RAIL - Back On Track Forum

Couriermail --> Brisbane Metro under threat amid war of words between Lord Mayor Adrian Schrinner, Transport Minister Bart Mellish $

QuoteAfter eight years of planning, and a cost blowout from $944 million to $1.7 billion, the Brisbane Metro project could be delayed until 2025 because of a war of words that has erupted over a funding agreement. Here's why

A public transport funding stoush could delay the Brisbane Metro by up to a year.

The standoff between Brisbane City Council and the state government threatens to delay the project into 2025.

The Metro services cannot start running until the council and government renegotiate the agreement which dictates how they share the funding needed for Brisbane buses.

Residents have already waited eight years since the Brisbane Metro concept was first announced and seen the project's cost blow out from $944m to $1.7bn.

Lord Mayor Adrian Schrinner said completion of the Brisbane Metro project was at risk if the council and government could not reach a new deal on the funding split. ...

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https://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/qld-politics/brisbane-metro-under-threat-amid-war-of-words-between-lord-mayor-adrian-schrinner-transport-minister-bart-mellish/news-story/e9b3cd8fe66892bcacfb8b110e021eb9

Quote... A Department of Transport and Main Roads spokesman said TMR and the Brisbane City Council (BCC) were working to a proposed schedule to sign contracts well before Metro is due to operate and have established a Bus and Metro Service Contracts Working Group with representatives from BCC and TMR.

"Negotiations have already commenced on the new service contracts. TMR sees no reason why these contracts would not be executed well before Metro officially opens," the spokesman said.

"TMR approval of the Brisbane Metro project in September 2020 was conditional on operating costs for the new Metro and BCC Bus network not exceeding the existing Queensland Government funding envelope. ...

'not exceeding the existing Queensland Government funding envelope'

The State Government has constrained Translink for years now with bus service improvements. The impacts are seen in all regions, some micro-drip feed improvements but the general state of the networks is poor.

https://x.com/ozbob13/status/1750535961598173341?s=20

https://x.com/ozbob13/status/1750539577574773043?s=20

Quote from: ozbob on January 26, 2024, 01:06:04 AMhttps://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/qld-politics/brisbane-metro-under-threat-amid-war-of-words-between-lord-mayor-adrian-schrinner-transport-minister-bart-mellish/news-story/e9b3cd8fe66892bcacfb8b110e021eb9

Quote... A Department of Transport and Main Roads spokesman said TMR and the Brisbane City Council (BCC) were working to a proposed schedule to sign contracts well before Metro is due to operate and have established a Bus and Metro Service Contracts Working Group with representatives from BCC and TMR.

"Negotiations have already commenced on the new service contracts. TMR sees no reason why these contracts would not be executed well before Metro officially opens," the spokesman said.

"TMR approval of the Brisbane Metro project in September 2020 was conditional on operating costs for the new Metro and BCC Bus network not exceeding the existing Queensland Government funding envelope. ...

'not exceeding the existing Queensland Government funding envelope'

The State Government has constrained Translink for years now with bus service improvements. The impacts are seen in all regions, some micro-drip feed improvements but the general state of the networks is poor.

Gotta make sure that motorway funding keeps flowing, though!

To be fair, why does Metro need additional operational funding?

The service substitutes bus services that will be made redundant, and the larger vehicle size means driver productivity increases.

The only case as to why there would need to be more operational funding is if BCC intended to keep most of the current bus network as is and just run Brisbane Metro over the top of the existing network structure.

Metro is a bus. It is swapping a bunch of many routes for just one or a few.

^ improve frequency of feeders.  New cross suburban routes.  Improve frequency generally.

This cap on funding for service improvements is really proving to be difficult now.

I think they will find that this an important issue in #qldvotes ( and to a lesser extent #bccvotes ).

ABC News --> Brisbane lord mayor, Queensland transport minister clash in city bus funding stoush

QuoteThe LNP-led Brisbane City Council says inadequate funding from the state Labor government has resulted in tens of thousands of fewer bus services operating in the city.

The government has already hit back at the suggestion, saying any reduction in services is a result of financial mismanagement on the part of City Hall.

New figures released by Lord Mayor Adrian Schrinner indicate there are now around 82,000 fewer services on the Brisbane bus fleet than there were a decade ago.

According to the council's numbers, Brisbane had 3.15 million regular bus services — excluding CityGlider buses — in 2012-'13, but this had gone backwards to 3.07 million by 2022-'23.

Mr Schrinner laid blame for the falling numbers on the state government as he called for them to put forward more funding. ...

Maybe modify the 24bph along Gympie road between 10-11pm... save some resources there. Maybe modify the network to be more efficient with less duplication? Ask he and quirk said there's nothing wrong with Brisbanes bus network.

Cut the budget by an amount equal to BCCs subsidy and let the State levy BCC properties directly.  Same as emergency services levies.  Same as the Seqwater bulk charge.  It's not that hard, seriously.

BCC already has the lowest rates in SEQ (Sunny Coast residents apparently already pay 50% more). Their self-stated goal is to continue to charge the lowest rates in SEQ... both of those videos are very much political spin but I think it's useful to consider that the council LNP's goal is essentially to extract as much money from the state government as possible.

The funding fight seems rather silly as rate payers in all SEQ councils pay for local roads (shock, horror!) and it makes sense that rate payers would also pay for some public transport too, especially if it reduces the need for expensive road widening projects. The Brisbane versus other councils transport budget issue does seem like an apples versus oranges issue, e.g. many of the other local councils utilise private companies for running their bus services as they're apparently not big enough to run one on their own whereas BCC has a public bus service.

I'm not going to say that there isn't some substance to the funding issue, but at the same time, it's a political football that really distracts from the budget priority issue: how much money is being invested into public transport.

The whole model would probably work fine if there was a distinction between the "base" network and what BCC is funding.

That doesn't necessarily mean different routes, just something definable. Council wants their levy to go toward late night service on X, Y and Z routes? Great! Want to create a bunch of useless rockets for their favourite suburbs? Also fine! But it's all additional to the base network. Not putting 25% funding in the bucket, holding up a big "joint effort" sign and then walking away with the bucket

Sometimes I think this is why BCC is so adamantly against bus reform - can't untangle what's been there for decades - but then wouldn't it be better for BCC, politically, to have this kind of arrangement? There's no question state funding of PT is inadequate, and if Council were able to itemise the improvements they've paid for it would make them look like saints. Yes even with all the waste!

It's what I keep coming back to - the State just needs to take over raising the revenue by imposing a levy, which would end up being revenue neutral for BCC's budget.  Eventually it would become pointless for BCC to even be the operator of the buses.

The thing though is we are not dealing with one city. Who decides what the "right" levy rate should be for each region?

That is a separate issue in my view.

Currently, only one LGA puts in any significant amount of money into buses to the point where it compromises the efficient administration, planning and even marketing of the SEQ network.  That is the City of Brisbane.  It is completely sui generis in that respect and only because of historical factors that are not relevant elsewhere.

The point is to take the critical funding off of BCC, and put them into the same position as say GCCC where they contribute additional funding for specific services (with those additional funds raised by GCCC).  They can propose as many RainbowGlider^TM services or free ferries as they want at this point because the BCC funding involved is marginal, not 1/3rd of the annual opex.

Kill this issue first, then worry about whether we need to roll this out to the other LGAs and to what extent. 

Even for the BCC case, who decides how high or how low the levy should be moving forward?

BCC contributes because they do not want the Translink "basics" package.

Or will you just lock it in at 4% because that is what it was historically?

The State?  Why is that such a problem? 

They already do this in other fields.  In SEQ, Queensland Urban Utilities, Unitywater, GCCC, RCC and LCC all set their own water and sewerage prices, but the largest component of the metered water charges is the bulk water charge which is set by the State and is the same for all of SEQ.  We also have emergency services levies which are set by the State and collected by LGAs through their rates notices (https://www.qfes.qld.gov.au/planning-and-compliance/em-levy).  I see no reason why TransLink should be treated differently.

We know what amount BCC is putting in now, so all that needs to happen is to maintain at least that amount to be raised by the State levy and for it to be divvied up between different properties on a transparent basis.  An owner-occupier of a detached house or unit should not be paying the same amount Scentre Group pays for Chermside, or Dexus pays for 1 Waterfront Place.

If anything, the State could probably collect less out of this than BCC tips in and still achieve a better result given how much waste there is in the system that BCC won't agree to fix.

If BCC want to not drop their rates by an equivalent amount raised by the State for the same purpose (and commit political seppuku) that is up to BCC.

Phase 1 is BCC.  Phase 2 is cutting deals with the less cantankerous LGAs with their own transport levies (eg GCCC) to phase those out and for the TransLink levy to be imposed.  Phase 3 is to widen it to other areas within TransLink's network. 

If any LGA wants more, they can pay more, but the point of this is to strip away the problem causing BCC to be intransigent and argumentative, which is their control of a substantial portion of what pays for Brisbane's buses.  It makes zero sense for this to come from any council.

Couriermail --> 50c fares could break Brisbane's fragile bus network, City Council warns as Metro could be delayed until 2025 $

QuoteBrisbane City Council warns its bus network is "on life support" and the State Government's 50c fares scheme could break it, as it admits the new $1.4bn Metro service could be delayed until 2025.

Brisbane commuters are being warned there may not be enough bus services to cater for surging demand when 50c public transport fares come into effect within weeks.

The warning has been issued by Brisbane City Council, which says the bus network is "on life support" and that the Miles government is "bludging" off Brisbane bus users by failing to fund adequate services. ...

Bullllllllllllshit. Might be time to address the over duplication. Because we all know Gympie road deserves 24bph between 10-11pm on a Tuesday night. Meanwhile most other services have stopped at 6pm.

Quote from: ozbob on June 23, 2024, 08:28:16 AMCouriermail --> 50c fares could break Brisbane's fragile bus network, City Council warns as Metro could be delayed until 2025 $

QuoteBrisbane City Council warns its bus network is "on life support" and the State Government's 50c fares scheme could break it, as it admits the new $1.4bn Metro service could be delayed until 2025.

Brisbane commuters are being warned there may not be enough bus services to cater for surging demand when 50c public transport fares come into effect within weeks.

The warning has been issued by Brisbane City Council, which says the bus network is "on life support" and that the Miles government is "bludging" off Brisbane bus users by failing to fund adequate services. ...

I visited the Metro centre last week again and one of the infrastructure team members confirmed the Adelaide st tunnel won't be complete until mid next year. They didn't mention when services will begin but when observing the sites around town, it doesn't look like they will be ready by December. I reckon a more realistic time frame for a soft opening would be March 2025. This would allow Council to deliver the coinciding bus changes and new routes with certainty as well. (Re: new bus drivers, training and new funding arrangements post election...).

Is this an attempt by the BCC to scare people off taking public transport in Brisbane, out of spite because their fancy bus project is running late again and won't be covered by the 50c fare time-frame?

Being a bus service operator, under contract, if they intentionally cut services, or if they are unable to perform services agreed upon, are they not liable to pay compensation to the State?

Why delay the new bus changes and new routes for? You've had nearly two years on this. The review is not part of the BCC's metro project at all. The BCC should not use extortion to delay the new changes because of their own incompetence in handling the metro project. Call on Translink can implement the changes sooner than next year!

There has been labour and supply issue over the last couple of years as well, across industries.

Furthermore, Council's concerns are legitimate under the circumstances, but I think their demand projections are over estimated. Although, there could be spikes in the network here and there and increased patronage on off peak weekend services for leisure travellers.

In regards to funding, we should also get a better deal from the GST pool of funds to help fund public transport. The region is growing and more people are paying GST in Se Qld, therefore this should be returned to Se Qld and not sent to WA and SA necessarily.

Brisbanetimes --> Brisbane council warns of bus-system breakdown during 50-cent fare trial $

QuoteThe Queensland government says it will negotiate further funding with Brisbane council after warnings the city's bus system may not be able to cope with the new 50-cent fare trial, and that the Brisbane Metro may be delayed.

Brisbane City Council on Sunday said commuters could face longer waits, fewer services, and worsening congestion if the state government does not invest in better buses.

It said there were 82,000 fewer bus services than a decade ago due to a lack of state funding.

But Premier Steven Miles responded by saying the government would ensure there was a fair funding arrangement so Brisbane would have the bus services it needed.

His comments came after a recruitment campaign was launched last year to address a shortage of bus drivers. ...

https://x.com/ryansrumblings/status/1804746531951829446

BCC



> https://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/traffic-and-transport/public-transport/buses/back-our-buses

The do mention the need for better integration.

" In Brisbane, buses carry two thirds of total passengers, leaving the rail network underutilised in many parts of the city.

We propose to reshape our bus network to complement rail connections, to deliver a
multi-modal network that gives passengers more options for a better, faster and more reliable journey.

A truly multi-modal city will also mean greater connectivity to our ferries and e-mobility network as well as improved public and active transport options. "

Fact Sheet > https://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/2024-06/Back%20our%20buses%20fact%20sheet.pdf

 Collaboration via the Courier Mail!! Only way to do it!!

Sent to all outlets:

Throwing More Money at Buses Ignores Underlying Network Problems

24th June 2024

RAIL Back On Track notes that Brisbane City Council's media campaign "Back our Buses" is seeking to improve funding for buses in Brisbane whilst ignoring existing inefficiencies in the bus network that could also deliver better outcomes for all South East Queensland residents ( https://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/traffic-and-transport/public-transport/buses/back-our-buses ).

RAIL Back On Track has campaigned for over 10 years, since Translink's 2013 Bus Network review was pulled down by BCC, to address:

. route duplication
. poor legibility of routes and stop for infrequent users
. low patronage on indirect/infrequent routes
. CBD centric peak hour service
. service gaps across the region
. lack of integration with the SEQ Rail Network
. limited bike facilities at stops and separated bike lanes providing safe paths to the stops

Brisbane's Bus Network has its origins in the 1970s with no major cross-city/region review ever completed to address the issues above and incorporate leading practice bus network design principles.

Even with the introduction of the SEQ Busway routes were simply funnelled onto the new infrastructure without review.

Additional funding for a bus network with its origins in the 1970s should be considered ONLY after a review/redesign of the SEQ Bus Network, including the location of dedicated bus lanes, along the lines of reviews conducted by Auckland, Houston, Dublin, Miami, Philadelphia (see references) to ensure we are getting the most out of the current investment.

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

References:

Auckland: https://www.planetizen.com/node/58779

Houston: https://jarrettwalker.com/houston-metro-transit-system-reimagining/

Dublin: https://humantransit.org/dublinbus

Miami: https://humantransit.org/2019/07/miami-the-better-bus-project-goes-public.html

Philadelphia: https://humantransit.org/2018/06/philadelphia-a-first-step-toward-a-better-bus-network.html

Facebook ...

https://x.com/railbotforum/status/1804904505471045944

Fears Brisbane's buses to crumble under passenger surge once 50-cent fares begin | 7 News Australia

https://x.com/ozbob13/status/1804907274550546939

Couriermail --> 'Argy bargy': Miles claps back at council campaign over 50c fares $

Quote... Mr Miles on Sunday dismissed the council's attack, declaring it just a local government that wants more money.

"I wouldn't read too much into the argy bargy of what is a negotiation between the state government and council," he said.

"We've been working through the details of how we support them to continue and expand that bus service."

It is understood the state government offered a one-off $50m payment to the council, which has requested $100m over five years.

Transport Minister Bart Mellish said the council had removed nine routes and amalgamated three others. ...

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https://x.com/ozbob13/status/1804910586339479613

Quote from: verbatim9 on June 23, 2024, 11:07:12 AMThere has been labour and supply issue over the last couple of years as well, across industries.

Furthermore, Council's concerns are legitimate under the circumstances, but I think their demand projections are over estimated. Although, there could be spikes in the network here and there and increased patronage on off peak weekend services for leisure travellers.

Their concerns are self induced. As the Lord Mayor and transport minister argued at the time of the last network review there is nothing wrong with Brisbanes bus network.

I did an interview on ABC Radio Brisbane on this funding issue and fifty cent fares earlier this afternoon.

Host was Spencer Howson instead of the regular host Katherine Feeney ( on leave ).

Quote from: ozbob on June 24, 2024, 16:00:42 PMI did an interview on ABC Radio Brisbane on this funding issue and fifty cent fares earlier this afternoon.

Host was Spencer Howson instead of the regular host Katherine Feeney ( on leave ).

Interview 24th June 2024 ABC Radio Brisbane Queensland Afternoons with Host Spencer Howson and Robert Dow RBoT discussion on BCC Funding and Fifty Cent Fares with some follow on callers.

Here --> https://backontrack.org/docs/abcbris/ABC_Brisbane_SH_RD_24jun24.mp3 MP3 9.7MB

The Guardian --> '50c fail': Brisbane council throws state government under the bus in public transport fight

QuoteBrisbane city council has declared a war of words with the Miles government about public bus funding, launching ratepayer-funded billboards, newspaper ads, and a petition on its website demanding more money.

The campaign has kicked off just months before Queensland votes in a state election in October.

The state government plans to slash the cost of fares to just 50c from August, which is expected to direct thousands of motorists on to the city's buses and trains.

But transport chair Ryan Murphy said the Brisbane city council was concerned the policy "will become a 50c fail".

He told ABC radio on Monday council wanted slightly less than $100m "for five years" plus growth funding. The state government offered a one-off $50m payment on Friday, after weeks of negotiations, he said.

"We're conscious that they've got an election coming up in October and we're also conscious that we want 50c fares to work, but we really tried hard behind closed doors and they aren't listening, so we're now having this conversation openly," he said.

Murphy said the campaign was about "asking the state government for a better deal to keep Brisbane moving". ...

I can see where they are coming from, but at the same time, the council needs to look in their own backyard and look for easy cost cutting where possible, eg some decent truncations that dont necessarily impact on the whole network.

Quote from: Gazza on June 26, 2024, 11:04:53 AMI can see where they are coming from, but at the same time, the council needs to look in their own backyard and look for easy cost cutting where possible, eg some decent truncations that dont necessarily impact on the whole network.

https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/council-to-call-for-submissions-into-own-bus-review-20130322-2gkh7.html

Cr Murphy on ABC Radio

> https://www.facebook.com/watch/?ref=embed_video&v=1661444417939182