RAIL - Back On Track Forum

I wouldn't bet against it either. Albo's honeymoon period will be over, Palaszczuk will be at the end of her third term, and council elections really favour incumbents.
I also suspect Qld Labor have a tendency to strategically deprioritise the BCC elections.

Quote from: SurfRail on February 19, 2023, 10:52:24 AMDon't bank on BCC being run by the LNP after the 2024 elections.  The trends aren't exactly on their side.

Very true. I hope Labor does the smart thing and runs on a platform of better PT and AT, but we'll see.

Quote from: ozbob on February 19, 2023, 00:20:08 AMCouriermail --> Lord Mayor wants Brisbane 2032 Games to be car free $

QuoteIn a wide-ranging interview, the Brisbane Lord Mayor has also backed cricket as a possible addition to the sporting line up at the 2032 Games in a bid to lure hundreds of millions of viewers from India.

You'll notice that Metricon stadium at Carrara and Nissan Arena at Nathan are both suspiciously missing from being used as any kind of Olympic venue so far. I suspect that this is because they are secretly being planned to use for Cricket and Netball respectively

Quote from: RowBro on February 19, 2023, 11:37:05 AM

Quote from: SurfRail on February 19, 2023, 10:52:24 AMDon't bank on BCC being run by the LNP after the 2024 elections.  The trends aren't exactly on their side.

Very true. I hope Labor does the smart thing and runs on a platform of better PT and AT, but we'll see.

The thing is most people drive in SEQ compared to people catching public transport. The votes are where the drivers are unfortunately. Once there is a significant transformative change in transport mode share, more people may vote for issues aligned with better public transport.

The best thing about the Olympics is that the government in power has an excuse to invest more in public transport rather than road infrastructure. Thus, once the infrastructure is in place and higher density occurs in Brisbane people are likely to choose active and public transport more frequently to get from A to B.

As a result you are likely to get long term policy changes across the political spectrum, as what's now occurring in Sydney and Melbourne due to higher density and increased PT use.

Here is what the Queensland Government said at the outset would be the economic benefits of the 2032 Olympic and Paralympic Games for SEQ:

"The quantifiable economic benefits for Queensland have been estimated at around $7.4 billion. The tourism and trade opportunities the Games could deliver are significant. These include a $20.2 billion uplift in international tourism expenditure between 2020 and 2036 and increased export opportunities of up to $8.6 billion."

In the here and now, taxpayers are spending $7 billion on the Games against 'quantifiable economic benefits' of around $7.4 billion'.  That makes for an interesting BCR, based on today's dollars.

https://twitter.com/MarkBaileyMP/status/1627072784823377925

https://twitter.com/ozbob13/status/1627325457715838976

Updated forecast:

Deputy Premier Steven Miles said the Games are forecast to deliver $8.1 billion in economic and social benefits to Queensland and more than $17.6 billion to Australia.

$7 billion cost and $8.1 billion return.

QuoteIf we are to boost active transport for 2032 Games, then we need @bne_lordmayor & the @brisbanecityqld to stop cutting bikeway projects & start building separated cycleways in the suburbs like Annerley Rd, Fairfield Rd, Logan Rd & more. And soon.

Show projects are not enough.

So this is an example of insertion of misprepresentation. The author has taken something and inserted their own misrepresentative elements, namely (1) that the bikeway project was cut and (2) that the project is a "show project".

Except that that TMR website shows that it is a joint project between BCC and TMR:

North Brisbane Bikeway
https://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/projects/north-brisbane-bikeway

QuoteThe Department of Transport and Main Roads (TMR) has delivered this project in partnership with Brisbane City Council, and the new bikeway to encourage more cycling, more often, across all ages.

Stages 1 to 4 were delivered by TMR, in partnership with Brisbane City Council.

There is no reason to think that Stage 5 of the project won't be carried out in partnership with BCC either.

BCC collaborated with TMR to deliver Stages 1-4 of the bikeway. And it isn't a cut either, rather a delay to the project AIUI.

By the standard advanced by the minister, are the delays to CRR and its sub-projects to be considered 'cuts' too?

For Minister Bailey I think it is fair to infer that Optics > Accuracy.

A number of members here have been blocked by the minister in our own personal capacities on his twitter when pointing out 'facts of inconvenience'.

If the minister's own department participated in Stages 1-4 of this project, does that mean his department undertook the project as a show excercise? Are other projects administered by TMR show projects as well (e.g. cycleway for the Centenary Motorway alignment?)

ABC News --> East Brisbane State School community angry its to move for Gabba redevelopment ahead of Brisbane Olympics

QuoteParents have voiced their anger at a surprise announcement confirming heritage-listed East Brisbane State School will close to allow for the redevelopment of the Gabba stadium ahead of the 2032 Brisbane Olympics.

Key points:
The East Brisbane State School community says it wasn't consulted over a decision to close the school
The Queensland Government will expand the Gabba stadium ahead of the Brisbane Olympics
The school is right next to the south side stadium
East Brisbane State School P&C member Nicky Middleton said the community did not know the school would close until Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk made the announcement on Friday morning. ...

The government has expanded the PDA limiting community consultation. Sometimes this needs to be done to ensure projects go ahead in a timely manner.

6NEWS --> Controversy grows over the Gabba redevelopment for 2032 Olympic Games

Brisbane 2032 Olympic and Paralympic Games Legacy Plan

Have your say > https://haveyoursay.dsdilgp.qld.gov.au/brisbane2032-legacy-plan-qld-gov-au

QuoteBrisbane 2032 Legacy Plan Hopes and Dreams Survey
Incredible things will happen because we're hosting the Brisbane 2032 Olympic and Paralympic Games.

Hosting Brisbane 2032 is an opportunity to deliver lasting benefits to Queensland and Australia over the next 20 years – 10 years to the Games and 10 years after.

And we want your help to develop the Brisbane 2032 Legacy Plan.

The Brisbane 2032 Legacy Plan will define how we take advantage of the Olympic and Paralympic Games platform over a 10+10+ year period to drive opportunities that ensure lasting benefits before, during and after the Games.

Some benefits could be delivered before 2032 so we can enjoy them early. Other benefits will continue to be delivered for 10 years after the Games.

Either way, we want to deliver real benefits for people living in Brisbane, South East Queensland, Queensland, Australia and Oceania.

Your Neighbourhood--->Expanded Woolloongabba PDA - Brisbane2032 Olympics

QuoteThe State Government has announced that the Woolloongabba Priority Development Area (PDA) will be expanded to encompass the Stanley Street precinct to South Bank and include more of Woolloongabba.

^A good write up by Your Neighbourhood

As far as fast rail or even slow rail infrastructure or legacy..

To date it's the Nolympic games.

https://twitter.com/ozbob13/status/1629489160838070273

Has anyone else noticed how the Busway has now become the Brisbane Metro! Marketing over substance!! 100's of bus routes and 1 new long bus a Metro does not make!

Los Angeles, a city once known globally, as car dominant and very anti-public transit.  They're hosting the 2028 Olympics...and lookie....lookie....lookie.....[now that's Olympics inspired infrastructure!]

^ Brightline West

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brightline_West

Yo, not for Queensland.  Queensland will struggle to complete the upgrade of the Sunshine Coast line north of Beerburrum, or even the upgrade Kuraby to Beenleigh.

Unless we get a proper public transport authority to sort things out, progress (non-progress?) will remain piecemeal, fragmented and illogical.

The Australian --> Brisbane Olympic arenas in race to be world's most expensive $

QuoteBrisbane's showcase 2032 Olympics arenas will rank among the world's most expensive sports venues despite new rules that are supposed to make hosting the Games cheaper.

Numbers crunched for The Australian show that a rebuilt Gabba at $2.7bn is double the cost of Perth's Optus stadium but will accommodate 10,000 fewer spectators. The Olympic athletics and closing and opening ceremonies are to be held there.

The cost per seat at the revamped Gabba is $54,000 against $21,720 for the $1.33bn home of the AFL and test cricket in the West, currently Australia's most expensive stadium with a capacity of 60,000.

But that pales against the planned $2.5bn Brisbane Arena where the Olympic swimming is set to be staged in a drop-in pool. Its 17,000 seats will each cost an eye-watering $147,058 – making them the most expensive on the planet, according to an analysis by economist Colin Dwyer, adjunct professor at James Cook University. ...

    

https://twitter.com/ozbob13/status/1632385725533679616

Quote from: Fares_Fair on February 25, 2023, 12:53:57 PMAs far as fast rail or even slow rail infrastructure or legacy..

To date it's the Nolympic games.

Imagine being an incoming Government faced with this mess ...

Oh boy.  It just gets worse ...

QuoteThe cost per seat at the revamped Gabba is $54,000 against $21,720 for the $1.33bn home of the AFL and test cricket in the West, currently Australia's most expensive stadium with a capacity of 60,000.

What a great analysis, even down to cost-per-seat. Almost sounds like I wrote it. 

The same article that examined the cost of providing seats for the SEQ Games quotes an infrastructure expert, Adrian Dwyer, chief executive of Infrastructure Partnerships Australia, as saying that with preliminaries being hosted in Cairns and Townsville, its like the Olympics being in London and the lead-in elements being held in Rome.

He went on to say: "There's a lot of focus about venues, but I'm not hearing discussion or detail on how you connect those venues .... so I think we need to get on with some stuff here.

"You needs to start talking about having the capacity, the quality, the reliability of transport connections if you don't want to have the mistakes made in Atlanta (Olympics 1996) where we nearly had circumstances where athletes were missing their events because they weren't connected effectively between where they were living and where they were performing."

We also learned during the week that the Queensland Government is now in 'technical breach' of the agreement with the IOC by not forming an Olympic Coordinating Committee, as promised.  Annastacia Palaszczuk seems to be delaying  on this point while she and government pollies make all the big decisions up front, unencumbered by good advice, and then wanting to hand the lot over to a committee that will have to make sense of the mess and which becomes the convenient whipping boy when everything goes pear-shaped.

Quote... We also learned during the week that the Queensland Government is now in 'technical breach' of the agreement with the IOC by not forming an Olympic Coordinating Committee, as promised.  Annastacia Palaszczuk seems to be delaying  on this point while she and government pollies make all the big decisions up front, unencumbered by good advice, and then wanting to hand the lot over to a committee that will have to make sense of the mess and which becomes the convenient whipping boy when everything goes pear-shaped. ...

" car free Olympics "

" sky taxis "

Even the ' experts ' are becoming nervous. 

If I was the IOC I would be considering rethinking 2032, this outfit is not up to it.

Major transport projects and other service improvements.  Chance of being achieved prior to Olympics.

1.  Gold Coast light rail stage 3  100%

2.  Gold Coast light rail stage 4    70%

3.  Kuraby - Beenleigh quadruplication  70%

4.  Beerburrum to Landsborough duplication 10%

5.  Beerwah to Maroochydore branch line  0%

6.  ATP ETCS L2 entire Citytrain network  10%

7.  Improvements on the Cleveland line - single section Manly - Cleveland 5%

8.  Service frequency improvements on the entire Citytrain network 10%

9.  Sunshine Coast mass transit  20%

10.  Proper bus network reform for all regions  10%

11.  Fast rail  -1000%

 

If Schrinner wants a "car free Olympics" then I'd be adding some other projects to that list. All still with equally low chance of happening.

1. Brisbane Metro extension to Chandler (Mass transit access to Sleeman Sports Complex

2. GCLR stage 5? 6? Down Nerang Broadbeach road (Mass transit access to Carrara Sports Precinct)

3. Airtrain tickets at regular Translink prices (so international punters don't have to take a mortgage just to travel into town)

4. Extension of rail line to Hamilton (Athletes village access)

5. Passenger rail to Beaudesert (are you going to run shuttle buses to Wyaralong from Roma Street???)

6. All train stations with full disability access (it will be an international embarassment to have non-wheelchair accessible stations in 2032. Especially at high profile stations without full level boarding like Central and South Bank)

Quote from: timh on March 06, 2023, 14:14:15 PMIf Schrinner wants a "car free Olympics" then I'd be adding some other projects to that list. All still with equally low chance of happening.

1. Brisbane Metro extension to Chandler (Mass transit access to Sleeman Sports Complex

2. GCLR stage 5? 6? Down Nerang Broadbeach road (Mass transit access to Carrara Sports Precinct)

3. Airtrain tickets at regular Translink prices (so international punters don't have to take a mortgage just to travel into town)

4. Extension of rail line to Hamilton (Athletes village access)

5. Passenger rail to Beaudesert (are you going to run shuttle buses to Wyaralong from Roma Street???)

6. All train stations with full disability access (it will be an international embarassment to have non-wheelchair accessible stations in 2032. Especially at high profile stations without full level boarding like Central and South Bank)

I reckon the level boarding for central is coming once CRR is operational. Currently they can't afford to shut even 1 pair of platforms with all the networks traffic going through the same bottleneck.

Thanks for joining in Tim and RowBro.  The list is long and concerning.

https://www.qld.gov.au/about/Brisbane2032

Nothing about transport.

https://www.qld.gov.au/about/Brisbane2032/about-the-games

Nothing since August 2022.

They have lost the plot ...

Quote from: ozbob on March 07, 2023, 07:54:30 AMhttps://www.qld.gov.au/about/Brisbane2032

Nothing about transport.

https://www.qld.gov.au/about/Brisbane2032/about-the-games

Nothing since August 2022.

They have lost the plot ...

I took the liberty of sending a message to (The Honorable) Mark Bailey on just that topic. We'll see if I receive a response... 

QuoteHello Minister.

I'm writing to you to express my concerns regarding the apparent lack of plans for public transport at the 2032 Olympic games. There have been plenty of announcements and budget allocation regarding the venues (such as the Gabba and Brisbane Live stadiums), however as of current there has been little to no mention of public transport goals or projects which have been designed to alleviate congestion during the Olympics.

The promotional material I can find only talks about CRR and The Logan and Gold Coast Faster Rail, however these were already announced prior to SEQ being chosen to host the Olympics. While these projects are extremely important and will help with the delivery of the Olympics (especially the direct rail connection to the Gabba), it still seems to fall short of the efforts from other host cities. The Olympics, as I'm sure you will agree, is a great opportunity to improve public transport for generations to come. I would hate, as I'm sure many other constituents would too, the great opportunity to be squandered.

It appears, at least from an external perspective, that CRR is being used as an excuse to not seriously explore any additional rail projects. The CAMCOS project is now onto its 3rd feasibility study in just over 2 decades, yet it doesn't seem to be any closer to reality than it was in the 2000's. Are there any plans to move the CRR workforce onto a new project upon completion or is this talent and experience gained just going to be thrown out the window as it takes a decade to start up another major project. It seems that every year there is another major road project (increasing the Bruce highway to 3 lanes to the Steve Irwin way, replacing interchange after interchange, the Coomera Connecter), yet in the half a decade since CRR began construction, all we've gotten is a slight realignment of the rail corridor south of Brisbane, a case study into CAMCOS, and a behind schedule, underspent, and cut back duplication of rail to Beerwah.

What concerns me the most is that there doesn't even seem to be a body set up to inform the Government about what public transport solutions are needed for the Olympics to be a success. It's become abundantly clear that TMR is still stuck back in the old days, where the prevailing consensus was essentially, more lanes equals less traffic. I'm sure you are well aware that this isn't necessarily true in all circumstances and the most cost-effective way to reduce congestion on our roads is public transportation, yet it seems that the focus of TMR is roads, roads, and more roads. Why is it that public transport isn't under its own body, something which I believe was recommended in an audit report previously. As long as public transport is stuck under the TMR umbrella, it seems inevitable that it will fall to the wayside.

Another major concern I have is the lack of any substantial changes to the bus network in Brisbane and elsewhere for decades. The current network in Brisbane is a mess of convoluted overlapping routes. It is no wonder no one wants to catch the bus. It's painfully clear that the whole network needs to be reviewed prior to the Olympics to reduce and simplify the (let's face it ridiculous) number of bus routes. The added benefit of this is that the frequency on each route will be increased. What Brisbane needs is frequent busses going down every major corridor (East-West included), not busses doing milk runs down every minor street to pick up and drop off people right outside their house.

Brisbane is a vast city, so it is impractical to expect every street to have a local bus route, and ultimately all this does is make public transport less appealing to the masses. There's no point having a bus right outside your door if it only comes once an hour. The majority of people would rather walk slightly further to catch a frequent bus. The other major issue is that the connection between busses and trains is appalling. Nearly every bus in Brisbane is made to run directly into the city which is a ridiculous waste of resources. The 340, for example. It literally goes from one train station (Carseldine) to another (Roma Street). Why is it that the public transport planners are so averse to creating transfer points to rail, even when it will make the commuters journey quicker than sitting in traffic on a bus. Even outside of Brisbane, the connection is poor. When a train service is delayed by any more than 5-10 minutes, the busses will leave the station before the arrival of the train. This forces some commuters to wait an hour for the next bus or find another way home. Why aren't these busses told to wait the extra 5 minutes for a late train instead of leaving almost empty with the handful of passengers being stranded when the train arrives?

There also hasn't even been any announcement of negotiations with the federal government regarding public transport funding, let alone any actual funding announced. It seems that the main focus of your government is for flashy venues, however that's only half the battle. Flashy venues won't make it any easier to actually get to said venue, and without a public transport network which is properly set up, it is bound to result in gridlock and disaster.

The main thing I, and many others, are wanting is an acknowledgement of the current issues with public transport, and some indication that these issues are being actively worked on and addressed in preparation for the Olympics and beyond. We're looking for announcements that there are negotiations going on with the Federal government. We're looking for proactive steps to address the shortcomings of public transport under TMR, and a plan to consult with public transport experts regarding the requirements of the Olympics and beyond. You can spend over 4.7 billion to rebuild an existing stadium and create a new arena, yet you can't even commit to any major transport projects after the completion of CRR. It's no wonder that I, and many others, are concerned.

I thank you for your time and consideration.

^ Well done RowBro.  Excellent, thank you.

Couriermail --> Qld 2032 Olympic and Paralympic Games independent infrastructure body scrapped $

QuoteDeputy Premier Steven Miles has revealed there will be no independent agency that will oversee the critical infrastructure needed for the 2032 Olympic and Paralympic Games.

Mr Miles confirmed for the first time on Thursday that any such independent agency had been scrapped.

He said a co-ordination agency would instead sit in-house with the state government, because the infrastructure that is being built is for Queenslanders.

The Deputy Premier insisted the responsible state government agencies were capable of delivering the relevant infrastructure. ...

Quote from: ozbob on March 09, 2023, 13:45:51 PM

Couriermail --> Qld 2032 Olympic and Paralympic Games independent infrastructure body scrapped $

QuoteDeputy Premier Steven Miles has revealed there will be no independent agency that will oversee the critical infrastructure needed for the 2032 Olympic and Paralympic Games.

Mr Miles confirmed for the first time on Thursday that any such independent agency had been scrapped.

He said a co-ordination agency would instead sit in-house with the state government, because the infrastructure that is being built is for Queenslanders.

The Deputy Premier insisted the responsible state government agencies were capable of delivering the relevant infrastructure. ...

Seems like yet another broken promise... 

They maybe overstating their competency at delivery infrastructure in timely manner.

Most of time it's years late and over budget which doesn't meet the expectations of the community.

Quote from: verbatim9 on March 09, 2023, 14:11:04 PMThey maybe overstating their competency at delivery infrastructure in timely manner.

Most of time it's years late and over budget which doesn't meet the expectations of the community.

Infrastructure??? Pfffttttt. Clearly the only infrastructure needed for the games are Stadiums... 

https://twitter.com/ozbob13/status/1633678590591258624

https://twitter.com/ozbob13/status/1633680825354166272

Quote from: verbatim9 on March 09, 2023, 14:11:04 PMThey maybe overstating their competency at delivery infrastructure in timely manner.

Most of time it's years late and over budget which doesn't meet the expectations of the community.

They = Steven Miles and the Government agencies. (Not the axed independent overseer).

Yeah, bad call

Queensland state government really thinks it can do whatever it wants with this thing.

No senate in Queensland to provide additional scrutiny

No independent infrastructure body

This does not bode well

They think that stadiums and sky taxis will solve their lack of rail infrastructure construction.
They are planting an infrastructure expenditure bomb for the next state government.

PS
Mr Miles told a whopper in that story.