RAIL - Back On Track Forum

Quote from: aldonius on June 14, 2022, 19:40:42 PMThere's nothing stopping parties from running in non-BCC council elections, they just rarely bother. And so most Qld councils are "LNP aligned 'independent'" vs "Labor aligned 'independent'".

Also, party politics on local councils is commonplace in Sydney and Melbourne, at least.

It was tried by the Libs on the Gold Coast in 2008.  It was thoroughly rejected by the electorate and for good reason.

I'm not naive about many councillors being politically aligned, but it seems to have little play compared to the party line stuff seen in Brisbane.

I have the same disdain for this wherever it exists at local level.  BCC is the most egregious example because of its size.

(The ACT is a bit different since it bears responsibilities nearly no LGA has in Australia and it also has multimember electorates which defuses some of the worst of it.)

Quote from: HappyTrainGuy on June 14, 2022, 22:17:46 PMUrgh Skygate. What is everyone's obsession with it? It's an area that does not deserve a glyder route. Nor a buz route. There's no population that way. Business hours are between peak hours. No layover facilities. Just more bs foam from people that don't know the area. Spend it on services for areas that need it.

Skygate still has some relevance....even route 590 interest from the southside is decent.
But yes....glider or buz is fairly foamy at this stage.....even with that 24/7 woolies..
Im also sus on the actual interest skygate would attract from the inner city dwellers who already have a plethora of retail in thier midst..

First focus imo should be linking skygate to Northshore(Added bonus of linking apollo rd ferry) and portside/hamilton/doomben...
The current half-ass concoction of the 304 is dissapointing to say the least.....doesnt even link decently to the racecourses let alone skygate.
Extend it to make it more useful.

Quote from: techblitz on June 14, 2022, 23:54:30 PM

Quote from: HappyTrainGuy on June 14, 2022, 22:17:46 PMUrgh Skygate. What is everyone's obsession with it? It's an area that does not deserve a glyder route. Nor a buz route. There's no population that way. Business hours are between peak hours. No layover facilities. Just more bs foam from people that don't know the area. Spend it on services for areas that need it.

Skygate still has some relevance....even route 590 interest from the southside is decent.
But yes....glider or buz is fairly foamy at this stage.....even with that 24/7 woolies..
Im also sus on the actual interest skygate would attract from the inner city dwellers who already have a plethora of retail in thier midst..

First focus imo should be linking skygate to Northshore(Added bonus of linking apollo rd ferry) and portside/hamilton/doomben...
The current half-ass concoction of the 304 is dissapointing to say the least.....doesnt even link decently to the racecourses let alone skygate.
Extend it to make it more useful.

Skygate does but not as much as some people here make it out to be. No different than some members thinking Translink bus services should go to the airport or extra train stations for dfo on the airport line which is never going to happen. The woolworths is the only shop open 24/7. There's a small Jetts gym there too if you want to include that to make it 2 businesses open 24/7. The next latest venue is the Transit Tavern (if you can even call it that) whose hours are 9am-9pm and the coffee club which is 6am/4pm. All DFO shops open at 10am and start closing from 4pm and must be closed by 6pm. The majority of the shops around Skygate are 9-4/5. And there is zero residential anywhere in the area. And as you said the majority of inner city residents already have access to other shops. People in Ascot and Nundah aren't going to drive past the local Woolworths to go to DFO woolworths. Due to the road layouts it's actually difficult for locals to get there. The big win for it is actually drivers who work at the airport or are returning from flights.

Your right there is some demand warranted but no where near enough demand to sustain a buz route let alone a gold route. The local network... actually the entire network needs to be addressed. Otherwise it's just p%ssing money away once again. Tbh I don't have much hope for the metro review doing a lot. Similar to CRR and it's lack of detail. It will be all hype and no substance. We've seen in the past how good Translink have been but we have also seen how bad they have been ie QR changing rosters in a day and 2 months for Translink to approve swapping the Caboolture and Nambour services. Yes I know Translink is working with bcc but still. The network needs to go at it with a hatchet and I can't see that happening.

Anywhere there is a full service Woolworths or Coles is a decent proxy or marker for demand.

I know first hand that people in the night drive past local shops to shop there.

We also know from the 369 experiment that there is strong demand for DFO at least from Toombul.

I'd suggest run a trial to test demand by rerouting 300 to terminate there while Toombul is closed.

We would then have objective data on which to make a decision on.

Doesn't re routing the 300 break rail connections and connections with other routes in the interchange?

Sorry but that's just bs. It might be your marker marker for demand but you have to sustain that demand. Take the 330. Inbound 5pm to last service between Bracken ridge and Chermside and it's a ghost service. Similar with Chermside-city from 6pm. The 340 is even worse and gets a reprieve once it gets to Chermside. No one lives out there. You have dead running. And I can keep going all day.

369 wasn't a success there. It ran just a few minutes before the 598. All it did was duplicate a corridor and shift patronage between services to the earlier running service. It was warranted for route removal to free up resources and cut costs.

Yes. Drive past. Not catch a bus. I could walk past Chermside west woolworths to Chermside Westfield woolworths but that doesn't mean I would. Same with the bus. Not many people are willing to stay on a bus to go to the middle of nowhere to access the same shopping centre which depending on the time is worse in terms of stock levels due to staff rostering for the 24/7 (try to find an open checkout at night haha) and their peak demand. Why? Because an extra 40 mins to go to dfo is not worth it. Know your network first. Know the geography. And know how people use the area too.

QuoteSorry but that's just bs. It might be your marker marker for demand but you have to sustain that demand. Take the 330. Inbound 5pm to last service between Bracken ridge and Chermside and it's a ghost service. Similar with Chermside-city from 6pm. The 340 is even worse and gets a reprieve once it gets to Chermside. No one lives out there. You have dead running. And I can keep going all day.

Actually its lived experience. A trial would settle the debate conclusively. Woolies and Coles do a lot of research on where to locate their stores to maximise their own patronage.

Quote369 wasn't a success there. It ran just a few minutes before the 598. All it did was duplicate a corridor and shift patronage between services to the earlier running service. It was warranted for route removal to free up resources and cut costs.

Dispute this. The 369 was quiet until it got into Toombul, then it filled up with pax for DFO. Essentially a 15-minute frequent service between Toombul and DFO.

With Toombul closed here is an opportunity to test the patronage. Just run the test.

Yes. It filled up with 598 passengers because the 598 ran a few minutes after the 369 did. When the 369 was cut the load was shifted back to the 598. The bulk of the peak 369 services were empty thanks to the poor business hours (10am opening). During this time running expenses were significantly  higher and no change in patronage which meant the 369 was cut.

No trial in Brisbane is ever really a proper trial because whatever trial route is put on duplicates an existing service where no transfer is needed to achieve the same trip, or the timetable slots it in a position where it either vacuums up passengers who would otherwise have caught the existing services or it carries air because the existing service got everybody 2 minutes earlier.

It was this sort of thing that blew my mind most when speaking to some BCC people recently.  They just don't get it.  They don't understand that to make transfers work properly, you need to actually delete the non-transfer journeys that compete with it, to the furthest extent possible.  Not only is nobody going to intentionally transfer if they don't have to, but you aren't even achieving a benefit for the network because the existing resources haven't been reallocated.

I do understand it is hard to just delete bits of the network to account for trial services like this, which is also why I disapprove of trial services in inner Brisbane in the first place.  Proper, network wide reform is needed.  Nothing less.

QuoteNot only is nobody going to intentionally transfer if they don't have to, but you aren't even achieving a benefit for the network because the existing resources haven't been reallocated.

This.

The Gold Glider has no unique coverage, misses key connections, and duplicates Cross River Rail between Albert Street and Woolloongabba. I would upgrade 300 and 320 to be every 15 minutes.

At least the BCC is actually trying...where's the World Class Heavy Rail for the World Class Sports Carnival facilities, to be built at Hamilton?  So many....World Class....opportunities!    

^ If this is them trying, I'd hate to see them doing nothing.

Oh wait.

I'm not against the Gold CityGlider, but I do want to see the routing changed. Yes we all want bus reform and have been advocating that for the last 10 years. This doesn't have to detract from that provided that some adjustment is made - for example, consideration given to adding this on to the end of the existing Blue CityGlider.

Our opposition to the Maroon WasteGlider didn't prevent it being implemented on top of routes 174,175, 203, 204, Buranda and Stones Corner Busways. TransLink just rubber stamped it, and off it went.

Quote from: City Designer on June 15, 2022, 14:26:37 PMThe Gold Glider has no unique coverage, misses key connections, and duplicates Cross River Rail between Albert Street and Woolloongabba. I would upgrade 300 and 320 to be every 15 minutes.

St Pauls Terrace definitely needs some love.  This latest brainfart of Council's doesn't do it though.

I will 100% support frequency upgrades to existing services (even if poorly designed) over tacking on something new.

Pragmatic- Do you think though that opposing it will stop it? It didn't for the MaroonGlider.

You can do whatever you like but bcc has the money to bankroll fundamental flaws. Such as they already do at the moment where the Translink contract doesn't cover the costs for bcc to run its own network. People are always happy to flog the railway costs but are happy to ignore the millions bcc drops to prop up its own network each year.

Yes HTG it is about $500 per year per ratepayer IIRC

https://twitter.com/DarrenDavis10/status/1537207077096988673

Brisbane Times---> Two options being considered for future Brisbane Metro link to airport

QuoteA business case is now under way into the second option: extending the gold CityGlider bus route between the Gabba and Hamilton Northshore, the future Olympic athletes' village, to the airport.

Great to see they are considering extending this Glider to the airport. It actually makes a lot more sense than the Metro services via the Busway as the  Gold Glider covers many more precincts for potential patronage. It can also provide a direct service to the airport for people living and staying in Hamilton via Skygate.👍

Yeah, Gold Glider makes more sense.

With the BRT, its going to exit RBWH, go into airport link and basically run express to the airport, so its not really improving coverage of HF services compared to present.
(Airtrain already pretty much runs 4tph for most of the day aside from a couple of gaps, why reinvent the wheel?)

But a Gold Glider would fix up Northshore and actually provide more coverage.

We should no longer support or propose any ideas that add to the BCC's blinkered/anti-SEQ public transport planning.  The Gliders whilst popular were the first in the ideas that ultimately undermine the role of Translink.  Translink and TMR don't help the situation but BCC needs to support them, push them, collaborate with them not undermine them.

See Airports--->https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?msg=266798

^^With the recent announcement of late night flights returning back to Brisbane provides the need for later public transport services.

But the free shuttle bus that takes 15 minutes to get to the terminal has never run after 6pm... hardly a cry for more public transport at night.

How come the BAC don't run 24h services to Skygate Woolworths and the Novotel @Verbatim9

Quote from: Gazza on January 16, 2023, 20:14:45 PMHow come the BAC don't run 24h services to Skygate Woolworths and the Novotel @Verbatim9

asked them

It's good that the Gold Glider is going through a business case to extend to the airport precinct with much support from Government, businesses and the travelling public. 

But you are the one trumpeting services?

Does BAC even run 24/7 shuttles? Or bus services from 4am-1am?? Surely a car park doesn't have a 10minute 24/7 service??

As with the current business case, Gold.Glider services will run 10-15 mins or better during peak and 30 mins or better off-peak, with the potential of running 24/7 every 30 mins or better on Friday Saturday  through to the last service on Sunday nights covering 0100-0500.

30 minutes off peak isn't very convenient

Quote from: Gazza on January 16, 2023, 21:16:20 PM30 minutes off peak isn't very convenient

I believe thats after 10.45-11pm. They have split the frequency up into 3 divisions off-peak, shoulder and peak.

But the Skygate service is 30 minute peak frequency. Come the weekend the first bus isn't until nearly 9am meanwhile airpark has a 6bph frequency. You talk about cutting the gold bus back to 30 mins at night to a frequency worse than the buz standard so there's a short fall right there if a flagship service has a service frequency worse than the next service tier. Translink and bcc can't run buses to the airport for another 12 years. Skygate businesses don't open until after morning peak hour. The bulk open at 10am. There is no true night life there despite the marketing hype. Actual pt usage there is very limited. A gold bus only opens a link from Hamilton to Skygate and doesn't address links to other areas. BAC really don't care about buses to Skygate. They run brisbanes best bus service frequency and span of hours to car parks. All the publicity they make is all pr. Even their own masterplan backs this up with rail having potential. They don't even go into detail about the bus connections because they acknowledge the 13 year airtrain contract. And that's not to mention the next 10-15 years the bulk majority of their projects involves car park and road projects.

It's the Cinderella City option for Brissy....again! 

A new high-frequency bus service – the Gold CityGlider – will roll out in Brisbane as part of the council's $4.3 billion budget.

The Gold CityGlider, co-funded with the Queensland government, will travel from Northshore Hamilton to Woolloongabba via Bowen Hills and the new Waterfront Brisbane and Queen's Wharf developments.

https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/new-gold-cityglider-bus-route-and-battery-powered-ferry-for-brisbane-20230614-p5dgfq.html

This one's for you QT/BCC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzrjwOQpAl0&ab_channel=SuperSimpleSongs-KidsSongs

Brisbanetimes --> New Gold CityGlider bus route and battery-powered ferry for Brisbane

QuoteA new high-frequency bus service – the Gold CityGlider – will roll out in Brisbane as part of the council's $4.3 billion budget.

The Gold CityGlider, co-funded with the Queensland government, will travel from Northshore Hamilton to Woolloongabba via Bowen Hills and the new Waterfront Brisbane and Queen's Wharf developments. ...

Does this mean we will actually see it enter operation this financial year? It was originally announced as part of the FY21/22 budget...

Yes, it's ambiguous.

I was under the impression it's unlikely to go into service until the end of 2024 when Bne Metro is operational.

I call it the Light Rail Line L3.  Goes to Moggill.  Sandgate Road L4 makes much more sense to go across the Bridge.

Connecting SEQ 2031 - T, M, L & B - Full Colour

Another L3
https://twitter.com/tamhus8/status/1668905795524898817