RAIL - Back On Track Forum

One of the issues that we identified earlier is the lack of sufficient car parking at many stations.  THere are a number of options -

build multi-story car parks
build new stations where there is land (perhaps the Telegraph Rd level crossing, although we may be too late
improve the bus service from burbs to rail
build new lines to serve large car parks.

The latter may not be too logical, but (and I don't the details) if a decent tract of land could be found a couple of ks out of Ferny Grove, build a large car park track and station and perhaps offer a special fare deal from the station, it may take pressure of Ferny Grove, perhaps Keperra and maybe even Strrathpine and Bald Hills.  

Richard

Couriermail Quest --> Chaos looms after Brisbane City Council rejects plan for alternative parking during construction

QuoteThere could be 300 fewer parking spaces at Ferny Grove railway station during construction of a retail/ residential development there.

Brisbane City Council has refused to even accept an application by the developer Honeycombes to use the undeveloped part the 13,020sqm Movilla Street Park as a temporary car park for 300 vehicles.

State Labor MP for Ferny Grove Mark Furner blasted the decision as "just pure politics".

"What we have seen here is a blatant disregard for the needs of the local community by the Brisbane City Council and in particular Councillor (Steve) Toomey," Mr Furner said.

"The BCC have been banging on about needing more commuter parking for years, then when I deliver it, they block it at every opportunity."

Cr Toomey (The Gap) did not respond to an invitation to comment.

Mr Furner said: "This is nothing more than revenue raising by a greedy council with an out of touch local councillor."

Mr Furner said concerns about the future of the park were unfounded.

"Both the Department of Transport and Main Roads and Honeycombes are happy to sign an agreement with council regarding the use of the park," he said.

"This will ensure that it is restored to its original state once the transit oriented development (TOD) was completed.

"This application had the full support of the Palaszczuk Government and the Department of Transport and Main Roads, but last week council refused."

In refusing to even accept the application, BCC asset management manager Joe Bannan said the proposal was inconsistent with the purpose of the open space zone.

Mr Bannan's letter said Movilla St Park would not be available to residents during construction, nor would it provide facilities "consistent with Council's desired standards of ­service".

Mr Bannan also said the proposed use had the potential to "negatively impact the amenity of the surrounding residential area".

"The information and plans of the proposal presented to date have not demonstrated that the proposed transit oriented ­development at the Ferny Grove train station will provide an overwhelming community benefit that would justify sufficient grounds to overcome the conflict."

Mr Furner said while this decision would not hold up the project, commuters would be inconvenienced by the council's decision.

"The Ferny Grove TOD will be built," he said.

But, Mr Furner said, residents would now have to pay the council for a residential parking permit.

There are currently 902 parking spaces for commuters at the station. A development application has yet to be lodged with the council for the project.

Now's the time to create a couple of high frequency feeder bus routes to and from Ferny Grove station to compensate for the reduction in parking. BCC and Translink would have a breakdown of which Park n Riders come from where.

There's a heap coming over the range from Samford. Maybe it's time for the 399 to run more than 2 services per direction per day?

People from Bunya, Arana Hills, Everton Hills often go to Grovely/Oxford Park/Mitchelton (hypotenuse effect).

Couriermail Quest --> Big boost for commuter parking in Ferny Grove railway station redevelopment plans

QuotePlans for the redevelopment on the Fenry Grove railway station carpark include about 760 more parking spaces for commuters as well as shops and a cinema complex.

Honeycombes Property Group (HPG) lodged an application for its $99.6 million Ferny Grove Central project with Brisbane City Council this week.

It also features a supermarket, 13,434 sqm of retail and commercial space, and 64 residential units.

HPG's application said potential tenants included Woolworths, Dan Murphy's and Majestic Cinemas.

If approved, the complex would have three buildings, ranging from 3-6 storeys, although HPG said these would appear to be 3-5 storeys when seen from the street.

The number of commuter parking spaces would be increased from 973 to 1732 – an increase of 759.

This would include building a three-level parking station on the most western part of the site which HPG said would be set back 3m from the northern and southern boundaries.

According to the application the townhouses to the north are orientated towards and internal driveway and present mostly blank facades to the proposed car park.

It said the houses to the south were set back from the boundary, providing 15-18m separation.

There would be another 469 spaces for the proposed retail and residential components.

The application also contains plans for an access through the site to Samford Rd from Conavalla St, which HPG said would reduce congestion at the Arbor St level crossing.

https://twitter.com/RuthMcCosker/status/1033897835576549376

Large Scale TOD Proposed for Ferny Grove Station

https://brisbanedevelopment.com/large-scale-tod-proposed-for-ferny-grove-station/

As long as it's all above the floodplain, lol.

Kedron Brook goes over the Samford Rd bridge once every few years.

Couriermail --> Ferny Grove's new plaza is all about the journey

QuoteIT'S the beginning of a new era for the end of Brisbane's Ferny Grove train line.

The end-of-route train station, just 10km northwest of the CBD, is set to be transformed into a major transport, retail and residential hub featuring a subtropical architectural design.

On completion, the Ferny Grove transit-oriented development will comprise retail space spanning 7425sq m, a cinema complex and 64 apartments over four levels, as well as parking for more than 2200 vehicles.

The $10 million project is an initiative of Queensland's Department of Transport and Main Roads, and is to be developed by Honeycombes Property Group which formally lodged a development application with Brisbane City council last week.

Ferny Grove Central already has formal expressions of interest in place for almost 90 per cent of its retail and commercial premises, subject to the DA approval.

HPG managing director Peter Honeycombe said the high level of early interest being shown in the site from major supermarkets, national retail chains and allied health providers confirmed the project's outstanding potential.

Ferny Grove Central's retail component will be anchored by a 3400sq m supermarket.

Majestic Cinemas will take up an additional 2117sqm to open an eight-screen complex while a national fitness centre has provided a formal expression of interest to occupy 1995sq m and terms have been agreed in principle with a child care centre to operate a 123-place facility from a 1820sq m space.

The residential component comprises a four-level apartment building of one, two and three-bedroom units.

The TOD has been designed by Brisbane-based architects bureau^proberts with a light-filled entryway as well as open and screened facades to capture cool breezes and filter the summer sun.

In a nod to Ferny Grove's heritage and the claypit and tile factory that operated just south of the train station, the design of its external panels borrow from the original roof tiles once made nearby.

"Through our design, we're determined to deliver greater connectivity between this major transport hub and the wider community it serves, and offer vendors and shoppers an alternative to traditional retail environments," said bureau^proberts managing and creative director Liam Proberts.

An economic assessment of the mixed-use project estimated it would inject $287 million into the area during construction and a further $199 million a year on an ongoing basis.

Construction of Ferny Grove Central is expected to commence in early 2019, subject to securing development approval from the Brisbane City Council.

So Peter Dutton has several large billboards booked out on Samford Rd, and at the moment they're crowing about how he's secured funding for 350 new car parks at Ferny Grove.

... this is hilarious, because only a few months ago they were about his campaign for more parking at FG... and I'm pretty sure those ads went up AFTER the FG TOD proposal was released.

^ Politicians never let facts get in the way of any story they want to tell.

Quote from: Stillwater on February 21, 2019, 08:58:36 AM
^ Politicians never let facts get in the way of any story they want to tell.

How do you know if a politician is lying? Their lips are moving.............

Called up the electorate office today. Apparently this funding is $11M for 350 "commuter-only" (paraphrase) carparks additional to whatever else is built as part of the TOD.

Secure bicycle shelter FG



Photograph R Dow 24th June 2022

Quote from: verbatim9 on June 25, 2022, 11:19:58 AMIn and around Ferny Grove station and the adjacent TOD June 24.

p.s. The station has level boarding and renewed Translink branding as seen on the smart ticketing gates and ticket machines.

https://twitter.com/ozbob13/status/1542215697614655488

(This thread is also the closest thing we've got to a "general Ferny Line thread" as far as I can tell.)

The dewirement this week got me thinking.

There should be no reason we can't run trains just between Ferny Grove and Windsor stations in a pinch. All it takes is three things:

* electrical separation between there and Bowen Hills (this might already exist?)
* crossover points at Windsor (at least on the outbound side)
* bi-directional signalisation as appropriate

This would allow for maintained connections with the Northern Busway corridor even if something happens at Bowen Hills.

^ I think this would be ideal for most lines, so that trains could run to the station just before the junction e.g. Cleveland to Buranda, Ipswich/Rosewood to Milton (I think this might be already possible), Shorncliffe to Banyo (keeping in mind that Bindha is largely useless to the general public) etc.

Could reduce the volume of bustitution required for trackwork as well.

Need to install crossovers and substantial electrical work. Not cheap.

Milton has its own issues with the crossovers.

https://statements.qld.gov.au/statements/99130

Increased parking boost for Ferny Grove rail customers

10th November 2023

SENATOR THE HON ANTHONY CHISHOLM

FEDERAL ASSISTANT MINISTER FOR EDUCATION AND REGIONAL DEVELOPMENT

THE HON MARK BAILEY MP

MINISTER FOR TRANSPORT AND MAIN ROADS AND MINISTER FOR DIGITAL SERVICES

JOINT MEDIA RELEASE

A key milestone has been reached on the $22 million, jointly funded Ferny Grove Transit Oriented Development (TOD) park 'n' ride upgrade.

From today, public transport customers have access to a new multi-storey commuter car park with 905 parking spaces, completing Stage 1 of the project.

Access to and from the new multi-storey commuter car park will be via Ferny Way while upgraded lighting and CCTV cameras will bolster car park security.

Stage 2 of the project now commences to allow construction of the new retail and residential apartments, as well as the start of the connecting internal roads, new bus stop, Kiss 'n' Ride and taxi ranks.

Once completed, the park 'n' ride will be one of the largest in Southeast Queensland – with over 1,400 parking spaces.

Park 'n' ride sites in South East Queensland can be found at https://translink.com.au/travel-with-us/parking.

For more information on public transport, download the MyTransLink app, visit translink.com.au or phone 13 12 30.

Quotes attributable to Federal Assistant Minister for Education and Regional Development, Senator the Hon Anthony Chisholm:

"The Australian and Queensland governments are working together to invest in the infrastructure projects that will deliver what Ferny Grove residents need.

"This exciting project is jointly funded with a total investment of $22 million, comprising $12 million from the Australian Government and $10 million from the Queensland Government.

"Queensland's population is growing at a rapid rate, and we're committed to keeping up with that growth by investing in infrastructure projects like this across the state."

Quotes attributable to Queensland Transport and Main Roads Minister Mark Bailey:

"Park 'n' rides are a great way to encourage people onto public transport, which helps manage road congestion.

"The upgrade will improve parking conditions to benefit motorists, bike riders and public transport customers.

"Investing in park 'n' ride expansion projects supports the population growth in Southeast Queensland.

"Once finished the new TOD at Ferny Grove will create a local "neighbourhood village" that will provide food and beverage operators, a full-line supermarket, cinema complex, childcare facility, and medical practitioners, as well as increasing local housing supply with the construction of 82 new residential units in a location that has excellent rail and bus connections, reducing reliance on motor vehicles."

Quotes attributable to Member for Ferny Grove, Mark Furner:

"When I first campaigned to win the seat of Ferny Grove in 2014 the number one issue locals raised with me was insufficient parking at Ferny Grove Railway Station. I made increased parking at Ferny Grove my priority."

"Locals wanted more parking at Ferny Grove Station, and today, we have delivered more parking."

"People told me they wanted to use public transport more but didn't have enough parking at the station to be able to use it effectively. Today we have provided a huge boost to parking at Ferny Grove Station so people can better access public transport."

Quotes attributable to Honeycombes Managing Director Property Group, Peter Honeycombe

"We know that this facility has been eagerly awaited by residents of north-west Brisbane especially around Ferny Grove and we're delighted to open the Park 'n' Ride today and to deliver it as an asset to Transport and Main Roads.

"As everyone knows, the past few years have seen some of the most challenging conditions for the entire construction industry, but I want to pay tribute to our project partners Broad Construction, a subsidiary of CPB Contractors (part of the ASX-listed CIMIC Group) and Transport and Main Roads.

"Stage 1 has only been possible because of their great work and commitment, the collaboration with the Queensland Government and the support of the Federal Government.

"The local community of Ferny Grove has been very patient and supportive while this has been under construction, and we thank them for that support. The Park 'n' Ride is a signature asset for the people of Queensland in a fast growing region and we know it will make a big difference to people of Ferny Grove in their transport and travel.

"With Stage 1 now complete, work will start in the coming weeks on Stage 2 of the project with 'The Fernery' apartments and the new retail centre, which are all expected to be open in Q2 2025."

ENDS

Ferny Grove development is a TOD in name only. With 900 extra car spaces and 82 units it's a driving oriented development next to a train station.

It is important that stations are built to respond to both current and future land uses.

Historically, RBOT does not have a blanket ban stance on car parking at train stations - generally the case for car parking becomes weaker to justify as one approaches the CBD or the immediate context is already dense.

Station car parking can increase the PT catchment areas of train stations by 10x when compared against pure walk up. They offer an instantaneous frequency and direct route versus bus access (if bus access even exists).

Indeed, car parks can support a station being built in cases where the density is so low that walk up or buses cannot otherwise support it.

A main criticism of large P&R is that in QLD there is no parking charge. In Perth, charges are applied so that those who can use the bus are incentivised to do so.

Quote from: AJ Transport on November 13, 2023, 15:49:44 PMFerny Grove development is a TOD in name only. With 900 extra car spaces and 82 units it's a driving oriented development next to a train station.

It is an abomination!

Quote from: #Metro on November 13, 2023, 15:57:23 PMIt is important that stations are built to respond to both current and future land uses.

Historically, RBOT does not have a blanket ban stance on car parking at train stations - generally the case for car parking becomes weaker to justify as one approaches the CBD or the immediate context is already dense.

Station car parking can increase the PT catchment areas of train stations by 10x when compared against pure walk up. They offer an instantaneous frequency and direct route versus bus access (if bus access even exists).

Indeed, car parks can support a station being built in cases where the density is so low that walk up or buses cannot otherwise support it.

A main criticism of large P&R is that in QLD there is no parking charge. In Perth, charges are applied so that those who can use the bus are incentivised to do so.

With such great catchment coverage our public transport should be going through the roof...except it's doing the opposite!!

Well, perhaps an RBOT member with access to patronage counts can simply compare station patronage before and after the additional spaces open, and identify a suitable control station to reference against such as Enoggera, Shorncliffe or Redcliffe, or average patronage change across a basket of stations.

Then we will know.

Those figures add up to around $25k per carpark.

I'm not heavily opposed to P&Rs but they do raise questions about exploring charging (e.g. using your Go Card or credit/debit) and exploring walkability to bus stops and train stations as a cost per additional passenger comparison.

The local bus stop at my old place had really poor walkability. Some of the local streets didn't have footpaths, it usually took 5 minutes to cross the main road (two signals) and little shade. Would more people consider public transport of their walk was 5 minutes shorter (e.g. via pedestrian underpass) and would that be worthy of federal funds?

Quote from: Jonno on November 13, 2023, 16:56:49 PM

Quote from: #Metro on November 13, 2023, 15:57:23 PMIt is important that stations are built to respond to both current and future land uses.

Historically, RBOT does not have a blanket ban stance on car parking at train stations - generally the case for car parking becomes weaker to justify as one approaches the CBD or the immediate context is already dense.

Station car parking can increase the PT catchment areas of train stations by 10x when compared against pure walk up. They offer an instantaneous frequency and direct route versus bus access (if bus access even exists).

Indeed, car parks can support a station being built in cases where the density is so low that walk up or buses cannot otherwise support it.

A main criticism of large P&R is that in QLD there is no parking charge. In Perth, charges are applied so that those who can use the bus are incentivised to do so.

With such great catchment coverage our public transport should be going through the roof...except it's doing the opposite!!

Bulk of the patronage for the park and ride is coming from Samford way where PT coverage can not be provided or a railway line built as the patronage doesn't support it. Locals are also using it as PT is not a valid option.

 Another problem arises if you start charging for parking as you will see a bald hills/strathpine and Northgate repeat where people will drive for a cheaper fare. Petrie and other areas you don't see it as much due to the number of services and express running. Ferny grove does not have express services. Due to the flaw differences in lines this makes it very difficult to compare different lines as the data is flawed. A example is people boarding at Nudgee/banyo without touching on and interchanging to another service at Northgate and touching on either via same platform or walking across to P3 where there is a train every 3 mins. Banyo/Nudgee patronage is lower but Northgate patronage is higher. The same is repeated for MBRL services using Northgate P3 as a touch on location due to the high frequency. Another popular location to fare evade is Milton and Bowen Hills. Lots of data not being accounted for.

It should also be noted that gocard data has been historically flawed for years now due to the removal of onboard staff counters (to correspond with gocard data) and multiple fare evasion tactics/flaws/loopholes. It should only be used as a justification of a bare minimum in scopes.

Management will say fare evasion and loopholes are minimal but it's just rife and heavily abused.

Quote from: andrewr on November 13, 2023, 17:39:32 PMThose figures add up to around $25k per carpark.

I'm not heavily opposed to P&Rs but they do raise questions about exploring charging (e.g. using your Go Card or credit/debit) and exploring walkability to bus stops and train stations as a cost per additional passenger comparison.

The local bus stop at my old place had really poor walkability. Some of the local streets didn't have footpaths, it usually took 5 minutes to cross the main road (two signals) and little shade. Would more people consider public transport of their walk was 5 minutes shorter (e.g. via pedestrian underpass) and would that be worthy of federal funds?

The biggest challenge is that TMR think it is the only treatment!!  No cycling, no housing, no walkability!!

At the current rate they are going they will be able to build freeways next to the rail line like Metro likes as no one will live near them anyway.

Honestly if people from Samford want to catch public transport then build the multi-storey pnr in the heart of the Village.  There would be an uproar!!!

TOD and P&R are just different ways for passengers to spend their ~ 10 min access time to get to the station.

In some cases this will make sense, in others it will not. It depends on the site.

Why did the developer apparently build 85 units and not say many more around the station?

Maybe send an email to the developer and ask?

https://theferneryresidences.com.au/apartments/