RAIL - Back On Track Forum

New timetable for long-distance services has just been released for services past 17 July due to the electric tilt trains requiring scheduled maintenance.

Personally, I think the timetable is a joke.  Services other than the SOTO all have significantly increased timetable padding.  They've somehow done the impossible and made the Westlander even slower than it was.  Virtually eliminated the 11am Brisbane to Rockhampton service.  And no rail based replacement of the service, and seemingly no timetabled bus-based replacement either. 

Quote from: tazzer9 on May 17, 2023, 09:32:30 AMThey've somehow done the impossible and made the Westlander even slower than it was. 

By the looks of it, nearly (if not all) of that extra time is within the Brisbane suburban network. How on earth can it take 40 minutes (up to 50 minutes at the extreme on the Wed Charleville departure) to travel between Roma St and Corinda?

Quote from: Redrient on May 17, 2023, 17:21:40 PM

Quote from: tazzer9 on May 17, 2023, 09:32:30 AMThey've somehow done the impossible and made the Westlander even slower than it was. 

By the looks of it, nearly (if not all) of that extra time is within the Brisbane suburban network. How on earth can it take 40 minutes (up to 50 minutes at the extreme on the Wed Charleville departure) to travel between Roma St and Corinda?

It's because it has to wait for Roma street platform 10 to clear because they refuse to have a later depature from charleville and they refuse to use platforms 2/3 on the regular because that would require a bit of shunting at mayne to get it back in the right direction if they wanted to use 2/3 again.

I've been on a westlander that sat at Sherwood for 40 minutes just waiting for the 11am electric tilt to leave.  At that point just terminate it at either corinda, toowong or milton and tell people to catch a suburban train the rest of the way

Haven't looked at the timetable yet but they will be using different routes through the CBD/Exhibition along with existing services at P10. This will affect running in both directions. There are some upcoming CRR restrictions as well when the CRR mains are switched on. Some services will be held outside the wall or at Milton while they wait for their slot. There also won't be any more tilt train nose to tail terminations at Roma Street as a result of the diesels. On the fronts.

I present to you Sydney Central Station

Unfortunately, there is now little room to grow Roma Street.

The challenge/problem here is that our regional trains outside of the Tilts are from another era. These trains should be replaced immediately with tilts/regional trains and be able to stop at any of the platforms (not randomly but in a set pattern)

The Outback and inlander should run just to coast to link up with frequent north/south service.

Platform 10 can be reserved for The Spirt of Queensland being a premier service.

Quote from: tazzer9 on May 17, 2023, 09:32:30 AMNew timetable for long-distance services has just been released for services past 17 July due to the electric tilt trains requiring scheduled maintenance.

Personally, I think the timetable is a joke.  Services other than the SOTO all have significantly increased timetable padding.  They've somehow done the impossible and made the Westlander even slower than it was.   Virtually eliminated the 11am Brisbane to Rockhampton service.  And no rail based replacement of the service, and seemingly no timetabled bus-based replacement either. 

Timetables from 17th July 2023

https://www.queenslandrailtravel.com.au/Planyourtrip/timetable

QR: Download the full timetable for all services effective 17 July 2023 (pdf, 463kb)

Sorry. Can't run tilts everywhere. And the older rollingstock such as the SOTO is still more versatile and preferred by users over the tilts. Not to mention upper management killed off other services that the tilts are unable to provide such as the moto service, dining, freight and additional baggage services that used to run on the Sundlander and SOTO. In fact since the Sunlander was replaced with tilts long haul users satisfaction dropped. As too did family bookings. Once again due to upper management decisions.

New rollingstock would have to be acquired if the frequency were to increase. That would allow for DMU's to be bought with the same amenities as the SOTO currently has. That is of course if they actually improved frequency which is a pie in the sky with the current attitude regarding passenger rail.

^ Having to depart Roma Street and travel via Bowen Hills to head west can't help.

Quote from: HappyTrainGuy on May 18, 2023, 08:24:09 AMSorry. Can't run tilts everywhere. And the older rollingstock such as the SOTO is still more versatile and preferred by users over the tilts. Not to mention upper management killed off other services that the tilts are unable to provide such as the moto service, dining, freight and additional baggage services that used to run on the Sundlander and SOTO. In fact since the Sunlander was replaced with tilts long haul users satisfaction dropped. As too did family bookings. Once again due to upper management decisions.

Thought frequency was king!!!

Frequency hasn't always been king across the board. For short haul it is but long distance trip services has and will always trump frequency. Sleeper berths (singles and doubles in multiple configurations so not just what you know about now on the SOTO) instead of a rail bed that you can hear everyone snoring at night along with listening to everyone's conversation during the day with a smaller space to move around and less privacy. Club car with proper drinks. Dining cars with tables that you could have meals for 4 on instead of a sideways table that struggles to fit a laptop on it. If you didn't want to have it there you could take it back to your room and have it there. Yes you had a proper room. Proper food being served. You could drive your car on, sleep in a berth over night and drive off at the other end. Slowly over time refurbs, "unifying" the rollingstock, rollingstock withdrawal and cost cutting has slowly dwindled down and removed these services. Just like 8 car ICE trains with 3 power pairs. Just part of history.

sad sad indictment of the lack of regional rollingstock or any interest form TMR in long distance fright or passenger rail.  But have we got a freeway upgrade for you.

Email QR Travel 2 June 2023

QuoteOur timetables are changing

Our long-distance timetable - for Tilt Train, Spirit of Queensland, Westlander and Spirit of the Outback services - is changing from 17 July 2023.

Tilt Trains, like all vehicles, require regular maintenance. Along with necessary compliance works, our two electric Tilt Trains are due to undergo essential traction power upgrades to ensure they can run reliably and safely into the future. This work requires longer time off the tracks than the usual day-to-day maintenance we undertake.

The Tilt Trains will undergo maintenance one at a time, to ensure we can offer you as many services as possible while works are underway. Our team has worked hard to develop a timetable that can offer as many long-distance train services as possible to support our customers. The new timetable is expected to be in place for up to 14 months.

Queensland Parliament E-Petition

https://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/Work-of-the-Assembly/Petitions/Petition-Details?id=3906

TILT TRAIN SERVICES

TO: The Honourable the Speaker and Members of the Legislative Assembly of Queensland
Queensland citizens draws to the attention of the House the reduction of train services between Bundaberg, Maryborough, Hervey Bay and Brisbane. Elderly residents of the Wide Bay rely heavily on regular train services to Brisbane to access specialist medical treatment not available locally.

Your petitioners, therefore, request the House to do all in its power to ensure the replacement of each lost return train service with wheelchair accessible busses as a matter of urgency.

Queensland Parliament

https://documents.parliament.qld.gov.au/tableOffice/questionsAnswers/2023/688-2023.pdf

Question on Notice
No. 688
Asked on 25 May 2023

MR S MINNIKIN ASKED MINISTER FOR TRANSPORT AND MAIN ROADS AND MINISTER
FOR DIGITIAL SERVICES (HON M BAILEY)

QUESTION:

With reference to advice on the Queensland Rail Travel website that tilt train bookings are not
available past 16 July 2023 because 'Queensland Rail is reviewing the required maintenance
program for the Tilt Train services'—
Will the Minister advise of any maintenance issues of the tilt train that may prevent continued
running to the existing timetable?

ANSWER:

I thank the Member for Chatsworth for the question.

Queensland Rail operates two electric and three diesel Tilt Trains.

The Electric Tilt Trains are now due for regulated maintenance works to ensure their ongoing
safety and reliability. The trains entered service in 1998 and underwent a similar mid-life
overhaul in 2015.

Queensland Rail's North Coast line train timetable which incorporates the Tilt Train, Spirit of
Queensland and Spirit of the Outback services will temporarily change from 17 July 2023 to
accommodate for these essential maintenance works.

These essential works require the Electric Tilt Trains to come offline for between six and seven
months per vehicle (up to 14 months total) to allow for intensive maintenance to the traction and
braking systems, carriage couplings and other mechanical improvements.

While one train is undergoing maintenance, Queensland Rail will continue to operate
Rockhampton Tilt Trains, Spirit of Queensland and Spirit of the Outback Services, and has
amended timetables to facilitate return day trips to Brisbane four out of five week-days between
Bundaberg and Brisbane.

Queensland Rail economy seats on the Spirit of Queensland (Diesel services) are usually sold at
a higher price point than electric tilt trains because they provide a premium service to customers.
With electric services on a reduced timetable, Queensland Rail is price matching economy seats
between Rockhampton and Brisbane across all services at the lowest rate.

The temporary timetable is live on Queensland Rail's Travel website with customers able to book
their journey onboard services beyond 16 July 2023. The full Electric Tilt Train timetable will return
by end of September 2024.

Safety is Queensland Rail's number one priority, and these works are vital to delivering safe and
reliable trains for customers to travel on.

^


Railmaps @railmaps

Queensland Rail's new timetable for long distance passenger trains starts July 17th, and there are a few interesting changes.

First the good: The Brisbane to Cairns Spirit of Queensland is resuming 5 days per week after having run only 4 days per week for far too long. (1 of 9)

The SoQ's running times are the same, but they have been shifted slightly – Northbound, instead of 3:45pm out of Brisbane and 4:30pm next day into Cairns, it's now 1:45pm out of Brisbane and 2:30pm next day into Cairns with Tuesday being the additional day run. (2 of 9)

Southbound instead of 8:35pm out of Cairns and 9:20am next day into Brisbane, the Spirit of Queensland will from July 17th leave Cairns an hour later at 9:35am and arrive Brisbane 10:20am next day with the extra run leaving Cairns on Thursdays. (3 of 9)

What's happening to the Rockhampton Tilt Train though? Currently there are 8 trips northbound weekly Brisbane to Rockhampton (7 southbound), plus another 4 (5 southbound) Brisbane -Bundaberg. These will be reduced to just a 5 days per week Brisbane - Rockhampton service. (4 of 9)

There will be no southbound Rocky-Brisbane services on Sundays or Wednesdays and no northbound on Weds or Sats. Not only that, this 5 days per week train will run to a slower timetable, taking 20 to 30 minutes longer than in the current timetable. (5 of 9)

The Spirit of the Outback will still run twice weekly but is re-timed slightly to take 30 minutes longer to reach Longreach on Wednesdays, and the Saturday departure from Brisbane will now depart later in the afternoon. The southbound trains will run two hours earlier. (6 of 9)

The Westlander will continue to run two days per week between Brisbane and Charleville, and the times are unchanged except for the westbound on Thursdays which will depart Brisbane 20 minutes earlier, though it still arrives Charleville at the same time. (7 of 9)

The Inlander between Townsville and Mount Isa, The Gulflander between Normanton and Croyon and the Cairns to Kuranda trains are unchanged at two days per week, one train per week and two trains per day respectively. (8 of 9)

All of this is based on the the current Queensland Rail timetable in operation up to July 16 which can be found here and the new timetable effective from July 17 is which is here https://t.co/okU3duEAdM (9 of 9)

Frankly, this overall service reduction is embarrassing.

Under-resourced, lack of long term forward planning.

 

Sent to all outlets:

Sixty-five new trains - confirmed

1st July 2023

RAIL Back On Track welcomes confirmation that Downer Maryborough is now ' locked in ' to deliver 65 six car trains for use on the SEQ rail network, with the first train to be delivered in 2026 (1).  This is after the commissioning of Cross River Rail, expect limited opportunities for improved peak train frequency until these new trains are in service.

We note the particular attention to meeting the needs of all passengers. The addition of ' Train Boarding Bridges ' and electronic levelling will improve access to and from the trains with varying platform heights and gaps. The non DDA compliance of the New Generation Rollingstock trains has been an important lesson for all involved. We expect this aspect of the new trains will be done right this time.

The State Government also needs to reflect on the unsatisfactory situation with long distance rail services in Queensland.  The service cuts from the 17th July 2023 due to the necessary maintenance of the Electric Tilt Trains (2, 3), highlights sadly the lack of suitable rollingstock for long distance rail passenger services in Queensland.  At a time when long distance rail services demand is increasing and rail travel should be encouraged, there is a reduction in service - a perverse outcome. The Long-distance passenger rail business case (4) should be expanded to include increased services between Brisbane and Maryborough, Bundaberg and Rockhampton, as well as the Inlander, Spirit of the Outback and the Westlander.

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

References:

1. Maryborough's Downer locked in as Queensland's rail manufacturing powerhouse 30th June 2023
https://statements.qld.gov.au/statements/98096

2. QR Long Distance Passenger Services - from 17th July 2023
https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=15242.0

3. Queensland Parliament: Question on Notice No. 688
https://documents.parliament.qld.gov.au/tableOffice/questionsAnswers/2023/688-2023.pdf

4. Long-distance passenger rail business case
https://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/projects/long-distance-passenger-rail-business-case

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Queensland Parliament

https://documents.parliament.qld.gov.au/tableOffice/questionsAnswers/2023/765-2023.pdf

Question on Notice
No. 765
Asked on 14 June 2023

MR S BENNETT ASKED MINISTER FOR TRANSPORT AND MAIN ROADS AND MINISTER
FOR DIGITIAL SERVICES (HON M BAILEY)

QUESTION:

With reference to the reduction in regional train services between regional towns and Brisbane
that are not being replaced with bus services—
Will the Minister advise how Bundaberg and Burnett residents will travel to Brisbane for medical
appointments on days when trains are not operating?

ANSWER:

I thank the Member for Burnett for the question.

Queensland Rail's North Coastline train timetable incorporating the Tilt Train, Spirit of
Queensland and Spirit of the Outback services will temporarily change from 17 July 2023 to
enable essential, statutory maintenance works on its Electric Tilt Trains, to ensure safety and
reliability. The works require the Electric Tilt Trains to come offline for up to 14 months to allow
for intensive maintenance to the traction and braking systems, carriage couplings and other
mechanical improvements.

A morning and evening train (day trip return) will be servicing Wide Bay every weekday, except
Wednesday. Hospital and Health Services (HHSs) have been provided a copy of the new
timetable and I understand HHS Patient Travel Offices will be working with patients, to manage
bookings, as required.

Quote from: ozbob on June 09, 2023, 23:16:11 PMQueensland Parliament E-Petition

https://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/Work-of-the-Assembly/Petitions/Petition-Details?id=3906

TILT TRAIN SERVICES

TO: The Honourable the Speaker and Members of the Legislative Assembly of Queensland
Queensland citizens draws to the attention of the House the reduction of train services between Bundaberg, Maryborough, Hervey Bay and Brisbane. Elderly residents of the Wide Bay rely heavily on regular train services to Brisbane to access specialist medical treatment not available locally.

Your petitioners, therefore, request the House to do all in its power to ensure the replacement of each lost return train service with wheelchair accessible busses as a matter of urgency.

Response to the Tilt Train services E-Petition presented to the Queensland Parliament

> https://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/apps/E-Petitions/Home/DownloadResponse/ce072e98-0edc-4110-9ba0-603037a702a8

Electric tilts would be better off being retired and nextgen trains embraced.....

Quote from: SteelPan on November 01, 2023, 16:29:12 PMElectric tilts would be better off being retired and nextgen trains embraced.....

Not enough trains for long-term maintenance or mid-life upgrades is simply incompetence on the governments part.  It certainly was when the Defence Force had no choppers (or some other aircraft) to go off to combat.

Quote from: Jonno on November 01, 2023, 17:23:40 PM

Quote from: SteelPan on November 01, 2023, 16:29:12 PMElectric tilts would be better off being retired and nextgen trains embraced.....

Not enough trains for long-term maintenance or mid-life upgrades is simply incompetence on the governments part.  It certainly was when the Defence Force had no choppers (or some other aircraft) to go off to combat.

There were substantial plans to boost the tilt train fleet along with new alignments on the ncl - which originally spawned Toowoomba tilt trail alignment and the Caboolture-Nambour quad but it was planned at the wrong time when all the railway men had left and their positions filled by "management" and "yes men".

Anyway the tilts are in better nick than most of the fleet and the only thing they lack is cab safety standards. Apart from that they don't really need replacing other than refurbs.