RAIL - Back On Track Forum

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Quote from: achiruel on March 05, 2024, 05:27:41 AM

Quote from: ozbob on March 05, 2024, 02:47:07 AMBrisbanetimes --> All bets are off as Greens tout housing takeover of Eagle Farm racecourse $

QuoteA Greens-led Brisbane City Council would buy Eagle Farm racecourse – compulsorily if necessary – to provide public and affordable housing for up to 10,000 residents, lord mayoral candidate Jonathan Sriranganathan will announce on Tuesday.

If the vision was realised, 4000 homes would be built in a series of five-storey buildings, which would also include ground-level shops, offices and services. ...

... Sriranganathan said such an influx of residents – the Greens estimated about 10,000 would live in the precinct – should prompt the Queensland government to duplicate the Doomben train line, which would allow trains at nearby Ascot station every 15 minutes, seven days a week. ...

IANAL, but I think the Greens might find that building housing is not a valid purpose for a Council to compulsorily acquire land. No wonder the release was embargoed!

I am not a planning lawyer, but a quick squizz at the Acquisition of Land Act 1967 suggests that is correct.  Public housing per se is not an authorised purpose for taking land unless you can shoehorn it in to one of the other purposes somehow or unless the Act is amended.

Quote from: achiruel on March 05, 2024, 05:27:41 AM

Quote from: ozbob on March 05, 2024, 02:47:07 AMBrisbanetimes --> All bets are off as Greens tout housing takeover of Eagle Farm racecourse $

QuoteA Greens-led Brisbane City Council would buy Eagle Farm racecourse – compulsorily if necessary – to provide public and affordable housing for up to 10,000 residents, lord mayoral candidate Jonathan Sriranganathan will announce on Tuesday.

If the vision was realised, 4000 homes would be built in a series of five-storey buildings, which would also include ground-level shops, offices and services. ...

... Sriranganathan said such an influx of residents – the Greens estimated about 10,000 would live in the precinct – should prompt the Queensland government to duplicate the Doomben train line, which would allow trains at nearby Ascot station every 15 minutes, seven days a week. ...

IANAL, but I think the Greens might find that building housing is not a valid purpose for a Council to compulsorily acquire land. No wonder the release was embargoed!

It is a perverse world!!

Can acquire land for a road but not to house people!!

Quote from: JonnoIt is a perverse world!!

Can acquire land for a road but not to house people!!

Maybe BCC will branch out and acquire more State Government type powers. Not a remote possibility.

Couriermail --> 'Absurd, financially irresponsible': Racing Qld slams Greens' plan to forcibly seize Eagle Farm for social housing project $

QuoteRacing Queensland boss Jason Scott has labelled a radical Greens plan to forcibly seize Eagle Farm Racecourse as "absurd, preposterous and financially irresponsible."

Greens Lord Mayoral candidate Jonathan Sriranganathan has announced his intentions to compulsorily acquire Eagle Farm for affordable housing and public green space if the Greens win the looming Brisbane City Council election.

He claims about $40m in council funds would be sufficient for the plan which would also look to share housing construction costs with the State Government.

Racing Queensland, which administers racing in the state, has so far stayed out of the matter but furious CEO Jason Scott has broken his silence. ...

Standard economic analysis of price controls suggests that if the rent is set below market, there will be a long queue.

Conversely, if the racecourse property is somehow purchased that value isn't lost. Land may be used, but unlike consumption goods, it isn't consumed. It becomes an asset that has a value you can borrow against, just like what happens when you buy a home and pay a mortgage.

Land also tends to increase in value over time as well, as local amenities and population increases.

I'm not suggesting the policy is a good/bad idea, just pointing out some known things.

Jono has come out with some big ideas that are landing. His profile is bigger than Tracey's IMO at the moment.

QuoteStandard economic analysis of price controls suggests that if the rent is set below market, there will be a long queue.

Well yeah because people are really hurting, so will jump at the opportunity to move into affordable housing to end the pain. There are already multi year wait lists for public housing, so we should work towards reducing the length of that 'queue'.

And the market price is high because what's your choice? sleep in a cardboard box?

I like and support the idea of the conversion of Ascot racing course. I wouldn't shed a tear at the loss of every horse racing track in the city, and it's well placed for urban renewal, and upgrade of the Doomben line.

However, as SurfRail has noted, as well as the bigwigs in the press, I doubt BCC has the powers to do this. It would need to come from the state, and I see a collaboration between a Greens Council and a Labor state government just as problematic as the current clash we have between LNP Council and state Labor.

As for BCC "acquiring" new powers, that's just not possible under the constitution as far as I'm aware. Any powers would have to be bestowed upon them from the state, and again I see that being unlikely

^ London to a brick that even if BCC was legally able to take Eagle Farm, it won't cost only $40m to compensate BRC and anybody else with some sort of interest in the land, all of whom are entitled to various statutory compensation.  It's probably cheaper to close and remediate a tip to use instead.

Prime location for a entertainment centre or stadium that could be used for the Olympics or concerts to rival Sydney/Melbourne. Transport issues not a problem as you have an under-utilised heavy rail line with a station that stops outside the entrance. Nudgee Rd can be used for all heavy vehicles access into said stadium.

Brisbanetimes --> Schrinner's Metro achieves rare milestone – backing from the Greens $

QuoteLord Mayor Adrian Schrinner's $1.8 billion Metro megabus project won support from the Greens, but not Labor, during the Brisbane City Council mayoral debate.

The first two stages of the Metro – an electric, three-car rapid bus service running through 18 stations along 22 kilometres of busways – are due to finally take passengers in late 2024.

The first Metro line will run from Eight Mile Plains to Roma Street Station, while the second will connect the Royal Brisbane and Women's Hospital to the University of Queensland and all stops in between.

Future Metro links on Brisbane's northside have been proposed by the LNP; to a proposed northern electric bus charging station at Fitzgibbon, to Brisbane Airport and to Capalaba.

At the debate on Thursday, the Greens' mayoral candidate, Jonathan Sriranganathan, threw his support to an extension of the Metro network.

"The Greens certainly support extending the Metro to the northside," Sriranganathan told the Queensland Media Club. ...

Couriermail --> Opinion: Lacklustre lord mayoral campaign finally gets some colour $

QuoteThursday's lord mayoral debate stood in stark contrast to the Brisbane City Council campaign so far.

The campaign for Brisbane's top job has been lacklustre. But Thursday's debate added the colour most voters are craving. ...

... Will the debate make a difference? Probably not.

Schrinner will be returned as lord mayor despite a sizeable swing.

The Greens will win a couple of wards from the LNP and register their highest mayoral vote. And Labor will quietly lick its wounds ahead of an October state election.

Paul Williams is an associate professor at Griffith University

https://x.com/ozbob13/status/1765772407053447179?s=20

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/politics/polling-greens-could-win-five-wards-secure-brisbane-opposition/news-story/f985e83b88ffdfc5f3c9d7a21b7e42e9

QuoteInternal grassroots polling by the Greens shows the progressive minor party is within striking distance of leapfrogging Labor and becoming the official opposition in Brisbane City Council after next weekend's local government election.

The research – which uses the grassroots doorknocking data collection method pioneered by now-federal Greens MP Max Chandler-Mather – predicts the Greens will hold the Gabba ward, win Paddington and the Walter Taylor ward from the Liberal National Party, and are close to taking Coorparoo, Central and Enoggera from the LNP as well. ...

Couriermail --> 'Coalition of chaos': Labor candidate confirms she would work with Greens $

QuoteLabor's lord mayoral candidate has confirmed she would work with the Greens if forced to in the aftermath of the Brisbane City council election but insists neither party has done a formal power sharing deal.

It comes as video footage emerged of the Greens lord mayoral hopeful Jonathan Sriranganathan telling supporters the minor party could "knock the LNP out of a majority and create a situation where you have a Greens mayor and a Greens-Labor majority coalition".

LNP Team Schrinner has leapt on the comments as proof of a "dodgy power sharing deal" secured by a "Green/Labor Coalition of Chaos" – a claim it has pushed throughout the campaign as it battles two fronts in a bid to hold on to power. ...

Silly article. LNP is itself a coalition. Plenty of examples of multi party politics in NZ and Europe.

They should all work together, because that's who the people chose to be elected.

How stupid!!! Councils are almost uniformly a mix of non-party coalitions.

LNP brings politics to places politics is not needed.

Quote from: Jonno on March 10, 2024, 08:46:46 AMHow stupid!!! Councils are almost uniformly a mix of non-party coalitions.

LNP brings politics to places politics is not needed.

BCC has been political for a long time. It is not a product of the current administration.

Quote from: achiruel on March 10, 2024, 09:05:08 AM

Quote from: Jonno on March 10, 2024, 08:46:46 AMHow stupid!!! Councils are almost uniformly a mix of non-party coalitions.

LNP brings politics to places politics is not needed.

BCC has been political for a long time. It is not a product of the current administration.

it has certainly got 1000 times worse under them. They are hostile to the State Govt to every resident, visitor/employee and business owner's detriment

Quote from: achiruel on March 10, 2024, 09:05:08 AMBCC has been political for a long time. It is not a product of the current administration.

Further to this, in a bunch of councils in Qld you'd also imagine it's not that the councillors aren't members of either the LNP or ALP - but rather that the political middle of the council lies well within one of the parties. If there's what are effectively red-on-red and blue-on-blue contests then it just doesn't make sense for the party to endorse.

Then there's places like Moreton Bay Div 8 where one of the candidates has a red background sign and another has a blue background sign, hmm...

--- edit to add ---

To be clear, I think in the big urban SEQ councils the parties should be running campaigns. Who's responsible for envisioning the future of the Moreton Bay, Logan, Redlands council areas?
If it's the state government then - seriously - why do we have elected local councils at all?
So since surely it's not the state government, but rather local councillors, their vision needs to be articulated and tested against alternatives. That's politics.
And at the scale of the councils we have, with several hundred thousand residents, it takes resources on the level of a political party to run a serious campaign.

Brisbanetimes --> How the lord mayoral candidates will fix Brisbane's bus system $

QuoteMore than 54 per cent of bus commuters will have faster journeys under a radical shake-up of Brisbane's buses – already approved by Translink – if the LNP wins City Hall on March 16.

A further 33 per cent of commuters will be of the same duration on more efficient routes, while 13 per cent of bus commuters will have slightly slower bus trips, but have more suburban buses.

The LNP's plan introduces "two-seat" bus trips to Brisbane, where commuters take a suburban bus to a Brisbane Metro hub, and then travel by Metro through the CBD.

"We will add 30 million additional trips into the network by 2031; it's 80 million annually now, we will add 30 million extra trips by 2031," Brisbane City Council's Transport chair Cr Ryan Murphy said.

At the 19 Brisbane Metro hubs, the suburban buses return to extra suburban bus services, while the passengers hop on to Metro rapid transit buses to travel every five minutes to the CBD. ...

In 2024 the Brisbane Metro network will act as a central rapid transit spine where suburban buses link in.

^ sensible reform.  Eleven years late ...

Quote from: ozbob on March 11, 2024, 08:29:27 AM^ sensible reform.  Eleven years late ...

Nothing for the Northside though 

Well, RBOT only put the proposal to them in 2013. 

Northside - best hope is to get M3 to Chermside which will force network changes.

^^ Isn't this just what had already been promised under "Brisbane's New Bus Network"?

Quote from: nathandavid88 on March 11, 2024, 09:58:58 AM^^ Isn't this just what had already been promised under "Brisbane's New Bus Network"?

Broadly, but now confirmed. Approved by Translink.

I just can't see how they can claim the benefits they do!

From BCC's own business case:

Currently 220 buses moving 14,250 ppl across Victoria bridge.

After new bi-artic buses 150 buses moving 13,260 of which only 40 are new bi-artic buses.

So already reduction in passenger numbers + the new buses have to mix with the 110 other buses on the busway so not sure I see how there can be a time improvement here.

No plans for bus lanes elsewhere so buses stuck in traffic still!!

Even if the other buses (110) are redeployed to add frequency on other routes I just can't get to 30million extra passengers!

That is a 37% increase.

Can someone show how this is done?

PS- the comment ""In Brisbane, two-thirds of all public transport commuters travel by bus, not by rail," is basically because buses don't integrate with trains much and in fact compete in many locations. This is a failing not a claim of some "greatness"!!

Quote from: #Metro on March 11, 2024, 09:24:01 AMWell, RBOT only put the proposal to them in 2013. 

Northside - best hope is to get M3 to Chermside which will force network changes.

We shouldn't have to wait for M3 to get the bare minimum of service improvements.

Quote from: RowBroWe shouldn't have to wait for M3 to get the bare minimum of service improvements.

I'm a pragmatist.

If that is what works, do it.

The current blue team admin want to send an M3 up that way anyway, not much benefit I can see to oppose it.

Northsiders also get something in return for the pain of a bus review. So it works well from that perspective too.

QuoteThe current LNP admin want to send an M3 up that way anyway

Change the admin so we can ditch the stalling tactics.

If it's literally costing $172m for the Northern Transitway (State expenditure), and if the Rochedale bus depot ($125m) is anything to go by, expect to see that sort of money needed for the Bracken Ridge electric bus depot.
Thats $300m already to get out of the starting blocks.

And I'll bet you no further bus infrastructure improvements will happen on the northside until the Gympie Road tunnel.

If there's all these dumb preconditions and costs to even consider bus reform, then its hard to argue its a cheap or cost neutral improvement.

Happy to come back to this question after election day, but we do have to work with the admins of the day whatever colour team they are.

Edit: Would also like to know if if the Rochdale depot site was already BCC land or purchased. The Fitzgibbon site is already BCC owned, so cost may be cheaper due to avoided land acquisition costs.

Typical BCC sprouting sh!t again. So passengers will happily transfer bus to bus now, but bus to rail? Nooooo, definitely can't have that! 🤦�♂️

^^ Their excuse for that is that the rail network is inadequate. The argument is a bit of an own-goal though, as a big part of the network only carrying one third of passengers is that their bus network operates in opposition to it.

This is from the BT article Ozbob posted above:

""In Brisbane, two-thirds of all public transport commuters travel by bus, not by rail," Murphy said.

"And for the past decade, Brisbane City Council has been seriously concerned about State Labor's focus on Cross River Rail as the only public transport project that matters," he said.

"Here in Brisbane, you can have a great rail network, but if it carries only one-third of all passengers, that is not going to provide the step change in transport quality that we need heading in to the 2032 Olympic and Paralympic Games."

Yeah, the 'step change' will happen with CRR, but it really is dependent on the state holding up their end of the bargain and boosting rail frequencies.
If they can prioritise additional off peak services Springfield to Kippa Ring, that will enable a lot of reform in both the west and the north.

A lot of stations key stations don't have interchanges or if they do they are inadequate.

Coopers Plains, Toowong, Morningside and Indooroopilly are examples.

This needs to be fixed.

Quote from: #Metro on March 11, 2024, 09:24:01 AMWell, RBOT only put the proposal to them in 2013. 

Northside - best hope is to get M3 to Chermside which will force network changes.

Nope. No guarantee at all of that at all happening. Even if it did only the 333 would be cut. And you can't claim that those resources could be used elsewhere as the majority of 333 services are run by the Toowong depot and not Eagle Farm or Virginia. Remember other than the 680, 330 and 340 there are no other bus services north of Chermside that currently has an off peak frequency better than 59 minutes. And that's not to mention the 120 minute frequency routes and peak only direction routes. If you jump into peak hour the railway line has a train every 7 minutes which is better than the buz peak standard and yet we still have some first services reaching train stations at 9am (looking at you inbound 327, outbound 335 and 336/337).

Quote from: Gazza on March 11, 2024, 16:42:17 PMYeah, the 'step change' will happen with CRR, but it really is dependent on the state holding up their end of the bargain and boosting rail frequencies.
If they can prioritise additional off peak services Springfield to Kippa Ring, that will enable a lot of reform in both the west and the north.

That's the problem. They can (and translink have proposed 4tph on additional lines but were denied by the state) run higher frequencies now if they wanted to however CRR has been the bottleneck preventing that as the fleet will be stretched to the absolute limit until QTMP comes online. Rather than risk potential cancelling of services it was easier to keep the status quo. It's also why refurbs are being rushed to the point that things like scratched windows aren't being done.

QuoteNope. No guarantee at all of that at all happening.

Which policies were ever provided with a guarantee? What does this even mean?

Blue Team have provided an election policy, Translink generally agrees to whatever BCC wants (even breaking SEQ wide fare integration if they want it), so we should not worry about this IMO.

Northside needs total reform. Not tinkering. 2012 translink network review was the best anyone has planned so far so far. Metro buses don't kick start anything.

Well, if M3 is extended to Chermside/northside the 2012 review will become obsolete.

See, the 2012 review didn't incorporate a vision of Metro BRT buses. With their introduction, the network will have to be reworked to specifically incorporate that, just like what is currently playing out on the Brisbane southside.

Quote from: #Metro on March 11, 2024, 19:37:31 PMWell, if M3 is extended to Chermside/northside the 2012 review will become obsolete.

See, the 2012 review didn't incorporate a vision of Metro BRT buses. With their introduction, the network will have to be reworked to specifically incorporate that, just like what is currently playing out on the Brisbane southside.

The 2012 reform would barely need changing. A bi-artic isn't going to add that much more capacity along Gympie Road.

Quote from: Jonno on March 11, 2024, 10:27:11 AMI just can't see how they can claim the benefits they do!

From BCC's own business case:

Currently 220 buses moving 14,250 ppl across Victoria bridge.

After new bi-artic buses 150 buses moving 13,260 of which only 40 are new bi-artic buses.

That is a 37% increase.

More routes changed to either terminate at stations not in the city and act as feeders, or suburban rockets sent via the CCB instead. Reducing crowding on the Victoria bridge is the GOAL.