What's the next most pressing BUZification?

[somebody]

What do people think about this one?  I've allowed 3 votes per user.

[ozbob]

Although I support Buz 100, needs to be reassessed when Richlands in full swing.

[#Metro]

Definitely BUZ 300 and BUZ 100.
The 100 bus serves a different catchment- Ipswich Road, so even if there were a train line to Springfield it would not automatically spell the end of the BUZ. Anyway, we can get a BUZ 100 sooner than we will ever get a rail line to Springfield.

BUZ 300 = no brainer.

[somebody]

Post Richlands it makes sense for the 100 to extend there.  Then you'd wonder what you need the 460 for, except the Sumner Rd part.

[O_128]

412 definently

[Otto]

.
I have voted 204, 180 and 100........... 300 would be my fourth vote if allowed..

[somebody]

I like the person that voted "Something I didn't list" but then didn't put in a comment to explain.

[ozbob]

Relax ... they are probably thinking of what to say, or maybe it was just an error ..   

[Jon Bryant]

I just voted Other because we need to BUZ any route that runs as a trunk route on a main road.  This may include changing routes do they stick to the main road and not backstreets of suburbs.

[stephenk]

100 - because it serves some public transport blackholes, one of which is low socio-economic, the other is car dependance central.
300 - as it already has a 20min frequency during the day, and provides a partial alternative to a certain infrequent railway line.
370/375/379 - not necessarily Buz'ed, but a combined timetabled to provide a frequent homogenous service between Fortitude Valley and RBWH would be nice.
390 - because it passes by my front door (however it serves many stops not served by the 345 on their combined route, so would need to remain the all stops service which isn't a trademark of the Buz routes).
350 - route through residential areas, mainly away from rail, and should be able to generate similar traffic to 345 is Buz'ed.

[albiwan]

100 is the most pressing, but it should be modified to incorporate Acacia Ridge and return to Blunder Road via Bowhill Rd from Beatty Road. The 100 travels a lot of Ipswich Road featuring Industrial car focused usage. However, Acacia Ridge is a suburb only 12 to 14 K's from the city which could do with the profile boost of a high frequency service.

[somebody]

100 ... should be modified to incorporate Acacia Ridge and return to Blunder Road via Bowhill Rd from Beatty Road. The 100 travels a lot of Ipswich Road featuring Industrial car focused usage. However, Acacia Ridge is a suburb only 12 to 14 K's from the city which could do with the profile boost of a high frequency service.

I would disagree with this one, unless the intention is to serve the airport.  The 110/115 serve these areas, although the south side of the airport is only served by the 110.  One of my other suggestions is to re-route the 130 via Hellawell Rd and the 132 via Calam Rd and Beaudert Rd (i.e. swap them around), then can the 115 for 110 frequency.  The only reason then that I can see for what you are suggesting would be to serve the airport.

I just voted Other because we need to BUZ any route that runs as a trunk route on a main road.  This may include changing routes do they stick to the main road and not backstreets of suburbs.

Ok, you are consistent.  The question was: what is the next most pressing.  I wouldn't mind if you argued for a different strategy than BUZification though.

370/375/379 - not necessarily Buz'ed, but a combined timetabled to provide a frequent homogenous service between Fortitude Valley and RBWH would be nice.

You are missing the 334/335/343/356 as we talked about in "30 issues ...".  These routes, it could be argued, may need to be re-routed heading to the city.  Although having a different stop to the other routes is less important in this direction.

350 - route through residential areas, mainly away from rail, and should be able to generate similar traffic to 345 is Buz'ed.

Oh boy, I wasn't expecting this one to be brought up.  I have a few issues with the 350, in particular the way it serves the part of Albany Creek Rd between Aspley Hypermarket and Beckett Rd.  It should be left to the 345 to serve this and the 350 serve more far flung areas.  Also the Wardell St service seems a little mean to inflict on such a long service, but I guess there aren't many good alternatives here.

390 - because it passes by my front door (however it serves many stops not served by the 345 on their combined route, so would need to remain the all stops service which isn't a trademark of the Buz routes).

I've got real issues with this one too.  Terminating at Brookside is a real lost oportunity.  It would be better to continue to Upper Kedron, but even better would be serving somewhere on the north side of the train line which also has a poor service.

100 leading by far.

[longboi]

Oh boy, I wasn't expecting this one to be brought up.  I have a few issues with the 350, in particular the way it serves the part of Albany Creek Rd between Aspley Hypermarket and Beckett Rd.  It should be left to the 345 to serve this and the 350 serve more far flung areas.  Also the Wardell St service seems a little mean to inflict on such a long service, but I guess there aren't many good alternatives here.

A simple solution to this would be to perma-route 350 along Beckett Rd, left on A-C Rd and continue to Albany Village and extend the 345 to do the Pinnaroo loop.

I've got real issues with this one too.  Terminating at Brookside is a real lost oportunity.  It would be better to continue to Upper Kedron, but even better would be serving somewhere on the north side of the train line which also has a poor service.

The issue with extending the 390 is that you would probably have to eliminate the all-stop service and that is what contributes to the routes success. On the other hand, the 367 could be improved by providing operating hours and frequency to match rail services and perhaps having it service Great Western S/C full time and extend it to Brookside. It would be more or less a mirror of the 397/98 in the way it would operate but primarily servicing the Samford Rd corridor and Upper Kedron.

[Golliwog]

The issue with extending the 390 is that you would probably have to eliminate the all-stop service and that is what contributes to the routes success. On the other hand, the 367 could be improved by providing operating hours and frequency to match rail services and perhaps having it service Great Western S/C full time and extend it to Brookside. It would be more or less a mirror of the 397/98 in the way it would operate but primarily servicing the Samford Rd corridor and Upper Kedron.

Why would extending the service mean you would have to eliminate it as an all stops service? 367 always going to the Great Western would be an improvement. Might finally see a bus using all those bus stops the put in on Samford road when they widened it to 4 lanes. I could kind of see the benefit of extending it to Brookside, although if you did that, I think it should stop having the Great Western excursion making it a loop and just go Upper Kedron, FG station, Great Western, Brookside and then back again. At the same time the 362 that already goes between the Great Western and Brookside could do with improved frequency. It has a good catchment area, but doesnt get used much because it only comes once an hour.

[longboi]

The issue with extending the 390 is that you would probably have to eliminate the all-stop service and that is what contributes to the routes success. On the other hand, the 367 could be improved by providing operating hours and frequency to match rail services and perhaps having it service Great Western S/C full time and extend it to Brookside. It would be more or less a mirror of the 397/98 in the way it would operate but primarily servicing the Samford Rd corridor and Upper Kedron.

Why would extending the service mean you would have to eliminate it as an all stops service?

Oh yeah I meant to explain that one... Its because the City-Mitchelton run is slow enough as it is.

[Golliwog]

But I would have thought most people wouldn't be using it for the whole run. If they were going to the city, it would make more sense for people to change at Mitchelton, Gaythorne or even Alderley stations.

[ButFli]

195, 196, 197 should be made BUZ to compliment the 199.

[longboi]

But I would have thought most people wouldn't be using it for the whole run. If they were going to the city, it would make more sense for people to change at Mitchelton, Gaythorne or even Alderley stations.

Probably, which is why I think an improved 367 would be more effective. You don't have the reliability issues as you might with the 390 because its not stuck in commuter traffic and quite honestly I don't think there is a need for 15min frequencies to Upper Kedron (which is what the 390 runs at during weekdays).

[Golliwog]

I still think having the 390 continue down Samford Rd is something that should be looked at. Not just for Upper Kedrons sake, but for suburbs inbetween. I live in Keperra and usually end up driving to FG station because its the same distance away as Keperra and I don't fancy a 20 minute walk to the station, but the less than 5 minutes to Samford Rd would be easy.

[dwb]

We've talked about this, but I'd prefer a 374 buzz to MacGregor Tce, using a new left slip left turn about from MacGregor to Simpsons to reverse the route. The rest of the 375 route on the Bardon side has not too bad frequency already for the land use there.

I'd also then vote for the CityGlider-fication (rather than buzz) for 109+66.

[somebody]

Why would extending the service mean you would have to eliminate it as an all stops service?

Oh yeah I meant to explain that one... Its because the City-Mitchelton run is slow enough as it is.

But you are free to change at Mitchelton if you like.  I would think that would only make sense if you are heading to the Valley or somewhere else north of the city.  That's not a real reason to eliminate the all stops service IMO.

Besides, if you are heading to Roma St, the train and the bus are about the same speed.  The annoying part about it is the need to use the lower Roma St portal, which is slow no matter what way you cut it.

[somebody]

A simple solution to this would be to perma-route 350 along Beckett Rd, left on A-C Rd and continue to Albany Village and extend the 345 to do the Pinnaroo loop.

Wasn't that what I said?

195, 196, 197 should be made BUZ to compliment the 199.

195?  That only operates in peak!  Shouldn't they can the 197?  I'm assuming you meant something else here.

We've talked about this, but I'd prefer a 374 buzz to MacGregor Tce, using a new left slip left turn about from MacGregor to Simpsons to reverse the route. The rest of the 375 route on the Bardon side has not too bad frequency already for the land use there.

Anything that helps the 374 alleviate loads on other routes is a good thing.

I still think having the 390 continue down Samford Rd is something that should be looked at. Not just for Upper Kedrons sake, but for suburbs inbetween. I live in Keperra and usually end up driving to FG station because its the same distance away as Keperra and I don't fancy a 20 minute walk to the station, but the less than 5 minutes to Samford Rd would be easy.

Better than terminating at Brookside, but I think there are better places to extend the 390 to.  If you went to Samford Rd, are you going to remove the Brookside shops service?  If you don't, it needs to double back on itself.  I prefer it being combined with either the 396, 397, or 398.  In fact, it could become 2 routes, with half of the current 390 extending to one of those routes, and the other half extending to the other.  Doing all 3 would be nice, but it may need to run every 10 minutes to have a semi reasonable frequency there.

If Upper Kedron had a better service, then there would be less reason for what you suggested.

[#Metro]

We've talked about this, but I'd prefer a 374 buzz to MacGregor Tce, using a new left slip left turn about from MacGregor to Simpsons to reverse the route. The rest of the 375 route on the Bardon side has not too bad frequency already for the land use there.

OK, this could get complicated. I can't see these routes and I'm not familiar with the street names...

[somebody]

Hold on a minute.  I didn't notice the 374 BUZ!!  WTF?  If you are buzzing the 374, why wouldn't you continue all the way to Bardon?

[O_128]

The 412 is always packed and needs to be Buzzed for people living in st lucia/toowong/milton etc

[somebody]

The 412 is always packed and needs to be Buzzed for people living in st lucia/toowong/milton etc

I think one of the main things holding this back is the "Must service the Cultural Centre" sacred cow.

It also needs a better city stop location.  Should run to the Wichkam Tce terminus, really, like just about every other Adelaide St service which doesn't go to the Valley.

[ButFli]

195, 196, 197 should be made BUZ to compliment the 199.

195?  That only operates in peak!  Shouldn't they can the 197?  I'm assuming you meant something else here.

I meant combine all three routes into one new BUZ route to complement the 199. 196 and 197 are almost identical anyway and the 195 is just a duplication of the City-New Farm part of them. Much better to make a single BUZ out of them all that instead of zig zagging its way through New Farm would shoot all the way down Brunswick St, follow the river around Oxlade Dr and Moray St before rejoining Brunswick St to head back into the City (and continue on the current 196/197 route to Fairfield).

During peak there is already ~5 minute frequency split between 195/196/197 and offpeak a clock-face 15 minute frequency between 196/197. Surely it would be better to combine them all into one 5 minute peak, 10 minute offpeak BUZ service. BCC and/or Translink should change the CityGlider to the current 199 route and use the buses currently on the 199 for my new 19(5/6/7) BUZ service.

[#Metro]

During peak there is already ~5 minute frequency split between 195/196/197 and offpeak a clock-face 15 minute frequency between 196/197. Surely it would be better to combine them all into one 5 minute peak, 10 minute offpeak BUZ service. BCC and/or Translink should change the CityGlider to the current 199 route and use the buses currently on the 199 for my new 19(5/6/7) BUZ service.

This is a good idea. I like it.
195 used to run to West End. Its there to relieve load on 199.

[somebody]

I meant combine all three routes into one new BUZ route to complement the 199. 196 and 197 are almost identical anyway and the 195 is just a duplication of the City-New Farm part of them. Much better to make a single BUZ out of them all that instead of zig zagging its way through New Farm would shoot all the way down Brunswick St, follow the river around Oxlade Dr and Moray St before rejoining Brunswick St to head back into the City (and continue on the current 196/197 route to Fairfield).

Interesting proposal.  One of this revamped 196 (I'll call it) and the 199 should use Ivory St full time.  I still favour the 199, as it's the busier run, so pushing some pax back to this new 196 wouldn't be a bad thing.  And it is traditional to have the busier runs take the faster routes.

I think you should extend back to Brunswick St to allow interchange options for people at the city end of Moray St, rather than completely destroying their service.

BTW, I'm pretty sure the weekend frequency of the 196 drops back to half hourly.  195 and 197 don't run.

[dwb]

Hold on a minute.  I didn't notice the 374 BUZ!!  WTF?  If you are buzzing the 374, why wouldn't you continue all the way to Bardon?

I'm confused, haven't you previously indicated that you think it would be a waste of resources to run the fictional 109+66 combo past Roma st just to RCH??

The extra 15-20min it would take to run the Bardon (Macgregor Tce) to Bardon terminus and back would make the route a lot less efficient. There was a reason they only ever took the 374 to the roundabout at Paddington! Plus all you'd probably do by running it out in Bardon is upset the pensioners and/or young families.

I'm not highly against the idea, but i think resources could be used better than a BUZ to Bardon terminus, especially when other routes in Bardon like the 475 are so infrequent.

Paddington is a different kettle of fish altogether though. It has significant land use drivers for peak, contra-peak flow AND offpeak travel. The Bardon component doesn't - it has almost entirely peak load impacts only.

Currently the 374 shuttle (ie peak direction only) is currently a completely wasted resource. All I'm saying is it could be doing half the job of the 385 and extremely profitably with minor changes to its current route.

[ButFli]

I meant combine all three routes into one new BUZ route to complement the 199. 196 and 197 are almost identical anyway and the 195 is just a duplication of the City-New Farm part of them. Much better to make a single BUZ out of them all that instead of zig zagging its way through New Farm would shoot all the way down Brunswick St, follow the river around Oxlade Dr and Moray St before rejoining Brunswick St to head back into the City (and continue on the current 196/197 route to Fairfield).

I think you should extend back to Brunswick St to allow interchange options for people at the city end of Moray St, rather than completely destroying their service.

BTW, I'm pretty sure the weekend frequency of the 196 drops back to half hourly.  195 and 197 don't run.

1) That's what I meant. Do a big loop that takes in the outer parts of the 196/197 route but without the zig-zagging back and forth. Travel on the loop count as neither inbound nor outbound (or both depending on how you look at it.)

2) Even more reason to make it a BUZ. Half hour frequency in daylight hours so close to the city is a joke!

[somebody]

Hold on a minute.  I didn't notice the 374 BUZ!!  WTF?  If you are buzzing the 374, why wouldn't you continue all the way to Bardon?

I'm confused, haven't you previously indicated that you think it would be a waste of resources to run the fictional 109+66 combo past Roma st just to RCH??

There only needs to be one full time service to Bardon along Caxton St.  There's little point only going part of the way for a full time service IMO.  Chopping the 375 in two and putting the Bardon side in KGSBS is one option.

[dwb]

There only needs to be one full time service to Bardon along Caxton St.  There's little point only going part of the way for a full time service IMO.  Chopping the 375 in two and putting the Bardon side in KGSBS is one option.

No. We're talking about BUZing here, and BUZes don't exist without any other fulltime services because they are limited stops services. THis is the case in ALL corridors.

You *could* BUZ the 375, but you'd have to stop servicing all the inbetween stops, so *you'd also have* to turn the 374 shuttle into a fulltime all stops service. I think it would be better simply BUZing the 374 and routing it via INB (Roma St + KGS).  This suits the land use and it suits passengers behaviours that exist today and would improve several routes at very little expense.

[stephenk]

Better than terminating at Brookside, but I think there are better places to extend the 390 to.  If you went to Samford Rd, are you going to remove the Brookside shops service?  If you don't, it needs to double back on itself.  I prefer it being combined with either the 396, 397, or 398.  In fact, it could become 2 routes, with half of the current 390 extending to one of those routes, and the other half extending to the other.  Doing all 3 would be nice, but it may need to run every 10 minutes to have a semi reasonable frequency there.

If Upper Kedron had a better service, then there would be less reason for what you suggested.

Whilst I'm in favour of considering extending the 390, it is essential that it still serves Brookside, as the shopping centre is a major traffic generator for the NE of Brisbane and in particular the 390 route. Maybe Arana Hills would be a good alternative terminus?

[somebody]

Better than terminating at Brookside, but I think there are better places to extend the 390 to.  If you went to Samford Rd, are you going to remove the Brookside shops service?  If you don't, it needs to double back on itself.  I prefer it being combined with either the 396, 397, or 398.  In fact, it could become 2 routes, with half of the current 390 extending to one of those routes, and the other half extending to the other.  Doing all 3 would be nice, but it may need to run every 10 minutes to have a semi reasonable frequency there.

If Upper Kedron had a better service, then there would be less reason for what you suggested.

Whilst I'm in favour of considering extending the 390, it is essential that it still serves Brookside, as the shopping centre is a major traffic generator for the NE of Brisbane and in particular the 390 route. Maybe Arana Hills would be a good alternative terminus?

I agree with this.  But you could also have two of the 39x routes combined with the 390, each on a 30 minute frequency and co-ordinated.

There only needs to be one full time service to Bardon along Caxton St.  There's little point only going part of the way for a full time service IMO.  Chopping the 375 in two and putting the Bardon side in KGSBS is one option.

No. We're talking about BUZing here, and BUZes don't exist without any other fulltime services because they are limited stops services. THis is the case in ALL corridors.

You *could* BUZ the 375, but you'd have to stop servicing all the inbetween stops, so *you'd also have* to turn the 374 shuttle into a fulltime all stops service. I think it would be better simply BUZing the 374 and routing it via INB (Roma St + KGS).  This suits the land use and it suits passengers behaviours that exist today and would improve several routes at very little expense.

You are ignoring the 199, an all stops BUZ.

Also, the all stops alternatives for the 444 are laughable.  433 and 445 both hourly and not co-ordinated, and only on part of the route.  Also the 445 doesn't run on Sunday.

The 111 can be considered an all stops BUZ too.  Not too sure if there are all stops options for the 130/140/150.

[Golliwog]

Better than terminating at Brookside, but I think there are better places to extend the 390 to.  If you went to Samford Rd, are you going to remove the Brookside shops service?  If you don't, it needs to double back on itself.  I prefer it being combined with either the 396, 397, or 398.  In fact, it could become 2 routes, with half of the current 390 extending to one of those routes, and the other half extending to the other.  Doing all 3 would be nice, but it may need to run every 10 minutes to have a semi reasonable frequency there.

If Upper Kedron had a better service, then there would be less reason for what you suggested.

Whilst I'm in favour of considering extending the 390, it is essential that it still serves Brookside, as the shopping centre is a major traffic generator for the NE of Brisbane and in particular the 390 route. Maybe Arana Hills would be a good alternative terminus?

Didn't some of the 390's used to start/continue past Brookside to what now became the 396 route? Couldn't that be redone but permanently, and then the 396 route could be changed to run along Samford Rd outbound from Brookside to Upper Kedron, to supplement the 362. The section of the 398 that currently goes along Samford Rd from Blackwood St to Dawson Pde, could then be rerouted off Samford road to expand the service area by running a bus through the side streets near Oxford Park station.

[stephenk]

Better than terminating at Brookside, but I think there are better places to extend the 390 to.  If you went to Samford Rd, are you going to remove the Brookside shops service?  If you don't, it needs to double back on itself.  I prefer it being combined with either the 396, 397, or 398.  In fact, it could become 2 routes, with half of the current 390 extending to one of those routes, and the other half extending to the other.  Doing all 3 would be nice, but it may need to run every 10 minutes to have a semi reasonable frequency there.

If Upper Kedron had a better service, then there would be less reason for what you suggested.

Whilst I'm in favour of considering extending the 390, it is essential that it still serves Brookside, as the shopping centre is a major traffic generator for the NE of Brisbane and in particular the 390 route. Maybe Arana Hills would be a good alternative terminus?

Didn't some of the 390's used to start/continue past Brookside to what now became the 396 route? Couldn't that be redone but permanently, and then the 396 route could be changed to run along Samford Rd outbound from Brookside to Upper Kedron, to supplement the 362. The section of the 398 that currently goes along Samford Rd from Blackwood St to Dawson Pde, could then be rerouted off Samford road to expand the service area by running a bus through the side streets near Oxford Park station.

Some interesting ideas here. I don't know how suitable the side roads between Mitchelton and Dawson Parade are for buses, although rail replacement buses must travel along this route. I wouldn't be adverse to a 15min core route from the CBD to Brookside and then splitting at Dawson Parade, one route along Samford Rd to Upper Kedron, and another to Arana Hills, along Patricks Rd and Ferny Way to Ferny Grove. Reliability must be maintained though on what would become long routes. The current frequency of the 367 and 398 are not conductive to attracting people to PT, and make the Sunday bus service in Canberra look good!  

Rail feeder buses (meeting every off-peak train) served by more economical midibuses could be another solution for these poorly served areas which are only a few km from a rail line. Sorry for heading off-topic.

[Golliwog]

I know the 361 does a little bit of the side streets around there. Looking at a map of it, most of the area is a roughish grid, although theres an issue as some of the grids don't fully connect (ie: Rolleston St) but theres still a few through routes through there. As the area is fairly old, most of the streets are pretty wide so there shouldn't be too many issues with buses struggling to fit.

Rail feeder buses (meeting every off-peak train) served by more economical midibuses could be another solution for these poorly served areas which are only a few km from a rail line. Sorry for heading off-topic.

Eh, its not like many threads on here stay fully on topic anyway . And those midibuses are a good point.

[somebody]

The problem with midibuses in the off peak, is that what do they do in the peak?

Anyway, why are you suggesting just the 362 and 398?  Those routes need to double back from Brookside.  The 396 & 397 don't, although the 396 only runs in peak.

[ozbob]

The problem with midibuses in the off peak, is that what do they do in the peak?

Station buses?