RAIL - Back On Track Forum

Quote from: HappyTrainGuy on September 03, 2022, 19:33:17 PMBob. Triangle was like you said when it was the terminus locos used it to turn around.

As for sleeper replacement some sleepers on triangles/rarely used sidings have reached their end of life or have been damaged ie rot. They simply get replaced with concrete for longer life/less inspections and mtce costs. This is also more recent as long end leading is now banned (outside of yard ops/full track closures for mtce) meaning triangles would be used more frequently without the need for a second loco.

In terms of the manly 3rd platform it depends on what report you are looking at. But most recommendations/conclusions for the 3rd platform are removing the stabling roads/staff and passenger parking and access road with either more dead running, a second island platform to enable overnight stowing (1 dead road and 1 thru road) or additional stabling yards used towards Thornside on resumed land/triangle removal or at Birkdale. All depends on budget. You can rule out stowing at Manly as they tend to shy away from stowing trains at platforms overnight.

^ thanks HTG.

I think Birkdale is the go, with an ' extended passing loop ' duplication between Birkdale and Cleveland.

The third platform at Manly was needed 10+ years ago ...

Manly ... December 2019 .

























Photographs R Dow 21st December 2019

I think it's highly unlikely we'll see 3 platforms at Manly. Lota is preferred due to more space and straighter track. It would require a small amount of duplication, though (roughly 2km, I think).

Incidentally, I only just realised how poorly-located Thorneside station is. It seems to be position to serve what looks like a sewage treatment plant. Having it somewhere around Mond St would seem ideal for walk-up capacity, but I'm not sure there's enough space between Railway Pde and Quarry Rd to put a station.

Most reports were done 10+ years ago. I think one was even a key highlight internally and might have made it into the annual report around 2004-ish that treasury quickly nuked any possibility of that happening haha.

In regards to the station location. Thornside has changed a lot over the years. Happy to be corrected if my memory has gone astray but but from what I remember as part of rebuilding the line meant lota lost its triangle/turning y. Thornside was also used as the staging area for the extension to Cleveland. Most of the near by area was primed to be housing estates/developments however during/after the station opened and as other areas expanded sewage issues developed at the existing pumping stations. The government still owned the land and as some of it was cleared as part of staging works for the Cleveland line along with its close proximity to the wetlands it was decided that this area could up being used for a new wastewater treatment plant. After it was built I think it was in the mid to late 80's the area developed a smell and that sort of stunted growth in that area. 

Service Pattern - Express to Manly or Express to Lota?

Main Findings 

Introducing a two-tier (Local + Express) all-day service pattern to the Cleveland line will create significant time savings for passengers. With a 'do minimum' approach about 8 minutes in-vehicle time can be saved. This involves a third platform at Manly or Lota, and all day express services skipping inner-Brisbane stations. This time saving is comparable to those expected for Ipswich all-day express services. With major infrastructure works (such as straightening), further time savings can be realised.

Running trains Express to Lota does not significantly improve travel times to Cleveland vs Express to Manly as the in-vehicle time difference is about ~ 1 minute time saved. An express train stop is also expected to generate significant "pull" factor as residents drive to the station that has both better combined frequency (~10 minutes) and the chance of an express train with shorter journey times.

Method 

The general approach was is to work out the current all-stops time, then calculate what the two different express pattern times would reasonably be, then adjust for frequency of trains.
Trains could run:
- Every 15 minutes all day to Manly and 30 minutes to Cleveland (Manly option), or
- Every 15 minutes all day to Lota and 30 minutes to Cleveland (Lota option).

Please advise of any errors as it is a tedious calculation.

Current Times for All Stops Services:
Wynnum Central - 40 minutes from Central
Manly - 43 minutes from Central
Lota - 46 minutes from Central
Cleveland - 63 minutes from Central
Source: TransLink https://translink.com.au/sites/default/files/acquiadam-assets/timetables/200810-cleveland.pdf

We need to estimate how much time an all-day express pattern saves. From the timetable, an express train skipping 7 stations saves 5 minutes. This is a time saving of 42.85 seconds per station skipped. This isn't exact and can be better if the infrastructure were improved (assuming here no infra works).

New Express times:
Wynnum Central - 40 minutes from Central
Express to Manly - 35 minutes from Central (Skip 11 stations from Buranda to Wynnum Central inclusive) (Save 7.85 minutes); OR
Express to Lota - 37 minutes from Central (Skip 12 stations from Buranda to Manly, inclusive) (Save 8.57 minutes)

Cleveland with Manly Express - 55 minutes
Cleveland with Lota Express - 54 minutes

Construct timetables and adjust for frequency:

Pattern A: All Stops to Manly (4 trains/hr) and 2 trains/hour All Stops to Cleveland (maximum journey times in brackets)

Wynnum Central - 40 minutes from Central + 7.5 min av. wait = 47.5 min (55 min max)
Manly - 43 minutes from Central + 7.5 min av. wait = 50.5 min (58 min max)
Lota - 46 minutes from Central + 15 min av. wait = 61 min (76 min max)
Cleveland - 63 minutes from Central + 15 min av. wait = 78 min (93 min max)

Comment: In this pattern, all stations mentioned are outside the 30 min, 45 min and 60 min reasonable commute isochrones.

Pattern B: All Stops to Manly (4 trains/hr) + 2 Express then All Stops to Cleveland (maximum journey times in brackets)

Wynnum Central - 40 minutes from Central + 7.5 min av. wait = 47.5 min (55 min max)
Manly
- 35 minutes from Central + 5 min av. wait = 40 min (45 min max)
- 43 minutes from Central + 5 min av. wait = 48 min (53 min max)
Lota - 37 minutes from Central + 15 min av. wait = 52 min (67 min max)
Cleveland - 55 minutes from Central + 15 min av. wait = 70 min (85 min max)


Pattern C: All Stops to Lota (4 trains/hr) + 2 Express to Lota then All Stops to Cleveland (maximum journey times in brackets)

Wynnum Central - 40 minutes from Central + 7.5 min av. wait = 47.5 min (55 min max)
Manly - 43 minutes from Central + 7.5 min av. wait = 50.5 min (58 min max)
Lota
- 37 minutes from Central + 5 min av. wait = 42 min (47 min max)
- 46 minutes from Central + 5 min av. wait = 51 min (56 min max)
Cleveland - 54 minutes from Central + 15 min av. wait = 69 minutes (84 minutes max).

Park road at the moment slows a lot of the services down as it approaches due to the flat junction timings. Similar to how the Northgate inbound service has yellows from Nundah due to the Airport line crosses at Toombul. With CRR capacity into/out of park road to/from Cleveland should really be sped up. This too goes for reliability in terms of not having to force trains running a couple minutes late to skip stations to maintain its slot at Park Road. Disabled passengers can at times force this move.

Summary of Analysis
- Pattern A: 4 trains/hr all stops to Manly + 2 trains/hr continue all stops to Cleveland
- Pattern B: 4 trains/hr all stops to Manly + 2 trains/hr Express to Cleveland (Express Park Rd to Manly)
- Pattern C: 4 trains/hr all stops to Lota + 2 trains/hr Express to Cleveland (Express Park Rd to Lota)

For reference, in uncongested traffic a car can reach Manly station from Brisbane Central in 28 minutes. During peak hour this travel time essentially doubles. If we want PT to be the first choice all-day, the value proposition needs to move to close the gap between off-peak car travel and train journey times.

A car reaches Cleveland station in 30 minutes, and about 65 minutes in peak hour traffic. All the PT journey times need to also add extra station access (+ ~10 min) and exit time (+ ~10 min) as most people do not live or work next to either their origin or destination train station.

    Please advise of any errors.



Minimum journey time - just the scheduled train time of the fastest train
Average journey time - Minimum + 0.5 x train frequency OR All-stops train time + 0.5 x train frequency
Maximum journey time - scheduled train time of the slowest train + train frequency

An all day express service on the Cleveland Line would take the line average speed from 35.5 to 40.6 km/hr.

To break out of the VLSR category (average speeds lower than 50 km/hr), a Cleveland Express train needs to achieve and maintain at least 50 km/hr average speed.

That is an additional 9.4 km/hr speed needs to be found. In minutes, this is 60 min/9.4 km = 6.4 minutes.

It is too early to say whether this can or cannot be found, but higher line speeds and reforming sharply curved sections could save that extra 6.4 minutes.

37.29 km x (60 minutes/50 km) = 44.74 minutes. This would be reasonable.

Keep in mind it's 15 mins from Central to Buranda alone, so it's 48 mins Buranda to Cleveland which isn't too bad on the current train alignment (vs 38 mins currently via car).

Also keep in mind that just 8% of the lines pre-COVID boardings are from Cleveland (https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=14412.0), with not all necessarily are going to Central. Plus, over 75% of pre-COVID boardings come from Manly and inwards, whereby train is on-par, if not faster than the car to Park Rd (30 mins by train vs 35 or so by car). Once again, not everyone is going to Central. Park Road, South Bank and South Brisbane are all significant destinations and transfer points in their own right.

So whilst it's all well and good to continually theoretically call the Cleveland line "Very Low Speed Rail", it's also very important to understand that for most journeys, it's actually on-par, if not better to catch the train (taking into account usable time, car parking, costs, walking benefits etc etc etc.)

Quote from: Cazza on September 15, 2022, 14:56:46 PMKeep in mind it's 15 mins from Central to Buranda alone, so it's 48 mins Buranda to Cleveland which isn't too bad on the current train alignment (vs 38 mins currently via car).

Also keep in mind that just 8% of the lines pre-COVID boardings are from Cleveland (https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=14412.0), with not all necessarily are going to Central. Plus, over 75% of pre-COVID boardings come from Manly and inwards, whereby train is on-par, if not faster than the car to Park Rd (30 mins by train vs 35 or so by car). Once again, not everyone is going to Central. Park Road, South Bank and South Brisbane are all significant destinations and transfer points in their own right.

So whilst it's all well and good to continually theoretically call the Cleveland line "Very Low Speed Rail", it's also very important to understand that for most journeys, it's actually on-par, if not better to catch the train (taking into account usable time, car parking, costs, walking benefits etc etc etc.)

In a post-COVID world (and with some urban planning) we are likely to see higher movements between stops and Counter-CBD travel! Bit all roads/jobs lead to the CBD!

QuoteSo whilst it's all well and good to continually theoretically call the Cleveland line "Very Low Speed Rail", it's also very important to understand that for most journeys, it's actually on-par, if not better to catch the train (taking into account usable time, car parking, costs, walking benefits etc etc etc.)

It is not just relative speeds between car/rail that is important. Absolute speeds determine where that 30-min and 60 min isochrone boundary line will be drawn on a map; allowing both road and rail speeds to degrade in a race to the bottom shrinks that total area km2, which shrinks access to the city for residents and passengers.

Rail and road speeds during peak hour are in linked together in a dynamic equilibrium (simple terms - a 2-partner tango) - that is during peak hour road speeds tend to equalise with the rail network. So observing that they are "on par" at least in peak hour doesn't really mean much. We already expect that.

If we raise the speed of the rail, we should also see that as a raised speed on the road generally as that equilibrium shifts. So rather than a car and rail journeys approaching average speeds of 35.5 km/hr in peak hour, if we could get rail up to 50 km/hr, then the road would still congest, but settle at a higher speed.

If that were the case, then the valuation for how much we should be willing to spend to upgrade rail would be very different. We would have to incorporate and value the few minutes motorists would save from congestion happening at 50 km/hr rather than 35.5 km/hr. As there are a lot of motorists, that would add up to a very large number.

The problem for TransLink is that by focusing on the peak hour, the rail line is only useful for a limited 2-hour window during am and pm peaks. In an ideal case, it would be competitive all day, which would mean better utilisation of trains and revenue being generated at all hours, not just peak.

QuoteDowns–Thomson paradox
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downs%E2%80%93Thomson_paradox

The Downs–Thomson paradox (named after Anthony Downs and John Michael Thomson), also known as the Pigou–Knight–Downs paradox (after Arthur Cecil Pigou and Frank Knight), states that the equilibrium speed of car traffic on a road network is determined by the average door-to-door speed of equivalent journeys taken by public transport.

...

 When peak-hour travel equilibrium has been reached between the subway system and the major commuting roads, then the travel time required for any given trip is roughly equal on both modes."[3]

Quote from: Jonno on September 15, 2022, 16:46:02 PM

Quote from: Cazza on September 15, 2022, 14:56:46 PMKeep in mind it's 15 mins from Central to Buranda alone, so it's 48 mins Buranda to Cleveland which isn't too bad on the current train alignment (vs 38 mins currently via car).

Also keep in mind that just 8% of the lines pre-COVID boardings are from Cleveland (https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=14412.0), with not all necessarily are going to Central. Plus, over 75% of pre-COVID boardings come from Manly and inwards, whereby train is on-par, if not faster than the car to Park Rd (30 mins by train vs 35 or so by car). Once again, not everyone is going to Central. Park Road, South Bank and South Brisbane are all significant destinations and transfer points in their own right.

So whilst it's all well and good to continually theoretically call the Cleveland line "Very Low Speed Rail", it's also very important to understand that for most journeys, it's actually on-par, if not better to catch the train (taking into account usable time, car parking, costs, walking benefits etc etc etc.)

In a post-COVID world (and with some urban planning) we are likely to see higher movements between stops and Counter-CBD travel! Not all roads/jobs lead to the CBD!

Do Your Buses Get Stuck in Traffic? Traffic solutions & the Downs-Thomson Paradox

Queensland Parliament Questions on Notice

https://documents.parliament.qld.gov.au/tableOffice/questionsAnswers/2022/762-2022.pdf

Question on Notice
No. 762
Asked on 16 August 2022

DR M ROBINSON ASKED MINISTER FOR TRANSPORT AND MAIN ROADS (HON M BAILEY)

QUESTION:

With reference to Cross River Rail—
Will the Minister advise (a) the savings in travel time for trips into the City for commuters on the
Cleveland line and (b) what additional benefits the project will provide for Redland residents?

ANSWER:

I thank the Member for Oodgeroo for the question.

The Palaszczuk Government is investing at record levels to deliver better rail services in South
East Queensland (SEQ), including investment in new trains, tracks, signalling and stabling.
Cross River Rail will unlock benefits for customers across SEQ, including enabling direct access
to new destinations on the rail network and capacity for more frequent services in the future.

After Cross River Rail opens, Cleveland line customers will have a new option to change trains
at Park Road and use the new Boggo Road underground station for direct access to new stations
at Woolloongabba, Albert Street, Roma Street and a new full-time Exhibition Station.
Customers travelling to CBD locations, when factoring in reduced walk times and connection
timeframes, can save more than ten minutes on some journeys depending on their specific
destination.

Many customers currently alight at Southbank and South Brisbane stations and walk across the
Goodwill or Victoria bridges across the Brisbane River to access CBD workplaces and QUT and
with Cross River Rail will no longer have to do so.

Final journey times will be known once the timetable is established and closer to commencement
of Cross River Rail services.

The Cross River Rail project will also remove the interactions between Cleveland line trains, Gold
Coast and Beenleigh services at critical junctions like Park Road and Roma Street, improving
reliability in this section of the network.

====

When Cross River Rail opens there will be plenty of capacity for trains to and from Cleveland through Roma St, South Brisbane, Southbank, Park Road.  It will be important to ensure that there are sufficient trains to service that corridor which is why it is important to have the Cleveland line upgraded NOW, so that there is time to get it ready for 2025.  For the Government to keep spinning that there isn't any capacity to increase services on the Cleveland line until Cross River Rail is complete is treating us as fools. Works need to begin now to ensure the line is able to deliver more trains, more often, reliably, when Cross River Rail is commissioned.  Cleveland line passengers also deserve to have a frequent reliable rail service. 




You understand that lurkers?  Good? 

Stop the crap please, I and others are very tired of your bullsh%t.

https://twitter.com/ozbob13/status/1570883473489162240

Cross River Rail - Cleveland Line Duplication Required!

18 September 2022

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web-based community group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers has called for urgent track amplification and additional platforms on the Cleveland line.

The opening of Cross River Rail in 2025 will see train services reorganised across SEQ. As announced in the SEQ Rail Connect plan, the Ferny Grove Line will be paired with the Cleveland Line. The Ferny Grove line is fully duplicated.

The Cleveland line is a single track after Manly station. This restricts frequency of services and the line is notoriously unreliable (1).
In line with the 2017 study ' Park Road to Cleveland Rail Upgrade Planning Project ' (2) we call for an immediate upgrade of the section Birkdale through to Cleveland.

* The longest single track sections are Cleveland-Wellington Point, and Wellington Point- Thorneside. They are more than double the transit time of the other single track sections when the dwell times at the stations (Birkdale and Ormiston) are taken into account.

* Duplicating Birkdale-Cleveland would allow an increase in capacity to 8 trains per hour (8tph) reliably, would be relatively straightforward in terms of construction (low numbers of bridges, few sensitive areas, wide corridor), and greatly enhance reliability and flexibility by removing the terminal constraints and all single platform stations.

* From a delivery perspective, duplicating Birkdale-Cleveland would still allow full service to be run from Thorneside to the city while the duplication was occurring. Indeed, it is probably possible to run 8tph Thorneside-City during construction, which would help QR bed in the higher level of frequency, while bringing forward passenger benefits.

* A train turn-back facility could be built at Manly or Lota station to help improve reliability for additional infill services as well. This should ideally be constructed on the future duplication alignment to avoid redundant infrastructure.

Just as we don't have single lane bridges on motorways in South East Queensland, we should also not have single track sections on the Brisbane suburban rail network. The Queensland Rail network must be modernised to meet modern expectations for basic average train speed, frequency, and reliability. Our rail network is lagging behind other peer cities with lower population and lower density, such as Perth.

When Cross River Rail opens there will be plenty of capacity for trains to and from Cleveland through Roma St, South Brisbane, South Bank, Park Road.  It will be important to ensure that there are sufficient trains to service that corridor which is why it is important to have the Cleveland line upgraded NOW, so that there is time to get it ready for 2025.  For the Government to keep spinning that there isn't any capacity to increase services on the Cleveland line until Cross River Rail is complete is treating us as fools. Works need to begin now to ensure the line is able to deliver more trains, more often, reliably, when Cross River Rail is commissioned.  Cleveland line passengers also deserve to have a frequent reliable rail service.

Our recommendations are in alignment with those of the 2017 report (2).
The issue has been analysed already, and the solution is clear and unambiguous.
There is no need for further study, just a requirement to progress to design and delivery.

References:

1. On-time running profile of the Cleveland line https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?msg=262382



2. RTI 955/2020: A copy of the Park Road to Cleveland Rail Upgrade Planning Project (PDF, 65.43 MB), Stage 1 Duplication – Technical Assessment Report (July 2017).
https://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/-/media/aboutus/rti/disclog/2020/RTI-955-Released-documents.pdf?la=en

Image: Birkdale station platform in May 2020
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birkdale_railway_station,_Brisbane



Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

Facebook ...

https://twitter.com/railbotforum/status/1571210851461509121

Couriermail Quest --> Secret state report shows Cleveland line duplication key to keeping Cross River Rail on track $

QuoteThe state government's prized $5.4 billion Cross River Rail project could be shown up as unreliable and chaotic if one of the busiest passenger train lines in southeast Queensland is not upgraded.

Secret documents, obtained under right to information, show parts of the new underground network would face bottlenecks without duplication of the suburban Cleveland line.

The 2017 study, The Park Road to Cleveland Rail Upgrade Planning Project, shows the number of trains at Park Road will decline when the new network opens in 2025 as trains on the Beenleigh and Gold Coast lines are rerouted into the new river tunnel.

When the new network is built, the dual-track Ferny Grove Line will be paired with the Cleveland line, which is single track from Manly to the terminus, restricting service frequency and reliability. ...

https://twitter.com/ozbob13/status/1571232634801631233

https://twitter.com/railbotforum/status/1571233841502883840

QuoteCleveland line customers will also have a new option to change trains at Park Road and use the new Boggo Road underground station for direct access to new stations at Woolloongabba, Albert Street, Roma Street and a new full-time Exhibition Station.

Which involves exiting the old station and walking 300m to the new platforms! Likely a 10min trip!!! This guy needs to resign He has taken transport planning back to the 1970s'

QuoteWhich involves exiting the old station and walking 300m to the new platforms! Likely a 10min trip!!! This guy needs to resign He has taken transport planning back to the 1970s'

Maybe that is deliberate. If the trip was convenient, the whole train might unload and everyone rush down to the platforms to catch the Gold Coast and Beenleigh trains, which by then in the am peak will be completely crowded.

With a large time difference, Park Road might start to show load balancing issues.

I'm not super concerned about legions of Cleveland line passengers switching to ride the two stops into Albert St. There's plenty who aren't going to Central anyway... like the Beenleigh/Gold Coast passengers who are going to South Bank or South Brisbane.

The only time you see that is on outbound Ipswich/Springfield services at Darra. Inbound you don't as people usually already have seats and choose to have a seated trip to the city.

Queensland Parliament

Question on Notice
No. 961
Asked on 1 September 2022

DR M ROBINSON ASKED MINISTER FOR TRANSPORT AND MAIN ROADS (HON M BAILEY)

QUESTION:

With reference to Cross River Rail and anticipated changes to the Cleveland line—
Will the Minister advise on the critical need to duplicate the line from Manly?

ANSWER:

I thank the Member for Oodgeroo for the question.

Once operational, Cross River Rail will deliver reliability improvements for Cleveland line services
by removing the existing conflict between Cleveland and Gold Coast/Beenleigh line trains at Park
Road junction.

The Palaszczuk Government is investing at record levels to deliver better rail services in South
East Queensland (SEQ), including investment in new trains, tracks, signalling and stabling.

The government's blueprint for the SEQ passenger rail network and investment priorities are
outlined in the recently released SEQ Rail Connect. SEQ Rail Connect is underpinned by $6
billion over four years for delivery of its priorities, including $1.7 million in planning to improve
reliability on the Cleveland line. Consideration of any additional track capacity will depend on
improvements recommended by this planning exercise and priorities across the network.

====

Another ' planning exercise ' which is just more delay and inaction. 

" ... The government's blueprint for the SEQ passenger rail network and investment priorities are
outlined in the recently released SEQ Rail Connect.  ... "

Great, they were outlined in Connecting SEQ 2031 in 2011 too ( https://documents.parliament.qld.gov.au/tp/2022/5722T451-4124.pdf )
eleven fuking years ago!, what happened?

You need to do better Mr Bailey and failing Queensland Governments. 

Tired of the delays and bullsh%t.

Take that to your leader     

Sent to all outlets:

Cleveland line matters !

6th October 2022

Good Morning,

We note the Answer to Question on Notice  No. 961 that was tabled recently.
The question seeks information on the critical need to duplicate the line from Manly on the Cleveland line.
( https://documents.parliament.qld.gov.au/tableoffice/questionsanswers/2022/961-2022.pdf ).

In our view the answer is just more spin and babble.  The answer makes reference to SEQ Rail Connect:

"  ... SEQ Rail Connect is underpinned by $6  billion over four years for delivery of its priorities,
including $1.7 million in planning to improve reliability on the Cleveland line.
Consideration of any additional track capacity will depend on
improvements recommended by this planning exercise and priorities across the network. "

Well, we have been here before with this hyperbole.
Connecting SEQ 2031 in 2011 too promised much but delivered little. 
( https://documents.parliament.qld.gov.au/tp/2022/5722T451-4124.pdf )

So eleven years later it resurfaces as SEQ Rail Connect essentially.  You need to be more imaginative Government with names.

Studies on the Cleveland line have been done before, it is time to start the upgrades, not more delays and waste of OUR money!

We stand by the media release below.

Cross River Rail will not deliver the promised gains unless the rest of the Citytrain network is brought up to speed.

Please do not treat us as fools.

Best wishes,
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

Quote from: ozbob on September 18, 2022, 04:36:12 AMCross River Rail - Cleveland Line Duplication Required!

18 September 2022

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web-based community group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers has called for urgent track amplification and additional platforms on the Cleveland line.

The opening of Cross River Rail in 2025 will see train services reorganised across SEQ. As announced in the SEQ Rail Connect plan, the Ferny Grove Line will be paired with the Cleveland Line. The Ferny Grove line is fully duplicated.

The Cleveland line is a single track after Manly station. This restricts frequency of services and the line is notoriously unreliable (1).
In line with the 2017 study ' Park Road to Cleveland Rail Upgrade Planning Project ' (2) we call for an immediate upgrade of the section Birkdale through to Cleveland.

* The longest single track sections are Cleveland-Wellington Point, and Wellington Point- Thorneside. They are more than double the transit time of the other single track sections when the dwell times at the stations (Birkdale and Ormiston) are taken into account.

* Duplicating Birkdale-Cleveland would allow an increase in capacity to 8 trains per hour (8tph) reliably, would be relatively straightforward in terms of construction (low numbers of bridges, few sensitive areas, wide corridor), and greatly enhance reliability and flexibility by removing the terminal constraints and all single platform stations.

* From a delivery perspective, duplicating Birkdale-Cleveland would still allow full service to be run from Thorneside to the city while the duplication was occurring. Indeed, it is probably possible to run 8tph Thorneside-City during construction, which would help QR bed in the higher level of frequency, while bringing forward passenger benefits.

* A train turn-back facility could be built at Manly or Lota station to help improve reliability for additional infill services as well. This should ideally be constructed on the future duplication alignment to avoid redundant infrastructure.

Just as we don't have single lane bridges on motorways in South East Queensland, we should also not have single track sections on the Brisbane suburban rail network. The Queensland Rail network must be modernised to meet modern expectations for basic average train speed, frequency, and reliability. Our rail network is lagging behind other peer cities with lower population and lower density, such as Perth.

When Cross River Rail opens there will be plenty of capacity for trains to and from Cleveland through Roma St, South Brisbane, South Bank, Park Road.  It will be important to ensure that there are sufficient trains to service that corridor which is why it is important to have the Cleveland line upgraded NOW, so that there is time to get it ready for 2025.  For the Government to keep spinning that there isn't any capacity to increase services on the Cleveland line until Cross River Rail is complete is treating us as fools. Works need to begin now to ensure the line is able to deliver more trains, more often, reliably, when Cross River Rail is commissioned.  Cleveland line passengers also deserve to have a frequent reliable rail service.

Our recommendations are in alignment with those of the 2017 report (2).
The issue has been analysed already, and the solution is clear and unambiguous.
There is no need for further study, just a requirement to progress to design and delivery.

References:

1. On-time running profile of the Cleveland line https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?msg=262382



2. RTI 955/2020: A copy of the Park Road to Cleveland Rail Upgrade Planning Project (PDF, 65.43 MB), Stage 1 Duplication – Technical Assessment Report (July 2017).
https://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/-/media/aboutus/rti/disclog/2020/RTI-955-Released-documents.pdf?la=en

Image: Birkdale station platform in May 2020
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birkdale_railway_station,_Brisbane



Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

https://twitter.com/railbotforum/status/1577729783269445632

I'm somehow managing to contain my excitement...and expectations....

https://facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid02EdGdbpPvUPZPvMtSkZitftqsVwp84cDA2GjvPWdnqCMMNhfkXwe4YLfScpQcZdYdl&id=100058266692458

More car parking no doubt!!!

More car parking! Is there a prize?? 

I'm not against car parking where the condition patronage Car Park > TOD is satisfied, but let's be clear, duplication and 4 trains/hour all day is where the game is at.

By the time you drive to the station, park, and wait for the train, ride the service, you would already be at your destination if you stayed in the car.

Average speed of 35.5 km/hr. A horse can do around 40-45 km/hr, riding a horse would be faster than taking QR!

^
Looks like more park 'n' ride to me ...


My comment*

Robert Dow
I wish it was a long overdue upgrade of the line between Manly and Cleveland? But most likely more park 'n' ride, which doesn't solve anything in the longer term.
See > https://www.facebook.com/RAILBackOnTrack/posts/pfbid02zGDQ6eNuSSejr2E8MwoBqnx7pW3E3sFctQUAt6XdFCtWoZx65HPA2x8Yg9zEBqNQl

*https://www.facebook.com/joanforlytton/posts/pfbid02EdGdbpPvUPZPvMtSkZitftqsVwp84cDA2GjvPWdnqCMMNhfkXwe4YLfScpQcZdYdl?comment_id=636873231268528

Sent to all outlets:

QR Citytrain on-time running update - concerns

16th December 2022

Good Morning,

With the recent publication of the Citytrain on-time running (OTR) data for October we have now updated our all lines OTR profiles for the first ten months of 2022.

Full details can be reviewed here > https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=14984.0



Of concern to RAIL Back On Track Members is the continuing very poor OTR for the Caboolture, Cleveland, Ferny Grove and and Beenleigh lines.

Ferny Grove and Cleveland lines will be paired from 2025 with the new SEQ Rail Connect network (https://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/About-us/Corporate-information/Publications/SEQ-Rail-Connect ).  The Cleveland line is a single line from Manly to Cleveland and this leads to a loss of reliability, limits frequency and capacity, and causes flow on congestion and disruption effects to wider network.  There needs to be targeted improvements on the section Manly to Cleveland to allow for more trains to run reliably. A single railway on a suburban network in this day and age is an anachronism. It belongs in the 1880s! Political promises to deliver 15 minute trains to Cleveland are nonsense unless some future proofing is done now. We have raised our concerns with the Cleveland line at the Ministerial level.

We have also raised concerns with Queensland Rail about the lack of train turn-back facilities at Shorncliffe. Shorncliffe is at the end of the single line section from Sandgate. The planned upgrade of Shorncliffe Station will still limit the ability to turn-back trains quickly to properly support the new line pair arrangement with the Springfield line and SEQ Rail Connect in 2025 ( https://www.queenslandrail.com.au/inthecommunity/projects/shorncliffe-station-renewal-project-and-accessibility-upgrade ). Shorncliffe needs a second platform in our view to improve train turn-back.

On a happier note, the Springfield line has returned the best line OTR so far for 2022. Well done.



We raise these matters in the spirit of constructive advocacy.

It would be proper and courteous to acknowledge this correspondence and provide feedback on what the planned resolutions will be.
Please do not ignore us.

Thank you.

Best wishes,
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

====

Received a response from Community Engagement at Queensland Rail to the effect that they will respond in time with further information.

The Cleveland line needs to be much better positioned for more reliable frequent services, particularly when paired with the Ferny Grove line.

https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?msg=262451

* The longest single track sections are Cleveland-Wellington Point, and Wellington Point- Thorneside. They are more than double the transit time of the other single track sections when the dwell times at the stations (Birkdale and Ormiston) are taken into account.

* Duplicating Birkdale-Cleveland would allow an increase in capacity to 8 trains per hour (8tph) reliably, would be relatively straightforward in terms of construction (low numbers of bridges, few sensitive areas, wide corridor), and greatly enhance reliability and flexibility by removing the terminal constraints and all single platform stations.

* From a delivery perspective, duplicating Birkdale-Cleveland would still allow full service to be run from Thorneside to the city while the duplication was occurring. Indeed, it is probably possible to run 8tph Thorneside-City during construction, which would help QR bed in the higher level of frequency, while bringing forward passenger benefits.

* A train turn-back facility could be built at Manly or Lota station to help improve reliability for additional infill services as well. This should ideally be constructed on the future duplication alignment to avoid redundant infrastructure.

https://twitter.com/ozbob13/status/1604588709076090883

Assuming one wanted to do this in the absolute minimum budget, would anything be gained by adding passing loops/second platforms at Birkdale and Ormiston, i.e. would this be sufficient to fix the current reliability issues?

Or would it just be a wasted investment and nothing would be gained without full duplication Birkdale-Cleveland?

^ advice I have received from rail planners is that Birkdale - Cleveland duplication would solve most of the issues.

It also sets up the line for the final duplication down the track.

It is possible they could decide to just do a few passing loops in the usual half baked fashion, but it will still be restrictive although a little better than now.

Quote from: ozbob on December 19, 2022, 11:06:08 AM^ advice I have received from rail planners is that Birkdale - Cleveland duplication would solve most of the issues.

It also sets up the line for the final duplication down the track.

Presumably that would be much cheaper than complete duplication because it would not require bridges over Tingalpa and Lota Creeks. If that is enough to provide reliable 15 minute services I think that is what should be advocated for. We want the best bang for the buck and not insist on full duplication just so it feels complete.

 

QuotePresumably that would be much cheaper than complete duplication because it would not require bridges over Tingalpa and Lota Creeks. If that is enough to provide reliable 15 minute services I think that is what should be advocated for. We want the best bang for the buck and not insist on full duplication just so it feels complete.

Agree, although I'm curious to know how much would the bridges cost?

It just needs to be brought up to modern standards.

Even basic roads have two lanes in each direction.