RAIL - Back On Track Forum

To get DSCL just to Caloundra requires:

Beerwah station upgrade
Beerwah East (possibly, train stabling facility)
Nirimba (City of Aura)
and Caloundra (big bloody thing)

If to Birtinya ... two more stops beyond Caloundra

Would it be fair to say a MVP Caloundra Option (2 stations) would be about 18 km in length?

On a test value basis of $180 million/km, this would suggest about ~ $3.2 billion ballpark required in funding.

Looking at the maps, an enormous amount of development has already occurred at Nirimba (Aura) already.

An important environmental question is (a) whether Coastal Acid Sulfate Soils are present (CASS) and (b) if so, whether the rail project would disturb them.

^ re CASS.  I am sure the planners are well aware of such considerations.

It hasn't stopped any other development and it is a red herring.

Quote from: Stillwater on November 17, 2023, 11:29:47 AMTo get DSCL just to Caloundra requires:

Beerwah station upgrade
Beerwah East (possibly, train stabling facility)
Nirimba (City of Aura)
and Caloundra (big bloody thing)

If to Birtinya ... two more stops beyond Caloundra

Yes, I think we are looking at stage 1 Mr Stillwater!

Crucial juncture: heavy rail project in major doubt after infrastructure review
https://www.sunshinecoastnews.com.au/2023/11/17/heavy-rail-project-in-major-doubt-amid-cost-concerns/

Quote"There is $1.6b that is in the Commonwealth Budget, which we have retained for that project..."

Quote"The Queensland Government has committed a small amount to planning ($14m), but there is no construction money from (it) on the table for that project," she said.

Hmm... let's look at this further given the above.

So, if our MVP Option is about ~ $3.2 billion total, and the Feds bring $1.6 billion to the table, then that leaves exactly $1.6 billion left to make up, which would be smack bang a 50:50 funding split.

A neat result.

But the funding package will only get you as far as Caloundra based on this. More will be needed to go further.

 

The 'cheaper' option (other than do nothing) beyond DSCL Stage 1 would be buying multiple buckets of Paint and perhaps some minor roadworks for "Transit and/or Bus Lanes" alongside the Nicklin Way with "Bus Priority" measures at Traffic Lights, etc.  Although it's not along the DSCL alignment, it would serve most of the population and pretty much follows most of the existing Route 600 bus service.

Quote from: Arnz on November 17, 2023, 13:59:25 PMThe 'cheaper' option (other than do nothing) beyond DSCL Stage 1 would be buying multiple buckets of Paint and perhaps some minor roadworks for "Transit and/or Bus Lanes" alongside the Nicklin Way with "Bus Priority" measures at Traffic Lights, etc.  Although it's not along the DSCL alignment, it would serve most of the population and pretty much follows most of the existing Route 600 bus service.

I appreciate the idea Arnz, but given our growth I really don't think that could ever work as required for the numbers to be moved.
Even the Minister now acknowledges that our public transport is inadequate for our growth, even if it is just an attempt to save their likely doomed seats here on the Coast - if they don't fund or build it - or part of it, to Birtinya.

No train into the athlete's village in Maroochydore and the events at Alex.
An embarrassing schemozzle will ensue - they couldn't get enough flying taxis !

The money is in the budget and that is a momentous first, ongoing step.
Try to stay positive FF.

Quote from: Fares_Fair on November 17, 2023, 14:48:52 PMI appreciate the idea Arnz, but given our growth I really don't think that could ever work as required for the numbers to be moved.
Even the Minister now acknowledges that our public transport is inadequate for our growth, even if it is just an attempt to save their likely doomed seats here on the Coast - if they don't fund or build it - or part of it, to Birtinya.

No train into the athlete's village in Maroochydore and the events at Alex.
An embarrassing schemozzle will ensue - they couldn't get enough flying taxis !

The money is in the budget and that is a momentous first, ongoing step.
Try to stay positive FF.

I'd agree with at least Birtinya for a hypothetical Stage 1, even if it means finding the funding for the Tunnel around the Little Mountain area as part of the alignment.

Birtinya is also the major medical/employment hub with the SCUH Public & Private Hospital in the area with the surrounding Medical offices and Medical Schools (TAFE, Griffith Uni, USC, etc all having branches here).

The interim solution I think could end up being heavy rail to Birtinya and whatever form the mass transit project takes from there to Maroochydore - and then progressively extend both (heavy rail further north to Maroochydore, mass transit further south to Caloundra). 

If the focus falls off the North Coast line north of Beerwah as a consequence I don't know that would be as big a deal.

Queensland Parliament

https://documents.parliament.qld.gov.au/tableOffice/questionsAnswers/2023/1309-2023.pdf

Question on Notice
No. 1309
Asked on 25 October 2023

MS F SIMPSON ASKED MINISTER FOR TRANSPORT AND MAIN ROADS AND MINISTER
FOR DIGITAL SERVICES (HON M BAILEY)

QUESTION:

With reference to it being more than 180 days since the 90 day Federal Infrastructure Funding
review was announced, freezing $1.3b in funding for the Beerwah to Maroochydore (Direct
Sunshine Coast Line) rail passenger line—
Will the Minister advise what the State Government has done (a) to advocate to their Federal
colleagues to release the funding for this project and (b) to match it with State Funds to ensure
everything is done to build this passenger rail infrastructure to the new Sunshine Coast CBD in
Maroochydore?

ANSWER:

I thank the Member for Maroochydore for the question.

A railway cannot be built without a fully costed proposal and a detailed business case. Albanese
Government funding for the Direct Sunshine Coast Line would not be available in the current or
next financial year because there is no detailed business case for the project.

It is therefore not clear what the Member is referring to in the question when the Member refers
to freezing funding.

The Albanese Government position, as stated during the federal election campaign, is to hold
funding for the project pending consideration of a detailed business case. There is no change to
this position based on any recent communications in the context of that government's review of
its Infrastructure Investment Program.

That is why the best advocacy the State Government can provide in support of the Direct
Sunshine Coast Line is to prepare a robust business case that meets the standard required for
assessment by both State and Federal governments in order to establish firm costings and scope
to inform an investment decision.

That is why the Palaszczuk Government's 2023–24 budget provided $14 million toward the
finalisation of a detailed business case for the 37 kilometre corridor between Beerwah and
Maroochydore. That business case is expected to be finalised in the coming months.
On 9 November 2023, I stated on ABC Radio Sunshine Coast that we have made it very clear
that we do not believe there should be any cuts to infrastructure in Queensland. The Premier,
Deputy Premier, Treasurer and I continue to advocate on behalf of Queensland's important
infrastructure priorities.

Interview 28 Nov 2023 ABC Radio Brisbane Drive Host Steve Austin with Robert Dow RBoT discuss fast rail for regional Queensland. Reference to the Sunshine Coast line and DSCRL towards the end of the interview.

Here --> https://backontrack.org/docs/abcbris/abcbris_sa_rd_28nov23.mp3 MP3  10.0 MB

Toowoomba Chronicle--->https://www.thechronicle.com.au/news/queensland/breakthrough-in-federal-funding-for-sunshine-coast-rail-extension/news-story/4f71cbbe879d7ad52fca64cf9884b444

QuoteThe Courier-Mail can reveal the rail extension, viewed as a critical project to bust congestion during the Olympic and Paralympic Games, will go ahead after Deputy Premier Steven Miles led a delegation to Canberra to lobby his federal counterpart.

^^Confirmed Sunny Coast Rail will go ahead as planned. 👍

Toowoomba Chronicle --> Breakthrough in federal funding for Sunshine Coast rail extension $

QuoteA critical Brisbane 2032 Games legacy project will go ahead after the federal government locked in funding for the Sunshine Coast rail extension.

There were fears the major project north of Brisbane was on the chopping block, due to the controversial infrastructure funding retreat from the Albanese Government.

But The Courier-Mail can reveal the rail extension, viewed as a critical project to bust congestion during the Olympic and Paralympic Games, will go ahead after Deputy Premier Steven Miles led a delegation to Canberra to lobby his federal counterpart. ...

https://x.com/ozbob13/status/1729876182186037542?s=20

Part of Couriermail Editorial 30th November 2023

https://www.couriermail.com.au/news/opinion/editorial-top-five-priorities-for-our-future-brisbane/news-story/b1606214ac0150e880b2c3402b67c336

Quote...SUNSHINE COAST RAIL ESSENTIAL PART OF LEGACY
The purpose of Queensland bidding for the Olympics and Paralympics in 2032 was never so much about the spectacle itself – as amazing as it will be – but because hosting the Games would act as a catalyst for bringing forward infrastructure for a fast-growing region.

It was disappointing, then, to see earlier this month federal Infrastructure Minister Catherine King put on hold indefinitely her government's contribution to the proposed heavy rail extension into the heart of the Sunshine Coast.

While we acknowledge that was due to the federal government wanting the business case to stack up, we also worried it was a signal that Canberra was getting shaky.

It was good to see that Deputy Premier Steven Miles yesterday won from Minister King a fresh commitment to "prioritise" the Sunshine Coast rail line as part of the transport program for the 2032 Games – to ensure a significant infrastructure legacy.

The Courier-Mail's view has consistently been that the Citytrain extension east from Beerwah should not stop at Caloundra and instead must service Maroochydore for it to be truly transformative. ...

https://x.com/Jeffrey_Addison/status/1729855010148618366?s=20

" ... The ball is in the state's court. ... "

Correct, this overhyped by the Couriermail et al.  The reality is as FF and I have pointed out, the Feds are just confirming their committment to the $1.6billion that has always been there.  We will not know until the business case is finalised and the new costs are made public if the State Government will fund in full or perhaps stage it, and if the Feds will lift their funding committment.

There are the delays with the track amplification north of Beerburrum too #justsaying

RailBOT may as well send a delegation to Lourdes to pray for a miracle that the DSCL will be built. As for Dr Miles securing from Canberra a pledge that the line is a 'priority project', pleeeeease!

The feds' $1.6 billion promised contribution has been on the table for some time. The issue is a lack of state funding for this project, and always has been. Canberra has been very patient, not reallocating that $1.6 billion to another state where there is a shovel-ready transport infrastructure project.

The pressure is on the Palaszczuk Government to complete the business case (due by the end of the year), and this time getting things right so there is no massive cost blowout surprise.

FF will be on ABC Radio Brisbane Breakfast shortly ( ~7:10 am ) discussing the DSCRL.

A question?
Why do delays on the track amplification prevent construction commencing on DSCRL?

I know the amplification has been delayed but at least parts have been started like the relocation of Steve Irwin way.

You could start DSCRL tomorrow , and at worst Both projects would meet at the same time and could be linked up simultaneously.

They don't as such.  But the DSCRL will be a stranded investment without the upgrade north of Beerburrum.

They need to accelerate the Sunshine Coast line upgrade while getting the DSCRL construction organised, and then continue the project to the DSCRL.  Rail engineering resources are in short supply Oz wide.  Time will beat them unless they get moving now!

Quote from: ozbob on November 30, 2023, 07:05:59 AMFF will be on ABC Radio Brisbane Breakfast shortly ( ~7:10 am ) discussing the DSCRL.

Interview 30th November 2023 ABC Radio Brisbane Breakfast Hosts Kelly Higgins-Devine & Joel Spreadborough with Jeffery Addison RAIL Back On Track discuss Sunshine Coast rail.

Interview --> https://backontrack.org/docs/abcbris/abcbris_breakfast_ja_30nov23.mp3 MP3 4.4MB

Quote from: Gazza on November 30, 2023, 07:09:47 AMA question?
Why do delays on the track amplification prevent construction commencing on DSCRL?

I know the amplification has been delayed but at least parts have been started like the relocation of Steve Irwin way.

You could start DSCRL tomorrow , and at worst Both projects would meet at the same time and could be linked up simultaneously.

Where are you getting all the labour from to run both projects at once? Realistically, it's going to be tough to even start one of them until CRR is closer to being finished. Then there's LGCFR as well. It's not a wonder that costs have gone through the roof with trying to do so much at once. We would've been a lot better off if the LNP didn't f#ck up CRR during their last term and it would've been finished by now.

https://x.com/railbotforum/status/1729982434438250642?s=20

Quote from: achiruel on November 30, 2023, 07:42:47 AM

Quote from: Gazza on November 30, 2023, 07:09:47 AMA question?
Why do delays on the track amplification prevent construction commencing on DSCRL?

I know the amplification has been delayed but at least parts have been started like the relocation of Steve Irwin way.

You could start DSCRL tomorrow , and at worst Both projects would meet at the same time and could be linked up simultaneously.

Where are you getting all the labour from to run both projects at once? Realistically, it's going to be tough to even start one of them until CRR is closer to being finished. Then there's LGCFR as well. It's not a wonder that costs have gone through the roof with trying to do so much at once. We would've been a lot better off if the LNP didn't f#ck up CRR during their last term and it would've been finished by now.

Redeploy/retrain the people going to build this and other "self-defeating" projects 👇🏾👇🏾

QuoteWhere are you getting all the labour from to run both projects at once?

Workforce leaving CRR as it moves from construction to commissioning.

 

https://x.com/couriermail/status/1729968107018678333?s=20

Quote from: transcriptThe Brisbane to Gold Coast, so what's that about 45 minutes, but people love those long train journeys.
But what about every day? I mean, there are some people who commute long distances every day and it's just part of life.
People who live in Bendigo to Melbourne, for example, or if you're in Sydney, you know, and you live out at Penrith, you might be doing a trip or even a longer trip than that.
Absolutely.
So the idea of going from the Sunshine Coast to Brisbane or Brisbane to the Sunshine Coast for work isn't so silly.
A lot of people do it.
It sure do.
And the Federal Government has confirmed its funding for the Sunshine Coast rail extension and we're just curious about what facilities might be available for little bladders as well.
Exactly, a two-hour journey, you need a look.
Jeff Addison is from Rail Back on Track.
Hi Jeff, good morning Kelly, good morning Joel, good morning.
Okay, now I have to ask this because I have had my parents on the train ride to the Sunshine Coast and no loos, which can be a bit of a problem over two hours, not just for those of us who are, you know, over 50, but for those of us who are under 10 and might not be able to hold on.
Don't they normally lose on these long longer journeys? Look, there is supposed to be, uh, there was actually a big battle with the Government back in 2014 over toilets to the Sunshine Coast on trains and Government at the time, the Transport Minister Scott Emerson promised that all Sunshine Coast trains would have working loos.
Um, so that battle was sort of won back in 2014.
I have heard reports every now and then of trains coming to and from the Sunshine Coast without toilets or without working toilets.
Yeah, and obviously as you said, you know, the length of the journey, it's the best part of two hours.
Um, not having facilities for, you know, elderly people or young children, um, is something that, you know, needs to be eradicated.
Absolutely.
So moving on to the actual rail extension, what does this mean for Greater Brisbane and for those on the Sunshine Coast? Look, certainly we would welcome it.
Um, the Sunshine Coast at this date in time in the 21st century has a single rail track to service our region.
Um, you know, nowhere else in the nation has the limited track and services that the Sunshine Coast has.
So this will be a huge boost for, you know, travellers from the Sunshine Coast to Brisbane and Brisbane to the Sunshine Coast and tourism.
Um, you know, current public transport use on the Sunshine Coast is pretty abysmal.
It's about three percent.
You know, the Government talks about targets of seven or eight percent, um, which just can't be met with our existing public transport services.
Jeff Addison from Rail Back on Track on ABC Radio Brisbane.
We know Stephen Miles took a delegation down to get this back on track.
Now that it is, how long do we expect the project to take? Uh, that is the big question.
Um, I have great concerns that they're not going to be able to get the job done in time for the Olympics, uh, the Olympic and Paralympic Games in 2032.
And my reason for that is that the Redcliffe Peninsula line, which was announced by Julia Gillard in 2010, started construction in 2013, finished on the 4th of October 2016.
That was six years to build 12 kilometres of track, 12 and a half kilometres of track.
We're talking 37 kilometres of track.
So three times the length.
And that's the biggest concern we have, that this rail line to Maroochydore won't be finished in time for the Olympics.
Was the project ever really in doubt? Uh, look, it wasn't from my point of view.
Um, the Federal Government, Catherine King, honoured the 1.6 billion dollars that the former Coalition Government had set aside for the project when they won office.
And, you know, that was wonderful news.
And I, she reconfirmed it after the latest infrastructure review.
She said there would be 160 million for planning and the remaining 1.44 billion dollars would be for construction.
That's pretty standard from a Federal Government.
They generally tend to put their money towards construction so that, you know, Federal money isn't wasted on State Government plans, um, of which there have been a lot for this project over the last two decades.
Do we have the plan for exactly where it's going already, Jeff? Uh, look, we have the corridor.
Yes, what's called the CAMCOS corridor, um, the Caboolture Maroochydore corridor study that was finished back in 2001.
Um, and then, so it's just a matter of, you know, what route they take through that corridor from Beerwah up to the heart of Maroochydore.
Okay, now Jeff, you mentioned obviously the timeline.
It's going to be tight.
What does that mean jobs-wise? Uh, look, they'll need a lot of workers.
They're going to need a lot of, um, you know, I guess assistance to meet that kind of target.
Um, I don't know anywhere in Australia where a 37 kilometre, um, section of rail line in the Greenfield corridor has been built within nine years.
Uh, and, you know, and that's what's needed.
Um, so yeah, look, you'd expect a real, they're going to need a huge boost in that, you know, the rail construction industry to get this project done on time.
But given that the Federal Government, you know, they have confirmed the money, it was never really in doubt.
Um, I could have saved Stephen Miles a trip, uh, but the ball, the ball really is in the State Government's court.
Um, and, you know, to their credit, they've put 14 million dollars towards the business case.
That's to bring the business case forward and to have it finished by the end of this year so that the Governments can make a decision on, you know, construction in 2024 next year.
But it really all hinges on State Government funding.
And, you know, I have again serious concerns about that because there was another rail track project up here on the Sunshine Coast called the Beerburrum to Landsborough rail duplication that was announced on the 9th of June 2018 by Mark Bailey and Jackie Trad here in Nambour.
And they haven't yet laid one sleeper after over five and a half years.
Okay, so, you know, when you look at that, when you look at the length of the line, you know, the State Government are really going to need to get cracking.
And, okay, Jeff Addison from Rail Back on Track, thank you very much for your time this morning.
We'll stay across that one.
Kelly, it's almost time for the 7:30 news.
After that, we'll check in with QFES and talk about the hot summer ahead.

I have spoken to Ch10 News' Natalie McGarry and Ch7 Brisbane's Joel Dry [Queensland Edition] today on this latest 'HUGE' (sarcasm) announcement.

A great opportunity to set the record straight and point out the facts.
The $1.6 billion has been there since it was announced by the Coalition Govt in March 2022.

It was honoured by the incoming Labor Federal Government.

It was confirmed by the Federal Infrastructure Minister Catherine King after the 90-Day Infrastructure Review results were handed down on 16 November 2023.

Long story short, the Federal money was never in doubt.

^ thanks FF.  Good work!   

Quote from: Gazza on November 30, 2023, 08:19:53 AM

QuoteWhere are you getting all the labour from to run both projects at once?

Workforce leaving CRR as it moves from construction to commissioning.

So starting it tomorrow isn't realistic, then?

Queensland Parliament

https://documents.parliament.qld.gov.au/events/han/2023/2023_11_30_DAILY.pdf

Questions Without Notice

Direct Sunshine Coast Rail Line

Mr HUNT: My question is of the Minister for Transport and Main Roads and Minister for Digital
Services. Can the minister update the House on planning for the Sunshine Coast direct rail line and the
merits of any alternative approaches to planning for this infrastructure?

Mr BAILEY: I thank the member for Caloundra, who is doing an outstanding job for his electorate.
He is achieving things in a very short space of time such as the Bells Creek Arterial Road project, which
was delivered 10 years early. His record is already outstanding.

I thank the Deputy Premier for so effectively leading the delegation to Canberra yesterday to
ensure that the Sunshine Coast direct rail line will be prioritised by the federal government for the
Olympic and Paralympic Games. He is a member who gets things done and he works very hard. Why
do we have the Olympic and Paralympic Games? It is because this government funded another railway
line, Cross River Rail. We fund rail. That is what we do. Whether it is Gold Coast Light Rail, Cross River
Rail, the Sunshine Coast rail duplication or the Sunshine Coast direct rail line, this government backs
rail and backs the Sunshine Coast.

Why is there a corridor for that project? It is because previous Labor governments secured the
corridor for the heavy rail connection. In terms of preparing for it, the planning was co-funded by the
Albanese government and this government when we finally received some interest in the project from
Canberra. Previous governments under Abbott, Morrison and Turnbull gave zero. Now the business
case is nearly completed, funded by this government. That is our record on the Sunshine Coast direct
rail line.

I was interested to look at some of the history of others on this issue. I have an article that outlines
that, on 17 March 2009, the member for Maroochydore announced that the LNP would build a rail line
from Caloundra to Maroochydore. Let us think about that: it was not connected to the heavy rail network.
The member for Maroochydore announced that she wanted to build a heavy rail line that was not
connected to the South-East Queensland rail network. The next day, the then LNP leader, Lawrence
Springborg, called it 'an aspiration'. That is another LNP word for 'cuts'. We have heard 'pruning' and
'savings' from the member for Chatsworth, but at that time they called it 'an aspiration'.
They finally got into government in 2012, and what did they do about the Sunshine Coast direct
line? Nothing. Zero. They had every Sunshine Coast MP and they did not build it. That is their record
in terms of the Sunshine Coast direct line. The member for Maroochydore did not even plan to connect
it to the rest of the rail network! Who gets rail done? The Palaszczuk Labor government gets rail done.
I want to thank the Deputy Premier, the mayors and the Queensland Trucking Association for their
advocacy. We get things done.

(Time expired)

The irony of thanking the Trucking Association for the state trying to build railroads.. that to date have not even started.

WE NEED MORE ROADS MRS KING!!!!

Catherine King MP is a legend.
Honest, trustworthy, honourable, in the true sense of the word.
Everything the Queensland Government isn't.
She's a national treasure in my opinion.
No stunts.
Tells it how it is.. no theatrics.
True to her word.

Catherine King - Proper Process! 

Quote from: achiruel on November 30, 2023, 16:18:09 PM

Quote from: Gazza on November 30, 2023, 08:19:53 AM

QuoteWhere are you getting all the labour from to run both projects at once?

Workforce leaving CRR as it moves from construction to commissioning.

So starting it tomorrow isn't realistic, then?

It was a tongue in cheek comment addressing the notion that somehow the duplication won't be ready in time for the dscrl.
For all the delays that have happened with the duplication, it's definitely still going to be done first isn't it, because of how much further ahead it is with procurement and planning.

Yes, Gazza.
I hope so.

Quote from: Gazza on November 30, 2023, 20:36:44 PM

Quote from: achiruel on November 30, 2023, 16:18:09 PM

Quote from: Gazza on November 30, 2023, 08:19:53 AM

QuoteWhere are you getting all the labour from to run both projects at once?

Workforce leaving CRR as it moves from construction to commissioning.

So starting it tomorrow isn't realistic, then?

It was a tongue in cheek comment addressing the notion that somehow the duplication won't be ready in time for the dscrl.
For all the delays that have happened with the duplication, it's definitely still going to be done first isn't it, because of how much further ahead it is with procurement and planning.

https://x.com/7NewsSC/status/1730140065131909272?s=20

Steven Miles celebrates funding win but critics believe its a fuss over nothing | 7 News Australia

https://x.com/10NewsFirstQLD/status/1730121507710394446?s=20