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Little interest in a BUZ 375?

Started by somebody, November 16, 2010, 16:23:13 PM

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somebody

Checking the BUZification polls on this site, it scored 2 votes in the first one, and the Bardon side scored only one vote in the second poll.  Checking the timetable, this runs at a 15 minute frequency between the peaks.  This is near to the situation for the 412 before it was BUZed.  The routing would need to be changed, either:
(a) run eastbound along Roma St to Edward St and then Adelaide St, and westbound enter the busway at Turbot St to serve Roma St station.  Also, extend the 374 to the "Bardon" stop on Macgregor Tce.
(b) split it in two and have a 385 like inner part for the Bardon service, and just use Adelaide St for the Stafford City service.  This would make the 374 a pointless route in the PM.

Why is there no interest in improvements to this route, while everyone whinges about the unreliability and overloading of the 385?

#Metro

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#Metro

Ah ok.

I think it is a great idea somebody. I think that the inner city could look at moving to a "tram on tyres" system with the same frequency, reliability and priority. So routes like 375, 196, 330, 450 etc should be looked at for BUZification. (there is some overlap, for example 375 overlaps with 385, 196 overlaps with 199) this very high frequency might not be a problem, but if it is, make it more express!

IMHO maybe the 375 should be extended all the way along Stafford Road to Michelton Train Station and Brookside Shopping Centre.
At the moment it just terminates at Stafford City Shopping Centre.

What do you think?

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somebody

#4
I'd say probably only selected trips.  You could also extend the less frequent 379.

One of the major whinges about Brisbane's bus system is that it doesn't allow for cross town trips.  I'd have to say this doesn't affect me much: I live at Indooroopilly, so the CBD isn't too far away, and pretty much every imaginable trip has some sort of bus service, or a car trip would require a trip through the CBD anyway.  Well, counting ICB/Riverside expressway as through CBD.

So, I guess I'm reserving judgement a little on that one TT.

#Metro

But 379 doesn't go to Michelton Rail / Brookside either. It only extends to Grange "during shopping hours" which adds another layer of unpredictability on top of the 30 minute frequency.

It seems strange that the bus will only take you 1/2 down Stafford Road before terminating.
I like Derwan's "spider web network"- connect everything up. This would do that connection.
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somebody

I meant use it to do the extension.  So "you could also extend the 379".

#Metro

You could extend 379. But would it really be better than just extending 375, straight line, just a bit further down the road?
And you get the BUZ frequency too..., with 379 not.
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somebody

Would there be a demand for a Stafford City-Brookside route outside shopping hours?

#Metro

#9
What makes you think there wouldn't?
Or for a BUZ 375 for that matter?
Or an extended 379?

Good cross town connection between BUZ 345 and Michelton Station / Brookside. Straight line down the road too.
I think there would be demand. I've tried to make the trip myself a few times... I have to walk along Stafford Rd from BUZ 345 down there.
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somebody

Well, for a start, the major trip generators would be closed.

#Metro

#11
The last 375 bus reaches Stafford City at 11:10 pm.

The fact that a shopping centre is closed hasn't stopped a service being run there.
Public transport must link up with the radial routes such as BUZ and Rail to allow cross town connections.
It must be reliable, regular and frequent. BUZ has shown that people will use it if you give them the chance.

Edit: Brookside Woolies is open to 9pm on weekdays, stores open 9pm Thursdays.
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WTN

Good point Tramtrain. Buses to Carindale, Chermside and Garden City don't stop either because the shopping centres have closed.
Unless otherwise stated, all views and comments are the author's own and not of any organisation or government body.

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somebody

But how many of the buses late at night are cross town routes?

#Metro

Extension would not be that hard either- its 3.5 or so km down the road.
Can't get world class public transport if you don't ask for it...
Negative people... have a problem for every solution. Posts are commentary and are not necessarily endorsed by RAIL Back on Track or its members.

#Metro

#15
QuoteBut how many of the buses late at night are cross town routes?
Yes, but how many buses at any time in Brisbane are cross town? One maybe- GCL? The one with low frequency?
That's not because of a lack of demand IMHO. There is this assumption that people only want to travel to the CBD and back home again.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/early-bird-gets-the-traffic-jam-20101115-17ucp.html

Quote
While only 28 per cent of people used their car to drive in and out of the CBD, more than 70 per cent of drivers used their cars and work vehicles to travel around the southeast corner.

"What about the other 72 per cent [of journeys] not going into the CBD?" Mr Cridland said.

"Well, 92 per cent of them are by car."

There is, without doubt, demand for travel cross town, non-cbd. Absolutely there.
Its only that the car has almost 100% of the share of that travel market. And why is that?


Very simple. No demand can be observed if no supply is put on.
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#Metro

We can test this idea too. 6 month trial of the extension + BUZ 375 is done to test demand and get real-world proof.
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somebody

I wouldn't be optimistic to be honest.

If it is 28% of people use their car to get in to the CBD, is that 28% of people who are going to the CBD or using their car?  The follow up question implies the latter, but normally one would expect the former.  72% PT mode share for CBD would still be quite low, and we are ignoring active transport here.

beauyboy

I have always liked the idea of the 375BUZ. I also like the idea of the route being extended through to Brookside. This will give a better connections and services.

The only thing really stopping the extention is that stupid Station they put in a Stafford City a few years ago. The only way to make the extension work would be to reinstate the old Stafford City Station and install a set of traffic lights in to allow east bound Bus Traffic to turn into what is the old station.

Donald
www.space4cyclingbne.com
www.cbdbug.org.au

#Metro

I caught this bus today!

The bus gets stuck in congestion along with all other buses trying to exit the city via Adelaide street. This is probably the longest part!
A lot of people get on the bus in Fortitude Valley. I wouldn't call it crowded, but there were a couple of people standing in the aisle.

Even in peak hour the service is not that frequent. It is about ~15-20 minutes. One very surprising thing is that a lot of people jumped off the bus at RBWH and ran to the 333 bus to do a transfer. Maybe these people were from the Valley?

After 7 pm the service dies- it becomes hourly!

I agree with beauyboy. The bus stop is very badly designed. The city bound bus actually passes the passenger (at a very speed restricted 10 km/hour too) and exits the shopping centre car park before having to turn around and come back again to pick the passenger up. It seems silly.

The passenger stop could be turned into an island stop by resuming a few carparks (about 16). This would allow buses to circulate the platform, in a similar way as the Cannon Hill bus interchange or Chermside Interchange is built. Alternatively two roundabouts could be placed at either end to allow the bus to turn around.

IMHO this could have BUZ, but IMHO the extension to Michelton Rail station and Brookside will probably be essential IMHO. Stafford Rd is a nice arterial road, could do with a bit of a T2 lane.

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somebody

#20
Quote from: tramtrain on November 17, 2010, 21:23:13 PM
After 7 pm the service dies- it becomes hourly!
Hence my questioning.  15 minute daytime service in weekdays, but quickly dropping back to hourly suggests a lot of latent demand that has been untapped.

If there was an 8 minute service with the 370 & 379 from the Valley to RBH in the daytime, this would actually be pretty good.  Perhaps it would need assistance from the 334 which could move over to ValleyStop 211 from 212.  346/353/335/P339 shouldn't route via the Valley, in my current opinion.

Golliwog

Would the 375 becoming a BUZ mean it also starts only serving specific stops? I wouldn't support that. They need to have frequent all stops services too. Especially given how people use it on the Ashgrove side of the route,  as you already have the 385 to run as the limited stops route.
There is no silver bullet... but there is silver buckshot.
Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

#Metro

QuoteWould the 375 becoming a BUZ mean it also starts only serving specific stops? I wouldn't support that. They need to have frequent all stops services too. Especially given how people use it on the Ashgrove side of the route,  as you already have the 385 to run as the limited stops route.

This one is a bit tricky, as most (but not all - see 199) are Bus Rapid Transit services which stop at limited stops to speed up the services. There are a few possibilities:

1. Stop at all stops
2. Stop at limited stops (double the frequency at BUZ 385 stops)
3. Skip-stop operation- a bus stop either has a BUZ 385 or a BUZ 375 but not both.

Each one has their disadvantages/advantages. Which one is better?
Negative people... have a problem for every solution. Posts are commentary and are not necessarily endorsed by RAIL Back on Track or its members.

Golliwog

I would think you would go for all-stops, if they want a faster trip they can catch the 385. Although it won't be much faster given that they aren't very far from the city to begin with. I would think though that they would go along the route and check how close the bus stops along the route are and if theres any that are way to close, remove the stop.
There is no silver bullet... but there is silver buckshot.
Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

somebody

Should be all stops.  I would have thought that there was no argument possible.

What I do think is an interesting question is if it should route eastbound via:
(a) the current Herschel St routing
(b) split the route into two, with the Bardon side going into KGSBS
(c) go with my proposed Roma St/Edward St routing

Westbound it should also serve Roma St station rather than the street stop outside.

Golliwog

I think if its going to serve the busway at Roma St, it should do it in both directions. Otherwise its just a bit confusing.

I also don't think the route should be split in two. But thats because I think we need less routes that terminate and leave buses sitting in the CBD waiting to start their next run.
There is no silver bullet... but there is silver buckshot.
Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

somebody

Quote from: Golliwog on November 18, 2010, 09:42:39 AM
I think if its going to serve the busway at Roma St, it should do it in both directions. Otherwise its just a bit confusing.
Translink would agree with that!  If it serves it outbound only, I don't think it would be too confusing.  The problem comes when serving it inbound only.  In that case people who caught the bus inbound can be caught out by waiting for the bus on the outbound platform which isn't coming.  I don't see the equivalent case for times the station is served outbound only.  Sydneysiders have been able to work these things out for decades though, most notably with the effect of Castlereagh St, which is one way for what is outbound only.

Quote from: Golliwog on November 18, 2010, 09:42:39 AM
I also don't think the route should be split in two. But thats because I think we need less routes that terminate and leave buses sitting in the CBD waiting to start their next run.
While I don't think that's priority, congestion in the CBD & Cultural Centre (where the Bardon side would presumably extend) is an issue, I agree.

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