RAIL - Back On Track Forum

      

Quote from: nathandavid88 on May 10, 2023, 12:34:15 PMJust a small, random question based on my reading of the below article in InQLD this morning. Greg Hallam mentions in the article an interesting name for the Sunshine Coast Line that I've not heard before:

"The Sunshine Coast heavy rail line to the new Maroochydore CBD, the so-called Cairnscross Corridor, will still be being spruiked, if not much else."

Now, is/was "Cairncross Corridor" an actual name for line, or has he just misheard "CAMCOS" as "Cairncross"?

As a bit of history, the Cairncross Family were an pioneering family of Brisbane whose name is probably best associated with the Mary Cairncross Scenic Reserve at Maleny, but the family also has an association with the Colmslie area, including the Cairncross Dockyard.

https://inqld.com.au/opinion/2023/05/10/two-elections-before-the-olympics-premier-must-decide-if-its-a-marathon-or-a-sprint/

It's just a mis-speak.
He meant CAMCOS.

Perhaps we could consider a rail line up to Maleny and along the range?   

MONTCOS

QUESTION: For how long will the Federal Government keep a sum of $1.6 billion on its budget books for a ghost construction project to which the State Government has not committed a brass razoo? So far, they each have contributed $3 million* to prepare a business case only. If at the end of that time (December) Ms Palaszczuk and Co. don't want to contribute or play silly buggers to try and get the feds to pay the majority of the build cost, what's to stop Albo saying 'you had your chance' and he walks away with the $1.6 billion and spends it elsewhere where the new project he would fund to create construction jobs, revitalise a region and create something positive? In such a scenario, Palaszczuk and Bailey would be right dorks, left standing at the (Beerwah) station.

*Correction to original post

^ possible scenario for sure. 

Even the name ' Direct Sunshine Coast Rail Line ' is a deliberate manipulation to obfuscate IMHO.

It is difficult to have much confidence or trust in the Government or DTMR these days ...

    

Sunshine Coast News --> Proposed rail line's future up in the air with mixed support from governments

QuoteThe Federal Government has recommitted to building a rail line through the Sunshine Coast's busiest areas, but the State Government remains hesitant to follow suit and won't make a decision until next year.

Last week's Federal Budget reaffirmed a $1.6 billion funding commitment to the Direct Sunshine Coast Rail Line, a proposed rail corridor between Beerwah and Maroochydore that could take the strain off the region's rapidly growing population and congestion.

Both levels of government are doing the groundwork for the DSCRL, with a combined $6 million planning project.

The Federal Government recently announced that major infrastructure projects are under review, casting some doubt over the proposal. ...

^ as reported the State Government has been reluctant to commit beyond the planning phase and won't make a call on it until at least next year.

A spokesperson for the Department of Transport and Main Roads said it wanted more details before dedicating more funds.

"(But) the Queensland Government is awaiting completion of the DSC business case to inform a government investment decision.

"An updated cost estimate, identification of the preferred option and construction staging will be confirmed at the end of the planning stage in 2024 to inform any government investment decisions."

Quote from: ozbob on May 19, 2023, 12:09:52 PM^ as reported the State Government has been reluctant to commit beyond the planning phase and won't make a call on it until at least next year.

A spokesperson for the Department of Transport and Main Roads said it wanted more details before dedicating more funds.

"(But) the Queensland Government is awaiting completion of the DSC business case to inform a government investment decision.

"An updated cost estimate, identification of the preferred option and construction staging will be confirmed at the end of the planning stage in 2024 to inform any government investment decisions."

I thought the business case was to be completed by the end of this year.

Here is an extract from the Sunshine Coast News, dated 19 May:

The Federal Government has recommitted to building a rail line through the Sunshine Coast's busiest areas, but the State Government remains hesitant to follow suit and won't make a decision until next year.

Last week's Federal Budget reaffirmed a $1.6 billion funding commitment to the Direct Sunshine Coast Rail Line, a proposed rail corridor between Beerwah and Maroochydore that could take the strain off the region's rapidly growing population and congestion.

Both levels of government are doing the groundwork for the DSCRL, with a combined $6 million planning project.

The Federal Government recently announced that major infrastructure projects are under review, casting some doubt over the proposal. But it showed some willingness to follow through with the DSCRL by retaining the $1.6 billion commitment in the budget.

The State Government has been reluctant to commit beyond the planning phase and won't make a call on it until at least next year.

A spokesperson for the Department of Transport and Main Roads said it wanted more details before dedicating more funds.

"The Queensland Government, in partnership with the Australian Government, is planning the Direct Sunshine Coast Rail Line, a new rail line between Beerwah and Maroochydore," they said.
"Tuesday's Federal Budget documents reaffirmed the Australian Government's $1.6 billion commitment towards the project.

"(But) the Queensland Government is awaiting completion of the DSC business case to inform a government investment decision.

"An updated cost estimate, identification of the preferred option and construction staging will be confirmed at the end of the planning stage in 2024 to inform any government investment decisions."
Federal Member for Fisher Andrew Wallace said time was of the essence.

"It has been announced they (State Govt) will no longer make a decision until 2024 – that's just eight short years from when the Olympic and Paralympic Games are due to arrive here in South-East Queensland," he said.

"We now have no margin for error for that project to be delivered for the Sunshine Coast in time for the biggest sporting event in the world.

"It is unforgivable that we are facing a situation where this great project may not go ahead. The deal could have been sealed 12 months ago if State Labor matched Federal Coalition's $1.6 billion, but they didn't. State Labor kicked it into the long grass."

The DSCRL is a proposed 37km rail extension between Beerwah and Maroochydore, which was expected to increase public transport opportunities.

The department spokesperson said it would provide more efficient transport.

"If constructed, DSC would provide a direct rail connection between the Sunshine Coast and Brisbane, providing congestion-free and faster public transport journeys between these two key centres."

The line would also feature new stations along the corridor; park 'n' rides and associated facilities to increase accessibility; active transport provisions along the corridor to improve safety and encourage these transport modes; and maintenance access, stabling and operational facilities.

"The planning will review the preserved corridor and consider refinements to the 37km alignment and station locations between Beerwah and Maroochydore, considering safe rail operations and maintenance, passenger demand, economic opportunities for the region, and integration with the North Coast Line and broader transport network," the spokesperson said.

"The planning will also investigate construction staging and timeframes for the rail line considering market capacity and interfaces with other major transport projects planned for the region."

The DSCRL is part of a broader range of proposed upgrades to the region's transport infrastructure including the Sunshine Coast Public Transport project; Beerburrum to Nambour Rail Upgrade; Kawana Motorway; Mooloolah River Interchange; and the Caloundra Road/Kawana Way Link Road/Bells Creek Arterial Road intersection.

The department spokesperson could not confirm whether properties would be resumed to make way for the proposed DSCRL.

.

^ article

Quote from: ozbob on May 19, 2023, 12:01:22 PMSunshine Coast News --> Proposed rail line's future up in the air with mixed support from governments

QuoteThe Federal Government has recommitted to building a rail line through the Sunshine Coast's busiest areas, but the State Government remains hesitant to follow suit and won't make a decision until next year.

Last week's Federal Budget reaffirmed a $1.6 billion funding commitment to the Direct Sunshine Coast Rail Line, a proposed rail corridor between Beerwah and Maroochydore that could take the strain off the region's rapidly growing population and congestion.

Both levels of government are doing the groundwork for the DSCRL, with a combined $6 million planning project.

The Federal Government recently announced that major infrastructure projects are under review, casting some doubt over the proposal. ...

Sunshine Coast News --> Your say: development plans and rail delays

QuoteNeglected again

It is extremely disappointing to read that the future of the Sunshine Coast rail is in jeopardy because of cost overruns in other areas such as the Cross River Rail and the Suncorp Stadium upgrade.

To expect Sunshine Coast residents to bear the brunt of these overruns is unfair. We would like to be able to travel to Olympic events in Brisbane and elsewhere without resorting to already congested roads.

At present, Sunshine Coasters have to travel at least 30 minutess to get to hinterland train stations. What other towns in Queensland as large as Caloundra, Mooloolaba and Maroochydore do not have railway stations? ...

So the DSCRL planning study will be finalised sometime in 2024.



 

( https://www.yoursay-projects.tmr.qld.gov.au/direct-sunshine-coast-rail-line )

Then the Government of the day has to make a decision to proceed or otherwise.

Then a full business case must be prepared, and then submitted (normally) through the new Infrastructure Australia process if Federal funding is to be forthcoming.

So probably 2026 before that outcome is known. Then has to be budgeted etc.

Frankly there isn't enough time to start and finish construction even to Caloundra before 2032 IMHO.

Sorry folks, this ain't happening anytime soon.

(Which makes the failure to duplicate through to Landsborough even more problematical than it already is).

Quote from: ozbob on May 25, 2023, 13:40:55 PMSo the DSCRL planning study will be finalised sometime in 2024.



 

( https://www.yoursay-projects.tmr.qld.gov.au/direct-sunshine-coast-rail-line )

Then the Government of the day has to make a decision to proceed or otherwise.

Then a full business case must be prepared, and then submitted (normally) through the new Infrastructure Australia process if Federal funding is to be forthcoming.

So probably 2026 before that outcome is known. Then has to be budgeted etc.

Frankly there isn't enough time to start and finish construction even to Caloundra before 2032 IMHO.

Sorry folks, this ain't happening anytime soon.

(Which makes the failure to duplicate through to Landsborough even more problematical than it already is).

We of the never never

https://twitter.com/7newssc/status/1661286905869107201?

I wonder if Sunshine Coast Mayor Mark Jamieson knows that the DSCL won't go to the Maroochydore Town Centre (as planned), but will stop short at Birtinya? He is in a position to kick bottoms.

Quote from: Stillwater on May 25, 2023, 17:59:32 PMI wonder if Sunshine Coast Mayor Mark Jamieson knows that the DSCL won't go to the Maroochydore Town Centre (as planned), but will stop short at Birtinya? He is in a position to kick bottoms.

He does now.

The situation whereby it will take 42 years to begin planning and then to complete construction of rail improvements to the Sunshine Coast (realignment and duplication to Nambour and spur to Maroochydore Birtinya) must represent the biggest public policy failure in Queensland's history. More attention is paid to the Bradfield Scheme (turning coastal rivers inland) than to heavy rail improvements on the Sunshine Coast.

Petition


 

https://queensland.typeform.com/GetOnBoardRail

Quote from: ozbob on May 26, 2023, 11:24:11 AMPetition


 

https://queensland.typeform.com/GetOnBoardRail

Signed.

https://twitter.com/ozbob13/status/1661927356892852224

I support the push for passenger rail into Maroochydore.
I spoke to Ch 7 Sunshine Coast this afternoon, and explained why.

Good to see the Sunshine Coast LNP MPs collaborating on this.  Excellent video.

Well done and thank you.

Does this harvest your info to an LNP database like the Lord Mayor's Kenmore Letter.

Probably, which is why I'm skeptical about it.

Parliamentary petitions are better (but equally useless).

https://twitter.com/7NewsSC/status/1662010187795030016

Isn't the DSCL to Maroochydore supposed to be threaded through the Mooloolah River Interchange?

https://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/projects/sunshine-motorway-mooloolah-river-interchange-upgrade-stage-1

^
Mooloolah River Interchange flythrough

Rail is mentioned not even once.



On the project web page at https://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/projects/sunshine-motorway-mooloolah-river-interchange-upgrade-stage-1  DSCRL is given an indirect reference.

QuoteIntegration with public transport planning

The department is planning a Sunshine Coast transport network that supports multiple modes, including public transport. The needs and impacts of future projects such as the Direct Sunshine Coast Rail Line, Kawana Way (Mooloolah River Interchange to Kawana Way Link Road), the Buderim–Mooloolaba interchange to Maroochy Boulevard, Sunshine Coast Public Transport and Draft Southern Sunshine Coast Public Transport Strategy projects will be considered as part of design work for the Mooloolah River Interchange Upgrade.

More evidence that they are not serious about heavy rail to Maroochydore.

https://twitter.com/MarkBaileyMP/status/1661996448756686849



Well, we noticed the typo Minister for Digital Services 

"Digital services" does that mean he's actually the Minister for Social Media now, hilarious!! 

Quote from: ozbob on May 27, 2023, 04:10:50 AM^
Mooloolah River Interchange flythrough

Rail is mentioned not even once.



On the project web page at https://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/projects/sunshine-motorway-mooloolah-river-interchange-upgrade-stage-1  DSCRL is given an indirect reference.

QuoteIntegration with public transport planning

The department is planning a Sunshine Coast transport network that supports multiple modes, including public transport. The needs and impacts of future projects such as the Direct Sunshine Coast Rail Line, Kawana Way (Mooloolah River Interchange to Kawana Way Link Road), the Buderim–Mooloolaba interchange to Maroochy Boulevard, Sunshine Coast Public Transport and Draft Southern Sunshine Coast Public Transport Strategy projects will be considered as part of design work for the Mooloolah River Interchange Upgrade.

More evidence that they are not serious about heavy rail to Maroochydore.

That interchange looks horrible. Great that their adding a path, but who's going to want to use it when the environment looks like that.

Quote from: ozbob on May 27, 2023, 04:51:55 AMhttps://twitter.com/MarkBaileyMP/status/1661996448756686849



Well, we noticed the typo Minister for Digital Services 

This isnt even true. The previous Federal Gov (which was LNP) committed to funding the Extension. It was Labor who didnt play ball.

The possibility exists that TMR has decided to stop the DSCL at Birtinya and designed the Mooloolah River Interchange as an obstacle in the extended track alignment to Maroochydore (rather than including a future railway line through the interchange) because getting the railway line past that obstacle is a future business case separate from what is being contemplated currently.

^ Mr Bailey obviously is rattled judging by his social media post. His wording shows that he wants to play the politics of the DSCL rather than place people, communities and commuters at the heart of his thinking.

Quote from: RowBro on May 27, 2023, 10:40:53 AM

Quote from: ozbob on May 27, 2023, 04:51:55 AMhttps://twitter.com/MarkBaileyMP/status/1661996448756686849



Well, we noticed the typo Minister for Digital Services 

This isnt even true. The previous Federal Gov (which was LNP) committed to funding the Extension. It was Labor who didnt play ball.

The Minister is using his usual spin and convoluting state with federal matters.
His argument is that the budget for the $1.6 billion under the Coalition was never passed by the Parliament - so the money doesn't exist. That said the incoming Labor government, to their credit, said that they would honour the $1.6 billion which kind of puts paid to the Minister's assertion.

There was no funding for the Sunshine Coast (CAMCOS) rail line under the Newman government single term.
That said, the Newman govt did promise $532m for rail duplication to Landsborough, but lost the election.

I asked Hon Catherine King where the ($1.6b) money was as I could not find it mentioned in the (Labor) budget papers.
This was her response.

Catherine King MP
@CatherineKingMP
·
Oct 26, 2022
Replying to
@Jeffrey_Addison
The money remains in the budget. First appears in last year of forwards as realistically it will take time to do. We will work with the QLD a state Government on business case and actual costs of the project.

I see you had a discussion with the Minister. 
What he fails to say is that his party has already promised rail to Maroochydore once in the past.
One of a long list of failed rail promises by state red team.
Blue state or federal team, to their credit, have never broken a promise on our rail.
I pay tribute to federal red team for honouring the $1.6b rail commitment.
I believe that this will survive the current 90 day infrastructure review and I believe that the feds understand the importance of this project for the 2032 Olympics and for the future.

Quote from: Fares_Fair on May 27, 2023, 16:41:43 PMI see you had a discussion with the Minister. 
What he fails to say is that his party has already promised rail to Maroochydore once in the past.
One of a long list of failed rail promises by state red team.
Blue state or federal team, to their credit, have never broken a promise on our rail.
I pay tribute to federal red team for honouring the $1.6b rail commitment.
I believe that this will survive the current 90 day infrastructure review and I believe that the feds understand the imporatance of this project for the 2032 Olympics and for the future.

Indeed. I'm so over politicians on all sides of the aisle using character attacks as reasonable arguments. It's so juvenile and something you'd expect from highschoolers, not elected officials. At least he responded to me with some, albeit misleading, justification, but he should just cut the crap and respond with what his government is doing in the first place. The line that the Newman Government did nothing, while true, doesn't say much since they were only in for 3 years. Last time I checked the first term of the current Government was also radio silence regarding the CAMCOS extension. As you also brought up, he conveniently fails to mention that it was the Labor Government who promised it and then scrapped it in the 2000's. It's Labor who has been in 90% of the time (since Joh), not the LNP. Instead of trying to do what's best for the people, the current mob of politicians only seem to be interested in playing petty politics with the livelihoods of Queenslanders. It's a wonder Cross River Rail ever got off the drawing board.

Sunshine Coast News --> Five local MPs push for rail line commitment but State Government focused on planning for now

QuoteFive of the Sunshine Coast's seven state MPs have joined forces to call on the Queensland Government to fund a rail line from Beerwah to Maroochydore.

The local members of the Opposition have urged State Labor to fully commit to the proposed 37km line, by matching the Federal Labor Government's $1.6 billion funding commitment.

But the State Government recently told Sunshine Coast News an informed decision on funding and the line would be made after a planning phase is completed next year.

The LNP quintet also launched a petition, Get On Board Rail, for people to show their support of the proposed Direct Sunshine Coast Rail Line. ...

"We need to work out if the population is big enough to have enough demand based on scientifically proven "voodoo" assumptions on the % of people who will catch public transport".

Oh that means the rest of the demand need a BIG NEW FREEWAY!  Let's start digging today!!

Quote"We need to work out if the population is big enough to have enough demand based on scientifically proven "voodoo" assumptions on the % of people who will catch public transport".

Oh that means the rest of the demand need a BIG NEW FREEWAY!  Let's start digging today!!

If a passenger has a choice between a faster door-to-door journey and a slower door-to-door journey, then the one that offers the faster journey will be the one that they are most likely to take. This is mode-independent, and this theory also works between services that are of the same mode (e.g. a slow bus taking a squiggly route versus a faster one leaving the same origin and arriving at the same destination.).

This is why I think the longer regional commuter SEQ train lines need to be built to support a much higher average speed standard of 160-200 km/hr. The additional speed compensates for the slower access time and wait times that PT has but cars don't have. It acts to reduce the time gap.

Also, science does not 'prove' anything. It only operates to disprove potential explanations by showing they are inconsistent or incomplete with observable, known facts. I will take this up in another thread rather than here.

The main blockade IMO with the Sunshine Coast is that it is seen as Safe Blue Team Territory. Spending money there has little relative political benefit versus other areas like marginal seat electorates on the electorate map.