RAIL - Back On Track Forum

Just getting the DSCRL (aka CAMCOS) to Caloundra would be an achievement in itself considering the timeframes.  Getting to Maroochydore in one hit would be a miracle.

Quote from: Arnz on March 15, 2023, 09:29:01 AMJust getting the DSCRL (aka CAMCOS) to Caloundra would be an achievement in itself considering the timeframes.  Getting to Maroochydore in one hit would be a miracle.

......or logical, smart, environmentally/socially and financially sustainable and leading practice transport planning. In QLD they are the same thing.

Concur.

Quote from: Arnz on March 15, 2023, 09:29:01 AMJust getting the DSCRL (aka CAMCOS) to Caloundra would be an achievement in itself considering the timeframes.  Getting to Maroochydore in one hit would be a miracle.

Couriermail --> Calls for Palaszczuk government to release Gabba redevelopment costs $

QuoteThe state government is under pressure to release costs associated with the redevelopment of the Gabba, after a top Queensland bureaucrat said the source of a $1bn figure was not from a business case, but 'a press release'.

The Palaszczuk government is under pressure to release costs associated with the Gabba redevelopment after the Auditor-General told a parliamentary committee the original $1bn figure came "from a press release".

Deputy Leader Jarrod Bleijie moved a motion in parliament on Wednesday attempting to force the government to table "all business cases, studies, reviews, assessments or similar work relating to the cost of any redevelopment of the Gabba". ...

' ... It comes after Queensland Auditor-General Brendan Worrall told the State Development and Regional Industries Committee this week that he believed there was never "a business case supporting the billion dollars. I think you'll find the source of that was from a press release". ... '

Why am I not suprised!  More murky stuff ... 

https://twitter.com/ozbob13/status/1635989476660097024

Queensland Parliament Hansard

https://documents.parliament.qld.gov.au/events/han/2023/2023_03_16_DAILY.pdf

Questions Without Notice

Olympic and Paralympic Games, Infrastructure

Mr HEALY: My question is of the Deputy Premier, Minister for State Development, Infrastructure,
Local Government and Planning and Minister Assisting the Premier on Olympic and Paralympic Games
Infrastructure. Could the Deputy Premier advise the House on the Palaszczuk government's
commitment to Olympic and Paralympic Games infrastructure and is the Deputy Premier aware of any
other approaches?

Dr MILES: I thank the member for Cairns for his question. I know that he shares the Palaszczuk
government's vision that hosting the Brisbane 2032 Olympic and Paralympic Games should deliver a
real lasting legacy for every part of the state, including in Cairns. Cairns will benefit from a major
upgrade of Barlow Park which will be the home of the Olympics in Cairns. A tourism city like Cairns
stands to benefit from having an upgraded stadium. The extra events and sports that they will be able
to attract will attract people to visit Cairns. Imagine the other benefits that will accrue to Cairns from the
global recognition, the global promotion, that will come from the Brisbane 2032 Games. Imagine the
number of people who will visit for the games but will want to stay on to see those amazing world-leading
natural assets that we have in the state's Far North: the reef, the Daintree, Kuranda, just to name a
few.

I can advise the House that, like everything, the cost of Barlow Park has gone up since 2020, but
because we want to deliver it we will fund it. Those opposite will cut it—just like the Toowoomba Sports
Ground. The cost of the Toowoomba Sports Ground, a major permanent upgrade that Toowoomba
needs and deserves, has gone up since 2020 and those opposite will cut it. The people of Townsville
are lucky we have already built their stadium. It is too late for those opposite to cut the Townsville
stadium, the home of the Olympic and Paralympic Games in Townsville that those opposite opposed.

Last night they opposed the Brisbane 2032 Olympic and Paralympic Games. We know they tried
their very best to cancel the Gold Coast Commonwealth Games, even going so far as to get legal advice
as to whether they could get out of the host contract. They have no vision for our state. They have no
ambition for our state. They do not want to see our state on the world stage. I have to say that today I
agree with the Courier-Mail: they have no vision. All they do is whinge and whine. All they want to do is
to cut and to sell, whereas on this side of the House we have bold ambitions for our state because
Queensland deserves the legacy that it will get from hosting the 2023 Olympic and Paralympic Games.

Couriermail --> London 2012 chief slams Palaszczuk's Olympic Games power grab $

QuoteThe Queenslander knighted for his work as chief executive of the 2012 London Olympics delivery authority has expressed alarm over what's happening here ahead of the 2032 Games.

The Queenslander knighted for his work as chief executive of the 2012 London Olympics delivery authority has expressed alarm over Annastacia Palaszczuk's Brisbane Games power grab.

"It's not going to work, is it," said Sir David Higgins, referring to the Queensland government's move to abandon plans for an independent Olympic Co-ordination Authority and instead put the Premier's department in charge.

He said Olympic planning had to be done at arm's length from the government with bipartisan political support. And the taxpayer who had to pay for it had to be told what was happening every step of the way. ...

====

https://twitter.com/ozbob13/status/1636732468853358593

Couriermail --> 'Don't leave us behind': Qld Councils' Olympic plea $

QuoteQueensland's local councils have urged the state government to commit to sharing the economic benefits of the 2032 Games across the state, with concerns that some regions will be "left behind".

Almost one in five councils held concerns that the 2032 Olympic and Paralympic Games would deliver no benefit for their communities, a report from the Local Government Association of Queensland shows.

The On Your Marks: Queensland local government and the road to 2032 survey also found a lack of infrastructure investment, particularly outside South East Queensland in the lead-up to 2032 was a major concern. ...

https://twitter.com/ozbob13/status/1636734196864684032

Couriermail --> Brisbane 2032: Forum to shape the Games impact $

QuoteThe Brisbane 2032 Olympic and Paralympic Games Legacy Forum will see sporting stars joining community, business and youth leaders to help shape the Brisbane 2032 Legacy Plan.

Thousands of Queenslanders have shared their dreams for a long-lasting legacy following the Brisbane 2032 Olympic and Paralympic Games, with the environment, infrastructure and boosting physical activity all taking centre stage.

This week the city will host 500 of the country's best and brightest minds for the Brisbane 2032 Olympic and Paralympic Games Legacy Forum, with sporting stars joining community, business and youth leaders to shape the Brisbane 2032 Legacy Plan. ...

https://twitter.com/ozbob13/status/1637101224658087936

In Queensland --> Are we being strung along? Qld in the dark over billions we'll spend before 2032

QuoteIt's hard to underestimate the potential impact of the $5 billion CopperString project, but then it's also hard to know anything at all about it in real terms.

And that is the nub of what is going to be a huge issue for taxpayers over the next decade as we not only build massive infrastructure for the transition to clean energy but also for the Olympics.

The secrecy that exists behind the commercial deals the Government enters into has been a lamentable part of Queensland politics. We are kept very much in the dark about major projects and funding deals. ...

Another talk fest, another strategy, another planning... followed by continuing to doing exactly the same thing as before! The actions of our governments are totally misaligned with any of the "visions, strategies or plans"

Quote from: RowBro on March 15, 2023, 08:09:18 AMIs this likely... no, but I think it is important not to get stuck in this mindset (similar to the Government) that you can only do one rail project at a time.

Right now, that's probably the only realistic option. Unless you have a magic pool of skilled labour somewhere that the rest of us don't know about? Unemployment is historically low.

The most realistic situation right now is finish CRR, then B2B/LN duplication, then DSCRL.

^ agreed.  Too little, too late sadly ...

Government Statements:

Paralympic Centre of Excellence – a Legacy of 2032
> https://statements.qld.gov.au/statements/97431

Australians to shape big, bold legacy vision for Brisbane 2032
> https://statements.qld.gov.au/statements/97427

Who is representing transport at this legacy meeting today at the RNA. Plus who did they consult? I heard through reports that they have already consulted with the community and stakeholders and transport rated 7.5% as a lasting legacy, which I find strange.

Seq Mayors are doing their best raising some transport ideas, but surely there are other advocates representing transport at this forum other than SEQ Mayors?

Have we seen any real transport outcomes from Seq Mayors other than ideas?

Other than new arterial roads and proposed new bus routes 🤪🙂

QuoteSeq Mayors are doing their best raising some transport ideas, but surely there are other advocates representing transport at this forum other than SEQ Mayors?

Have we seen any real transport outcomes from Seq Mayors other than ideas?

Other than new arterial roads and proposed new bus routes 🤪🙂

LGAs outside of BCC have no responsibility to fund PT operations or capital expenditure other than bus shelters/bays.

As such their focus is only roads, footpaths and bikeways.

QuoteThe most realistic situation right now is finish CRR, then B2B/LN duplication, then DSCRL.

Probably. Presume that GCLR3 can roll onto GCLR4
CRR workforce can split between B2B and DSCRL.
Brisbane Metro workforce onto Gabba station.

Brisbanetimes --> Transport key to Olympic gold as Qld population booms

QuoteAn extra 1 million people will live in south-east Queensland by the 2032 Olympic Games and that event's success would rise or fall on the state's ability to move them around, a prominent mayor says.

Speaking at a forum in Brisbane on Wednesday, Sunshine Coast Mayor Mark Jamieson said there was "a lot of work to be done" so services in the growing region would be up to the task. ...

====

https://twitter.com/ozbob13/status/1638410572025958400

Quote from: Gazza on March 22, 2023, 12:52:49 PM

QuoteThe most realistic situation right now is finish CRR, then B2B/LN duplication, then DSCRL.

Probably. Presume that GCLR3 can roll onto GCLR4
CRR workforce can split between B2B and DSCRL.
Brisbane Metro workforce onto Gabba station.

Well Gazza, the Premier thinks the CRR workforce can move onto the 'Gabba

" ... Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk is confident the state has the workforce necessary to build the Games' infrastructure amid other government projects.

The Cross River Rail project is "perfectly timed" so workers can move straight to the deconstruction of the Gabba stadium, she said. ... "

https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/transport-key-to-olympic-gold-as-qld-population-booms-20230322-p5cudt.html?fbclid=IwAR1PAo9OGcFc7uN55SEXz5FYr5ZmoAVt84iRzJ8ucCOnidWnZNt3TBVphnc



Absolutely no thought about the need for the transport projects.  It's all about the 'Gabba ...

Quote" ... Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk is confident the state has the workforce necessary to build the Games' infrastructure amid other government projects.

The Cross River Rail project is "perfectly timed" so workers can move straight to the deconstruction of the Gabba stadium, she said. ... "

Is the whole stadium going underground now too?   

Couriermail --> Opinion: On track for a successful Brisbane 2032 Games $

QuoteThe first year on the road to the Brisbane 2032 Games has been a productive one, and the city is set to rank alongside the world's best, writes Andrew Liveris.

In two weeks' time I will mark my first year anniversary in the role of president of the Brisbane 2032 Olympic and Paralympic Games.

It has been a productive year, focused on the establishment of the organising committee and our priorities in developing our 10-year strategic plan.

We have built a team. We have recruited a top leader as our CEO, who is now in place and leading our inaugural employees across key work streams that are now up and running. ...

Quote from: #Metro on March 22, 2023, 11:47:00 AM

QuoteSeq Mayors are doing their best raising some transport ideas, but surely there are other advocates representing transport at this forum other than SEQ Mayors?

Have we seen any real transport outcomes from Seq Mayors other than ideas?

Other than new arterial roads and proposed new bus routes 🤪🙂

LGAs outside of BCC have no responsibility to fund PT operations or capital expenditure other than bus shelters/bays.

As such their focus is only roads, footpaths and bikeways.

This is like saying we have a responsibility for kerb and gutting but the bitumen is not our responsibility to find!!

Quote from: Gazza on March 22, 2023, 12:52:49 PM

QuoteThe most realistic situation right now is finish CRR, then B2B/LN duplication, then DSCRL.

Probably. Presume that GCLR3 can roll onto GCLR4
CRR workforce can split between B2B and DSCRL.
Brisbane Metro workforce onto Gabba station.

BRT based bus network redesign could deliver a major change in parallel along with cycling/integration!!

They keep on mentioning "this survey" that people completed. What survey and was it accessible to all to partake?

Did anyone on here partake.

QuoteThis is like saying we have a responsibility for kerb and gutting but the bitumen is not our responsibility to find!!

Well, many members do not want LGAs to fund the operational costs of PT. They see it as the sole domain of the State Government.

As such, LGA mayors cannot be blamed from non-expenditure or non-proposal of any PT initiatives as it's not part of their job description currently. All they do is fund bus stops, special holiday services and studies. Funding of heavy infrastructure (e.g. LRT, Heavy Rail) is purely discretionary.

They are however, free to propose and fund local and arterial road upgrades, and operate toll roads.

Quote from: verbatim9 on March 22, 2023, 21:39:34 PMThey keep on mentioning "this survey" that people completed. What survey and was it accessible to all to partake?

Did anyone on here partake.

I had no idea there was even a survey conducted until reading this thread.

Quote from: verbatim9 on March 22, 2023, 21:39:34 PMThey keep on mentioning "this survey" that people completed. What survey and was it accessible to all to partake?

Did anyone on here partake.

Never heard of it!

I think it was this one, but I never knew about either until today.

https://haveyoursay.dsdilgp.qld.gov.au/brisbane2032-legacy-plan-qld-gov-au/survey_tools/brisbane-2032-hopes-and-dreams-survey

It really s%cks because a lot of people were not aware of this survey. In addition ideas from overseas were taken onboard. While I don't mind this, local people haven't had their say as they weren't aware of the survey. No wonder only around 10 percent of respondents thought transport should be an Olympic legacy. It would of been a higher proportion if more locals had their say.

I also wanted to contribute ideas towards venues as well.

Don't worry folks, I got the memo and filled in the survey.

I put in a transport one of course. The survey was a very simple form, you didn't miss much.

You can always write to the government outside this process as a constituent if you missed it.

Plans for Brisbane Olympics mapped out at 2032 Legacy Forum | 7NEWS

Quote from: #Metro on March 22, 2023, 22:53:50 PMDon't worry folks, I got the memo and filled in the survey.

I put in a transport one of course. The survey was a very simple form, you didn't miss much.

You can always write to the government outside this process as a constituent if you missed it.

There is going to be a period of ' community consultation ' on what they come up with anyway. 
Plenty of opportunity to give feedback.

This 2032 Legacy stuff is overdone.  As far as transport goes it will be nothing new just the projects that should have been progressed years ago is my bet.  There is nothing new on the radar by the looks of it.

If you go back through this thread, fast rail was to be part of the Olympics but it has been done away with as things started to get real. We will be fortunate if the half-baked Sunshine Line track amplification is done by 2032, let alone much else. The Olympics bid was predicated on a lot of transport bullsh%t.  And there is a lot of meaningless babble and spin going on now as well. 

Quote from: Otto on July 27, 2016, 01:21:40 AMFast rail linking Gold and Sunshine coasts a legacy if southeast hosts 2028 Olympics
Tom Snowdon, The Courier-Mail
July 26, 2016 8:16pm

A HIGH speed train linking both the Sunshine and Gold Coast to Brisbane in under 45 minutes – would likely be one of the legacies from hosting the 2028 Olympic Games.

A new or revamped entertainment and sports precinct in Brisbane would be another lasting benefit for the region, a pre-feasibility study has found.

more,
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/fast-rail-linking-gold-and-sunshine-coasts-a-legacy-if-southeast-hosts-2028-olympics/news-story/ca8e8bf8c30fe9fe9254c77b5f77dbda

Quote from: #Metro on March 22, 2023, 21:45:22 PM

QuoteThis is like saying we have a responsibility for kerb and gutting but the bitumen is not our responsibility to find!!

Well, many members do not want LGAs to fund the operational costs of PT. They see it as the sole domain of the State Government.

As such, LGA mayors cannot be blamed from non-expenditure or non-proposal of any PT initiatives as it's not part of their job description currently. All they do is fund bus stops, special holiday services and studies. Funding of heavy infrastructure (e.g. LRT, Heavy Rail) is purely discretionary.

They are however, free to propose and fund local and arterial road upgrades, and operate toll roads.

Can you give an example of an LGA outside of BCC operating toll roads? Contributing to PT cost doesn't magically make councils prioritise it, as can be seen with the idiotic ideas coming from BCC regarding the NWTC. Indeed, the PT system would in some ways be better off without political interference from BCC.

As for other LGAs, I would prefer they put a lot more money into upgrading bus stops (including improving accessibility), footpaths, and cycling infrastructure rather than operating bus services, which is quitely clearly the domain of the State.

While overexpenditure on roads is a bad thing, many of these situations are driven by the road-centric attitude of the State Government. One example is the Loganlea Rd upgrade. If it were not for the State constantly expanding the M1, and therefore increasing demand to access it rather than say spending more on improving the rail line (LGCFR should've been done 10+ years ago IMO instead of more M1 upgrades), the need for the Loganlea Rd upgrade wouldn't exist.

And if we want to talk about moronic road projects:

KSD upgrade with no bus lanes
Wynnum Rd upgrade ditto.

Two of the most expensive and pointless road upgrade projects this millenium both funded and constructed by the LGA you are arguing is better at public transport because they pour funds into a duplicative bus network.

Under s105G of the Transport Infrastructure Act 1994 (Qld), an LGA may write to the Minister for Transport seeking a declaration for an LGA tollway.

Therefore, any LGA in Qld that is able to have a tollway project may become a toll road operator.

Quote105G Request for declaration

(1)A local government that has an approved tollway project may, by written notice given to the Minister, ask the Minister to declare a local government tollway for the approved tollway project.

(2)The request must be accompanied by a plan of the proposed local government tollway.

Quote from: #Metro on March 23, 2023, 07:56:28 AMUnder s105G of the Transport Infrastructure Act 1994 (Qld), an LGA may write to the Minister for Transport seeking a declaration for an LGA tollway.

Therefore, any LGA in Qld that is able to have a tollway project may become a toll road operator.

Quote105G Request for declaration

(1)A local government that has an approved tollway project may, by written notice given to the Minister, ask the Minister to declare a local government tollway for the approved tollway project.

(2)The request must be accompanied by a plan of the proposed local government tollway.

I didn't ask if they could, I asked for examples. How about answering the question instead of being irrelevant. Are you a politician?

Quote from: achiruel on March 23, 2023, 10:32:33 AMI didn't ask if they could, I asked for examples. How about answering the question instead of being irrelevant. Are you a politician?

From my search, albeit brief so it's possible I missed something, BCC is the only council to own toll roads. These being the Clem7, GoBetween Bridge, and the Legacy Way all operated by Transurban.

Regardless of the legality of it, realistically I don't think the council should be operating toll roads since, by the nature of toll roads, they are often major transport projects which you would think would be more under the purview of the state. I don't think the Council should have any financial input into major roads (especially toll roads) under the same principle underpinning my belief that they shouldn't have financial input into public transport. The councils in Queensland are too large for their own good. Instead of focusing on what the local government should focus on, they get bogged down in political fights with the State government which is not productive for anyone involved. I have no issues with them suggesting things to the state, but actively having a financial say in these projects which effect people both within and outside the LGA boundaries is a step too far IMO.

Having a broader perspective for large road and transport is particularly important because you need that connection between LGA's. You need a seamless network of busses, trains, and roads. Having LGA's involved financially completely contradicts this principle because all they care about is their local area. BCC doesn't give too flying hoots about the poor standards of bus connections outside of their borders.

" ... BCC doesn't give too flying hoots about the poor standards of bus connections outside of their borders. ... "

^ this. Indeed, and it is why we need a proper public transport authority, with TfB an operator.

All planning and route implementation be with the authority. 

The days of Brisbane being surrounded by market gardens are long gone.