to UQ and bypassing Buranda as a transfer point? (Can't people transfer to the 139 or 169 currently at Buranda. Do they have trouble climbing the stairs to the other platform?).
« Last Edit: October 30, 2015, 09:11:31 PM by verbatim9 »

Offline pandmaster

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Re: Route 77 to UQ Lakes?
« Reply #22 on: October 30, 2015, 09:22:03 PM »
Where would the transfer point be for people using the 77 for Griffith Uni. The bus would have to turn right and go straight to UQ and bypassing Buranda as a transfer point? (Can't people transfer to the 139 or 169 currently at Buranda. Do they have trouble climbing the stairs to the other platform?).

If it does not travel via Buranda it is a short (my estimate would be 200-300 metres) and relatively flat, walk from the O'Keefe Street stop to Buranda station where there are ample buses to Griffith. Alternatively the 139 or 169 from the PA Hospital.

Online James

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Re: Route 77 to UQ Lakes?
« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2015, 11:26:31 PM »
Current situation: Direct service provided to Griffith Uni. Transfer to 139, 169 or 209 at Buranda for UQ Lakes (cross platform transfer).

Alternative (77 to UQ) situation: For travel to Griffith Uni, transfer to the 139 or 169 at PA Hospital or walk to Buranda busway station from O'Keefe St stop. Direct service provided to UQ Lakes.
Is it really that hard to run frequent, reliable public transport?

 

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