RAIL - Back On Track Forum

https://www.yoursay-projects.tmr.qld.gov.au/logan-bus-changes

https://www.yoursay-projects.tmr.qld.gov.au/logan-bus-changes

Overview

When Brisbane Metro starts, it will run high-frequency services from Eight Mile Plains to Brisbane City. As a result, some existing services will double-up with the new Brisbane Metro and other city express services. TMR is proposing to change or remove some of these services and reinvest the feed-up buses to improve other Logan routes.

The proposed changes would provide more local services and better connectivity for the Logan region. Your feedback on proposed changes will help TMR deliver public transport which meets the growing needs of the Logan region.

About the proposed changes

TMR is proposing changes to routes P569, 545, 554, 565, 566, 570, 571, 576, 577, 578 and 579 when Brisbane Metro commences.

These changes include removing 4 Logan to Brisbane routes which duplicate Brisbane Metro services, freeing up buses to:

. provide more local services on routes 565, 570, 576 and 578 (total of 136 extra trips per week)

. add 12 City peak services per day on route P569 resulting in a total of 16 trips in the morning and 14 in the afternoon (total of 60 extra trips per week)

. extend routes 545, 554, 576 and 578 to Griffith University station providing more connections to the busway and high-frequency Brisbane Metro services

. expand routes 570 and 578 to run 7 days a week including public holidays

. run route 545 along the Rochedale busway extension to avoid traffic delays along Logan Road

. run route 565 along Clarks and Drews roads to provide all-day services 7 days a week to this area.

More > https://www.yoursay-projects.tmr.qld.gov.au/logan-bus-changes

tldr of changes: remove most of the peak only routes, run more service on their pair routes, and extend to Griffith Uni if previously terminating at Mt Gravatt.

- re-route & extend 545 via busway Rochedale - Griffith Uni
- extend 554 to Griffith Uni
- remove 566 (peak version of 565) and run more 565s (but use the 566 & 563 routing along Clark & Drews Rd)
- more services on P569
- delete 571, run more 570s
- delete 577, extend 576 to Griffith Uni, run more 576s.

In the case of the 570 the forced transfer is to a P569 or 555 rather than an M1, for the rest of them the transfer could be to an M1.

The thing with Griffith University is that the plans are to close the Mount Gravatt campus and move the courses taught there to Nathan - so basically, Nathan will be in the longer term a more critical location than the current Busway station location.

For myself, I'd boost the trunk routes to a high frequency (at least every 15mins) on routes 545, 550, 560, and redesign route 562 and 563 so they aren't as long and windy.  I'd also let Eagleby have it's own route between Loganholme and Beenleigh, which would then allow route 563 to be redesigned to give Bethania and Holmview pax a faster trip to Beenleigh/Loganholme.

With the removal of the peak hour routes, this would need to be done carefully.  I'm currently skeptical that the Metro will be able to take the loads from not only between 8MP and the city, but also take the loads from outside Logan, which for some routes can be quite heavily loaded already, so if the Metro ends up chockers from Garden City in, we're in a bit of strife further down the line into the city.

Quote from: aldonius on July 22, 2024, 13:05:49 PMIn the case of the 570 the forced transfer is to a P569 or 555 rather than an M1, for the rest of them the transfer could be to an M1.

The 565 forced transfer will also be to a 569 or 555.

I've only skimmed this so far, but I do have some concerns regarding capacity at Loganholme in morning peak, and disappointment that the daytime 60 minute frequencies on these routes don't appear to be addressed.

I'll look at it closer when I get time to.

Quote from: nathandavid88 on July 22, 2024, 13:34:39 PM

Quote from: aldonius on July 22, 2024, 13:05:49 PMIn the case of the 570 the forced transfer is to a P569 or 555 rather than an M1, for the rest of them the transfer could be to an M1.

The 565 forced transfer will also be to a 569 or 555.

I've only skimmed this so far, but I do have some concerns regarding capacity at Loganholme in morning peak, and disappointment that the daytime 60 minute frequencies on these routes don't appear to be addressed.

I'll look at it closer when I get time to.

I think it's been quite misunderstood by many people here at RBOT over the years, but also from a planning perspective, that those peak hour city routes are there to spread the load and not compromise those living further towards the city, the 566 is to service Windaroo residents with the bonus of capturing those boarding at Loganholme heading into the city for work, if that bus gets full out of Loganholme, then it's done it's job, which from my ancedotial experience from catching the peak hour Redlands services over many years, depending on the time of day and route, you'd end up dropping up/picking up somewhere around a 1/4 load (roughly), with the rest getting on/off further along the route in the suburbs that that peak hour route is routed through before it runs express to the city.

Post COVID, the buses obviously hasn't been that heavily loaded, but it will be interesting to see how that changes in a couple of weeks.

Quote from: STB on July 22, 2024, 13:41:36 PMthose peak hour city routes are there to spread the load and not compromise those living further towards the city,

And in outbound peak, to reserve some capacity for those going to more far-flung places.

We should think of the Cleveland expresses in much the same way, right?

Quote from: STB on July 22, 2024, 13:41:36 PMPost COVID, the buses obviously hasn't been that heavily loaded, but it will be interesting to see how that changes in a couple of weeks.

Oh, the buses can be very heavily loaded these days. I've been travelling from Loganholme into the City more or less every weekday since 2017. I usually arrive at the station at approx 7:10-7:15am, so right in the thick of it.

The 566, 569 and 571 are supposed to be spaced so that from about 6:45am through to after 8am, one express service leaves from Loganholme Stop D roughly every 5 minutes. When this frequency is maintained, it works quite well. But in post COVID times, it is very rare for this to happen due to the constant staffing issues at Clarks. Every morning on their Facebook page you will get posts like these.



These dropped services break that 5 minute 566/569/571 spacing, sometimes blowing it out to almost a 15 minute wait between services (sometimes taking out the overlapping 7:07 & 7:15am 555 as well). When this happens, it is very common to see the line up of people waiting at Stop D extend halfway up the entire length of the station (on a really bad morning, closer to 2/3 - 3/4 the station). When that next service arrives, it will fill like a sardine tin, usually with a fair number of people opting to wait even longer for the next service. On the worst mornings, Dad and I end up taking a 573 which, although slower, ends up being a better option than being in a line 3 bus loads long.

My frequency concern in my earlier post is based on whether the increased 569 frequency will match the status quo of a service leaving Stop D every 5 minutes. I'm not against consolidating the 3 services into 1, it makes perfect sense really, but if it leads to a drop in frequency from Loganholme, I have real concerns about overcrowding occurring. 

This really should be viewed in its proper context - this is a suite of changes deliberately intended to support / reduce duplication with Brisbane Metro.

I understand there are separate improvements coming.  This all looks very revenue neutral for now.

Conceptually I don't have a problem with any of this other than that I would have thought all peak hour route other than the 569 and 581 could be cancelled and the resources reinvested into better local services, ie no more 551, 561, 573 and 575.  The equivalent all day routes feed into rail at Loganlea, Kingston or Woodridge, and connect to Loganholme, Springwood or 8MP / UMG / GU Mt Gravatt.  Maybe this will be dealt with later when there is more funding.

Longer run I'd like to see something similar for the Redlands so all the far flung peak hour routes are removed, as far as is practicable, and better all day services feed into the Cleveland line, Capalaba (a future Brisbane Metro terminus) and 8MP / UMG / GU Mt Gravatt.  The regular services for most of the Redlands are worse than in Logan.  Also need to fix the ridiculous situation where the 262 does not run on public holidays, presumably because Mt Gravatt's industrial arrangements mean they cannot find anybody and/or cannot require them to work except on weekdays.

(The 570 span of hours is an embarrassment.)

Further to the my previous comment, reading more into the 569 changes the Consultation Sheet states that the 569 will receive 12 extra trips each weekday - the 569 currently has 10 inbound trips in the am and 8 in the pm, so if we split the 12 extra trips in half, that would give us 16 inbound and 14 outbound.

Currently, the 566,569 & 571 together total 21 inbound trips and 18 outbound trips. That inbound reduction in particular does concern me a bit. I would want to see the exact timetable spacing to see how it will work - "15 minutes or better" does not fill me with confidence seeing what 15 minute frequency gaps result in currently.

I'm happy to reduce duplication with the Brisbane Metro, and I'd be happy to interchange at 8MP to the Metro 1, but it's the service to the stretch beyond that which concerns me, as a heavy user of this section.   

Quote from: STB on July 22, 2024, 13:24:42 PMThe thing with Griffith University is that the plans are to close the Mount Gravatt campus and move the courses taught there to Nathan - so basically, Nathan will be in the longer term a more critical location than the current Busway station location.

I think the extension to GUBS is more for interchange purposes than being able to directly access the campus. Nearly all the Mains Rd routes diverge from the busway here, so it helps to prevent double interchange in a short time (e.g. taking 545 to Garden City interchange, then an M1 to GUBS, then a 130/140 to wherever.

Overall, the changes aren't too bad, but I'm disappointed there's no increase to frequency, particularly on 545 and 560. Weekend frequencies, in particular, still suck. Almost every Logan bus runs hourly on weekends, with the 555 being the main exception.

Clarks need many more artics.  We should be able to provision all 555 services and the majority of 569 trips with them.  Even 10 more would be a start.

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Quote from: STB on July 22, 2024, 13:24:42 PMThe thing with Griffith University is that the plans are to close the Mount Gravatt campus and move the courses taught there to Nathan - so basically, Nathan will be in the longer term a more critical location than the current Busway station location.

Quote from: achiruel on July 22, 2024, 19:50:14 PMI think the extension to GUBS is more for interchange purposes than being able to directly access the campus. Nearly all the Mains Rd routes diverge from the busway here, so it helps to prevent double interchange in a short time (e.g. taking 545 to Garden City interchange, then an M1 to GUBS, then a 130/140 to wherever.

The main reason I see for the extension to Griffith is to utilise the bus layover facility currently under construction there. Using a busway-connected facility like this is probably quicker and easier than dealing with the Macgregor Street entry/exit and the Garden City Interchange. In fact, they might be trying to limit services using that Macgregor Street connection, as if Macgregor Street is congested it can cause a line up of buses on the busway wanting to turn off there too.

Quote from: achiruel on July 22, 2024, 19:50:14 PMOverall, the changes aren't too bad, but I'm disappointed there's no increase to frequency, particularly on 545 and 560. Weekend frequencies, in particular, still suck. Almost every Logan bus runs hourly on weekends, with the 555 being the main exception.

A lot of the routes covered in these changes (554, 565, 570, 576 & 578) run hourly offpeak during weekdays too.

The Translink PR team were at Loganholme this morning, and the guy I spoke to said that the feedback they were after was regarding how to best use the resources saved through these changes. To me, this implied potential frequency increases, which is what I would be pushing for.

I'm doing a bit of a deep dive into the AM peak implications of losing the 566 and 571, but gaining the extra 569s, and I think I've worked out the pattern. Below is the current AM peak departure board for Loganholme Stop D, with the lost 566 and 571 routes struck out.

Depart    Route   
6:04 am  P569
6:19 am  P569
6:34 am  571
6:37 am  566
6:47 am  P569
6:55 am  571
6:59 am  566
7:04 am  P569
7:10 am  P569
7:15 am  571
7:20 am  566
7:25 am  P569
7:30 am  566
7:35 am  571
7:40 am  P569
7:45 am  P569
7:50 am  566
7:55 am  571
8:02 am  P569
8:05 am  566
8:20 am  P569

All but one of the struck out routes form pairs (the last 566 being the odd one out), and there are 6 sets of struck out routes - this matches the assumed 6 new 569 services, so they are effectively plugging the mostly 2 bus gaps with a new 569 service.

The majority of these are a 15 minute gap between services, so dropping a bus in the middle of that gap would result in a ~7.5 minute gap at mid peak compared to the 5 minute gaps we get currently. (I imagine that the overall timetable will be ironed out to remove the alternating 5 min/7.5min gaps). While it is a reduction in frequency, I don't think it will be as major an issue as I had originally feared.

Sounds good to me. The services being cut are neither popular enough nor frequent enough to justify their existence. They never did keep the "express to my door" crowd, and TL has subsequently introduced stuff like the 569 and 581 instead of trying to make them more attractive.

However it does seem like these changes are being made in a vacuum. That's fine if they'll come back to it - but I'm sure BCC's planners said that every time they made tweaks as well! As an example, the 553 should probably take over the faster Loganholme-Beenleigh run, and the whole relationship between the 555 and 569/581 needs to be looked at.

Quote from: SurfRail on July 22, 2024, 15:42:44 PMConceptually I don't have a problem with any of this other than that I would have thought all peak hour route other than the 569 and 581 could be cancelled and the resources reinvested into better local services, ie no more 551, 561, 573 and 575.  The equivalent all day routes feed into rail at Loganlea, Kingston or Woodridge, and connect to Loganholme, Springwood or 8MP / UMG / GU Mt Gravatt.  Maybe this will be dealt with later when there is more funding.

I don't disagree but yes, it's probably that cutting these in a 'cost neutral' way will genuinely make trips longer (and/or annoy more people). What would really be transformative is for the 550/560/572 to provide a good service all day every day - redistributing peak capacity won't help with that

I can't explain keeping the 575 though, that route sucks.

MyCityLogan --> Bus boost: 190 more rides

QuoteThe City of Logan's bus network is set for a revamp that would add 190 trips weekly if approved.

Experts say it's a "step in the right direction" following new data showing only one in 20 local residents have access to quality public transport.

The proposed changes would impact 11 routes across Logan so that the local network aligns with the Brisbane Metro services.

Certain bus routes will be cut to avoid duplication with the new "turn-up-and-go" Metro services, but 190 trips will be added.

Four existing routes will be extended to connect with Griffith University.

Earlier this month, MyCity Logan reported a new Climate Council study found Logan suburbs have the worst public transport of any capital city region in the country ...

Bob can you find out why they don't have just an email address for feedback on this?
The 300 word limit on the survey is very limiting!

^^ Good old Government feedback - limited and often very leading.

Quote from: Gazza on July 30, 2024, 10:01:44 AMBob can you find out why they don't have just an email address for feedback on this?
The 300 word limit on the survey is very limiting!

I have been in touch with Translink.  If anyone wants to submit more than what the online form allows you can forward your submission to me at admin@backontrack.org and I will forward to Translink for you.

Government Statement

https://statements.qld.gov.au/statements/101482

Doing What Matters: Major Logan bus network investment targets growth hotspots

26th September 2024

. A series of upgrades to the Logan bus network will begin launching from December 2024.

. Improvements are part of the Miles Government's $70 million program to improve bus services.

. Investment in growing the bus network will improve access to jobs, healthcare and education.

A series of new and improved Logan bus services will begin rolling out from December this year as part of an investment program by the Miles Government, unlocking growth and improving community connections.

The upgrades to the Logan bus network will be rolled out over two stages and have been planned to reduce congestion and increase community access to jobs, healthcare and education.

The investment is part of the Miles Government's $70 million commitment to improve bus services in Logan and Ipswich to support our growing state. The program also includes ongoing funding of more than $24 million per year.

The announcement comes off the back of Premier Steven Miles' announcement that the Miles Government will extend the 50 cent fare trial if elected in October.

50 cent fares has been a massive success among Queensland public transport users, and this uplift will ensure more affordable, convenient travel for Logan locals.

Stage 1 will include the construction of 17 bus stops and improve access to the public transport network for around 47,000 Logan residents who will be able to tap onto 50 cent public transport fares.

Stage 1 service improvements will be delivered over this financial year and will include:

Route 534 – More services result in improved service frequencies, increased hours of operation, and improved on time running between the key activity centres of Springfield and Browns Plains.
 
Route 540 – Implementation of weekend services for the first time, providing weekend access for Beaudesert, Jimboomba and new estates along the Mount Lindesay Highway.

Route 587– Extension to recently built areas of Yarrabilba, supported by the construction of two new bus stops, Sunday services for the first time and more services on weekdays and Saturdays.
 
Route 541 – Extension of this route to service Park Ridge and Greenbank communities in the Harvest Rise Estate and at Andrew Road. The route extension will be supported by the construction of three new bus stops, and more services on weekday and Sunday mornings.
 
Route 547 – Realigned to travel through the Berrinba residential and industrial estates, providing convenient access to the broader public transport network. Eight new bus stops will be constructed to support services to the suburb of Berrinba for the first time.
 
Route 535 – Funded by Translink and Economic Development Queensland, route 535 to Flagstone will see increased frequencies on weekdays and Saturday's, and Sunday services for the first time.

Planning is continuing for upgrades as part of Stage 2, which are set for delivery from early 2026, and will introduce easy access to public transport services for approximately 25,500 Logan residents for the first time.

Whilst Stage 2 is still in the planning phase, it is proposed to include:

Three new routes to service fast growing residential areas of Logan Reserve, Bahrs Scrub and Park Ridge, linking:

Browns Plains to Loganlea via Park Ridge Road
Logan Village to Loganlea via Chambers Flat Road
Holmview to Beenleigh via Bahrs Scrub

On Demand Transport for Yarrabilba benefiting around 12,400 residents by enabling them to connect to community services within the suburb, as well as to Route 587.

Improved service frequencies in Park Ridge, and on east-west corridors between Springwood, Loganholme, Woodridge, Loganlea and Browns Plains.

Full details of the changes and all timetable information will be available on the Translink website closer to implementation.

More --> https://statements.qld.gov.au/statements/101482

QuoteRoute 540 – Implementation of weekend services for the first time, providing weekend access for Beaudesert, Jimboomba and new estates along the Mount Lindesay Highway.

That's our end of year trip sorted Bob.

Quote from: ozbob on September 26, 2024, 13:04:19 PMRoute 547 – Realigned to travel through the Berrinba residential and industrial estates, providing convenient access to the broader public transport network. Eight new bus stops will be constructed to support services to the suburb of Berrinba for the first time.

I don't want to claim sole responsibility for it it anything, but this was definitely a suggestion I made to Translink back in December 2023. Good to see the improvement finally being made!

So are you saying it will likley remain south of the motorway for longer, via Anderson St,  then Second Avenue, Bardon Rd?

Quote from: Gazza on September 26, 2024, 17:09:12 PMSo are you saying it will likley remain south of the motorway for longer, via Anderson St,  then Second Avenue, Bardon Rd?

Can't be certain, as I haven't seen a final map, tbh my suggestion was more related to serving the industrial area.

Sent to all outlets:

Ipswich and Logan bus services gain service improvements

27th September 2024

The Minister for Transport The Honourable Bart Mellish has recently announced improved bus services for Ipswich and Logan:

Doing What Matters: Ipswich set for major public transport boost
https://statements.qld.gov.au/statements/101481 26 September 2024

". A three-year, three-stage bus improvement package will bring new services to the growth areas of Redbank Plains, Collingwood Park, Augustine Heights and Bellbird Park, as well as Springfield, Deebing Heights and Karalee.
. The package will improve connections with train services and Ipswich Hospital, and connections between Browns Plains and Springfield.
. It will also increase the span of hours on services across the city. ... "

Doing What Matters: Major Logan bus network investment targets growth hotspots
https://statements.qld.gov.au/statements/101482 26 September 2024

". A series of upgrades to the Logan bus network will begin launching from December 2024.
. Improvements are part of the Miles Government's $70 million program to improve bus services.
. Investment in growing the bus network will improve access to jobs, healthcare and education. ... "

Refer to the Minister's statements for the full details.

RAIL Back On Track welcomes the confirmation of improved bus services for Logan and Ipswich.  Many of these improvements have long been supported and advocated for by the respective Councils and RAIL Back On Track. We also acknowledge the support of local Members of Parliament in securing these improvements.

Thank you.

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

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https://x.com/railbotforum/status/1839329686658420804

Improvements to Logan West, Flagstone and Beaudesert bus services are set to roll out on December 16:

Get ready to ride - Logan West, Flagstone, Beaudesert and Springfield

Last reviewed: Monday 18 Nov 2024 at 8.00am

From Monday 16 December, we're improving some bus services in parts of Logan West, Springfield, Beaudesert and Flagstone.

This includes changes for routes 534, 535, 540, 542, 551, 561 and 587.

With 350 new bus trips being introduced to your network you'll have more frequent services, along with:

• longer operating hours
• new weekend services
• more accurate and reliable timetables
• new stops and extended routes.

There'll be minor timetable changes for all of these routes, so plan your journey to see if the changes affect your travel.

534 - Browns Plains to Orion Springfield Central

• 170 new trips each week
• Increased weekday frequency with buses every 30 minutes
• Extended operating hours on weekdays - with trips from 5:30am - 9pm

535 - Flagstone to Browns Plains

• 120 new trips each week
• Increased frequency with buses every 30 minutes during weekday peak times, and every hour all other times (including weekends)
• New Sunday services, so buses run seven days a week
• Extended weekday peak periods - from 5:30-8:30am and 2:30-6:30pm

540 - Beaudesert to Browns Plains

• 70 new trips each week
• New weekend services, so buses run seven days a week
• Increased frequency with buses running every hour
• Extended operating hours on weekdays - with trips from 5am - 8pm

542 - Browns Plains to Park Ridge

• Minor timetable changes to improve accuracy and reliability

551 - Crestmead to Brisbane City

• Route extended with two new bus stops on Bumstead Road at Ryrie Court in Crestmead.

561 - Crestmead to Brisbane City

• Route extended with two new bus stops on Bumstead Road at Ryrie Court in Crestmead.

587 - Yarrabilba to Loganlea

• 110 new trips each week
• New Sunday services, so buses run seven days a week
• Increased weekday frequency to 30 minutes peak and 1 hour off peak and weekends
• Route extended to new areas in Yarrabilba and Logan Village with six new bus stops:
• South Rock State School, Yarrabilba
• Waterford Tamborine Road at Pioneer Drive, Logan Village
• Waterford Tamborine Road at Hotz Road, Logan Village

These are just the first of many improvements to be delivered in your region over the next two years. So, stay tuned!

https://translink.com.au/updates/610491