RAIL - Back On Track Forum

QuoteTrue, but they still won't want to be swindled. They would have an estimate for the safely expected profit for the next 10 years and the Government will need to meet it, or at least come close to it.

Sure. I think a fun exercise on this forum would be for members to post what they think the acquisition value will be.

If it comes to pass, we can see how close we all are.

I reckon $100 million.

It would be a good deal because you can barely build 1 km of rail for that in SEQ these days.

^  we will never know is my guess.  CIC   

Quote from: ozbob on November 03, 2022, 17:14:58 PM^  we will never know is my guess.  CIC   

That wouldn't go over well with the voting public...

I wonder if they will build Skygate station after the buyback?

The deal might just be to pay shadow fares to the operator like the NSW Government does for the "non-airport" Airport line stations.  A passenger wouldn't know or care. 

There might even still be a modest premium on top of the standard fare to help off-set that until the exclusivity ends, or help fund duplication of the line and a Skygate station.  One way to implement that would be to artificially treat the 2 airport stations as falling into Zone 3 or 4, which would result in each go card peak fare attracting around another $2 or $4 respectively (similar to what happens with the SMBI ferry).  I think that would be doable - while not ideal, I think there are slightly more pressing priorities than getting rid of Airtrain fares to the point that would be a good compromise.

For comparison, the airport surcharge in Vancouver was $5 when I was there in 2019, which is annoying but not that noticeable.  (It's a slightly slower trip from their airport to Waterfront at 26m vs Domestic to Brisbane Central at 24m, but more comfortable here since the Canada line trains are tiny and generally packed.)  Sydney's is a more useful proposition since Kingsford-Smith is close to the CBD and the on-road alternatives are (currently) worse than they are in Brisbane, but the gate fee at the 2 airport stations is high and so like Airtrain up here is not good value unless travelling alone.

Quote from: ozbob on November 03, 2022, 17:02:37 PM

Quote from: #Metro on November 03, 2022, 16:31:01 PMThere you go. After a lot of discussion on this forum saying it is not possible etc etc, look at that.

Sometimes you just need to approach the other party and talk it out.

Amazing.

Keep and open mind. There are often always options.

Well done Mark Bailey.

I don't think anyone has said it is not possible, it always has been possible it is the matter of the quantum of financial compensation that would be paid.

Now that it is out the open the fact that negotiations have been going on is no surprise to all. 
I have known for a while but made a committment to keep it quiet.

And this is not an absolute guarantee yet.  The negotiations have to be successful,  clearly the financial compensation amount acceptable to Airtrain and the State.

Hammer meet nail.

Metro. You still don't get it. You need to get rid of this they'll sell up mentality. It's not just rail. The contact is exclusivity. Thats the windfall. They can make money from rail but they can also make money from other forms of transport access. They effectively have a monopoly on transport access and they know this coming up to what will be Brisbanes biggest event in decades if not ever. The airport line has had the biggest patronage uptake with it being back or close to pre covid levels.

Skygate station won't be a thing. Not sure why this keeps getting traction. Hardly anything to attract all day sustained patronage. Peak hour frequency is wasted due to the opening hours mainly being from 10am. All the news about it being so busy it's difficult it access is a sort of false story. The access roads are what causes the congestion. Similar to Gympie road around Westfield.

Quote from: HappyTrainGuy on November 03, 2022, 17:44:37 PMSkygate station won't be a thing. Not sure why this keeps getting traction. Hardly anything to attract all day sustained patronage. Peak hour frequency is wasted due to the opening hours mainly being from 10am. All the news about it being so busy it's difficult it access is a sort of false story. The access roads are what causes the congestion. Similar to Gympie road around Westfield.

It could be a station with limited hours. That way you don't have trains stopping there when the stores aren't open. However, it's also important to note that it would also provide an option for workers in the nearby industry area.

Clutching at straws really. Industrial workers wouldn't use it. Shift times for starters which would go against the limited hours operation mode. Then there's the walking distance. Do you build a stop near the shops or closer to the industrial buildings. Industrial access is also limited due to the road layout ie accessing trade coast. You then have the curve to deal with.

Quote from: SurfRail on November 03, 2022, 17:36:35 PMThe deal might just be to pay shadow fares to the operator like the NSW Government does for the "non-airport" Airport line stations.  A passenger wouldn't know or care. 

There might even still be a modest premium on top of the standard fare to help off-set that until the exclusivity ends, or help fund duplication of the line and a Skygate station.  One way to implement that would be to artificially treat the 2 airport stations as falling into Zone 3 or 4, which would result in each go card peak fare attracting around another $2 or $4 respectively (similar to what happens with the SMBI ferry).  I think that would be doable - while not ideal, I think there are slightly more pressing priorities than getting rid of Airtrain fares to the point that would be a good compromise.

For comparison, the airport surcharge in Vancouver was $5 when I was there in 2019, which is annoying but not that noticeable.  (It's a slightly slower trip from their airport to Waterfront at 26m vs Domestic to Brisbane Central at 24m, but more comfortable here since the Canada line trains are tiny and generally packed.)  Sydney's is a more useful proposition since Kingsford-Smith is close to the CBD and the on-road alternatives are (currently) worse than they are in Brisbane, but the gate fee at the 2 airport stations is high and so like Airtrain up here is not good value unless travelling alone.

The government paying a shadow fare and keeping Airtrain as the operator could be a best of both worlds for sure.

Skygate Station I support, but I think BAC would have to pump some more money into developing the precinct to make it worthwhile. More offices, maybe some nightlife/dining to support the 24-hourness. The current 24 hour situation is the woolies and nothing else.

The biggest thing I'd like to see improved on the airport line is all day 15 minute services, and removal of the flat junction!

QuoteHammer meet nail.

Metro. You still don't get it. You need to get rid of this they'll sell up mentality. It's not just rail. The contact is exclusivity. Thats the windfall. They can make money from rail but they can also make money from other forms of transport access. They effectively have a monopoly on transport access and they know this coming up to what will be Brisbanes biggest event in decades if not ever. The airport line has had the biggest patronage uptake with it being back or close to pre covid levels.

HTG, it sounds like you are confusing Brisbane Airport Corporation with the owners of Brisbane Airtrain.

Are you suggesting that Brisbane Airport Corporation (BAC) is a party to the BARL deed? I thought the deed itself was binding between the USS UK super fund subsidiary and the Queensland Government.

And are you suggesting that Brisbane Airport Corporation (BAC) will want compensation as a third party for the loss of parking revenue and Airport lost access fees from Uber/Taxi use? Is that your main point here?

As BAC didn't build the infrastructure for the Airport Line, I don't think they are in a good position to demand compensation for loss of Uber/Taxi revenue. And if the owners of Airtrain hold permission to access the Airport, I would expect that permission to transfer to the Queensland Government after sale to the State? I'm sure others here might have a different view.

Some other interesting numbers...

If the expected profit is about $8 million per year and the patronage is about 1.5 million passengers, then Airtrain is making ($8 million/1.5 million passengers) = $5.33 profit per passenger trip or thereabouts.

If we remove the profit...($20-$5.33) then the train service cost ~ $14.67 per passenger trip to supply. I wonder if that value is not too far off what is costs to supply train service per trip on the QR train network generally?

You tell us.

Quote from: #Metro on November 03, 2022, 18:28:50 PM

QuoteHammer meet nail.

Metro. You still don't get it. You need to get rid of this they'll sell up mentality. It's not just rail. The contact is exclusivity. Thats the windfall. They can make money from rail but they can also make money from other forms of transport access. They effectively have a monopoly on transport access and they know this coming up to what will be Brisbanes biggest event in decades if not ever. The airport line has had the biggest patronage uptake with it being back or close to pre covid levels.

HTG, it sounds like you are confusing Brisbane Airport Corporation with the owners of Brisbane Airtrain.

Are you suggesting that Brisbane Airport Corporation (BAC) is a party to the BARL deed? I thought the deed itself was binding between the USS UK super fund subsidiary and the Queensland Government.

And are you suggesting that Brisbane Airport Corporation (BAC) will want compensation as a third party for the loss of parking revenue and Airport lost access fees from Uber/Taxi use? Is that your main point here?

As BAC didn't build the infrastructure for the Airport Line, I don't think they are in a good position to demand compensation for loss of Uber/Taxi revenue. And if the owners of Airtrain hold permission to access the Airport, I would expect that permission to transfer to the Queensland Government after sale to the State? I'm sure others here might have a different view.

Some other interesting numbers...

If the expected profit is about $8 million per year and the patronage is about 1.5 million passengers, then Airtrain is making ($8 million/1.5 million passengers) = $5.33 profit per passenger trip or thereabouts.

If we remove the profit...($20-$5.33) then the train service cost ~ $14.67 per passenger trip to supply. I wonder if that value is not too far off what is costs to supply train service per trip on the QR train network generally?

Far less people use airtrain. Most of the revenue for QR comes during the morning and afternoon peak and that helps to offset the losses outside of peak. Its still subsidised but i doubt that heavily. Also keep in mind QR still gets some of the fare too, it doesnt all go to Airtrain, so i dont think thats actually the cost.

Also i think its pretty clear HTG was saying that Airtrain would make money off other transport schemes from the government (metro for example) if they wish to operate since they would have to pay Airtrain for permission to run services in their exclusivity zone.

Airtrain has exclusive government subsidised rights under the boot scheme. No public transport operator is allowed to operate a competing service outside of airtrain. Private transport (ie taxis) falls outside of this. You want a bcc bus running to the airport then you need airtrain to sign off on it - which they can then impose their own fare on top of the standard translink fare similar to rail access. This being the key point around the olympics. If the government wants to run additional services be it bus, train, boat etc to the airport Airtrain gets to chime in. That's the winning ticket which makes the buyout all that more expensive for the state government.

BCC wants airtrain out as metro buses would be subject to additional pricing due to Airtrain. A look that they don't want should they be allowed to run to the airport. Once again a political move rather than a better for the public service.

FYI the state has been in talks about buying out for quite a long time now but so far both parties haven't come to an agreeable price yet. Also casts light on your they want to sell theory. They know the big profit is coming up. After the olympics they could dump it considering how long would be left after that but who knows. Seq might get some other big name events following the olympics. This Is information that would be known to them in part due to planning of events. The dangerous part for the state which airtrain knows is that the state could potentially cover some of the fare to entice more people to use public transport instead of cars to/from the airport. For airtrain that's more $$$ to them. The user might pay an extra few bucks but the state picks up the rest of the tab. Either way as you can see with the contract over government services airtrain has the golden ticket and they'll hold onto it for as long as they can.

Here, Table 9 on Page 26 of this document puts Brisbane Airtrain's mode share at just ~ 10.5% (see footnote). It is not really a "monopoly" if Airtrain is losing ~ 80% of the market to a mix of private car, and Taxi/Uber.

That's almost 80% of Brisbane Airport passengers/users not using the train. Some members here may argue that statistic itself is probably justification enough to buy it out or subsidise.

QuoteThis being the key point around the olympics. If the government wants to run additional services be it bus, train, boat etc to the airport Airtrain gets to chime in. That's the winning ticket which makes the buyout all that more expensive for the state government.

Quantitative Evaluation

The Gabba stadium when upgraded would sit 50,000 pax for the Olympics. At one flight in and out of Brisbane Airport for everyone and assuming 100% mode split to the train (very optimistic), thats 100,000 additional passenger trips in year 2032 on the Airtrain that year. At ~ $5.33 (todays dollars) expected profit per passenger trip, that would be + $533,000 in undiscounted terms.

So it does make it more expensive, but not by much. Total buyout cost would still be around the $100 million ballpark IMHO.

Source: TTF Accessing our Airports (2014)
https://www.ttf.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/TTF-Accessing-Australias-Airports-2014.pdf

Urgh. Government subsidised. And this is the Olympics. Not your standard business trip or overseas holiday in 2014. Okay we had the G20 with a public holiday and special g20 lanes with police escorts which made the area a nightmare but what else did we have in 2014. Not much. You want a metro bus from the Airport to Hamilton. Airtrain can charge an additional fare. They have the right to do so. So you are expecting only 50,000-100,000 people to come in because that's all the Gabba can fit? It was only on tv the other day but rio had close to 500,000 international visitors in attendance with the local airport handling around 80,000 of them in 1 single day (I assume they have counted both arriving and departing in that).

Traffic in and around the airport can already by problematic at the best of times let alone during the olympics (which mind you will also have infill development around the airport). We've seen how Southbank traffic has become very problematic thanks to rideshare services constantly driving around doing laps looking to get fares which in itself can trigger surge pricing inflating the costs to the end user.

As I said they could allow metro buses and the state could help the end user by covering some of their fare. All that means is more people using public transport which means a bigger payout to Airtrain. Any transport that is government subsidised Airtrain will get $$$ and the only way to move large amounts of people is via bus and heavy rail which comes back to Airtrain having its monopoly over.

Possible Airtrain buy out by the State is under negotiations.  It is not a slam dunk.

The BARL Deed is a fact.  Lets just wait and see how this plays out.

I would like to see it back with the State by 2024.  But nothing is guaranteed.

As I was quoted in the BT article:

Quote" Public transport advocate Robert Dow, from lobby group Rail Back on Track, said the ultimate goal of the negotiations should be to fully integrate Airtrain into the wider network fare structure.

"We'd welcome the return of air train to the state government with the proviso that it operates as part of the normal citytrain network," he said.

"Same fare structure, same timetable."

Anything else would be half-baked and hardly worth it in my view.

QuoteIt was only on tv the other day but rio had close to 500,000 international visitors in attendance with the local airport handling around 80,000 of them in 1 single day (I assume they have counted both arriving and departing in that).

Yes, HTG but when they land where are they going to stay?

Brisbane Accomodation
https://businessevents.australia.com/en/destinations/brisbane/accommodation.html

QuoteWith more than 21,000 guest rooms and another 3,000 in development, Brisbane offers a range of boutique and international hotels for business events of all sizes.

If every hotel and guest room in the entire city of Brisbane was booked and fit 2.5 people in it, this would accomodate 24,000 x 2.5 = 60,000 visitors during the Olympics. That is not far off what The Gabba stadium capacity is.

If accomodation supply was doubled between now and the Olympics (doubtful) this would be space for 120,000 visitors. So we can see the practical limitations on what values the estimates can take. There is also flying into Gold Coast Airport to consider as well.

Your accomodation numbers are flawed. It's too vague and doesn't go into detail. That's also based on hotel room numbers. 21,000 x 2 gets you close to your 50,000 fugue for Brisbane. Nothing special there. Add in air bnb and the like and expand out. Accomodation numbers isn't really a massive issue and there are work arounds. It's congestion in the pt and road networks having to deal with the extra people that forces people to hunt for closer access to venues along with road closures and the venue locations. Poor public transport doesn't help this and this is one of the deterring factors in accomodation location. Pricing also then becomes a part which is not much different than holiday or long weekend periods.

Gold Coast would be largely domestic flights. The bulk international carriers will be Brisbane. This conversation is getting pointless now.

Visitor accommodation capacity data was from Tourism Australia, an Australian Government agency.

This vacation market rental website says only about 4716 active Airbnb rentals in Brisbane in the last 30 days. The website scrapes data from Ads on the Airbnb website.

https://www.airdna.co/vacation-rental-data/app/au/queensland/brisbane/overview

It's a fraction of what's available capacity in hotels etc. And of course BCC is working to reduce that supply further to only people with a spare room by charging commercial rate on residential property doing vacation letting.

Skybus held a licence to access Brisbane Airport and I don't believe any compensation was payable to Airtrain. This suggests you can have as many buses to the Airport by a TMR-licenced private bus operator provided they charge full unsubsidised fare.

Everything considered, future Olympics revenue is not a significant consideration in Airtrain buyout.

Skybus. How are their non subsidised red buses going?

https://twitter.com/7NewsBrisbane/status/1588088745407848448

Sent to all outlets:

Brisbane Airtrain

5th November 2022

Good Morning,

As revealed by Brisbanetimes Airtrain in negotiation to exit contract, ending airport monopoly https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/airtrain-in-negotiation-to-exit-contract-ending-airport-monopoly-20221103-p5bv8g.html  it appears that the Queensland Government and Brisbane Airtrain are in negotiations that could see the present contract due to expire in 2036, brought forward.  There are significant changes and improvements coming to the SEQ Citytrain network in 2025 when Cross River Rail is in routine service, and would be appropriate for the State to take back the line prior to 2025 in our view.

RAIL Back On Track believes that the ultimate goal of the negotiations should be for Airtrain fares be fully integrated with the wider network fare structure. Span of operation should be expanded as well in line with the rest of the network.

Having an airport railway line operating as part of the normal network will drive patronage and help ease the traffic congestion to and from Brisbane Airport.  Smart ticketing will make it easy to ride for visitors as well.

Perth, WA, recently opened their new Airport line.  Fares on that line are the same as for the rest of the Transperth network ( https://www.transperth.wa.gov.au/JourneyPlanner/Airport-Line ) .  A good model to follow.

We should not lose sight of the fact that Brisbane Airtrain stumped up $190 million to build the Airport railway line.  They are entitled to fair compensation should the contract period be reduced.  It is matter for the State to weigh up the benefits versus cost.  We believe the benefits will outweigh the costs, better positioning the rail network for the 2025 network changes, and for the Olympics in 2032. 

Best wishes,
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

https://twitter.com/railbotforum/status/1588600358464409600

Facebook ...

Subsidy vs Sale to State

I'm wondering if it is probably cheaper to just buy Airtrain outright than pay subsidies.

The company's present value is sum of it's expected future profits adjusted down for time value of money. (DCF Method, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valuation_using_discounted_cash_flows; note there are a few variations on this)

SALE OPTION
Essentially, when the State buys out Airtrain, it is compensating Airtrain for that future stream of ~ $5.33 profits per passenger trip for the next 14 years left on the contract.

SUBSIDY OPTION
Let's say we want to get Airtrain fares down to a Zone 3 TransLink fare, and the Airtrain fare is $20.

I'm going to take the average of peak and off-peak fares to be ~ $5.80 and use that number.

The amount of subsidy is just the difference between the Airtrain fare ($20) and the TransLink Fare ($5.80).

So that is a future stream of ~ $14.20 per passenger trip paid to Airtrain by TransLink/Queensland Government for the next 14 years on the contract.

What is better from the Queensland Government perspective?

Compensating a future stream of ~ $5.33 per passenger, and getting ownership and cutting out the profit margin;**

OR

Compensating a future stream of ~ $14.20 subsidy per passenger trip, not getting ownership until 2036 and paying a margin for the company to make a profit.

EDIT - ** Buying Airtrain entails an obligation for the Queensland Government to pay Queensland Rail the train service supply cost; in a previous post I estimated that to be around ~ $14.67 per passenger trip (1). Currently the passenger is bearing this obligation through paying a private fare.

Looking forward to see what happens.



Note (1): Members may want to dispute this high supply cost figure, but Page 11 of this reference suggests that this is close to the mark ($10.50 in 2010, implies around $13.05 in 2021 when inflated using the RBA inflation calculator, so about $14-ish in 2022). AUD/USD Exchange rates were about 1:1 during this time, so no foreign exchange currency adjustment was applied.

Rail Patronage Management - effectiveness in practice, and new theoretical frames
C. Hale and P. Charles (2010)
https://www.worldtransitresearch.info/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=5848&context=research

RBA Inflation Calculator
https://www.rba.gov.au/calculator/annualDecimal.html

Agree there #Metro.  Just buy it out.   

I will also write here that I agree with SurfRail; the Airport could be placed into Zone 3 or Zone 4 (ideally Zone 3 IMO) to offset the cost of the purchase arrangement until say 2036.

This will also make a consideration for the Queensland Government more inclined to support the line with higher train frequency.

So the deal would be the Airport line moves to Zone 3, possibly Zone 4 and we get trains every 15 minutes all day every day (including weekends like Perth) until say 7 pm or 9 pm and the last train departs the Airport after the last flight for the day.

Quote from: #Metro on November 05, 2022, 08:35:20 AMI will also write here that I agree with SurfRail; the Airport could be placed into Zone 3 or Zone 4 (ideally Zone 3 IMO) to offset the cost of the purchase arrangement until say 2036.

This will also make a consideration for the Queensland Government more inclined to support the line with higher train frequency.

So the deal would be the Airport line moves to Zone 3, possibly Zone 4 and we get trains every 15 minutes all day every day (including weekends like Perth) until say 7 pm or 9 pm and the last train departs the Airport after the last flight for the day.

Trains should continue for a little while past the last flight to provide travel for workers at Airport who the finish slightly after the last flight airport. On the whole though I agree.

Quote from: RowBro on November 05, 2022, 10:37:52 AM

Quote from: #Metro on November 05, 2022, 08:35:20 AMI will also write here that I agree with SurfRail; the Airport could be placed into Zone 3 or Zone 4 (ideally Zone 3 IMO) to offset the cost of the purchase arrangement until say 2036.

This will also make a consideration for the Queensland Government more inclined to support the line with higher train frequency.

So the deal would be the Airport line moves to Zone 3, possibly Zone 4 and we get trains every 15 minutes all day every day (including weekends like Perth) until say 7 pm or 9 pm and the last train departs the Airport after the last flight for the day.

Trains should continue for a little while past the last flight to provide travel for workers at Airport who the finish slightly after the last flight airport. On the whole though I agree.

There is no last flight. BNE operates 24/7.

BNE Airport Flight Schedules (For Monday 07 November 2022)
https://www.bne.com.au/passenger/flights/arrivals-departures

Domestic
- Last departure about 21:35
- Last arrival 23:55

International
- Last departure 23:25
- Last arrival 22:40

Passenger flights generally start up again the next day from 5 am.

Officially there isn't a curfew at Brisbane Airport (yet) but BNE is probably trying to limit passenger planes outside of this window to be a good neighbour. And little demand.

Freight planes probably use the Airport during the graveyard shift. Last train in Perth is after midnight.

Perth Airport Line Timetable: https://www.transperth.wa.gov.au/timetablepdfs/Airport%20Line%2020221010.pdf

Quote from: #Metro on November 05, 2022, 12:28:04 PMBNE Airport Flight Schedules (For Monday 07 November 2022)
https://www.bne.com.au/passenger/flights/arrivals-departures

Domestic
- Last departure about 21:35
- Last arrival 23:55

International
- Last departure 23:25
- Last arrival 22:40

Passenger flights generally start up again the next day from 5 am.

Officially there isn't a curfew at Brisbane Airport (yet) but BNE is probably trying to limit passenger planes outside of this window to be a good neighbour. And little demand.

There's also a twice-weekly departure (Thursdays and Saturdays) at 11:50pm to Fiji - you won't see it on the Brisbane Airport departures page because you can only see today + 2 days into the future.

Also, pre-COVID there was a daily Cathay flight to Hong Kong at almost 1am, and a daily Emirates departure at around 2:30am.

https://twitter.com/railbotforum/status/1589263494708613122

Pre Covid, there was a Cathay Pacific flight to Hong Kong and Emirates flight to to Singapore that left at around 1am and 2am.

These will return by Xmas 2023.

Couriermail --> Brisbane Airport confirms plan to build new 'hybrid' terminal, Airtrain service under review $

QuoteBrisbane Airport has confirmed planning is underway to build a new hybrid domestic and international terminal as it prepares for a boom in passenger numbers, while the maligned Airtrain service could be about to change. ...

... Queensland Transport Minister Mark Bailey recently announced the current monopoly arrangement that Airtrain has over public transport to the airport would be reviewed as both the number of passengers travelling through the airport and those working there is set to double over the next 30 years.

Airtrain has been granted a monopoly over transport services to the two existing terminals until 2036, but Mr Bailey said "a lot has changed since the Airtrain was first established in 2001, including substantial population growth, the commissioning of the AirportLink, expansion of parking options at Brisbane Airport terminals".

"The Department of Transport and Main Roads is in discussions with the operators of the Airtrain service about the future of the service, and its integration with a modern rail network," he said. ...

It is very surprising that the mode share is 80% car 20% PT for the Airport.

When you think about it, travellers do not fly in with their car..

It is also expensive to park there.

Much of the travel demand is being captured by Uber, Taxi, and pickup by a friend/relative.

This shouldn't be.

The frequency is also woeful, Perth is much better. Even Melbourne SkyBus is every 10 minutes off-peak and runs much later.

Coming to think of it, there is no need for a SkyGate train station if the Airtrain is bought out. You can just run buses out of Toombul. Wouldn't that be nice?

Probably no need for a Brisbane Metro bus to the Airport either. BCC would probably run it on the busway then inside AirportLink into Airport drive. But...passengers from the CBD can just get the train in. We don't really need BCC to duplicate yet another train line.

Northern busway and northside passengers can then access both International and Domestic terminals with an extended Route 369 bus service, which connects to the busway at Kedron. This would be similar to how ordinary cross-town buses connect to Sydney and Melbourne Airports.

That video shows our foundation is in place for a reasonable airport system.

Just need to to be part of the main network/cost structure and run at 15min intervals for most of the day.

Quote from: #Metro on November 16, 2022, 20:06:14 PMComing to think of it, there is no need for a SkyGate train station if the Airtrain is bought out. You can just run buses out of Toombul. Wouldn't that be nice?

Probably no need for a Brisbane Metro bus to the Airport either. BCC would probably run it on the busway then inside AirportLink into Airport drive. But...passengers from the CBD can just get the train in. We don't really need BCC to duplicate yet another train line.

Northern busway and northside passengers can then access both International and Domestic terminals with an extended Route 369 bus service, which connects to the busway at Kedron. This would be similar to how ordinary cross-town buses connect to Sydney and Melbourne Airports.

You don't need a Skygate station as there is no travel demand to justify its expense. Why does this keep getting repeated mentions. The bulk of travel demand there is outside of peak hour for starters and the 24hr running is a single woolworths store that at times has poor stock levels due to the shift timings and the current nature of the big 3 store being set up for distribution eg relying on trucks for store storage.